Military Medicine - Its what you make of it - My journey

[Re3iRtH]

I was only 21 years old when I graduated college and signed on the dotted line for USUHS to put the military in charge for presumably the best years of my life.

I was scared and nervous during OBC. I got yelled at a lot. I read the (most negative and cynical) comments on this board about military medicine and how its a failing system. Medical school was pretty uneventful. The best part of medical school was to travel all around the US for the last 2 years. Very little responsibility other than show up to work, learn some medicine, and take a shelf exam.

I was able to match into my dream specialty (Diagnostic Radiology). I honestly think this specialty would be quite a long shot if I were applying as a civilian.

Then started the most euphoric, impactful, and relaxing 5 years of my live as a radiology resident in Hawaii. I bought my first property (which later became a rental). I didn't save nor invest a lot of money. My net worth didn't hit 5 figures until I was in my PGY-3 year. More rentals and passive investments, and a quick 4 years later I became financially free. A lot of it was luck, but a lot of it was lots of reading, podcasts, and just being a thankful and positive person.

My first setback came when I got one of my last choices as a staff assignment - remote and desolate area, not great for a single guy. What this allowed me to do was, to take a break from the surfing, dating, partying of Hawaii and truly reflect on my life, goals, and where I wanted to be. I started actually paying attention to where my money was going (although I never budgeted and will never budget to this day).

I doubled down on reading, meditation, and exercise. Developed the best physique I every had in my life. Work at the hospital was very enjoyable. There was the typical military red tape, but it was a minor inconvenience when I really think about it.

Met some great people, lived in some sick locations, learned a couple more languages to an upper beginner level, and developed as a person, physician, and investor in a way I couldn't have imagined.

I write this partly to encourage young folks considering the military path. I can only give my own story. There is a lot of negative posts about the military on this website. Let me add that I am not the military type, I don't like to follow orders, and I pretty much say what I mean, and mean what I say. I don't hold anything back. Being a good radiologist has allowed me to get away with this - standing up for what you believe in should be a right as far as I am concerned anyway. I was not the best officer nor the best physician. However, I always stayed positive, worked with my team, and tried to enjoy myself (this wasn't very hard).

Be good to yourself, whether the military does the same or not sometimes. Things tend to fall into place. If you got this far, thank you for reading.

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[pgg]

That's great, but it's a little weird that most of your post concerns investing, travel, exercise, good/bad places you lived, and not a word about actually practicing medicine. Except a note that you got the specialty you wanted and were OK at it.

I don't know what to make of your post.

Congratulations?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Did you ever have to do a GMO tour?

 

[Fried Plantaris]

I was only 21 years old when I graduated college and signed on the dotted line for USUHS to put the military in charge for presumably the best years of my life.

I was scared and nervous during OBC. I got yelled at a lot. I read the (most negative and cynical) comments on this board about military medicine and how its a failing system. Medical school was pretty uneventful. The best part of medical school was to travel all around the US for the last 2 years. Very little responsibility other than show up to work, learn some medicine, and take a shelf exam.

I was able to match into my dream specialty (Diagnostic Radiology). I honestly think this specialty would be quite a long shot if I were applying as a civilian.

Then started the most euphoric, impactful, and relaxing 5 years of my live as a radiology resident in Hawaii. I bought my first property (which later became a rental). I didn't save nor invest a lot of money. My net worth didn't hit 5 figures until I was in my PGY-3 year. More rentals and passive investments, and a quick 4 years later I became financially free. A lot of it was luck, but a lot of it was lots of reading, podcasts, and just being a thankful and positive person.

My first setback came when I got one of my last choices as a staff assignment - remote and desolate area, not great for a single guy. What this allowed me to do was, to take a break from the surfing, dating, partying of Hawaii and truly reflect on my life, goals, and where I wanted to be. I started actually paying attention to where my money was going (although I never budgeted and will never budget to this day).

I doubled down on reading, meditation, and exercise. Developed the best physique I every had in my life. Work at the hospital was very enjoyable. There was the typical military red tape, but it was a minor inconvenience when I really think about it.

