Minorities, I have good news!

[armorshell]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I'm tired of people on here assuming that AA in dental school is to give minorities a leg up because their education was deficient in some way. IT'S NOT. It's because the dental community needs minority dental professionals!!!

 

[QuackDentist]

I spend a majority of the 40 hours in my week providing dental care for minorities, most of whom are on medicaid. That is more than 95% of you will ever do in that arena in your entire careers.

You can't judge what we will do or not do throughout our careers. You're not the only one who cares about the community. And besides, this isn't a competition of who can look like they care about minorities.

Once again, you make an unfair statement. You really have to stop doing that.

 

[MoobDDS]

Try this exercise: Pick the student who is more disadvantaged and deserves special consideration for admission into dental school:

A) The kid whose mom was a crack-addict, abondoning him/her as an orphan, causing the student to live with severe developmental problems and to work 40 hours a week while in school just to buy food, leaving no extra money for a Kaplan class and very little time for studying. GPA = 3.1, AA = 19, PA = 18

Or

B) The kid whose parents are wealthy doctors and lawyers able to provide the student with a lavish college lifestyle at an expensive private college. The student is able to shadow premier dentists and oral surgeons because they are friends of the family, and can afford to take any (even all) of the best prep classes available. GPA = 3.1, AA = 19, PA = 18

Would your answer change if I told you that Student A was white and student B was black? How about the other way around?

Good point. Forget race. We all go through **** in life no matter what race we are. The candidate that's gone through the most **** and is still able to be competitive is the more qualified. I'm not saying this cuz I'm white. I'm a minority too, but I've had to work for everything I have now. This freebee admission is ridiculous.

 

[staphaureus]

While I can understand and respect your position and opinion I do not necessarily agree with you. I may be a white male, but I did not grow up in ideal circumstances. I worked my ass off to get where I am today and I don't feel it is fair for someone to get special treatment just becuase of the color of their skin. You are just the same as me, same brain, arms, legs, thought processes...so give me a convincing argument as to why you deserve special treatment. I had plenty of brilliant african american friends in school that deserved to get into any program they applied because they worked hard and performed.

I undrstand that prejudice is still prevalent in society, but tell me how giving special treatment to "minorities" is different than taking it from them...Prejudice is prejudice, no matter how you slice it.

well first of all, we dont' live in an ideal world so it's difficult to be ideal and still maintain equality. But that's just personal opinion. You assume that admission committee and the school try to increased diversity for the benefit of the individual applicant. But the way I see it, it's for the good of the people in society. We live in a prejudice world with distrust and history has a major role in it and if someone feel more comfortable seeing an african american doctor, a latin doctor, a white doctor, an asian doctor, a middle east doctor, then society should at least try to make those providers available somewhere.

By the way, I agree that standardize score should theoretically (and i emphasize theoretically) allow school to select the best potential canidate. But a standardize score does not indicate competency. Admission standard have risen in the pass 10 years, it doesn't mean that the providers 10 years ago are any less competent than we are today. If you're competent enough to perform the job, the who gives a **** what your DAT score is 10 yrs ago. I also think that admission committee don't take solely GPA, DAT score into consideration. I think that they also look at qualities of the candidate which they feel will have the biggest benifit service to their communities. This is nitch that having the quality of being a person of color will serve. Like I said, some patients are judgemental and bias. Idealy, everyone should trust a white doctor distributing drugs and service that they promise to be benificial to the patients, but this is not the case and society have to deal with that flaw.

*rambling end*

 

[amartins02]

Dude, seriously, she just said she got in because she is black and they gave her an in even though her scores are low. Yea, dental schools need more minorities, but ones that deserve to be there. And, scholorships should be given, which I am sure there are, that aid in the school debt of minorities in order to get them set after dental school.

No one would let a caucasian with below average scores fly a $20 million dollar jet so why would they let a minority with below average score do it. Get my drift? No matter how you play the cards...it ain't right.

 

[staphaureus]

Dude, seriously, she just said she got in because she is black and they gave her an in even though her scores are low. Yea, dental schools need more minorities, but ones that deserve to be there. And, scholorships should be given, which I am sure there are, that aid in the school debt of minorities in order to get them set after dental school.

No one would let a caucasian with below average scores fly a $20 million dollar jet so why would they let a minority with below average score do it. Get my drift? No matter how you play the cards...it ain't right.

DUDE!, you miss the point I was trying to make. Just because someone has below average numbers, doesn't mean that they will not be a competent provider. I will use your analogy to help you understand. If everyone decide to apply to fly school and raise the average admission standard because there are more to select from (b/c there are more applicants), doesn't mean that the current "below" average (based on the new admission standard) would be any less competent or flying

It's an issue of fairness, not competency. You know nothing about this applicant and you assume that she will not make a good dentist. She may have never set foot in a dental office before... or she maybe have worked as a dental hygenist for the past 10 years and learned everything she needed to learn, but just missing a diploma. I think it's unreasonable to assume that the dental school will invest money, time, and resource to applicants who they feel will not be a competent provider. No institution would be so wasteful.

