Minorities, I have good news!

[QuackDentist]

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its goes to 36

oooh... then i did even better than i thought i did.

 

[prez_al]

All I know is I'm for helping the underdeserved, not sure what to make of the OP's situation. But to the majority of us... keep in mind, MOST if not ALL dental schools in the United States have Community Outreach programs designed to help those who can't afford dental care. I would hope that none of our future patients read SDN threads like this one as some of you are probably only posting out of blind rage. We all will have to help the underprivilaged at some point in our dental education and it'd be nice if people would respect that fact.

I would only hope that the OP takes this opportunity to prove many of us (and standardized testing) wrong and become a great dentist... and to give back to her community so in the future, schools won't have to rely on the race card as much.

 

[_veo_]

its goes to 36. i'm not impressed.

I wish I did better, but I took it when I was in the country after only 2 years and I didn't know any english before hand.. oh well, I wasn't trying to impress you. My point was that the full ride "hand outs" don't make sense because I didn't get one and I scored above 21. I'm not saying that I deserved one.

 

[cdmOMR]

Just remember, if you think this is not fair, think about how many things I could pull out of my bag that hasn't been fair due to my race. And once again, I apologize for ever posting this thread on such a majority dominated website. I guess you guys probably think I should go back to where I belong.

Enlighten us please. Its hard to understand while all of us white males are sitting on our horses playing polo while the servant girl serves us lemonades. 🙄

Im all for equal rights for everyone regardless of race or sex or whatever as Life is good said...but regardless of how you look at it, it is reverse discrimination to accept someone with lower statistics based on their race.

Now some may argue that minorities grew up in tougher situations and thats why they should be let to colleges with less credentials...but why do you also think that the drop-out rate for minorities is so much higher? Because they are underprepared. It doesnt solve any problem by letting underqualified people in, it just putting a shiney cover over it.

What really needs to be changed is the conditions in which minorities grow up in.

 

[OSUDDS]

i'm all for community outreach and helping others, but discriminating against people on terms of race for spots into graduate school seems wrong.

 

[busdent]

dumb question but how 16's all across add up to 130?

Bio=GC=OC=RC=QR=PAT : 16 * 6 = 96

17's all across : 17 * 6 = 102

18's all across: 18 * 6 = 108
19's all across: 19 * 6 = 114
20's all across: 20 * 6 = 120
21's all across: 21 * 6 = 126

so having 21's all across is about 126.
Am I missing something?

 

[starfishbear]

Honestly i really find that minorities always "try" to find a reason to believe they are discriminated against. In reality, everyone has an equal chance to excel in academics, life or whatever. Instead of wasting your time trying to defend yourself, reach out, extend a hand and work hard, harder than the person sitting next to you. Hard work is rewarded.

 

[in her drawer]

dumb question but how 16's all across add up to 130?

Bio=GC=OC=RC=QR=PAT : 16 * 6 = 96

17's all across : 17 * 6 = 102

18's all across: 18 * 6 = 108
19's all across: 19 * 6 = 114
20's all across: 20 * 6 = 120
21's all across: 21 * 6 = 126

so having 21's all across is about 126.
Am I missing something?

Add in the TS and AA numbers as well.

 

[hgfdsa]

i never took the act, but i like veo's attitude and i dont see why you are trying to devalue his success

 

[_veo_]

This upsets me. I'm not even african american, but I don't think it is fair to generalize that all minorities just want to be handed out things without doing any work. I know many smart african americans that work their asses off to get high gpas and all that. Just remember that not EVERYONE fits in that category.
I understand, I would be upset too if someone with lower stats gets in instead of me. I know some people take advantage of this, in both ends. Oh well, there should be a better way.

 

[_veo_]

i never took the act, but i like veo's attitude and i dont see why you are trying to devalue his success

Thank you. I'm a girl 😀

 

[ecuajedi]

I dont think anyone has a problem with some that has a 19 or so on the DAT and a descent GPA getting, but the OP said as long as you got basically a 16 you were set. You sound like you match up with all applicants on these boards and deserve to get in.

 

[hgfdsa]

Thank you. I'm a girl

Ha sorry!

