Mindray Anesthesia Machines

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Urzuz

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Does anyone here have recent experience with Mindray anesthesia machines? I found a thread from a couple years back with mixed opinions on it, but was wondering if anyone had any up to date firsthand experience with these machines.

Our administration is potentially going to buy them. If the machines are fairly equivalent to the big name competitors, i wont create a fuss, but if there is a large difference in quality (namely, the safety and reliability of it) I don’t have a problem vetoing their idea.

We will be trialing it but that won’t give me the long term experience with it that I’m looking for.
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They are knockoffs. They suck. Monitors suck. They are like those fake Apple Watches for $5.
 
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We use them at our ambulatory surgery center. Not a fan. Have had issues where the expiratory sevoflurane calculation is overestimated so the patients are a lot lighter than what you would believe. Feels like a Toys-R-Us version of an anesthesia machine. Definitely a downgrade in quality from the Drager Perseus machines. For an outpatient center with all healthy patients and short cases, probably can get away with it but for your sick ones, I feel like it's a disservice.
 
Urzuz said:
Does anyone here have recent experience with Mindray anesthesia machines? I found a thread from a couple years back with mixed opinions on it, but was wondering if anyone had any up to date firsthand experience with these machines.

Our administration is potentially going to buy them. If the machines are fairly equivalent to the big name competitors, i wont create a fuss, but if there is a large difference in quality (namely, the safety and reliability of it) I don’t have a problem vetoing their idea.

We will be trialing it but that won’t give me the long term experience with it that I’m looking for.
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We have them at all of our ASCs. They are OK. Never had a significant issue.

Flows go up to 22l/m

They are like a hyundai.

Bellows driven ventilator is a disadvantage
 
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They’re not as good and relatively minor issues seem to occur more frequently. However, the trade off is they’re cheaper.
 
The A7 touchscreen is terrible, the trackpad is as terrible.

They get the job done but the calibration and fine turning is definitely absent as mentioned

If you are used to drager perseus, Apollo then it’s a step down for sure

It’s a step above the Fabius however
 
addoncase said:
The A7 touchscreen is terrible, the trackpad is as terrible.

They get the job done but the calibration and fine turning is definitely absent as mentioned

If you are used to drager perseus, Apollo then it’s a step down for sure

It’s a step above the Fabius however
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Ha anything is a step above the fabius. Had one in residency for peds mri in the middle of nowhere. Can't believe no one died
 
it’s a Chinese company. So I believe some facilities won’t use Mindray. I don’t think federal facilities allow Chinese manufacturers (that’s the truth or it may have changed). My friend who’s anesthesia tech at VA facilities said they can’t even order face mask from china manufacturers.

Like a TikTok ban (no pun intended) on all government devices (some state government and university imposed TikTok ban as well).
 
Do y'all realize that dragers suck? I mean it has actual flow control knobs like the 80s. You have to titrate flow control knobs to mix oxygen properly. I don't know about mindrays but to compare that to drager as a great machine is toddler behavior.

GE avance cs2 is the best anesthesia machine on the market. It's like a Ferrari compared to a model T drager.
 
Draeger Apollo is the greatest. Fabius too basic and Perseus too advanced. Change my mind.

Mindray is cheap and, even with bellows, allows insanely low flows.
 
We have them. I came from a place with Perseus machines everywhere and honestly I don't feel limited in any way. They're fine. I sure as hell wouldn't pay an extra $50K or whatever it is per machine to get some fancy German stuff.

Touchscreen is poor, sort of. Tapping with pad of finger the way you would on a good capacitance touch screen is a little frustrating, but they seem to do a lot better with fingernail taps, if that makes sense.
 
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medicine2wallstreet said:
Do y'all realize that dragers suck? I mean it has actual flow control knobs like the 80s. You have to titrate flow control knobs to mix oxygen properly. I don't know about mindrays but to compare that to drager as a great machine is toddler behavior.

GE avance cs2 is the best anesthesia machine on the market. It's like a Ferrari compared to a model T drager.
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If you were half as good as you pretend to be you'd understand that absolutely none of that matters. All of the machines mentioned in this thread mix gases and hold vaporizers and will deliver an FiO2 and agent concentration of your choosing with less than 2 seconds of knob twisting or button pushing.

Maaaaaybe some of the ventilators hold an advantage in some edge cases, like ventilating neonates, or tweaking vent settings for true pulmonary cripples.

Toddler behavior, indeed.
 
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out of curiosity
Anyone know how much it costs to service these Anes machines for regular maintenance ?
 