Met some great people, lived in some sick locations, learned a couple more languages to an upper beginner level, and developed as a person, physician, and investor in a way I couldn't have imagined.

I write this partly to encourage young folks considering the military path. I can only give my own story. There is a lot of negative posts about the military on this website. Let me add that I am not the military type, I don't like to follow orders, and I pretty much say what I mean, and mean what I say. I don't hold anything back. Being a good radiologist has allowed me to get away with this - standing up for what you believe in should be a right as far as I am concerned anyway. I was not the best officer nor the best physician. However, I always stayed positive, worked with my team, and tried to enjoy myself (this wasn't very hard).

Be good to yourself, whether the military does the same or not sometimes. Things tend to fall into place. If you got this far, thank you for reading.

How hard was it to match rads? Was Hawaii your first choice?
What caused you to get your last choice as staff assignment? How long were you in that spot for?


Thanks for writing this out, it will help with my personal decision to accept HPSP

 

[Re3iRtH]

That's great, but it's a little weird that most of your post concerns investing, travel, exercise, good/bad places you lived, and not a word about actually practicing medicine. Except a note that you got the specialty you wanted and were OK at it.

I don't know what to make of your post.

Congratulations?

I work hard, but my frame of mind isn't very work-centric. Too much else to see and do. Work is also fine, I had solid training in residency and passed core and board certification exams first try with no issues. Great mix of cases as a general radiologist. Volume at time can be a little low, which has its upside and downside. Anything else to add?

 

[militaryPHYS]

That's great, but it's a little weird that most of your post concerns investing, travel, exercise, good/bad places you lived, and not a word about actually practicing medicine. Except a note that you got the specialty you wanted and were OK at it.

I don't know what to make of your post.

Congratulations?

I think the OP and your comments say a lot about the bigger picture. Those who stick around and stay happy fully understand and accept the shortcomings of military medicine clinical practice that are so often talked about. It then becomes a non-stressor / non-issue for their overall outlook on life.

I rarely ever lament or complain to other people about my clinical practice. It is what it is, I can't change the hand I've been dealt. At least not quickly. If I were someone who put 100% stock in my job as a physician defining who I am as a person I might not be as happy. But I don't. I feel there is a lot more to life. That frees up a lot of mental room to improve, discuss and maximize the other areas of life that also should matter (Family, money, travel, whatever).

When the clinical shortcomings and administrative headaches become something that occupies greater than 33% of my mental frustrations (or forum posts), then I think I will know it will be time to go. Until then I am taking the military and government benefits for all that they are worth!

 

[Re3iRtH]

Did you ever have to do a GMO tour?

Army doesn't need to do a GMO tour for Radiology / Derm / Anesthesia etc. That's more of a Navy thing and to a lesser extent AF. It's been a minute so things may have changed in the last 9 years.. I am sure someone can comment

 

[Re3iRtH]

How hard was it to match rads? Was Hawaii your first choice?
What caused you to get your last choice as staff assignment? How long were you in that spot for?


Thanks for writing this out, it will help with my personal decision to accept HPSP

For me, wasn't very hard. I was maybe a 55th percentile student in medical school. I think enthusiasm and interest in the field matters more than grades and USMLE scores.

I've always said, only the last thing you did matters when it comes to medicine. I think there were 16 Army slots (prob 12 med stud) when I applied for rads. I would imagine if there is a 2:1 applicant:spot ratio, you need to be at the top of your game.

Hawaii and Madigan were equally desirable and first for me, although technically I think I ranked Madigan 1 and Tripler 2.

 

[pgg]

Anything else to add?

Sure.

My time in the Navy has also been greatly enriched by all of the non-medical things I've sought out and been able to do. I've flown in fighter jets, gone camping and done all kinds of outdoorsy stuff with the Marines, seen deserts and jungles and oceans. I'm part of the Navy's rifle and pistol team and have the privilege of traveling and competing with them. There are a lot of great things about serving.

