Minority Vet Students

[IvyLynx]

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Are we looked at differently? This keeps running through my head because my mentor (a professor) over at the NCSU CVM was asking me about the supplemental questions back before they were due. I had mentioned that I had no idea what a good answer for 'how I was going to contribute to the class' would be, since I wasn't in it yet! Well, he basically said that it was a very important question for me to answer since I'm a minority, and they want to make sure I'll be able to cope and blah blah.

Has anyone else thought about this? I know NCSU is all about diversity, but do they even look at that kinda info before they make final decisions? I guess this kind of answers my question, but I don't see how they do it...

Diversity Diversity, i.e., those unique attributes that a prospective veterinary medical student contributes to the NC State College of Veterinary Medicine or to the veterinary medical profession, is an important consideration during the selection of prospective veterinary medical students.*
Examples of those unique attributes include, but are not limited to (alphabetical order):
--Career interest in area with national shortage
--Graduate school course work and graduate degrees (master and doctorate-level)
--North Carolina residency (3 or more years duration)
--Other career and/or life experiences
--Personal/economic hardship
--Under-represented minority group
--Under-represented North Carolina counties

 

[dreamvet]

i think it depends on what you bring to the table.
I was asked at one of my interviews why i checked the "spanish" box as my language.

bringing up that I am the first born in america in my fam, as well as the usefulness of being quad lingual in the vet clinic is def a plus (I am learning hebrew and french).

 

[Malhi]

I think a lot of the vet schools are moving towards getting a diverse class, which I think is great for us, minority students.

Being a non-traditional student (graphic designer), Indian (as in from India), I mentioned that I have diverse (veterinary and life) experiences and a global outlook. I am sure that it helped me stand out. 🙂

 

[CatVet2Be]

I think it helped me stand out as well (I'm bilingual and originally from south america). In my interview I talked about work I've done that targets underserved communities and work I've done overseas to help control animal populations and bring medical care to animals that will probably never see a vet again. One of my big goals is to be involved in "doctors without borders" type programs (only with 4 legged vs 2 legged critters). My tie to another culture fuels a lot of my interests and I think gives me a unique perspective to the way many people view animals.

Though I'm not sure how being a minority would give you any problems coping this far into your education. Early on I can see adjustment problems but I think most people that have gotten this far aren't hindered but rather strengthened by their experiences.

 

[Pandacinny]

as well as the usefulness of being quad lingual in the vet clinic is def a plus (I am learning hebrew and french).

Quad-lingual? That is SO COOL. I wish I spoke more than one language! It really is useful.

 

[sumstorm]

What does it take for you to be considered bi, tri, X-lingual? I can speak and understand several languages, but I don't really consider myself fluent in any of them, because it takes some effort for me to communicate....and I am horrible...if I don't know a word in Spanish, but I do in Thai or Japanese, I will end up thinking of the word in those languages.

 

[CatVet2Be]

I think if you can hold a resonably lengthy conversation in another language and read/write in it then you can be considered bi/tri/etc..lingual. If you can think in another language then you're fluent. And by "think" I mean you don't need to translate in your head first, your thoughts can flow in that language. I speak a little french and can read reasonable well in most latin based languages but I'm far from being anything other than bilingual. Though my cousin said if I learn some portuguese he'll teach me some curse words 😀. Little things amuse me.

 

[sumstorm]

I am pretty close to fluent in Japanese (at least, when I actually start talking!) Spanish I can handle anything...but it isn't necessarily pretty. I can speak enough portugese to talk at the docks. Thai....well, I like Thai, its a fun language. What is horrible is that I am not good at translations (especially written....Kanji is evil)...but if I go anywhere else for any length of time, I pick up the language very quickly.

 

[david594]

Lets not forget one of the biggest underrepresented groups of applicants. While the general population is roughly 50% male and 50% female the applicant pool from this past cycle was 79.44% female, 20.44% male and .12% other(???).

We need to be doing more to encourage male applicants!

 

[IvyLynx]

I don't know. I don't think being a minority gives me any to add. I am very American, so that isn't particularly interesting. That's why I was surprised he brought it up.

I think if I hadn't of transferred schools during high school I would be fluent in french now. Irritates me so much! Being a polyglot would be so freaking awesome. How do you go about learning a foreign language when you're not studying it in school (ie have someone to teach you) nor have anyone to practice with?

 

[sumstorm]

There is an active spanish-speaking population in much of NC. I have also found clumps of german and swedish speakers, along with a small jewish population that speak hebrew. The easiest way, in my opinion, are books and audio tapes (and/or computer programs) and craigslist. Many people enjoy teaching thier language to others, especially older individuals who crave some company.

 

[redsteven]

Lets not forget one of the biggest underrepresented groups of applicants. While the general population is roughly 50% male and 50% female the applicant pool from this past cycle was 79.44% female, 20.44% male and .12% other(???).

We need to be doing more to encourage male applicants!

I think we need to encourage the .12% other applicants.

 

[mekia02]

Are we looked at differently? This keeps running through my head because my mentor (a professor) over at the NCSU CVM was asking me about the supplemental questions back before they were due. I had mentioned that I had no idea what a good answer for 'how I was going to contribute to the class' would be, since I wasn't in it yet! Well, he basically said that it was a very important question for me to answer since I'm a minority, and they want to make sure I'll be able to cope and blah blah.