ProPropofol said:
We use them at our ambulatory surgery center. Not a fan. Have had issues where the expiratory sevoflurane calculation is overestimated so the patients are a lot lighter than what you would believe. Feels like a Toys-R-Us version of an anesthesia machine. Definitely a downgrade in quality from the Drager Perseus machines. For an outpatient center with all healthy patients and short cases, probably can get away with it but for your sick ones, I feel like it's a disservice.
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I used the Mindray at an ASC and noticed the overestimation as well. I wondered if it just needed to be recalibrated somehow. I initially wanted to put up a fuss about it, but realized it probably didn’t matter for the 10 minute knee scopes. I wouldn’t want it for long cases on sick patients, though.
 
pgg said:
If you were half as good as you pretend to be you'd understand that absolutely none of that matters. All of the machines mentioned in this thread mix gases and hold vaporizers and will deliver an FiO2 and agent concentration of your choosing with less than 2 seconds of knob twisting or button pushing.

Maaaaaybe some of the ventilators hold an advantage in some edge cases, like ventilating neonates, or tweaking vent settings for true pulmonary cripples.

Toddler behavior, indeed.
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Used dragers plenty at a separate rotation. Dramatically inferior machine.
 
We had Dragers for most of residency. We switched to GE towards the end of my training. Now in my PP it’s exclusively Mindray. When I first came out here we had a few old Spacelabs Blease machines. Of all these different machines I’ve used, the only ones I actually had consistent problems with were the Spacelabs… those things were trash. I’ve been on Mindrays for about 6 years now and never had an issue with them.
 
Currently use GE Datex-Ohmeda Aisys CS2. Had these machines at our surgery center in residency and they were fine. They are fine now as well.

Main machine they upgraded to during my CA1 year was the Drager Perseus. Hate how big they are but really enjoyed them after a short time. It could be a little finicky at times.

Our peds people loved the Drager Perseus due to the ability to provide very precise tiny tidal volumes with the turbine.

Used a Mindray machine a couple times at a tiny surgery center and my biggest complaints were driven by my unfamiliarity rather than the actual machine. It worked fine. As above the touchscreen was a little wonky at times.
 
abolt18 said:
Currently use GE Datex-Ohmeda Aisys CS2. Had these machines at our surgery center in residency and they were fine. They are fine now as well.

Main machine they upgraded to during my CA1 year was the Drager Perseus. Hate how big they are but really enjoyed them after a short time. It could be a little finicky at times.

Our peds people loved the Drager Perseus due to the ability to provide very precise tiny tidal volumes with the turbine.

Used a Mindray machine a couple times at a tiny surgery center and my biggest complaints were driven by my unfamiliarity rather than the actual machine. It worked fine. As above the touchscreen was a little wonky at times.
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I like the datex. I thought the perseus was really good at blowing off gas
 
pgg said:
How so?

What is it that you have trouble doing with them?
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Titrating flows with knobs is Virginia Apgar anesthesia. I should be able to punch 100% oxygen and change flows by electronic immediate feedback, especially in emergencies. Drager does not allow this. You have to spin knobs. And moreover it's not an actual flowmeter even though it's a knob on drager. It's a half assed electronictized flowmeter.

And I absolutely HATED having to punch the button spontaneous mode twice or whatever to switch to the bag. I like to flip the handle on GE to know in an instant I'm on the bag to handle an emergency.
 
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They keep knobs on purpose because people like knobs
That's why car makers are going from screen overload to putting knobs back in the way it should be
 
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medicine2wallstreet said:
Titrating flows with knobs is Virginia Apgar anesthesia. I should be able to punch 100% oxygen and change flows by electronic immediate feedback, especially in emergencies. Drager does not allow this. You have to spin knobs. And moreover it's not an actual flowmeter even though it's a knob on drager. It's a half assed electronictized flowmeter.

And I absolutely HATED having to punch the button spontaneous mode twice or whatever to switch to the bag. I like to flip the handle on GE to know in an instant I'm on the bag to handle an emergency.
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lol much less to go wrong when you keep it simple. Too much tech is not always the answer.
 
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Arch Guillotti said:
lol much less to go wrong when you keep it simple. Too much tech is not always the answer.
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I work in a place that still has a Narkomed. I don't mind it. I at least trained on it, and when the Apollo was the fancy machine in 2 rooms in the ORs.

I am not a fan of the mindray. I really like the Apollo, and I'm fine with the Persius. Most ORs I'm in have the Fabius.
 
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medicine2wallstreet said:
Titrating flows with knobs is Virginia Apgar anesthesia. I should be able to punch 100% oxygen and change flows by electronic immediate feedback, especially in emergencies. Drager does not allow this. You have to spin knobs. And moreover it's not an actual flowmeter even though it's a knob on drager. It's a half assed electronictized flowmeter.
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Er, on any of those machines if you want 100% oxygen you just spin the air knob (and/or nitrous if you use that stuff) all the way closed. Takes literally a fraction of a second.