 

[maksidaa]

i think that in general you put EVERYONE at a disadvantage when race plays a role in admissions. i have a friend that is scared to put on her appl that she is cuban b/c she thinks there are only a few spots open for hispanics but she doesn't want to put that she's "caucasian" b/c she might have a better chance at getting in if she's labeled a minority. every school that asked for my race said they did so for "research" purposes and that they advocate equal opportunity. maybe i don't understand the meaning of that phrase, but i think it adds an element to the admissions process that is unnecessary and only adds more fuel to the race issue. if you have an underprivelaged background then let it be known through your personal essay, interviews, etc. and if your life has been a constant struggle then you should probably catch a break for once, but race does not equal the difficulty of one's life.

 

[fancymylotus]

Whoever said that they have simiilar circumstances as a black student, think again. You have never and will never have similiar circumstances. Furthermore, if you guys are thinking that I come from some broke down housing projects think again. I am very educated, sister is a lawyer at a prominent law firm, and mother is a nurse practitioner. I, just like many of you happen to not score well on standardized tests. Just remember, if you think this is not fair, think about how many things I could pull out of my bag that hasn't been fair due to my race. And once again, I apologize for ever posting this thread on such a majority dominated website. I guess you guys probably think I should go back to where I belong.

This thread needs to be moved to the Everyone forum.

With that said, byorkie,you're way out of line. Youre blaming your scoring on standardized tests on.....what again? Here's a hint...BUY DESTROYER🙂laugh: )and study harder next time! Please share the other things that arent fair because of your race. I'd love to hear how you, personally, have been affected by them. Are you using THAT to explain your scores? I'm a little lost.

PS: You wanna talk about unfair situations...what about legacy kids?

 

[in her drawer]

This thread needs to be moved to the Everyone forum.

Actually, seeing as how it's flame bait, it just needs to be locked.

 

[Sprgrover]

Actually, seeing as how it's flame bait, it just needs to be locked.

Just because something is controversial or disagrees with guest's ideology doesn't mean a thread will or should be closed. Discussion and debate are encouraged on SDN and those individuals that violate these rules will be dealt with as necessary. While this thread has stirred a lot of dialogue everyone is conducting him/herself in a decent manner and I see no reason at this time to close it down or move it to another forum.

 

[armorshell]

Couple of things I want to address:

1: It's not illegal for an institution to accept any applicant they feel is qualified. While accepting an applicant (almost) purely based on race may be unethical, I don't believe it is illegal. Rejecting an applicant purely based on race is another matter

2: In regards to the ethics of "Affirmitive Action" please realize what's going on here is fundamentally different from AA. Professional schools need to overaccept minority populations, which are statistically underserved, to solve that discrepancy. Someone has to take care of these populations, and just ask youself this question: Is your dentist the same race as you? (Please don't post an answer, just think about it)

3: Though I do believe all of the above, I still think it is pretty tactless of the OP to wave an acceptance like this in front of what is a primarily non-minority board. Yes I understand you "Wanted to give all the other minority students some hope" but it certainly seems to most people here that you're flaunting your future acceptance.

 

[DMD2007]

Enlighten us please. Its hard to understand while all of us white males are sitting on our horses playing polo while the servant girl serves us lemonades. 🙄

Im all for equal rights for everyone regardless of race or sex or whatever as Life is good said...but regardless of how you look at it, it is reverse discrimination to accept someone with lower statistics based on their race.

Now some may argue that minorities grew up in tougher situations and thats why they should be let to colleges with less credentials...but why do you also think that the drop-out rate for minorities is so much higher? Because they are underprepared. It doesnt solve any problem by letting underqualified people in, it just putting a shiney cover over it.

What really needs to be changed is the conditions in which minorities grow up in.

I Concur.

