Military Reserve While in Residency

[rh]

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Is anyone out there in the reserve or know someone in the reserve? They pay $1100 a month while in residency and $50000 in loan repaymeny on completion of residency over three years. You owe 2 months for every month that they give you a stipend. There are obvious down sides like being called up to active duty especially if you were in a private practice. You are commited to the Military for a few years, but you also end up with $80000+ for not a lot of effort plus what you earn durning your weekend a month and 2 weeks per year over 6 years or so. Anyone with any constructive thoughts for or against?

 

[Airborne]

rh:

Something to think about....

We have this amazing Vascular surgeon on faculty who is evidently in the reserves and got called up for the Iraq war. He was initially called to go to Ft Sam Houston in Texas, and (at least according to the OR gossip) was assigned to do physicals - Word is he was a bit upset with this assignment and indicated his qualifications - and was reassigned to a forward hospital in Saudi. He has been gone for about 6 months now, and noone knows when he'll be back.

While the money seems tempting, make sure you think of all the ramifications - not only in the case of any future conflicts, but also what the 1 weekend a month/2 weeks per year will have on your personal time in the future, once you're an attending.

Having spent 4 years active duty (albeit as an enlisted) - I can say that it can take quite a toll on your family.

Regards,

Airborne

 

[Docgeorge]

Rh, really think about what airborn said. Such stories are not fiction, rather the truth. The same thing happend to an awsome pediatric surgeon, but he got sent to afganistan.

Those weekends that you spend at the unit can be much better used elsewhere, doing things that you want to do. Most of the time those weakends are boring beyond belief. The ammont of man hours wasted is incredable. I'll give you an example: One month you inventory the mobile OR(which contrary to it's name never goes anywhere). Mind you, you have to unpack it, inventory it and put it all back. The next moth, you inventory and clean your TA 50 (your personal gear, never mind that it almosts never gets used) the following month you Inventoy the OR agian. You see where this is going?

Oh yeah, the pedicatic surg gave me one bit of advice the last time I saw him. He said "get the hell out and dont look back".

 

[triathlete411]

I think there are definitely pros and cons to serving in the reserves. Would someone be able to elaborate how it would work to be in the military reserves and do a residency? Are they incompatible? Would they pull you out of your residency if they needed you to serve in Afghanistan, etc.?

I am starting my surgery residency in June and don't know how my program would handle me being gone for one weekend/month and two weeks/year.

I just wish there were a way to serve my country without having to suffer through what sounds like a lot of BS.

 

[Docgeorge]

The Peds surgeon had started his priviate practice before he started having to pay back time, he did not have to work during residency or fellowship. Unfortunately it has been my experience that in the reserves, people who are borderline *****s get put into positions of power, and with *****s and people who have egos to inflate comes chicken ****.

Our last CO was a joke. He was relived and tried and convicted for embesselment, runnig a pyramid scheme, and misapporiation of funds. Not to mention he was a royal pain in the ass and did'nt know the difference between a surgeon and a hole in the wall.

Unfortunatley in my reserve unit there has been a history of non physicians getting command, and letting it go to their heads. I cannot personaly attest to what active duty is like, but all the reserveist I met say active duty is not as F'ed up. If you want to serve your country volunteer at a free clinic or go regular army, IMHO reserves will drive any sane person bonkers.

 

[BenHoganFan]

Originally posted by triathlete411
I think there are definitely pros and cons to serving in the reserves. Would someone be able to elaborate how it would work to be in the military reserves and do a residency? Are they incompatible? Would they pull you out of your residency if they needed you to serve in Afghanistan, etc.?

I am starting my surgery residency in June and don't know how my program would handle me being gone for one weekend/month and two weeks/year.

I just wish there were a way to serve my country without having to suffer through what sounds like a lot of BS.

Being a surgeon, you could be attached to a platform operating overseas or you can get something as benign as backfilling active duty staff who have been deployed. Your orders would be for one year unless the command feels that they can deactivate you. At my command, we ended up with 8 reservists to backfill deployed staff.
-All of them (except of one NPs that was initially used as a nurse) have enjoyed their time. There are some that even want to continue on active duty.