It just seemed odd to me that a thread with a title like "military medicine is what you make of it" didn't really say anything about medicine. It would have fit in just as well in an infantry forum with the title "artillery battalions are what you make of them". My point is that by posting this here you clearly intended it to be a defense or validation of milmed, but then you didn't actually present anything to that end.


I received excellent FTIS residency training, and was able to get FTOS fellowship training at a world class institution. Despite my MTF's closure of services related to my subspecialty, I've been able to maintain an adequate case load through moonlighting and an agreement with a nearby VA, thanks to an engaged and supportive command. I work in a department and directorate with great leadership and excellent colleagues. I've sought out and have been allowed to do a handful of hospital collateral duties that are interesting and rewarding to me. I am happier and more satisfied than many AD physicians because these things are positive reflections of the Medical Corps.

That you got lucky and profited from a house you bought in Hawaii is nice but utterly coincidental and irrelevant to any pro/con discussion of the military, the practice of medicine, or any intersection between the two. Hence my sort of nonplussed "congratulations?" response.

 

[militaryPHYS]

@pgg I definitely hear what you’re saying but to say it is irrelevant I think misses the mark. That’s like saying being house poor practicing in San Francisco is irrelevant from the physician’s choice to practice in San Francisco.

Would the OP have had the opportunity to live and work in Hawaii if he hadn’t joined the medical corps? Would I have had the opportunity to practice in Japan and already traveled to 6 different countries if it weren’t for the medical corps?

If you think the only thing that defines the medical corps is the clinical practice then we are missing a large portion of what “life” entails in the medical corps. The clinical practice is one piece of the puzzle.

 

[d2305]

Oh, I thought you were Navy. You must be going to Korea rather than Japan.

 

[pgg]

Would the OP have had the opportunity to live and work in Hawaii if he hadn’t joined the medical corps?

Of course? Hawaii is a US state. Any doctor can get a license, move there and work.

Seems strange to think there's a reason he couldn't have.

Would I have had the opportunity to practice in Japan and already traveled to 6 different countries if it weren’t for the medical corps?

If travel was important to you, you could've visited a lot more than 6 countries as a civilian practicing orthopedic surgeon.

World travel may be an otherwise unattainable thing for the E3 who joined to see the world, but for us, the limited number of leave days per year compared to typical vacation time on the outside is a constraint.

Same goes for practice abroad. Far more opportunities for humanitarian work as a civilian.

If you think the only thing that defines the medical corps is the clinical practice then we are missing a large portion of what “life” entails in the medical corps. The clinical practice is one piece of the puzzle.

Yes, it's a piece of the puzzle, by far the biggest piece of the puzzle, and it was barely mentioned in the OP. And that was my point.

Anyway, I think I've beat that point into the ground. I'll let it go now.

 

[militaryPHYS]

A civilian orthopedic surgeon could not do what I have done (in terms of travel and time off) within the first 2 years after residency. 4 or 5 years out? Maybe.

But they have a better clinical mix of patients and make a ton more (albeit with a lower net worth) at this stage of career.

Pick your poison

 

[CABG patch]

I think I would be shocked to read a thread about a radiologist who didn’t like their lifestyle. I know this is a single perspective but you read about a lot of bad experiences here because there’s a lot of bad experiences in military medicine. Some of it is systemic to medicine in general, too much admin, non-physicians driving pointless metrics etc. However, many of the problems addressed are very real to many military doctors. There is a systemic lack of respect for your skill set. Everyone in the line seems to understand that Seals, rangers and Green Berets do different jobs and keep them in their lanes and areas of responsibility but those same commanders view you as doctor NOS.

I’m currently deployed and my sub-specialty trained surgeon is seeing clinic and having to see behavioral health issues..... I can’t say that’s a good situation for his skill set or the patient. I’m happy the OP got what they wanted but as stated before, most of the positives people list have nothing to do with clinical practice. I’ve had amazing experiences as well that I couldn’t have done as a civilian, but I can’t say they made me a better doctor. You only get that by seeing volume and complexity, both of which are lacking in almost every field in milmed and very little is being done to address this failing.