 

[Fuji]

Try this exercise: Pick the student who is more disadvantaged and deserves special consideration for admission into dental school:

A) The kid whose mom was a crack-addict, abondoning him/her as an orphan, causing the student to live with severe developmental problems and to work 40 hours a week while in school just to buy food, leaving no extra money for a Kaplan class and very little time for studying. GPA = 3.1, AA = 19, PA = 18

Or

B) The kid whose parents are wealthy doctors and lawyers able to provide the student with a lavish college lifestyle at an expensive private college. The student is able to shadow premier dentists and oral surgeons because they are friends of the family, and can afford to take any (even all) of the best prep classes available. GPA = 3.1, AA = 19, PA = 18

Would your answer change if I told you that Student A was white and student B was black? How about the other way around?

 

[arbelm1]

please,whatever you do,do not start a victim party here.

Whoever said that they have simiilar circumstances as a black student, think again. You have never and will never have similiar circumstances. Furthermore, if you guys are thinking that I come from some broke down housing projects think again. I am very educated, sister is a lawyer at a prominent law firm, and mother is a nurse practitioner. I, just like many of you happen to not score well on standardized tests. Just remember, if you think this is not fair, think about how many things I could pull out of my bag that hasn't been fair due to my race. And once again, I apologize for ever posting this thread on such a majority dominated website. I guess you guys probably think I should go back to where I belong.

 

[DDSY]

The core argument lies on defining what is "unfair". This depends on whether you are viewing the fairness of affirmative action from a short/long term perspective:

1. It is true that many non-underrep. applicants feel short-changed because they have better academic credentials (short-term view). Thus they would characterize admittance of underrep apps as reverse discrimination.

2. However, "unfairness" could also be seen from a long-term perspective. If we admit more qualified apps right now, there would be fewer underrepresented apps. While it is true that many "unqualified" apps fail, it is also true that many of them succeed, thus making it more likely that future trends will diminish "unfairness", b/c they will likely serve as role models and will have children who will be successful

 

[reapply2007]

Congratulations on getting accepted. I would still go to the other interviews just in case something goes wrong.

I am a little surprised a dean of admissions would say something like this on the phone to an applicant. The whole admissions process is pretty opaque.

 

[PlanB21]

i dont know why the "majority" gets upset about this topic..Just go look at the ADEA Official Dental Guide. For every school, the majority of the incoming classes are white, like by more than 90% So I do not know why the "majority" keeps crying over this fact. I just did an interview where there were about 60 applicants and i counted 54 white people. So quit your damn crying about this and that being unfair. You cannot argue with the facts.

 

[Pilot Mike]

can't we all just get along

 

[dentwannabe]

Couple of things I want to address:

1: It's not illegal for an institution to accept any applicant they feel is qualified. While accepting an applicant (almost) purely based on race may be unethical, I don't believe it is illegal. Rejecting an applicant purely based on race is another matter

2: In regards to the ethics of "Affirmitive Action" please realize what's going on here is fundamentally different from AA. Professional schools need to overaccept minority populations, which are statistically underserved, to solve that discrepancy. Someone has to take care of these populations, and just ask youself this question: Is your dentist the same race as you? (Please don't post an answer, just think about it)

3: Though I do believe all of the above, I still think it is pretty tactless of the OP to wave an acceptance like this in front of what is a primarily non-minority board. Yes I understand you "Wanted to give all the other minority students some hope" but it certainly seems to most people here that you're flaunting your future acceptance.

Best response yet in my opinion.

The middle path is key.

 

[vize]

I'm surprised that in one day, a thread can get this big when it's specifically speaking to 'minorities.' On the other hand, thanks byorkie for the info! I'm black and feel quite good about my chances for some of the best schools now, I appreciate it! I seriously don't see why anyone can be mad at the fact that schools are trying to diversify. So what if it seemingly 'creates an unfair playing field.' The field has been unfair since day one!

 

[byorkie]

I have done nothing wrong. This thread was not made to rub anything in anyones face. Actually, I have only said things that you should have already known. My question is, why is it not okay to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you? You people act like I am some theif that took your seat. Don't be mad at me and bash me because I got in with a low DAT, be mad at the school. My gpa is competitive, have over 1,000 hours as a dental assistant, and tons of other things that make me a competitive applicant. SDNers make up only a small population of the applicants, so while many of you have scored in the twenties, the average composite score is still a 17. (If you don't believe me, contact ADEA). Yes, I scored low in PAT but scored 18's in all the sciences. And whoever thinks that I didn't work hard in undergrad, think again. I have made A's in all the prereqs. Please calm down.