By the way, I hate that so many people respond to this applicant (not directed at you) with the assumption that all minorities students have below average scores. 👎

 

[billyjones]

The problem that is being discussed is far greater than someone getting into dental school or not.

Whether you give someone additional privilages based on their race, or take away someone's privilages based on their race, it is the same. It is still racism. And although someone may rationalize "how am I making the world worse by helping this person out? It may not be perfectly fair, but at least I'm doing something good for some underrepresented minority." this however is not the case. Its like the a balancing act, racism still exists today, but it is as much Afirmative Action's fault as it is prejeduce's.

Lets take an example: Lets say there is a "majority" man that works in the police force, and he is due for a promotion, but a "minority" man with less experience takes his promotion because of this minority status(this happend to my friend's dad). Naturally there will be feelings of anamosity in that situation. Unfortunately often times it is directed to the "minority" instead of the person that made the decision. I am not suggesting it is right to feel anamosity toward that person, but that this situation naturally fosters racist thoughts in some people.

However, if you completely remove race from the equation, one may accuse someone of being racist, but the argument wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Who ever the official is can show plain evidence for the reason the other person was able to to surpass him.

 

[maksidaa]

i've wondered for a while now how long it would take before there was a considerable discussion on this topic. i've struggled with these issues in my mind for a while and it's interesting to see what others are thinking. is this all about getting better service to poor communities, or making up for the past, or is it about leveling the playing field or none or all of those things? i dunno... i'd like to ask an adcom.

 

[lnsip9reg]

Applicants in whatever field they apply to should always be aiming to be a "sure bet" for acceptance. They should aim to be the cream of the crop, and not a marginal candidate. Whether you are a disadvantaged minority, or part of the majority who complain of reverse discrimination, my question to you is why aren't you working on your application so that the admissions committee will accept you regardless? You are arguing about being the 150th admittee, behind the 149 people accepted before you.

Instead of attributing one's acceptance to a "higher power" out of one's control, in this case the affirmative action standards of a particular institution, let's not give up our agency. Each and everyone of us does have a large say in whether we get accepted or not, regardless of the color of our skin.

And honestly I'd rather have a supposedly slightly more difficult admissions process than to deal with the uphill battle disadvantaged minority dentists, physicians and surgeons will face once they actually start practicing. As evidenced by some of the above comments, the general population has a mistaken view that some minority doctors aren't as qualified. Can you imagine how frustrating _that_ will be? For example to be a well qualified female black doctor, and have your patient request someone else? It happens, it sucks, it's life.

Finally my two-cents specifically regarding affirmative action. I do not deny that many disadvantaged minorities face an uphill struggle. BUT has the actual practice of affirmative action admissions helped more than just a thin sliver of that population? I have a feeling that this supposed "leveling of the playing field" can actually hamper the progress of disadvantaged minorities, and engender resentment from the majority. Look around and seriously ask yourself has affirmative action helped? I believe that the success stories would have been successful regardless. Sometimes it's the hard times and obstacles that make someone shine even brighter.

I believe the answer does not come from government mandate (politicians suck anyway) nor from educational institutions. It'll come from individual's own hard work, and the immediate community surrounding them (family, friends, mentors, teachers) that are essential to succeeding in this world.

 

[DDSY]

And my two-cents specifically regarding affirmative action. I do not deny that many disadvantaged minorities face an uphill struggle. BUT has the actual practice of affirmative action admissions helped more than just a thin sliver of that population? I have a feeling that this supposed "leveling of the playing field" can actually hamper the progress of disadvantaged minorities, and engender resentment from the majority. Look around and seriously ask yourself has affirmative action helped? I believe that the success stories would have been successful regardless. Sometimes it's the hard times and obstacles that make someone shine even brighter.

I must hand it to you. That is a pretty good argument. Sometimes, it is knowing that you have struggled and survived despite odds that makes you a much stronger person/provider.

As for AA not helping, you have a valid argument that it may in fact hinder progress, who knows? . . . it may discourage underrep minorities and make them feel and think inferiorly of themselves and continue the vicious cycle. However, I do think that a lot of them are becoming successful, especially black females (based on my observations) and if you watch some of those medical shows, you do see a lot of black physicians. I think the trend is starting to change from years ago where a typical dental/med school is predominantly male and white.

 

[MrZ123]

AA should be abolished as slavery was abolished.

To say AA is necessary because we need minority dentists is a complete crap. Minorities should not have the standards lowered for diversity.

Whoever has a better application should get into dental school, and any other type of school for that matter.

It is as simple as that.