 

[militaryPHYS]

I think I would be shocked to read a thread about a radiologist who didn’t like their lifestyle. I know this is a single perspective but you read about a lot of bad experiences here because there’s a lot of bad experiences in military medicine. Some of it is systemic to medicine in general, too much admin, non-physicians driving pointless metrics etc. However, many of the problems addressed are very real to many military doctors. There is a systemic lack of respect for your skill set. Everyone in the line seems to understand that Seals, rangers and Green Berets do different jobs and keep them in their lanes and areas of responsibility but those same commanders view you as doctor NOS.

I’m currently deployed and my sub-specialty trained surgeon is seeing clinic and having to see behavioral health issues..... I can’t say that’s a good situation for his skill set or the patient. I’m happy the OP got what they wanted but as stated before, most of the positives people list have nothing to do with clinical practice. I’ve had amazing experiences as well that I couldn’t have done as a civilian, but I can’t say they made me a better doctor. You only get that by seeing volume and complexity, both of which are lacking in almost every field in milmed and very little is being done to address this failing.

I don't disagree. Everything you mentioned here is a well known pitfall of MilMed. Like I said...Pick your poison.

Military Medicine is an option. Just like academic center vs. small private is an option. Rural vs. urban practice is an option. Locums vs. full-time is an option.

All of these make you decide what trade off you want to have between Income, Lifestyle and Clinical Practice. Every single person prioritizes these differently.

 

[HighPriest]

Not a huge deal here. Appreciate the OP's input. I agree that the title and the body of the statement don't necessarily correlate, but his input is still valid and has some insight into what he felt were the highlights of his military time.

I mean, the title and content don't always correlate. Look at The Catcher in the Rye. The title is "The Catcher in the Rye," but the story is about boring nonsense.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Sure.

My time in the Navy has also been greatly enriched by all of the non-medical things I've sought out and been able to do. I've flown in fighter jets, gone camping and done all kinds of outdoorsy stuff with the Marines, seen deserts and jungles and oceans. I'm part of the Navy's rifle and pistol team and have the privilege of traveling and competing with them. There are a lot of great things about serving.

It just seemed odd to me that a thread with a title like "military medicine is what you make of it" didn't really say anything about medicine. It would have fit in just as well in an infantry forum with the title "artillery battalions are what you make of them". My point is that by posting this here you clearly intended it to be a defense or validation of milmed, but then you didn't actually present anything to that end.


I received excellent FTIS residency training, and was able to get FTOS fellowship training at a world class institution. Despite my MTF's closure of services related to my subspecialty, I've been able to maintain an adequate case load through moonlighting and an agreement with a nearby VA, thanks to an engaged and supportive command. I work in a department and directorate with great leadership and excellent colleagues. I've sought out and have been allowed to do a handful of hospital collateral duties that are interesting and rewarding to me. I am happier and more satisfied than many AD physicians because these things are positive reflections of the Medical Corps.

That you got lucky and profited from a house you bought in Hawaii is nice but utterly coincidental and irrelevant to any pro/con discussion of the military, the practice of medicine, or any intersection between the two. Hence my sort of nonplussed "congratulations?" response.

Your post was the same as mine, my friend. It was largely about your fun experiences as a military physician. So was mine. You said you got great training in your specialty? Well, I said the same thing. Not seeing some dramatic thing you talked about that I left out.

You think I only did 1 real estate deal to become financially free (passive income covers more than my living expenses)? Interesting assumption. That takes 20 - 50 deals for most if we are being realistic. Also, it's not about luck at all. It's about learning the game, doing deals, making mistakes, having mentors, and getting out of your comfort zone. Not talking about the "buy one house per duty station" that every Officer in the military does. They all do that, but they still have to work for money

I would add that going the military route (and therefore not having debt) is very relevant to a young person trying to pick military vs. civilian. You can start investing (in real estate for example) way earlier than the average civilian doc with med school debt. Time value of money. Nothing to do with luck. All part of the plan.

 

[Re3iRtH]

@pgg I definitely hear what you’re saying but to say it is irrelevant I think misses the mark. That’s like saying being house poor practicing in San Francisco is irrelevant from the physician’s choice to practice in San Francisco.