 

[ejcivicdee]

hopefully this minority thing is true. it will definitly help me out 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

 

[armorshell]

I'm surprised that in one day, a thread can get this big when it's specifically speaking to 'minorities.' On the other hand, thanks byorkie for the info! I'm black and feel quite good about my chances for some of the best schools now, I appreciate it! I seriously don't see why anyone can be mad at the fact that schools are trying to diversify. So what if it seemingly 'creates an unfair playing field.' The field has been unfair since day one!

Well the topic of 'Affirmative Action' policies doesn't relate only to minorities, so I wouldn't find it suprising at all.

Also, you of all people should be able to understand why some people would get angry because someone is being accepted over them simply because of the color of their skin. Imagine how you would feel if the OP were white.

 

[armorshell]

I have done nothing wrong. This thread was not made to rub anything in anyones face. Actually, I have only said things that you should have already known. My question is, why is it not okay to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you? You people act like I am some theif that took your seat. Don't be mad at me and bash me because I got in with a low DAT, be mad at the school. My gpa is competitive, have over 1,000 hours as a dental assistant, and tons of other things that make me a competitive applicant. SDNers make up only a small population of the applicants, so while many of you have scored in the twenties, the average composite score is still a 17. (If you don't believe me, contact ADEA). Yes, I scored low in PAT but scored 18's in all the sciences. And whoever thinks that I didn't work hard in undergrad, think again. I have made A's in all the prereqs. Please calm down.

The people acting as if you've done something wrong are just angry at the system, not at you. It's an unfair practice, but a necessary one; try to be a little more sensitive to their feelings. Imagine how you would feel if someone told you they were told they were guarenteed acceptance because they were white.

 

[doctorj321]

i dont know why the "majority" gets upset about this topic..Just go look at the ADEA Official Dental Guide. For every school, the majority of the incoming classes are white, like by more than 90% So I do not know why the "majority" keeps crying over this fact. I just did an interview where there were about 60 applicants and i counted 54 white people. So quit your damn crying about this and that being unfair. You cannot argue with the facts.

Were there more "white people" at the interview because the dental school favors them and discriminates against the minorities, or are there just more whites who apply? Are there stats regarding a percent breakdown of the ethnicity of applicants?

 

[Envision]

Okay, for all of you members of the "majority" who think this is so unfair, don't even get me started. First of all, the DAT has been known to not reflect a students actual performance in dental school. Secondly, not one of you have ever walked the shoes of a minority so don't say that this is bull and so unfair. And last but most definitely not least, I am a very smart student, will be a great dentist, and was only posting this thread to give some minority students hope if their scores were not in the 20's like all of you! If you have a problem with this, just know that it's reality so get over it!

I think everyone and anyone can make those statements. that is why we have the DATs, a standardized test. Say what you will, but if anthing, the DAT's is efficient in measuring different dental applicants (if not intelligence) and your scores are far from impressive and to get accepted automatically while the rest of us have to work hard and get in line behind you is unfair. put it this way, if your as smart and talented as you claim, you wouldnt need the special treatment. i think you should call that school and tell him to put you back in the applicant pool and try your chances like the rest of us. sounds fair no?

 

[Envision]

i dont know why the "majority" gets upset about this topic..Just go look at the ADEA Official Dental Guide. For every school, the majority of the incoming classes are white, like by more than 90% So I do not know why the "majority" keeps crying over this fact. I just did an interview where there were about 60 applicants and i counted 54 white people. So quit your damn crying about this and that being unfair. You cannot argue with the facts.

So? there are a lot of confounding variables in your argument. Could it be that more white applicants applied to that school? And what facts? where does it say 90% of the accepted students are white at every school? i went to the UCLA white coat ceremony of 2006 and i was pretty certain about half the class were asian...guess its not fact anymore huh? its also amazing that your so keen of everyones racial identity while im willing to bet you did not notice how many people over there were..what say...over 6 feet tall. btw, im viet/chinese, so don't start accusing me as part of the "majority" crying over it now being fair or whatever. besides, fair is getting to where you wanna go on your own 2 feet, not being given special treatment because of your racial identity.