 

[amartins02]

DUDE!, you miss the point I was trying to make. Just because someone has below average numbers, doesn't mean that they will not be a competent provider. I will use your analogy to help you understand. If everyone decide to apply to fly school and raise the average admission standard because there are more to select from (b/c there are more applicants), doesn't mean that the current "below" average (based on the new admission standard) would be any less competent or flying

It's an issue of fairness, not competency. You know nothing about this applicant and you assume that she will not make a good dentist. She may have never set foot in a dental office before... or she maybe have worked as a dental hygenist for the past 10 years and learned everything she needed to learn, but just missing a diploma. I think it's unreasonable to assume that the dental school will invest money, time, and resource to applicants who they feel will not be a competent provider. No institution would be so wasteful.

By the way, I hate that so many people respond to this applicant (not directed at you) with the assumption that all minorities students have below average scores. 👎

You make a good point. But let's use the example again. We are smarter today than we were let's say 30 years ago. So standards are set higher. You're saying that it's ok to let someone, who was standard 30 years ago, be on the same playing field as someone of this day and age? That is LOWERING THE STANDARD!

I only assume she has below average scores because of her DAT, because I can't base it on her GPA alone because that means nothing. I know you didn't direct it at me but I don't think all minorities have below average scores just that if they do then they shouldn't let skin color factor into acceptance.

Our social society is complicated. AA works this way. There was racism so less opportunities for let's say African Americans. Less money means they can only afford the "worse" neighborhoods in a city. Less money for schools so they don't get the quality education that whites and other minorities may have gotten who can afford to live near better school systems. So a helping hand is offered, via acceptance or tutoring etc, to help them achieve what others can. It's alot more complicated than that but thats just a sample of it. So....what happens to the poor white kids in the same shoes, or the darker caucasian or malado kids or the white miorities in certain areas like a small community of Russians. What if a Russian kid wants to help his community then what....

 

[lnsip9reg]

Honestly when I was in finance, the smartest person on the floor was the head office assistant, who happened to be a black female. While she didn't have the title of some of my immediate bosses, I can tell you she did a hell of a lot more, did it competently (which can actually be surprisingly hard to find in the real world), and more vital to the functioning of that group. Also my lab partner this summer was also a black female, and easily brighter than me.

I just try and imagine how differently they would be viewed if affirmative action didn't exist? Because I believe they would've been successful regardless. And instead of having people write-off their success as affirmative action cases, we'd be amazed at what they've done to succeed! Our country would be "discovering" this groups of hard-working, over-achievers who had been overlooked.

One of the most unfortunate things to arise out of affirmative action is the distancing between racial groups, in particular whites and blacks. Asians.. we keep a low profile 😛 .

All this argument does is give people another group to be angry at, to blame their problems at. It allows people to view each other as a color instead of a person. It's just group identity, the submergence of the individual. And then we get manipulated by politicians and demagogues.

[edit]
Also some words of wisdom from a previous pastor of mine: No one said life was fair. No one said life is easy, in fact it's quite hard!

So to both sides crying foul over affirmative action, the argument of fairness doesn't really work. Instead of worrying how society should change, how government of colleges should do this or that, do what's actually under your control. In your day to day interactions, treat every person you come across as a person and not as an object. The initial step in doing wrong to any person or group is by taking their humanity away in the first place. That is how you make a difference.

 

[DDSY]

One of the most unfortunate things to arise out of affirmative action is the distancing between racial groups, in particular whites and blacks. Asians.. we keep a low profile 😛 .

All this argument does is give people another group to be angry at, to blame their problems at. It allows people to view each other as a color instead of a person. It's just group identity, the submergence of the individual. And then we get manipulated by politicians and demagogues.

Yep, to think that America is a melting pot. I still think that it is more of a mosaic than a melting pot. To see completely black neigbhorhoods, interspersed with competely white ones, then hispanic ones, then asian ones. I'm not saying that this is bad. . . racial groups identify with each other more . . . but it is reality

 

[aphistis]

Play nice, people. Energetic, heated discussion is great. Just keep it civil, please.

 

[smileyes]

I just have to say, this is the most interesting thread EVER! Keep it up.

Getting a little off topic, how did asian american minorities get to be over represented w/o being represented by affirmative action in the dental industry?

 

[in her drawer]

I just have to say, this is the most interesting thread EVER! Keep it up.

Getting a little off topic, how did asian american minorities get to be over represented w/o being represented by affirmative action in the dental industry?

Asians are technically not minorities.

 

[lnsip9reg]

Well first of all we have to distinguish between the various Asian-American groups. As we do have disadvantaged, underrepresented groups in there as well (specfically some of the SE Asian nationalities, as many are refugees). Fortunately some institutions are realizing that there are different needs that need to be addressed from these communities.

The groups that have done particularly well are South Asians (I just stand in awe of South Asians and their accomplishments in this country), Chinese, Japanese, Korean and now Vietnamese Americans.

