minority student trying to make it in the clutch !!

[medstyle]

of course, republicans are against helping the poor and social economic downtrodden as well. Its all "survival of the fittest" when you're already fit to survive.

If medical school was solely a numbers based game, there would be a lot more doctor Chang's, Park's, and Gupta's out there. So choose your poison; this way, you only lose out on the 3% or so seats that go out to "unqualified" minorities. Imagine if the floodgates were open and we didn't need to get 41 MCATs to get into Harvard (when the average is barely 34).

To my "conservative" brethren, if you want a homogenous society with whites on top, christians on top, and everyone else doing your bidding, just be honest. But don't lie and call it "democracy". Will you sing a different tune when the majority of this country is black and spanish and demand that whites recieve "anti AA" or pay reparations?.

We're a society, so we need to learn how to play together. Winning is no fun if everyone else loses all the time.

Back to studying my 5th/6th language!

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[AwaPremed]

I think people should realize that there are far more white and asian students that apply and get accepted. the number of minority applicants are very very very small. i looked on md applicants and 3 caucasian students were accepted with the stats mentioned by the OP, while only one african-american student got accepted with those stats. So for every african-american student that gets accepted with low stats, maybe 3 or 4 or more non-minority students get accepted.

 

[visualwealth]

I think your stats are on the low side... That is, at my state school I know a lot of black students( male and felmale) with GPA's that are between 3.8 and 4.0. I think that if you improve your mcat to 26+ you will get into a medical school because you have excellent extracurricular activities but, forget about the ivy league caliber schools...


VW

 

[twicetenturns]

The question, then, is should we be rewarding a person for pure luck (being the correct skin color for admissions) in the sense that the person did not do anything to earn it?

Yeah, if we improve the face of medicine as a whole by doing so. Remember, bringing more underrepresented minorities into medicine is important.

Should I have gotten into UCI as an undergrad any easier because I'm under represented at UCI (only about 30% of UCI is white, which is clearly not how whites are represented in society [I love using AA/URM favortism polices against them]?

No, we are not talking about percentages at a school, rather as a whole, where whites are quite well represented in universities in this country

Should I get a bonus because I am 3rd generation American [great grandparents on my father's side immigrated here from Poland]?

I don't know, how is your Polish? Do you feel that there is a group out there that is underserved and underrepresented that you could better serve because of the common bond of ethnicity? You might have a tougher time than our existing URMs.

Conversly, should a person whos parents lived here longer, or isn't the right skin color for the adcom's liking be at a disadvantage [if you put someone at an advantage, then someone else has to be at a disadvantage] because of something that they can neither affect, change, or ask for it?

This isn't about the right skin color for the adcom's liking as you put it. It is about what is better for medicine. Sure if you don't have anything that makes you particularly desireable whether you can control it or not, you are at a disadvantage. Admissions is not just about grades, it is about a slew of other things too. All my interviewers ask about my childhood and upbringing. I may be white, but I was raised by immigrant parents in the swamp. Does this put me at an advantage over other white kids who just happened to be raised in suburbia, perhaps, but they couldn't control that could they. Face it, factors out of our control affect this process because by accident or otherwise they turn us into the applicants we are.

Is the affirmative action canidate that would not get it if it wasn't for AA [Only people who AA helps are those that couldn't get in otherwise. The ones that deserved it on their merit (GPA, MCAT, expierence, research, etc) would get in without it] wrong for using AA to get in? No.

Is any process that systematically discrimanates against applicants because they are not the right skin color/ethnic background inheritantly wrong and evil? Yes.

This isn't discrimination, in fact, it is the opposite of discrimination. Being an overrepresented minority is not a penalty in the admissions game. Being underrepresented is an advantage. The error in your thinking is that race/ethnicity doesn't matter. It has very real implications on doctoring.

Just because its happening to whites and not blacks/browns/tans (I figure if I'm going to use color for one, I should use it for all. Consistency is nice) does not make it right or morally acceptable.