 

[capisce?]

You people act like I am some theif that took your seat.

Thief. Perhaps your lack of a fifth-grader's spelling ability contributed to your low DAT. You are the poster child for why affirmative action is humorous. Congratulations!

Make sure you work out a lot when you are in school, you'll need some strong muscles to keep your hand out for the next 30 years.

 

[QuackDentist]

Thief. Perhaps your lack of a fifth-grader's spelling ability contributed to your low DAT. You are the poster child for why affirmative action is humorous. Congratulations!

Make sure you work out a lot when you are in school, you'll need some strong muscles to keep your hand out for the next 30 years.

Dude, you need to chill. I know that people here are getting riled up about the OP. But come on, that's a low blow and completely unethical.

You know very well that there are some people who are just bad spellers... you don't have to make an overarching generalization about the original poster's intelligence.

You're being very rude.

 

[Yeyyy]

i am kind of offending by the OP securing a position already. I do understand the whole affirmative action thing, and yes I believe it is true that african americans from low income areas do tend to go to african american dentists and all that...

but what about Howard University? or whichever other dental school that has 95% african-american students? I think those grades barely even make average for those schools. Also, I think that having two whole schools nearly fully devoted to 'Black Minorities' should be enough.


*there might just be just Howard that is 95% minority... but you know, same deal

 

[in her drawer]

Dude, you need to chill. I know that people here are getting riled up about the OP. But come on, that's a low blow and completely unethical.

You know very well that there are some people who are just bad spellers... you don't have to make an overarching generalization about the original poster's intelligence.

You're being very rude.

Quackers will always lay down the law. 😎

And I agree, that was a racist statement. It should not be tolerated, and capisce? should be banned for making such comments.

 

[in her drawer]

i am kind of offending by the OP securing a position already. I do understand the whole affirmative action thing, and yes I believe it is true that african americans from low income areas do tend to go to african american dentists and all that...

but what about Howard University? or whichever other dental school that has 95% african-american students? I think those grades barely even make average for those schools. Also, I think that having two whole schools nearly fully devoted to 'Black Minorities' should be enough.


*there might just be just Howard that is 95% minority... but you know, same deal

There are other underrepresented minorities besides African Americans. For example, I am Mexican, and last time I checked I think we were underrepresented too. Just because you think having a school like Howard or Meharry evens things out, that doesn't necessarily make it true. That is your opinion, not fact.

 

[capisce?]

Quackers will always lay down the law. 😎

And I agree, that was a racist statement. It should not be tolerated, and capisce? should be banned for making such comments.

Where in my post is there any comment on race? Spelling ability and accepting hand-outs, yes, but no mention of race. The way I am on here is not a reflection of what you'd get in person. Sorry to dissapoint.

Thank you, please drive through.

 

[in her drawer]

Where in post is there any comment on race? Spelling ability and accepting hand-outs, yes, but no mention of race.

You realize that your main problem is that affirmative action is given to minorities, right? So to harass the OP about her spelling mistake, and then to make a blanket generalization to say that all people who received AA are not as smart as white people is completely out of line.

 

[busdent]

I thought it was against the rules to let a student know if they are in before december 1st.

Does this happen at every school or specific schools?

 

[Sprgrover]

I thought it was against the rules to let a student know if they are in before december 1st.

Does this happen at every school or specific schools?

It's not unheard of to have an adcom from time to time to tell applicant "x" they're in (it happened to me - and yes, I did get a letter on Dec. 1st confirming the verbal statement) despite this being against the common agreement amongst dental schools.

 

[Sprgrover]

...The way I am on here is not a reflection of what you'd get in person. Sorry to dissapoint.

Thank you, please drive through.

I certainly hope not. Even when hiding behind the shield of anonymity tact and professionalism are still appreciated.