Starting in the 1960's, Asians were beneficiaries of the Civil Rights movement as the country quota system for immigration into America was removed. At that time due to various instabilities in Asia (India v Pakistan, China and the Great Leap Forward, the Korean War), the well-educated of those countries left en masse, a brain drain in effect, and the US benefitted. They carried with them from their home countries a high esteem for education. (e.g., in India they created an Indian Institute of Technology in the 1950's modelled exactly after MIT, and IIT actually has the 2nd highest number of graduate students at MIT today. The Confucian countries have always had a tradition of national exams.)

Hence Asians and Asian-Americans will spend a disproportianate share of their family income on educating their kids. And Asian-American kids oftentimes benefit from having two educated adults which provide a good environment, and who knows, possibly good genes too.

Asian-American parents overly encourage their kids to mainly stick with the technology, science and medical sectors as their is more of a merit based measurement there. If you're better, and work harder, you'll most likely be rewarded. That isn't always the case in other fields. Dentistry is one of those fields where what you put into will determine what you get out of it, great no?

I qualify my quick explanation, realizing I probably glossed over large amounts of history. One more thing I'd like to add is that while certain Asians are indeed 3rd, 4th or even 5th generation in this country, the vast majority are still 1st and 2nd generation, in other words recent immigrants. I feel confident that a lot of the tensions and misunderstandings between Asian-Americans and other minority groups was a result of just being too new and not understanding enough. We are just another chapter in America's immigrant story, and we're hopefully becoming well integrated with the whole. While you will see some insular Asian communities, you are also increasingly seeing Asian-Americans become part of mainstream America 😀

 

[litldime]

I think its cool that this subject is being discussed.

I'm African American but I'm not using that as a crutch or relying on that to get myself into dental school.
If I get accepted because of that, hey, I won't knock it but I'm using my brain and zeal for dentistry to get me there.

Dental schools look at an applicant's whole package and unfortunately, race is part of that.

There is definately a gap in secondary school education in this country and unfortunately, it seems like it affects the "black"/ "minority" schools. I'm talking about high school. I know first hand because I went to a "white" high school which was exemplary and I have tutored at a "black" high school which was on the verge of being shut down.

But once you're are in undergrad, I think the playing field is more level. An institution of higher learning has certain guidelines to be considered accredited and whether white, black, Asian, etc- the standard applies to all.

Graduate school shouldn't be highly based on ethnicity but then I understand that minorities are under-represented in the health care industry.

Its a slippery slope and unfortunately, I don't think it can be fixed.

But 16s on the dat across? I'm sorry? In my opinion, its pathetic! What school was this?
I'm shooting for 25s!
Take care,
LD

 

[Pilot Mike]

I think its cool that this subject is being discussed.

I'm African American but I'm not using that as a crutch or relying on that to get myself into dental school.
If I get accepted because of that, hey, I won't knock it but I'm using my brain and zeal for dentistry to get me there.

Dental schools look at an applicant's whole package and unfortunately, race is part of that.

There is definately a gap in secondary school education in this country and unfortunately, it seems like it affects the "black"/ "minority" schools. I'm talking about high school. I know first hand because I went to a "white" high school which was exemplary and I have tutored at a "black" high school which was on the verge of being shut down.

But once you're are in undergrad, I think the playing field is more level. An institution of higher learning has certain guidelines to be considered accredited and whether white, black, Asian, etc- the standard applies to all.

Graduate school shouldn't be highly based on ethnicity but then I understand that minorities are under-represented in the health care industry.

Its a slippery slope and unfortunately, I don't think it can be fixed.

But 16s on the dat across? I'm sorry? In my opinion, its pathetic! What school was this?
I'm shooting for 25s!
Take care,
LD

Well said!

 

[997GT3]

Wow now I know how to generalize dentists: By race. Same for physicians. Would you rather have a more than qualified doctor, or one that barely made it into admissions because he/she was a minority, when a more competent Asian could've taken that seat?

 

[SirShagaLot]

a 21 on the act isn't good score, or even close.

i got hammered the night before, lost my license, and was late and slept a little during the test and still pulled a 24.......i think the standard should be set at least above a 21 on the ACT.😎

In the words of Rob Cordry...."COME ON!??!!"

 

[lnsip9reg]

I'll take it you're being sarcastic or facetious. FYI, sometimes it's hard to tell when you can't see the person's face or hear their intonation.