Another thing to ponder, is applicantion rates simular to the national ethnic makeup? Should ADCOMs compromise the integrity of the admissions process just because the lack of one group's applicantion rate necessitates lowering the standards for people of the right skin pigment?

Are groups underrepresented because they are not applying or because of some outside force?

Last question, how much black/tan do I need to have in me to be special and get the advantage? Can I get it from transfusions from other ethnicities? Should I go pure blood or go for a mixture of different ethnicites?

/sarcasm_last_set_of_questions_at_late_at_night

I could touch on these too, but I would just be repeating myself.

 

[Rendar5]

Yeah, if we improve the face of medicine as a whole by doing so. Remember, bringing more underrepresented minorities into medicine is important.



No, we are not talking about percentages at a school, rather as a whole, where whites are quite well represented in universities in this country




I don't know, how is your Polish? Do you feel that there is a group out there that is underserved and underrepresented that you could better serve because of the common bond of ethnicity? You might have a tougher time than our existing URMs.



This isn't about the right skin color for the adcom's liking as you put it. It is about what is better for medicine. Sure if you don't have anything that makes you particularly desireable whether you can control it or not, you are at a disadvantage. Admissions is not just about grades, it is about a slew of other things too. All my interviewers ask about my childhood and upbringing. I may be white, but I was raised by immigrant parents in the swamp. Does this put me at an advantage over other white kids who just happened to be raised in suburbia, perhaps, but they couldn't control that could they. Face it, factors out of our control affect this process because by accident or otherwise they turn us into the applicants we are.



This isn't discrimination, in fact, it is the opposite of discrimination. Being an overrepresented minority is not a penalty in the admissions game. Being underrepresented is an advantage. The error in your thinking is that race/ethnicity doesn't matter. It has very real implications on doctoring.



I could touch on these too, but I would just be repeating myself.

There are plenty of advantages that people can have just simply based on who they're born as. I was born in NY. I get advantages in applying to NY schools even though it can't be helped where I was born (in an underrepresented county no less, although I live in the nicer area of it and I never noticed a lack of doctors). I live in a middle class family with educated parents who are teachers. That's a huge advantage I had. I didn't need to push myself to better my circumstances at all. They could easily afford to put me into academic programs that I qualified for. I could easily get prep courses.

Now if there were better data available in these sorts of things, I think that AA could go a step further and instead of having 4 major under-represented groups in medicine, it could more specifically target underrepresented people from under-represented communities with underrepresented circumstances. This would eventually equalize things out. So there is no need for it. I mean, look at how the percentage of women applicants came to equal the percentage of woman acceptances over the past couple decades.

The only thing AA should never do for medicine is to take in unqualified people. A score of 22 on an MCAT is not necessarily unqualified, but it isn't good and you'd have to have a lot more going for you to get in (like 1000 volunteer hours?! holy ****!). When AA pulls in someone who's stats and abilities and drive would not be able to get them into an FMG or an osteopathic school, then it is BS.

Can someone find some stats on how many really unqualified people have gotten into allopathic schools over the past few years. I honestly want to see what percentage of total medical school students have gotten bumped because of unqualified applicants getting in through AA. Because whatever that is, it does need to change.

 

[jiy76]

ya i have no problem with AA getting a kid with average stats or slightly below stats into schools but you are way below avg numbers wise if you retook the mcat and got a 28 or higher than we would be talking. Unfortuantely many of us are finding out that if you dont have the numbers you cant get in no matter what volunteering you have.(if you did something very few people have done you may get an interview but getting in is still debatable. Besides aren't there enough minorities with avg or slightly below avg stats to admit?? AA is one thing but this is ridculous. ....Then again so is a white kid with nelson rockefeller as a father giving huge donations to get his dumb ass son into schools. The system sucks I guess.