 

[byorkie]

Yeah right.....like I would really throw my acceptance out the window and get put back in the applicant pool. LOL, are you kidding me? And whoever had made the remark about me spelling a word wrong, please come back with something better than that. This is a forum, not spelling class and many of us type fast and spell words wrong all the time on these threads so give me a break.

 

[in her drawer]

The way I am on here is not a reflection of what you'd get in person. Sorry to dissapoint.

Thank you, please drive through.

Let me guess: you are far more of a prick in person.

 

[capisce?]

You realize that your main problem is that affirmative action is given to minorities, right? So to harass the OP about her spelling mistake, and then to make a blanket generalization to say that all people who received AA are not as smart as white people is completely out of line.

No, my problem isn't that affirmative action is given to blacks. Are you aware it's also given to a multitude of other minorities? Were you aware that blacks are not the only minority, and that in the next 40 years they will actually be the majority? My problem is that it is given, period. I don't care if it's given to aliens. This is professional school. I understand people come from disadvantaged backgrounds, green white or red. I understand the disparities in our society and think afirm. action is a great thing. But by the time you get to professional school it should be a level playing field, period. The DAT is not a test that discriminates on the color of someone's skin. You either know the answer, or you don't. It's plain and simple.

Because I referred to the poster's spelling ability, and they happen to be black, I must be racist and mean they can't spell because the are AA? Give me a break.

Your own supreme court of the USA ruled that when the university of michigan awarded an extra 20 points to minority students in undergrad enrolling, it was unconstitutional. They must be racist too, right?

Just because someone has an opinion on the subject does not make them a racist. It's such a double standard it makes me sick.

I spend a majority of the 40 hours in my week providing dental care for minorities, most of whom are on medicaid. That is more than 95% of you will ever do in that arena in your entire careers.

 

[in her drawer]

There are other underrepresented minorities besides African Americans.

Right there. Right there I said it. I cannot stand you. You are *****ic, and I shall make no mention of your race to boot.

 

[amartins02]

I have done nothing wrong. This thread was not made to rub anything in anyones face. Actually, I have only said things that you should have already known. My question is, why is it not okay to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you? You people act like I am some theif that took your seat. Don't be mad at me and bash me because I got in with a low DAT, be mad at the school. My gpa is competitive, have over 1,000 hours as a dental assistant, and tons of other things that make me a competitive applicant. SDNers make up only a small population of the applicants, so while many of you have scored in the twenties, the average composite score is still a 17. (If you don't believe me, contact ADEA). Yes, I scored low in PAT but scored 18's in all the sciences. And whoever thinks that I didn't work hard in undergrad, think again. I have made A's in all the prereqs. Please calm down.

why is it not ok? First off, if I could only make $3000 last year do I deserve food stamps? So what if I took "advantage" of that opportunity but I didn't tell them that I only need to make $3000 because I live with my parents who are doctor's? You are not "in a sense" a minority. Your parents have good careers and your sister has a good career. Obviously you had a good upbringing. So "technically" if you remove your skin color out of the equation and say...My mom is a nurse and my sister is a lawyer....will your let me in if I have a decent GPA and low DAT scores? Any school would say no.

The DAT like the SAT levels things out. You could go to the best private school and get a 4.0 and I could go to a crappy school and get a 3.3 but that doesn't mean your smarter than me. God...Harvard has a class on happiness..that must be real hard to get an A in. So the DAT's offer a comparison to a GPA in order to gauge someone's intelligence.

Like others have said AA might be ok in undergrad but not in graduate school. Honestly, if you had cancer in your brain that could be removed and you had the choice between a caucasion male or female doctor who got in based on their hard work or a minority male or female who got in and got by because they lowered the standards, who would you choose???????

Exactly.

 

[armorshell]

Your own supreme court of the USA ruled that when the university of michigan awarded an extra 20 points to minority students in undergrad enrolling, it was unconstitutional. They must be racist too, right?

Just because someone has an opinion on the subject does not make them a racist. It's such a double standard it makes me sick.

Yeah, awarding additional points because of race would be a racist policy. Affirmative Action policies are racist.

Asserting someone is undeserving of a dental education because they spelled a word wrong on an internet forum on the other hand, isn't racist;It's just plain, old ******ed.