 

[Blando]

what would yall think about if applications didn't include boxes for race or gender? do yall think that would really level out the playing field? its just a suggestion. Personally, I want to be a career dentist in the army where everyone is green, not black/white/asian/whatever/male/female. i hate racism and i just think that slots should go to the most qualified person, whether they are black/white/asian/whatever/male/female. i just met with a recruiter today and to be prequalified to receive the HPSP you need to have at least a 3.5 gpa and a 19 dat, it doesn't say anything about gender/race 🙂 I love the military! I wish there was a world where we could all view each others as equals, and not grow up having to feel better than another group just because our parents might have felt a certain way. when i say this guys, im not being racist at all, im just stating a fact, and i want that to be clear, i do think it is unfair that a minority with lower stats would get accepted over a majority with better stats considering that both have the same family/educational/financial backgrounds.. but that's life, everything happens for a reason. If they did have different family/educational/financial backgrounds that would be a different story altogether, and i think that most everyone would agree on that. I don't know whether or not i said it earlier but I do hate racism, and I hate the fact that a black person would rather see a black dentist and that a white person would rather see a white dentist, it makes me sad that this happens on a daily basis. I know i have members of my family that are racist and I can't do anything to change their minds about it. its just from years of ignorance passed down through the generations. i think that dental schools should just take the backgrounds of applicants more into consideration than the race/gender of the applicant. im just glad that i'll be a green dentist, and i'll always work on green patients 🙂 my dad lost his dad when he was only 12, and had to start working when he was 12 to help pay the bills, he was very poor when he was young, but worked really hard all the way through college and ended up becoming a physician and a lawyer. i've been very fortunate growing up, but it can also be discriminated against because i can be viewed as an overpriveliged doctors kid,who had been handed everything on a silver platter. I didn't pay attention at all when i was in school growing up and didn't learn a damn thing, and i didnt go to a fancy private school. Everything I've done in college I've really had to work for. My family history didn't help me on the DAT or my g.p.a.. I do believe that someone who had to work through college with a lower g.p.a than me could be more competitive, and i'm not complaining about it at all. I had a good life when I was young, but after undergrad. my parents are cutting me completely off. I haven't had to work during college which has been a huge blessing. But believe me, i do not want to put a smokescreen on my kids eyes about money like mine were covered while i was growing up, because it has been tough adjusting to a tight budget in school, which i've actually asked my parents to help me do. Two years ago I drove a ranger rover, now I drive an escape. Never do I want to spoil my kids like I was spoiled, because in the long run it bites you in the butt. My brother is convinced he has to make 700k a year to be happy, smokescreen. Guess what color my skin is

 

[ejcivicdee]

I'm tired of people on here assuming that AA in dental school is to give minorities a leg up because their education was deficient in some way. IT'S NOT. It's because the dental community needs minority dental professionals!!!

👍 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

First affirmative action is not just for people of color. Affirmative action also includes white women. Check out these following sites:

1. http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ite+women+statistics&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=5

2.http://fairchance.civilrights.org/research_center/details.cfm?id=18107

At any rate, let us just take a step back and not include race. Of all the minorities, women definitely need affirmative action. First, take a look at all the professional fields whether they include medical, business, or engineering women rank at the bottom in salary and in opportunities. In other words it is still a “MAN’S world”.

Secondly, I do agree that when you categorize yourself you do limit your expectations. However, the playing field must be LEVEL. It is shown repeatedly that the American educational system does NOT have a level playing field. I find that it is more economically related than race. HOWEVER, in most circumstances race does play an issue. Not at all schools but in universities across America you are more likely to be accepted if you are white. Never forget there are still many stereotypes, many people expect Asians to be smart, Hispanics to not know English and blacks to be stupid, and women to be aloof. That is just simply the case. At any rate, affirmative action was designed to level that field. In many cases, it has helped. However, I think before you start demeaning affirmative action the playing field must be LEVEL. The educational system in America is disgusting especially in the public school system. We rank the lowest behind third world countries in the Math and Sciences. If you do not believe it take a look at your graduate school of sciences, you will find mostly Asians, Indians, and Africans, not many Americans. The educational system in America needs an overhaul. In addition, the working field must be level not just for people of color but for WOMEN as well.

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

One other note about affirmative action. Affirmative action is not just about race. For example, why is it that schools will give pricier scholarships to athletes than to others? I do not think that is fair because a university wants to boost it’s finances that they give a highschool student with lower grades a scholarship just because he can toss a football. What about the other students who are smarter and not as athletic? Also, as we all know a lot of college athletes grades are ranked lower than other university students. However, because football and basketball is such a cash influx for universities they tolerate their erratic behavior and low grades. (Talk about affirmative action).

Second, we all know that female sports departments are funded less than male athletic departments. (Talk about affirmative action)
Check out these sites if you disagree:

1. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/may97/title9_5-19.html

2. http://bailiwick.lib.uiowa.edu/ge/

 

[DDSY]

First affirmative action is not just for people of color. Affirmative action also includes white women. . ..
At any rate, let us just take a step back and not include race. Of all the minorities, women definitely need affirmative action. First, take a look at all the professional fields whether they include medical, business, or engineering women rank at the bottom in salary and in opportunities. In other words it is still a “MAN’S world”.