Would the OP have had the opportunity to live and work in Hawaii if he hadn’t joined the medical corps? Would I have had the opportunity to practice in Japan and already traveled to 6 different countries if it weren’t for the medical corps?

If you think the only thing that defines the medical corps is the clinical practice then we are missing a large portion of what “life” entails in the medical corps. The clinical practice is one piece of the puzzle.

Well said.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Of course? Hawaii is a US state. Any doctor can get a license, move there and work.

Seems strange to think there's a reason he couldn't have.

Umm. Not exactly. Let's examine this.

1. There is no way to do a 5 year residency in Hawaii without being in the service. The only residency program is military.

2. Ok, get a HI license. Now apply to one of the (quite political) groups on island. You think you'll get a job? I'll give you a 30% chance at being hired. It's not so easy.

 

[j4pac]

Umm. Not exactly. Let's examine this.

1. There is no way to do a 5 year residency in Hawaii without being in the service. The only residency program is military.

2. Ok, get a HI license. Now apply to one of the (quite political) groups on island. You think you'll get a job? I'll give you a 30% chance at being hired. It's not so easy.

I agree to an extent. Getting a job in Hawaii is tough. I also believe that the vacation policy is fair...you don’t always get more days as a civilian, it is often less, especially starting off. And the military affords you to move to different areas for extended periods of time. That opportunity is rarely afforded or obtained in the civilian sector.

 

[armytrainingsir]

One thing all disgruntled military physicians have in common is they all sure seem to hate happy military physicians.

I swear, they can be more catty than a bunch of high school girls trying out for cheerleader.

 

[Apollyon]

1. There is no way to do a 5 year residency in Hawaii without being in the service. The only residency program is military.

Huh? The University of Hawai'i sponsors general surgery and ortho. UH, Kaiser, and some group on the big island all sponsor civilian programs (of less than 5 years). So, both of your statements are inaccurate.

 

[Perrotfish]

Of course? Hawaii is a US state. Any doctor can get a license, move there and work

Seems strange to think there's a reason he couldn't have.

I will disagree with this. Not all areas are equally easy to work in. DC, San Diego, and Hawaii are all very difficult places to train in or to find employment. I suppose anyone could go to any of those places and open their own shop but getting a job that already exists is not easy. The chance to work in those areas with a less than stellar resume is one of more legitimate advantages of the Navy. Its also one of the only ways to work in Asia or Europe as a US physician.

Probably not a good reason to join, and plenty of people go to Portsmouth or Lejeune to train, but its not nothing

 

[Re3iRtH]

One thing all disgruntled military physicians have in common is they all sure seem to hate happy military physicians.

I swear, they can be more catty than a bunch of high school girls trying out for cheerleader.

Haha, ain't it the truth.

 

[absolutdokta]

2. Ok, get a HI license. Now apply to one of the (quite political) groups on island. You think you'll get a job? I'll give you a 30% chance at being hired. It's not so easy.

Damn. I got less than two years left in service and after vacationing in Hawaii (third time in my life, first time to the big island) I decided that’s where I really wanted to settle with the fam.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Huh? The University of Hawai'i sponsors general surgery and ortho. UH, Kaiser, and some group on the big island all sponsor civilian programs (of less than 5 years). So, both of your statements are inaccurate.

Talking about Radiology.

Doing Ortho or Gen Surg (with the work schedule that comes with it) in Hawaii would be torture. Rather do those in Northern Minnesota or Alaska knowing I'm not missing much.

The idea of doing residency in Hawaii is having the time and rest to enjoy it.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Damn. I got less than two years left in service and after vacationing in Hawaii (third time in my life, first time to the big island) I decided that’s where I really wanted to settle with the fam.

Did you visit the green sand beach at the Southern point of Big Island? One of the more unique experiences on BI and probably my favorite beach on all the islands.

 

[absolutdokta]

Did you visit the green sand beach at the Southern point of Big Island? One of the more unique experiences on BI and probably my favorite beach on all the islands.