I have never heard of anyone recalled or activated from residency but once you've completed your program, you're game. I have heard of some reservists requesting some nice places to do their 2 week drills in Hawaii, Puerto Rico and other 'desireable' locations.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

I think that the question is "How do residency programs operate when you have to commit 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks per year?" Is this part doable, aside from the deployment issue?

 

[fourthyear]

jbj - residency programs HAVE to let you have time off to do your military obligation - just like any other employer has to. However, they can count these days as your "day's off" for the month now required by the 80-hour-work-week rules.(at least that is my understanding). As an earlier poster said, you might like to use a free weekend to do many other things besides work.

To the original poster: I say, if you always thought of being in the military and really would enjoy the opportunity to serve our country if called to do so, go for it. If you're doing it just for the money, it's probably not the right choice for you.

 

[augmel]

I don't know about residency but a classmate of mine got pulled into active duty as an MSII. If they'll pull you out of med school I don't know why they wouldn't pull you out of residency.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by rh
Is anyone out there in the reserve or know someone in the reserve? They pay $1100 a month while in residency and $50000 in loan repaymeny on completion of residency over three years. You owe 2 months for every month that they give you a stipend. There are obvious down sides like being called up to active duty especially if you were in a private practice. You are commited to the Military for a few years, but you also end up with $80000+ for not a lot of effort plus what you earn durning your weekend a month and 2 weeks per year over 6 years or so. Anyone with any constructive thoughts for or against?

RH,

Read my reply at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62983&highlight=navy+fap

In the FAP, there is no drilling. You're in the inactive ready reserves while training in your residency of choice. After finishing residency, then you go to OIS and then active duty. You get $1100 a month plus ~$24,000 cash bonus each year to pay back loans or live more comfortably.

 

[OwlMyste]

Originally posted by rh
Is anyone out there in the reserve or know someone in the reserve? They pay $1100 a month while in residency and $50000 in loan repaymeny on completion of residency over three years. You owe 2 months for every month that they give you a stipend. There are obvious down sides like being called up to active duty especially if you were in a private practice. You are commited to the Military for a few years, but you also end up with $80000+ for not a lot of effort plus what you earn durning your weekend a month and 2 weeks per year over 6 years or so. Anyone with any constructive thoughts for or against?

I say GO FOR IT!😎 Hell, if it ends up making you a hell of alot less in debt than your un-military med school friends, then theres nothing to lose....sure theres the risk of getting called up to active duty, but thats worth it. theres risks in everything we do, and if we spent our time worrying about what would go wrong in them, then we would never get anything done. Hell, I would have joined the military or military reserve myself had it not been for my JME (controlled with meds, mind you) that disqualified me...They're just saying don't do it because they are jealous that you will be in alot less debt, if ANY debt, when you finish med school than they will be once they finish med school.

 

[Future GI Guy]

OwlMyste,

This is exactly why you're not welcome to post in these forums.

You have NO idea what it means to have debt, to pay off debt, to be called to active duty away from a 300K job (active duty doesn't pay nearly that much), to have a family, to have patients dependent on you performing their surgeries or seeing them in follow up clinic.

If you joined the military, you wouldn't be an officer, like we would, so the fact that you WOULD join the military if you weren't medically inelligible doesn't mean anything to these guys.

Put simply, these are NOT issues that a 19 year old high school senior should chime in on. I'm sure everyone here knows that you have nothing to offer, in terms of legitimate advice, but YOU don't seem to know that. You're not a resident; you're not a medical student; you're not even a pre-med college student. You should stick with the OWL forums, where, perhaps, you can offer some element of legitimate conjecture.

Get it through your thick head. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, and therefore, you shouldn't talk! At all! None. Nadda. Zip.
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As for the original topic being discussed, my personal opinion (having looked at the exact same options that you have) is that it just doesn't make financial sense to join.

The financial benefits of uninterrupted private practice would be enough to more than cover the debts you incur in medical school. Speaking as someone who has a lot of debt, and is getting an economic hardship def., I can tell you that I am more than comfortable with my finacial picture now.

I'm buying a house, and in the next few months will probably get a new car for my wife (Yes, OwlMyste, she knows about you)

And I never have to worry about conflicts which may or may not come up overseas.