Although I agree with you that affirmative action is not necessarily a bad thing, I do think that among all "minorities" in higher ed women are the ones that I feel are not in the minority. In fact trends do show that they are making breakthroughs not only in business (former CEO Hewlett P female, current CEO of eBay female), but especially in school. Check the link below Women outnumber and outperform men in higher education:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/aug/21/women_outnumber_outperform_men_higher_education/?education
In fact, the males are the ones that need AA and if trends continue we will see a reversal of gender roles, working females and househusbands.

 

[997GT3]

The educational system in America is disgusting especially in the public school system. We rank the lowest behind third world countries in the Math and Sciences. If you do not believe it take a look at your graduate school of sciences, you will find mostly Asians, Indians, and Africans, not many Americans. The educational system in America needs an overhaul. In addition, the working field must be level not just for people of color but for WOMEN as well.

I wonder if people in other countries like Taiwan and Singapore are just as lazy as American children. I suppose lazy as in most of them learn multiplication by age 6 or 7 and have private tutors. I suppose some schools in Europe promote play so much that they allow 3 year olds into Kindergarten. I wonder of most of them have "ADD".

 

[DDSY]

Mizuno, I looked at your links and do agree that women earn less than man despite their academic achievement. . . also in certain specialized fields such as IT and math.

Hopefully the trends will change soon as a new round of highly educated women enter the workforce. Otherwise, some may suggest that AA is needed in these fields

-->And, oh yeah, I forgot to mention, dentistry is still a male dominated field. But, if I'm not mistaken, medical schools in the country already have more females than males.

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

Secondly, I want to address another issue on affirmative action and that is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. You might ask, “How does that affect affirmative action?” Well, let me explain. As you know children of illegal immigrants are classified as American citizens. This means that they can apply to colleges for in state tuition. This is very unfair since American citizens applying to out of state schools have to pay out of state tuition. However, many localities are prohibiting schools from asking information regarding immigration status. Technically, this is a form of affirmative action. ALL AMERICAN STUDENTS NEED TO TAKE ACTION REGARDING THIS MATTER!
In addition, this includes students who overstay their visas as well.

It is unfair that tax paying Americans are required to pay out of state tuition while illegal immigrants are not. Despite the fact that they are born in America does not make them American. THEY ARE ILLEGALS. All students need to contact their local Senator and Congressman to make your views known on this issue. Keep in mind that while your tax paying parents are paying for out-of-state tuition. Illegal immigrants who are often non-tax payers are paying in-state LOWER priced tuition. Never forget this also affects financial aid and grants to American students as well. Illegal immigrants who happen to be hispanic can qualify for minority scholarships as well.

Check out these articles for more info:

1. http://www.house.gov/ed_workforce/press/press109/second/09sep/heaimm090106.htm

2. http://www.libertypetitions.com/petitions.php?id=196

*sign the petition****

3. http://www.mnforsustain.org/immg_costs_of_educating_legal_illegals_fair.htm

Nevertheless, keep in mind ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION hurts not only American students, but international students attending American schools as well. “Why should international students who legally obtain student visas, have to pay higher tuition than children of illegal aliens and illegal aliens?”

 

[_veo_]

So to both sides crying foul over affirmative action, the argument of fairness doesn't really work. Instead of worrying how society should change, how government of colleges should do this or that, do what's actually under your control. In your day to day interactions, treat every person you come across as a person and not as an object. The initial step in doing wrong to any person or group is by taking their humanity away in the first place. That is how you make a difference.

I agree 👍
As future dentists, we are going to treat many people from different backgrounds. If we have all this prejudice against them, it is not really going to work. Don't forget that racism is still present in our society, and it is a huge problem that AA won't solve. Actually, it is contributing to it as I can see from some responses...
I still believe that "minorities" have less competition because less "minorities" apply to professional schools. The same applies to women. I looked at the statistics from some school, and there were 2 times more applications from men than women. Guess what? The class is almost 50/50.. I guess those women, as minorities, had lower standard too? 😛
I don't know what university the OP is talking about, but I would think the adcoms look at the whole package before admitting anyone. I hope they pick the best cantidates. Ones that would benefit their communities and become great dentists.

 

[maksidaa]

i was thinking that if a school has to choose between 2 applicants and they are exactly the same except one is a minority (african american, female, etc) then i would choose the minority b/c it brings in someone with a different perspective. however, the majority of applicants are white, asian and indian males so it makes sense that most acceptances are given to them.
i'm also very surprised that the OP didn't see this coming. if i got into a school b/c of something like my race, i would have accepted it for sure. i can't blame anyone for taking whatever they can get when the whole process is so difficult. but to openly say to everyone that the main reason you got in was b/c of your race is definitely going to spark some fires.
so to the OP, i know you might take some of these things personally, but please understand that most people on sdn (including yourself) have worked VERY VERY hard to get to this point and to see anyone get special treatment like what you have described is hard to let slide by. some of these people are the very ones that will argue for an extra 2 or 3 points on their exams or show up at dental clinics for 10 minutes so they can put it on their application. PLEASE take into consideration that some people are really trying to see these things from you point of view and make sense of it all in a compassionate and intelligent manner.