 

[45408]

is there anyone out there who has similiar credentials as i do? i am a african-american male with a 3.2 GPA and 22 MCAT. I have 1.5 years of research experience with over 1000 hours of clinical experience dealing directly with patient care, not to mention a slew of extracurricular and volunteer activities. does anyone know someone who has gotten in with these stats? If so, what did they do to strengthen there application? Any suggestions on where to apply?

Is that the first time you've taken the MCAT? I'd go at it again and score at least several points higher. If you were to apply with a ~26, you'd stand a good chance, but a 22 makes your odds pretty steep.`

 

[45408]

I have never heard one good argument to support the discrimination that is known as affirmative action.

Basically, AA is telling people with the correct color that they are too stupid to make it because of their skin pigment and must take a boost to get it. At least I know that if I make it, I make it because I deserved it, not because some ADCOM had to pity me because of my skin color.

A lot of you guys are missing the point. URMs are far more likely to work in underserved areas than whites and Asians are. Simply put, we don't want to go there and make that kind of income, but many URMs are. Somebody has to serve those areas, and if it takes a push to get somebody who will do it, then who cares?

If you're whining that somebody else "took your spot," it was because your own application sucked. Worry about yourself and get in on your own merit. I don't think our current system is the best, but e-complaining won't help.

 

[cheapdate]

I'm just wondering....

How come ASIANS are not considered Minorities? The black population is higher than the asian population in the U.S. I believe. It's just that most go to college.

I think affirmative action is just unfair.

A question to the hispanics and blacks......do you feel that you will get in because of your skin color/race or because you got in like everyone else?

How do you feel about that? Compared to another person who has wanted to be a physician their who life, president of so and so org, avg MCAT and GPA but did not get in but you, with a 3.2 (could've studied a bit more), 22 MCAT got in. How do you think you'll do in med school?

This just pisses me off. I'm not trying to be racist or mean. I'm just totally against this.

Asian, even though a minority in the general population, is over-represented in the science and medical field. That's why asian are not considered as a minority when applied for science grad school or med schoo.

As for affirmative action... Affirmitive action is not even close to addressing inequality. As for performance in medical school, I think you need to to know the basic sciences and recognize pattern, but you don't have to be a genius to do well as a doctor. Go to grad school of you are so proud of your intellect. I was told once that, a doctor is a mechanic of the body.. I think this is true in some sense. Stop whining, a few people people admitting into medical school is not going to ruin your life.

 

[Rendar5]

ya i have no problem with AA getting a kid with average stats or slightly below stats into schools but you are way below avg numbers wise if you retook the mcat and got a 28 or higher than we would be talking. Unfortuantely many of us are finding out that if you dont have the numbers you cant get in no matter what volunteering you have.(if you did something very few people have done you may get an interview but getting in is still debatable. Besides aren't there enough minorities with avg or slightly below avg stats to admit?? AA is one thing but this is ridculous. ....Then again so is a white kid with nelson rockefeller as a father giving huge donations to get his dumb ass son into schools. The system sucks I guess.

28 is the average med school applicant. you need to go down at least a standard deviation before I'd consider someone underqualified. I mean, the average MCAT test taker is smart and does better than half of everyone and gets a 24. And I think the acceptance rate for med schools is 50% of those who apply. 22 is a poor MCAT score for a med school applicant, no doubt, but I don't see it making someone not qualified to be a doctor in and of itself.

EDIT: still, I'd be wary of anyone with a 22 getting in to a US program. they would have to show a lot in other areas. and when I say a lot, I mean something really extraordinary. I mean, only 4 people on mdapplicants got in with that score according to someone, right? I'd say someone who can pass the boards should at least be able to score a 24 if they tried again.

 

[jiy76]

I never said he would not make a good doctor he may make an outstanding doctor but so would thousands of others who have much better stats than him and still didnt get in. A guy with a 3.4 and 27 will have a tough time getting in let alone someone with a 3.2 and a 22. He may become an outstanding physician but unfortunately the admissions process is a numbers game and i don't think his numbers will allow him to get in. If AA helps him get in with those numbers more power to him I have nothing against it I wish i could have it but the system still stinks.