If you want to join the military for patriotic reasons or whatever, I would say, go for it. My brothers are in the military, and I am extremely proud of their service.

But don't do it for the financial stuff. It's too much risk for not so much gain.

GI Guy

 

[Future GI Guy]

Oh and one more thing.

If you're concerned about the extra 1100 a month during residency, you may want to consider moonlighting.

You could easily work 2 weekend days a month and make up a big chunk of the reserve money.

Consider working 2-12 hour shifts moonlighting in the middle of nowhere ER. 24 hours at 50 bucks an hour (I've heard moonlighters make between 40-60 dollars an hour, sometimes more), then we're talking 1200 dollars a month in extra income.

That can add up quickly if you're willing to work more.

I know a guy who moonlighted every chance he could get (he's not married), and over the course of his 5 years residency / fellowship, he paid off his medical school debts.

Just another financial option to cloud the picture for you.

GI Guy

 

[OwlMyste]

Originally posted by Future GI Guy
OwlMyste,

This is exactly why you're not welcome to post in these forums.

You have NO idea what it means to have debt, to pay off debt, to be called to active duty away from a 300K job (active duty doesn't pay nearly that much), to have a family, to have patients dependent on you performing their surgeries or seeing them in follow up clinic.

If you joined the military, you wouldn't be an officer, like we would, so the fact that you WOULD join the military if you weren't medically inelligible doesn't mean anything to these guys.

Put simply, these are NOT issues that a 19 year old high school senior should chime in on. I'm sure everyone here knows that you have nothing to offer, in terms of legitimate advice, but YOU don't seem to know that. You're not a resident; you're not a medical student; you're not even a pre-med college student. You should stick with the OWL forums, where, perhaps, you can offer some element of legitimate conjecture.

Get it through your thick head. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, and therefore, you shouldn't talk! At all! None. Nadda. Zip.
-----

As for the original topic being discussed, my personal opinion (having looked at the exact same options that you have) is that it just doesn't make financial sense to join.

The financial benefits of uninterrupted private practice would be enough to more than cover the debts you incur in medical school. Speaking as someone who has a lot of debt, and is getting an economic hardship def., I can tell you that I am more than comfortable with my finacial picture now.

I'm buying a house, and in the next few months will probably get a new car for my wife (Yes, OwlMyste, she knows about you)

And I never have to worry about conflicts which may or may not come up overseas.

If you want to join the military for patriotic reasons or whatever, I would say, go for it. My brothers are in the military, and I am extremely proud of their service.

But don't do it for the financial stuff. It's too much risk for not so much gain.

GI Guy

I know enough about debt to know that I don't want to be in it! By the way, go find someone else to bug the hell out of, because its getting really old now. btw...I dont give a **** if your wife knows about me. you, a married man should know damn well not to cheat on their spouse!

 

[Lee]

It's not worth it.

 

[Future GI Guy]

OwlMyste,

Again, your stupidity has gotten the best of you.

I made that statement ("she knows about you") in reference to the things I wrote about you in the past. You remember, the ones you tried to erase because they were "Negative towards you."

I sometimes think you cannot distiguish between fact and fiction.

Let me help you: anything written in cyberspace about your psychosis and flatulence is probably fiction.

And I think it's a safe bet that everyone who read those posts, excluding yourself, realized they were made up. You went out of your way to "prove" they were made up, which makes you look like a complete fool. Which you are.

FYI: my wife laughed a great deal at the online prose I contributed, and she's not involved in medicine at all. Sad to say, however, that she knows more about medicine than you probably ever will.

GI Guy

PS: Oh, and great insight about not wanting to go into debt. Good luck with that if you ever (and this is a terrific stretch) get into medical school.

 

[Future GI Guy]

Originally posted by OwlMyste
you, a married man should know damn well not to cheat on their spouse!

Possessive Pronouns and commas, OwlMyste.

You should learn how to use them correctly.

The line should read:

"You, a married man, should know damn well not to cheat on your spouse!"

Notice the "your" instead of "their."

There's only one of me.


GI Guy

 

[Docgeorge]

Originally posted by OwlMyste
...then theres nothing to lose....sure theres the risk of getting called up to active duty, but thats worth it...