 

[DDSY]

Secondly, I want to address another issue on affirmative action and that is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. You might ask, "How does that affect affirmative action?" Well, let me explain. As you know children of illegal immigrants are classified as American citizens. This means that they can apply to colleges for in state tuition. This is very unfair since American citizens applying to out of state schools have to pay out of state tuition. However, many localities are prohibiting schools from asking information regarding immigration status. Technically, this is a form of affirmative action. ALL AMERICAN STUDENTS NEED TO TAKE ACTION REGARDING THIS MATTER!

Yep, if they are illegal, they are illegal. America, in many ways, has the most lenient rules about illegal immigration-->reverse wouldn't be true for other countries, say illegal Americans trying to enter Mexico.

-->My feeling about the issue, however, is that many of these illegals arrive from poverty stricken conditions that make it extremely difficult for them: even trying to work for food is very hard. They risk leaving their families to work in America and sometimes they bring family members and work really hard for pennies to make a bright future for themsevles and their families.

But I do not deny that there are other immigrants who arrive from other countries and work hard, but the US has preferential policy for wealthier immigr for numerous reasons

 

[_veo_]

Yep, if they are illegal, they are illegal. America, in many ways, has the most lenient rules about illegal immigration-->reverse wouldn't be true for other countries, say illegal Americans trying to enter Mexico.

-->My feeling about the issue, however, is that many of these illegals arrive from poverty stricken conditions that make it extremely difficult for them: even trying to work for food is very hard. They risk leaving their families to work in America and sometimes they bring family members and work really hard for pennies to make a bright future for themsevles and their families.

But I do not deny that there are other immigrants who arrive from other countries and work hard, but the US has preferential policy for wealthier ppl for numerous reasons

"America" is the whole continent! And I totally disagree with you, illegals don't have an easy time trying to come to this country. I'm not saying it is right, but it is not what you are making it sound.

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

I agree that they may come from poverty areas. But, we have poor American students who need help as well. But, my favorite scenario is this:

What if you worked everyday and provided for your family. However, a poor family moves in next door and decides to steal from your garden, break into your house and eat all of your food, and decides to drive your car everyday. However, this person does not ask your permission at all. They just come over and take it. "Would you still believe that they deserve a handout?"

 

[DDSY]

"America" is the whole continent! And I totally disagree with you, illegals don't have an easy time trying to come to this country. I'm not saying it is right, but it is not what you are making it sound.

Sorry, I meant US (for America). Also when I say US has the most lenient rules regarding ill immg, I mean compared to other countries. Illegals still receive some benefits in US. But other countries would completely block them out

Also I make no judgement in determining whether ill imm is right, however I recognize the hardships that they undergo to come and live in the US

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

America does not have preferential policies for wealthier people. There are a lot of people who immigrate to America with very little or nothing. However, they do it LEGALLY. There are a lot of people here from Eastern Europe, India, China, Africa, Vietnam etc. "Do you think that they are rich?" No. Many are very poor and work low paying jobs. However, they came here legally.

 

[_veo_]

I agree that they may come from poverty areas. But, we have poor American students who need help as well. But, my favorite scenario is this:

What if you worked everyday and provided for your family. However, a poor family moves in next door and decides to steal from your garden, break into your house and eat all of your food, and decides to drive your car everyday. However, this person does not ask your permission at all. They just come over and take it. "Would you still believe that they deserve a handout?"

I think you are oversimplying with your scenerio. Illegals don't get free things, they go through very hard contitions. I know it is not right to come like that in the first place, but I don't know why everyone has the idea that just because they came here illegaly they get EVERYTHING for free.. They work hard jobs that many americans don't want to take..

 

[DDSY]

I agree that they may come from poverty areas. But, we have poor American students who need help as well. But, my favorite scenario is this:

What if you worked everyday and provided for your family. However, a poor family moves in next door and decides to steal from your garden, break into your house and eat all of your food, and decides to drive your car everyday. However, this person does not ask your permission at all. They just come over and take it. "Would you still believe that they deserve a handout?"

Yes, that is pretty tragic isn't it, I mean the part where they compete for food, housing and work against the poorer parts of society. As for them stealing, maybe it's out of necessity, but I wouldn't say all illeg do that, unless you're referring to them depriving food, shelter from the other poor

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

YOU ARE WRONG TO SAYTHAT THEY WORK MANY JOBS AMERICANS WILL NOT WORK!!