Hell yeah!!! Right after I jumped off south point (seven times!). I fell in love with that place

I posted a pic of me jumping off over in the lounge. Such a rush

 

[Gastrapathy]

It is a fascinating human tendency to attribute good fortune to one’s own actions.

 

[militaryPHYS]

True. Similar to how easy it is to blame a system for one's own misfortunes.

 

[militaryPHYS]

Damn. I got less than two years left in service and after vacationing in Hawaii (third time in my life, first time to the big island) I decided that’s where I really wanted to settle with the fam.

Wife and I got to spend 6+ weeks free of charge in Hawaii for 4th year rotations while at USUHS. I love that place. Although, I'm not sure I could subscribe to the permanent life on a small island in the pacific. 2 or 3 year tour? Hell yeah.

 

[d2305]

If one gets off the beaten path, Hawaii is similar to the 3rd world.

 

[absolutdokta]

If one gets off the beaten path, Hawaii is similar to the 3rd world.

Having spent a number of years living in a 3rd world country the same can be said of many CONUS locations. Kind of a moot point

 

[armytrainingsir]

Damn. I got less than two years left in service and after vacationing in Hawaii (third time in my life, first time to the big island) I decided that’s where I really wanted to settle with the fam.

Look at federal contact jobs, VA etc. Buddy retired from job at TAMC on a Friday, took civilian contract position, moved once office over on the following Monday.

 

[absolutdokta]

Look at federal contact jobs, VA etc. Buddy retired from job at TAMC on a Friday, took civilian contract position, moved once office over on the following Monday.

How well do those jobs pay on average (I’m fam med), not just in regards to a job in Hawaii. I find the usajobs website gives me migraines when trying to sort through it to find my specialty (their search filters need some work) and then try and find anything useful regarding pay.

 

[Re3iRtH]

Hell yeah!!! Right after I jumped off south point (seven times!). I fell in love with that place

I posted a pic of me jumping off over in the lounge. Such a rush

Sweet! Check out the Northern coast of Kauai. It's the only place I know you can kayak a beautifully eerie freshwater river.. then whenever you want.. boom.. kayak right into the ocean !
Na Pali Coast on Kauai also easily has Top 10 craziest views on a hike in the world, probably best in Hawaii..

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I write this partly to encourage young folks considering the military path. I can only give my own story. There is a lot of negative posts about the military on this website.

Important post for the noobs considering a military medical career, and the operative phrase is quoted above.

There is a radiologist who occasionally posts on this forum (and may chime in) who is about your year group. He trained in San Antonio, did a diagnostic breast fellowship, and came within a hair's breadth of being assigned to a Brigade Surgeon slot. He separated as soon as his ADSO was complete and has a decidedly more negative view of his military service.

Noobs should know all the possibilities that come with a military medical stint. Certainly personal circumstances, "The Wheel of Fortuna", attitude, and many other things help to determine how one views his or her military medical experience. In the end though, so much of this is fundamentally unknowable when someone signs on the dotted line in his or her early 20s. As the expression goes, "You pays your money, and you takes your chances."

After the choice is made, I ask only two things from the military physicians with whom I work--no gloating/haughtiness if things break your way, and no whining if they don't.

 

[militaryPHYS]

After the choice is made, I ask only two things from the military physicians with whom I work--no gloating/haughtiness if things break your way, and no whining if they don't.

Well said. This is very applicable to the actual work environment.

Public Forums are an interesting beast. I think we all realize now that Tips/Tricks and similarly Pitfalls/Disappointments are very different for every person and every different specialty in every different service. People quickly take things personally even if their situation is not comparable in any way (different service, MTF, specialty). I am at fault for this too. The information ends up being labeled as gloating or whining in a public forum like this. I've been thinking of ways to improve this.

I see two options, more if you all have ideas:
#1 -- Nothing changes and if we have personal goals to provide certain information to the masses we accomplish it external to SDN.
#2 -- We could request sub forums for each SPECIALTY. Residents/Staff of each specialty could create Threads related to their specific story as they felt applicable to helping others along the same pathway. Other members of same specialty could then provide compare/contrast between services, treatment facilities, training sites, sub-specialties etc.