You have no clue about what it is to risk getting called up. I missed getting called up and having to postpone medical school for god knows how long by about 2 weeks. You have no clue what it's like to be in a military unit, espically a reserve unit, and you know nothing about the stress that it puts on you and your family. Further more you are saying things that might be taken seriously be someone who does not know your history.

Please, please, please...dont go blabbering about things you know nothing about.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

GI Guy is right about the money. Don't do it purely for the money.

If you love the military and want to contribute, then the money is icing on the cake.

 

[Imhotep]

or, you could moonlight one weekend out of the month. And, at lets say 60 bucks an hour for two 12-hour shifts, that's almost 1500 a month.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by Imhotep
or, you could moonlight one weekend out of the month. And, at lets say 60 bucks an hour for two 12-hour shifts, that's almost 1500 a month.

Some programs do not allow moonlighting, and now with the 80-hour work week rules, it may be more difficult to moonlight. If caught and you're breaking the rules, then you may be booted from the program. Just another thing to consider.

 

[smackdaddy]

and of course, if you are not er trained (or even if you are) and something bad happens, you could get sued. once you are sued (god forbid), you will have to list it on all privileging applications and defending any lawsuit will eliminate any financial advantage you got from working your shifts.

 

[Future GI Guy]

I agree with those two previous posts; I don't know if it'll be harder or easier to moonlight nowadays.

Some programs only allow moonlighting within the hospital that you are currently employed as a resident. This reduces risk slightly, because by and large, there is more back-up at these hospitals.

Of course, you don't have to work in an ER, either. I will have no desire to see children because I'm not going into PEDS. That said, you can find some creative moonlighting gigs, including spending the night as the "House Officer" in a county jail (where you'd get paid to sleep), and Nursing Home Assignments (wouldn't want to do this one, though). You could work in the urgent care of a VA and see no children (which would be ideal for me).

I met a resident who did nuclear medicine injections as his moonlighting job. That was it. He administered the isotopes or whatever. (Sweet job, almost NO risk).

It's out there, and for the motivated resident, you can find some extra hours each month, as long as those hours don't put you over the 80 a week.

 

[Future GI Guy]

Originally posted by Imhotep
or, you could moonlight one weekend out of the month. And, at lets say 60 bucks an hour for two 12-hour shifts, that's almost 1500 a month.

Imhotep,

I made this exact same point a few posts before you.

Only, my figures were different.

I can't tell if you knew that, though, and we're ribbing me a little.

Or if you didn't know it at all.

I guess it is difficult to read people's tone and intention in these forums.

GI Guy

 

[OwlMyste]

Originally posted by Future GI Guy
I met a resident who did nuclear medicine injections as his moonlighting job. That was it. He administered the isotopes or whatever. (Sweet job, almost NO risk).

I recently had an MRI done a few months ago, to see if I could get off my epilepsy medications. (They also did an EEG too, but an MRI they wanted to do also because I guess it was a requirement...) They would have injected me with radioactive material had it been necessary, but the doctor said it was not necessary. I told my mother about it later that day, and she told me to never let them inject radioactive material into me. I can agree with that now, because theres no way in HELL I would let anyone inject me with radioactive substances. Because Radioactive substances are extremely dangerous and toxic, no matter what the doseage is. Sure they say they give you safe doses of radioactive drugs, but that just means that they only put a little toxins in the body, not alot. They also mentioned whatever side effects it may have, so God Forbid anyone have an allergic reaction to the stuff........!

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by OwlMyste
I recently had an MRI done a few months ago, to see if I could get off my epilepsy medications. (They also did an EEG too, but an MRI they wanted to do also because I guess it was a requirement...) They would have injected me with radioactive material had it been necessary, but the doctor said it was not necessary. I told my mother about it later that day, and she told me to never let them inject radioactive material into me. I can agree with that now, because theres no way in HELL I would let anyone inject me with radioactive substances. Because Radioactive substances are extremely dangerous and toxic, no matter what the doseage is. Sure they say they give you safe doses of radioactive drugs, but that just means that they only put a little toxins in the body, not alot. They also mentioned whatever side effects it may have, so God Forbid anyone have an allergic reaction to the stuff........!