That is not true. What you really need to say is: AMERICANS WILL NOT WORK FOR SLAVE WAGES. The jobs such as landscaping, housekeeping, and restaurants AMERICANS CAN AND DO WORK THOSE JOBS. HOWEVER, AMERICANS WANT TO BE PAID FAIR AND EQUAL WAGES!!

WAKE UP!! You are quoting what the coroporations and cheap labor advocates are saying. They could care less about illegal immigration because they are making money. For instance a licensed American carpenter can make $12 an hour. But, you see illegals doing the work for $5 or $7 an hour. SO WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GET HIRED? The same for house keeping and landscaping.

SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!! ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ONLY WORK FOR CHEAP WAGES WHICH AMERICANS WILL NOT TOLERATE!!

 

[_veo_]

Sorry, I meant US (for America). Also when I say US has the most lenient rules regarding ill immg, I mean compared to other countries. Illegals still receive some benefits in US. But other countries would completely block them out

Also I make no judgement in determining whether ill imm is right, however I recognize the hardships that they undergo to come and live in the US

I'm sorry, I know that everyone here uses "America", but I'm from South America and of couse not "American", but really American.. or maybe just South American 😉

 

[_veo_]

YOU ARE WRONG TO SAYTHAT THEY WORK MANY JOBS AMERICANS WILL NOT WORK!!

That is not true. What you really need to say is: AMERICANS WILL NOT WORK FOR SLAVE WAGES. The jobs such as landscaping, housekeeping, and restaurants AMERICANS CAN AND DO WORK THOSE JOBS. HOWEVER, AMERICANS WANT TO BE PAID FAIR AND EQUAL WAGES!!

WAKE UP!! You are quoting what the coroporations and cheap labor advocates are saying. They could care less about illegal immigration because they are making money. For instance a licensed American carpenter can make $12 an hour. But, you see illegals doing the work for $5 or $7 an hour. SO WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GET HIRED? The same for house keeping and landscaping.

SO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!! ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ONLY WORK FOR CHEAP WAGES WHICH AMERICANS WILL NOT TOLERATE!!

Okay, you don't have to use caps. It is not my fault that the gov't just cares about corporations and not the citizens.

 

[MIZUNOGRL29]

ILLEGALS ARE GETTING THINGS FOR FREE!! Take a look at the school system as well as the medical system. Tax dollars supply these items of service. However, when you have a group of people who are not paying taxes and are using these services they are draining the system. Also take note if an American is making minimum wage they are paying taxes. It is a big difference to make minimum wage paying taxes and getting by tax-free. Not to mention that since you are getting tax free money, which is not documented by the IRS, you can apply for welfare because of your lack of income.

Check out these sites for more info:

1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html

2. http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ration+in+healthcare&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9


3. http://kyl.senate.gov/legis_center/border.cfm

 

[aggie-master]

I hope that my minority status can get me in somewhere.

It's hard to compete with everyone here scoring 24 on the DAT with a 4.0 gpa.

👍

 

[DDSY]

I hope that my minority status can get me in somewhere.

It's hard to compete with everyone here scoring 24 on the DAT with a 4.0 gpa.

👍

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you're definitely in the minority. . . . credentials-wise

 

[cys19]

I wonder if people in other countries like Taiwan and Singapore are just as lazy as American children. I suppose lazy as in most of them learn multiplication by age 6 or 7 and have private tutors. I suppose some schools in Europe promote play so much that they allow 3 year olds into Kindergarten. I wonder of most of them have "ADD".

Mmm. Yeah, Harvard has a lot of Singaporeans. I think they're the most preferable Asians to Admissions since their educational system is so renown. Personally I think Americans have too many excuses for not succeeding. We have it so much better than everyone else, and yet we hardly see the general Chinese population complaining.

 

[cys19]

Wow now I know how to generalize dentists: By race. Same for physicians. Would you rather have a more than qualified doctor, or one that barely made it into admissions because he/she was a minority, when a more competent Asian could've taken that seat?

pwnt

 

[DDSY]

Mmm. Yeah, Harvard has a lot of Singaporeans. I think they're the most preferable Asians to Admissions since their educational system is so renown. Personally I think Americans have too many excuses for not succeeding. We have it so much better than everyone else, and yet we hardly see the general Chinese population complaining.

Yep, if life was ideal everyone just studies and whoever is best will go to the best schools and do well in life. And I also understand Sing a very good school system. In fact, I think South Korea has the best gradeschools nowadays, Nevertheless many Asian countries have very good educational systems.

But Singapore is homogenuous, as is many other asian countries. America is a very complex country, with many different ethnic, cultural, religious groups, underserved areas, groups fighting for certain rights, etc. With so many confounding variables, sometimes its just difficult to determine a simplistic policy that will satisfy everyone

 

[RDH2DDS]

!