You don't even have to look at the flowmeter knobs, the way you do touchscreen controls, because they're textured differently. (You're aware that's an ancient and enduring safety feature, right?)

medicine2wallstreet said:
And I absolutely HATED having to punch the button spontaneous mode twice or whatever to switch to the bag. I like to flip the handle on GE to know in an instant I'm on the bag to handle an emergency.
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Look, I'm not going to argue that you're not entitled to have a preference of one machine over another. You can certainly like the GE more than the Drager or the Mindray or whatever. You don't even need a better reason than preferring the paint job of one over the other. There's a joy to owning and using high quality tools even if they aren't strictly necessary. But don't put on these silly airs about one being "dramatically inferior" to another.

I'm not above whining about machines that annoy me. Today I had to wait more than a minute for some fancy GE ultrasound machine in the cath lab to boot up before I could use it. No idea why it can't be instant-on like the Sonosites or why some engineer (or marketing doofus) decided it needs to run Windows.

But your complaints about the Dragers ... I don't want to be mean and say dumb, but they're nonsensical.


If it was up to me and I was spending someone else's money, I'd buy all GE machines for no other reasons than Buy 'Merican, beat Germany, and **** China. But there is absolutely nothing about the Drager or Mindray machines that makes patient care the slightest bit more difficult or dangerous. I don't want to dismiss your opinion because you're a resident, but these kinds of really strong opinions about the equipment you prefer or need to be safe in an emergency are really the voice of inexperience.
 
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Pgg and me would probably be good friends in practice even if he doesn't like me on here.
 
i use whatever is available as long as it works.
 
medicine2wallstreet said:
Pgg and me would probably be good friends in practice even if he doesn't like me on here.
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Probably. Also, I don't dislike you, I just feel compelled to push back against your hyperbole. It's a character flaw of mine. :) My guess is that online you're more dogmatic than in real life.

You strike me as someone who's probably a smart resident who's sick and tired of the days you're stuck with mediocre attendings who make you do dumb stuff or tell you ridiculous things, so you lean in the other direction with overstrong opinions on things.

I'm sure you'll do well. Just, maybe keep a bit of a lid on it for a bit at whatever practice you end up at. :)
 
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GassYous said:
They keep knobs on purpose because people like knobs
That's why car makers are going from screen overload to putting knobs back in the way it should be
Click to expand...


A few years ago I had a near death experience on the central California coast trying to turn on the windshield defogger in my sister’s Tesla.
 
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We demo’ed the GE machines and they had some interesting features not available on our Dragers. But we also recently switched our monitors to GE and they are absolute garbage
 
I actually don’t like the switch to change from manual to vent. I used the touch screen to put on the vent on the machines I used in residency and the surgical center. The first few times I used it and turned on the vent on screen it took me a few seconds to realize why the patient wasn’t ventilating. It’s a familiarity thing.

I don’t like the touchscreen on mindray either. It sucks as others have said.
 
pgg said:
Probably. Also, I don't dislike you, I just feel compelled to push back against your hyperbole. It's a character flaw of mine. :) My guess is that online you're more dogmatic than in real life.

You strike me as someone who's probably a smart resident who's sick and tired of the days you're stuck with mediocre attendings who make you do dumb stuff or tell you ridiculous things, so you lean in the other direction with overstrong opinions on things.

I'm sure you'll do well. Just, maybe keep a bit of a lid on it for a bit at whatever practice you end up at. :)
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You hit the absolute nail on the head with being exhausted from the barely better than a CRNA attending experience.

And yes I will keep a tight lid when I become an attending for a while.
 
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neutro said:
i use whatever is available as long as it works.
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I agree with you. Most of the new stuff is crap compared to the previous generations. I will use any anesthesia machine as long as it works. I prefer a machine less than 10 years old because the newer models don't hold up particularly well. That said, I use a lot of 20 year old equipment. Mindray seems okay for the cost but the machine seems to have quality control issues so as long as you have the maintenance contract and a good technician they can be cost effective. Didn't GE sell their division to China?

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I always wonder what the driving force is behind anesthesia machine upgrades. I’ve been at a couple of institutions that have replaced perfectly good machines with new ones. There were no problems with the ones that were being used. Do Drager, GE, and the like just stop servicing certain models? I can understand upgrading something like the Narkomeds to machines with more modern ventilator modes, but I have seen some “upgrades” where the new machines offer almost no advantage over older machines. It seems like a huge waste of money to me.
 
What is the lifespan of an anesthesia machine?


10 years

The average lifespan of an anesthesia machine typically exceeds 10 years; therefore, you must consider whether the equipment that you purchase meets not only your needs today, but also your future needs
 
I probably would rather have a refurbished Machine than a Mindray. The question comes down to the hospital's contracts with vendors and maintenance contract. Typically, hospitals buy multiple machines at a time and expect big discounts with long term contracts.

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GE Avance S5 Carestation Anesthesia Machine Refurbished

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pgg said:
How so?

What is it that you have trouble doing with them?
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We have Perseus machines. Good stuff.
Never saw a Mindray, but that Narcomed is giving me flashbacks. We looked at GE, but they were more expensive, offered all kinds of crazy data dump nerd garbage nobody wants, and we don’t love our GE monitors.
 
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