Owl,

If you had an MRI done, then the substance they were going to inject was contrast (gadolinium). Gadolinium IS NOT RADIOACTIVE.

http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q1933.html

 

[OwlMyste]

Originally posted by Ophtho_MudPhud
Owl,

If you had an MRI done, then the substance they were going to inject was contrast (gadolinium). Gadolinium IS NOT RADIOACTIVE.

http://hps.org/publicinformation/ate/q1933.html

Afte I told my mother (she was at work at the time), her boss overheard her. Her boss said that her husband had an MRI done and that the stuff they injected into him was radioactive. I'm just saying that even doing nuclear medicine, I still wouldn't want to have anything radioactive injected into me. The MRI sheets I had to sign said there was a risk of allergic reaction😱 and I had to sign a waiver giving them permission to do an emergency IV, etc just in case that happened...😱😱....but thanks for the website optho..😎

 

[maxheadroom]

Owl,

Once again your inexperience is showing.

1. True, a VERY few people do have an allergic reaction to IV contrast for MRI/CT scans. These are rare and can usually be managed with the proper IV meds. Most people would say that the risk of the contrast is worth the information that the scans can provide. This, however, brings up an important part of medicine: knowing the risk of a test and the desirability of the information. In a healthy 19 year-old owl like yourself, IV contrast is extremely safe. In a 75 year-old diabetic with CRI, IV contrast can be deadly.

2. Nuclear medicine (also known as "unclear medicine" at my institution) provides extremely safe scans. Most of the scans use Tc, which has a half-life of less than twelve hours. The radiation exposure is less than taking a round-trip transcontinental flight from the US to Asia and back again. There has been no correlation of "toxic" complications of routine nuclear scans.

Once again, love your desire to learn, but don't share your ignorance with us.

 

[Imhotep]

GI:
Looking back at the previous posts, it appears that you were indeed correct in mentioning that you'd made a similar point earlier about augmenting your income by moonlighting. No "ribbing" was intended.

Optho:
In several of the non surgical specialties including FP, Peds, IM, the average workweek constitutes around 60 hours once you are past the intern year. Also, some programs have conveniently instituted "in house" moonlighting, which allows them to function under the 80h requirement.

As far as someone's comment about non EM physicians not being qualified for ER work, I dont recall mentioning working at one specifically. There are many ways to skin a cat. You can work at a convenient/urgent care clinic, for one. Some people do chart reviews, and some "work" in ERs doing simple laceration repair, performing H&Ps etc and in other capacities as mentioned by GI guy.
In primary care, especially in FP, many hospitals in rural/underserved areas will actually pay off your student loans, up to 25k per year for four years, henceforth reducing your monetary burden significantly.

In any case, the OP seemed quite focused on the financial benefits of joining the reserves. Of course, if one is so inclined to serve our country, there are other ways like volunteering your time etc.

 

[tman]

Originally posted by OwlMyste
I recently had an MRI done a few months ago, to see if I could get off my epilepsy medications. (They also did an EEG too, but an MRI they wanted to do also because I guess it was a requirement...) They would have injected me with radioactive material had it been necessary, but the doctor said it was not necessary. I told my mother about it later that day, and she told me to never let them inject radioactive material into me. I can agree with that now, because theres no way in HELL I would let anyone inject me with radioactive substances. Because Radioactive substances are extremely dangerous and toxic, no matter what the doseage is. Sure they say they give you safe doses of radioactive drugs, but that just means that they only put a little toxins in the body, not alot. They also mentioned whatever side effects it may have, so God Forbid anyone have an allergic reaction to the stuff........!

WTF....over? 😕

Who gives a hairy rat's behind?

hmmmmm loose associations (check), delusions and ideas of reference (check), paranoia (check), Owl do you by chance have a flat affect???

 

[OwlMyste]

Originally posted by tman
WTF....over? 😕

Who gives a hairy rat's behind?

hmmmmm loose associations (check), delusions and ideas of reference (check), paranoia (check), Owl do you by chance have a flat affect???

go **** yourself *******......

 

[Wrigleyville]

Originally posted by OwlMyste
go **** yourself *******......

You are all class.

 

[tman]

Nothing but love from me Owl that was an outstanding comeback...
😍 😍 😍 😍