The general forum with question/answer situation would stay the same. But now we'd at least be building a high-yield area for those seeking it.

Trouble is that our numbers and diversity overall are very low. But it could build, and if PREMEDs see the value in it they may be encouraged to stay active during their time in school/residency/staff and add to the pool of information being provided.

I know I wish SDN had a better high-yield readability system when I was looking for information in 2007. Not much has changed and is reliant on searching for keywords which may link you to threads with 1k responses to sort through.

Let me know what you think. I'm done with boards now. And yes, I realize I spend way to much time thinking about this stuff.

 

[HighPriest]

I think you'd have subspecialty forums with basically no one in them. You'd have a bunch of general milmed/HPSP questions that really aren't subspecialty-related and unless there was a general forum students would be confused as to where to ask them. If they asked them in a subspecialty forum, answers would vary considerably between forums, and that would be confusing as students search through these. And, ultimately, most students have no idea what specialty they want to do. Most posts are general questions.

I agree that it would be nice to have a somewhat more consolidated forum, but I think splitting it by specialty doesn't accomplish much. Just my 2 cents.

On the other side of those coins, I don't really have a better answer aside from stickies, which we have.

forums are intrinsically poor research platforms because recommendations vary based upon poster, year, etc. They really are designed to have a student come in, ask a question, and get answers. Not sure how to improve upon that without eliminating the essence of the forum and making it an information repository in which one or a few people decide what stays and what goes.

 

[militaryPHYS]

And, ultimately, most students have no idea what specialty they want to do. Most posts are general questions.

Very True. I was also thinking sub-forums separated by SERVICE. Might help PREMEDS more but less help for those ALREADY IN.

To that end: There is a big difference between information we provide to PREMEDS and information we provide to each other (ALREADY IN). I still think the two should be separated somehow.

 

[HighPriest]

Separate forums for separate services, along with a general free for all, might actually make sense. There are definitely differences between branches.

 

[ArmyTiger]

Until we all go purple in October, of course.

 

[militaryPHYS]

I guess I need to learn how to ride a horse if I will be expected medical support for the Cavalry

 

[Mace1370]

I just don't think we have a large enough user base to justify subforums. You could maybe add tags to posts (or "flair" if you are one of the cool kids) for the different services, but really the same function is served by throwing the service name in the thread title.

 

[militaryPHYS]

Alas...Dead in the water. Just like most of my other PI projects

 

[armytrainingsir]

How well do those jobs pay on average (I’m fam med), not just in regards to a job in Hawaii. I find the usajobs website gives me migraines when trying to sort through it to find my specialty (their search filters need some work) and then try and find anything useful regarding pay.

The one I looked at was 50th percentile of MGMA reported income.

 

[vcentwin]

Our brave grunts are fighing Jihadis and communists for that awesome oil money, the least I can do is make sure they can one day come home in on piece (partial sarcasm, partial honesty)

 

[Badgermedic]

I was only 21 years old when I graduated college and signed on the dotted line for USUHS to put the military in charge for presumably the best years of my life.

I was scared and nervous during OBC. I got yelled at a lot. I read the (most negative and cynical) comments on this board about military medicine and how its a failing system. Medical school was pretty uneventful. The best part of medical school was to travel all around the US for the last 2 years. Very little responsibility other than show up to work, learn some medicine, and take a shelf exam.

I was able to match into my dream specialty (Diagnostic Radiology). I honestly think this specialty would be quite a long shot if I were applying as a civilian.

Then started the most euphoric, impactful, and relaxing 5 years of my live as a radiology resident in Hawaii. I bought my first property (which later became a rental). I didn't save nor invest a lot of money. My net worth didn't hit 5 figures until I was in my PGY-3 year. More rentals and passive investments, and a quick 4 years later I became financially free. A lot of it was luck, but a lot of it was lots of reading, podcasts, and just being a thankful and positive person.

My first setback came when I got one of my last choices as a staff assignment - remote and desolate area, not great for a single guy. What this allowed me to do was, to take a break from the surfing, dating, partying of Hawaii and truly reflect on my life, goals, and where I wanted to be. I started actually paying attention to where my money was going (although I never budgeted and will never budget to this day).

I doubled down on reading, meditation, and exercise. Developed the best physique I every had in my life. Work at the hospital was very enjoyable. There was the typical military red tape, but it was a minor inconvenience when I really think about it.

Met some great people, lived in some sick locations, learned a couple more languages to an upper beginner level, and developed as a person, physician, and investor in a way I couldn't have imagined.

I write this partly to encourage young folks considering the military path. I can only give my own story. There is a lot of negative posts about the military on this website. Let me add that I am not the military type, I don't like to follow orders, and I pretty much say what I mean, and mean what I say. I don't hold anything back. Being a good radiologist has allowed me to get away with this - standing up for what you believe in should be a right as far as I am concerned anyway. I was not the best officer nor the best physician. However, I always stayed positive, worked with my team, and tried to enjoy myself (this wasn't very hard).

Be good to yourself, whether the military does the same or not sometimes. Things tend to fall into place. If you got this far, thank you for reading.

Do you think the ability to avoid the big military's ****-**** games is based on the virtue of being a physician or is it just rank and unit based?

 

[Re3iRtH]

Do you think the ability to avoid the big military's ****-**** games is based on the virtue of being a physician or is it just rank and unit based?

Being a sharp physician I think helps. Playing the game also helps I heard, although I was always bad at this. Higher rank allows you potentially to pick your assignments.

I think being happy every day is more important than sucking up to someone to get some potential kickback later. The latter was way more common in my experience

 

[absolutdokta]

Do you think the ability to avoid the big military's ****-**** games is based on the virtue of being a physician or is it just rank and unit based?

I can’t speak to things in terms of kissing butt to get certain assignments, but as far as avoiding the games based on unit and being a physician I have some experience.

I’ve learned that there are times to be assertive so you don’t get used and abused and there are times to just roll with the punches. If your commander is hard-headed, fast-charging, and unmovable there’s a good chance you will get used and abused because anything that has anything to do with the medical section MUST have the doc there and participating (typically what they think). On the other hand, commanders that are not as uptight, see the virtue of your roll as the unit doc, are comfortable with the trust you place in your medics tend to be a little more hands off.

A few cases in point. Last year we had a battalion range week off-site where they were adamant that I went along with our medics for the aid station. I pushed back a little but ultimately went along with them. It was not our entire battalion so we still had soldiers back in garrison that would then be out of any care for the week. When I know my time will be wasted I try to take advantage and provide some training for my medics, but given they were covering ranges all week there was no time for this. One person came to sick call with a stuffy nose that week and I otherwise hung out in my bunk reading and watching movies. Ranges don’t need a surgeon present. CLS qualified soldiers and 68W are more than capable of caring for field injuries that, if serious enough, will be medevac’ed out and bypass any aid station care. So, is the surgeon needed for something like this? No. Did they understand and accept why? No.

Yearly we have a “unit week” where there are different challenges with the culminating one being a 12 mile ruck interspersed with various obstacles. Our section usually has two medics roam around in a TMP to the various stations looking for soldiers that might require some medical attention or help. Is this work that a 68W is qualified for? Absolutely. Did the S3 and XO try and make a big deal about me riding in along all day? Absolutely. After discussion regarding their objective, keeping our clinical operations going (which is where I prefer to be when I can) and that the unit surgeon is not needed for such an assignment they relented.

You just have to be reasonable, explain where your skill set is best used, and then just know that sometimes it won’t matter what you say they won’t care and your time may be wasted. Once you accept that and take advantage of those times (studying/reading, accomplishing personal goals that you can based on where you are, finishing your favorite show that you downloaded before heading out, etc.) life is better. I used to fume and be in such a bad mood when it would happen but now when they are stubborn about things and force my hand Ive learned to roll with it and take advantage the best I can. But be assertive, try not to let your skills be put to waste. Train up your medics well so you can confidently say “no, my medics can cover this....I assure you.”