Has anyone else thought about this? I know NCSU is all about diversity, but do they even look at that kinda info before they make final decisions? I guess this kind of answers my question, but I don't see how they do it...

The part in bold black really had nothing to do with minority/perception etc., it is a very important question that is a popular interview question for applicants of all races and ethnic groups. You should be able to come up with some attributes about yourself that would make you a benefit to any class ( this is also a common employment interview question btw) or else why should they admit you. You don't have to be in the class to answer this. But you REALLY need to come up with an answer to this before you interview not having an answer could worry interviewers b/c it would seem like you had not put enough thought into what vet school entails and you might not be as prepared as the next applicant who has thought about this and can answer the Q.

The part in bold green is odd just because he said or implied that this question is more important for a minority students than a non-minority. Although from experience I can tell you yes there seems to be some kind of implication (of course this is not with everyone but I think many people) that the vet school experience might be harder for a minority student than other students. Comments like this I think come from people who mean well and genuinely just want to be sure that you are prepared not only for the academic challenges but other challenges that could come with possibly being the only minority in your class, depending on where you apply. NCSU had less than 5-9% minority enrollment last time I checked the data. (data can be found at AAVMC under students and admissions -> admissions data, they changed the way they present it and have removed the names of the schools and only have the schools listed by numbers as of this year not very helpful to students, it use to be that you could see the exact number of students from various ethnic groups that were admitted to each school).

Don't worry too much about implications or trying to "read btwn the lines" type of stuff, you are a minority and you can't change that. You want to go to vet school, go for it. Sometimes people will say things trying to be helpful and sometimes it is helpful, it just comes out the wrong way.

 

[Truth74]

Are we looked at differently? In the general population, yes. For a vet school application, not so much.

I am not familiar specifically with NCSU stats, but I can tell you that the national average for minority students, male and female has been hovering around 10%, for all underrepresented minorities matriculating to US schools, for the last 3 years (that I could find) not including the past application cycle. You can go to the AAVMC stat page for the 2008 application cycle stats and see that there are only 2 "Races" above the 2% mark applying.

So when there is a minority applying, the ad com will notice. If you choose not to put it in your personal statement or the VMCAS, that’s fine, but they will find out eventually. The supplemental for Illinois told us to ask for money for the vet school and extra seats, so I did that. It didn’t ask for diversity specific information, so I didn’t put anything in. However, I’ve had to answer the question in interview situations (job, school, internship, etc…), so I know why it is important.
The supplemental may not have been saying, tell us this, “I’ll contribute ‘cause I’m (paste race here)!” But it may benefit to say that you are used to being one of __ number of minority students in a classroom. It shows that you are aware of the issue and will not be overwhelmed. There are students that may have spent middle school, high school, and yes, college in a minority rich environment. A black student could definitely have this situation. (Even on a predominantly white campus.) The ad coms want to be sure that you will succeed if put into their offered environment, which will be decidedly white and female. Your mentor was correct.

However, that is not the only thing that the question is asking for. I’m sure there were other things that you could have put in, like:

“I worked two jobs a semester to get here, so I have a good work ethic”
“I’ve worked at various dairies and have an idea of what a dairy farmer might say about certain treatments”
“I’ve studied abroad and have observed animal care practices in other countries.” or
"Paste great unique experience you've had here)"

Those things would be unique to only you, as well.

It was just one part of many possibilities.

 

[IvyLynx]

The question asked for specific contributions, so I don't think it was asking about personality traits. My mentor agreed. I hate the question when it is asked in ways that you implied though. It feels like it's a contest of who can be most humbly arrogant.

Sumstorm, any particular computer programs you prefer? Hopefully mac friendly 😀 I'm a bit too shy to be taught by someone I don't know

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

they want to make sure I'll be able to cope and blah blah.

Because you're a minority applicant? Jeez, that sounds kind of...derogatory. I'd get pissed off if someone said that to me.....as if you're going to be less able to cope with vet school because you're a minority?

 

[DVMorBust]

I might get completely crapped on for this, but now I'm curious...

I had the completely opposite impression. . . like, that since they're looking for diversity, it's almost better to be a not-the-majority-of-applicants-like applicant. By which I mean. . . not white, not a female, not middle class upbringing . . . granted, everyone has unique life experiences that would add to diversity, but not falling into the 'mold' could work out in your favor, not be something you have to justify.

 

[Truth74]

they want to make sure I'll be able to cope and blah blah.

Because you're a minority applicant? Jeez, that sounds kind of...derogatory. I'd get pissed off if someone said that to me.....as if you're going to be less able to cope with vet school because you're a minority?

I know, but there are lots of different versions of this type of question that may burn the ego, but if you act offended they think it's your problem and you can't cope. 🙂

Oh, and I was being vague with the example answers on purpose.

 

[IvyLynx]

they want to make sure I'll be able to cope and blah blah.

Because you're a minority applicant? Jeez, that sounds kind of...derogatory. I'd get pissed off if someone said that to me.....as if you're going to be less able to cope with vet school because you're a minority?

yeah... i was definitely taken aback. after he said it i think he said something alone the lines of 'of course they're not going to ask you bluntly, but that's what they want to know. i'll be blunt with you, i'm not very pc'. obviously, he could be wrong, but he's been on enough admin committees so i took his word for it. it hadn't ever crossed my mind before he mentioned it.

 

[No Imagination]

they want to make sure I'll be able to cope and blah blah.

Because you're a minority applicant? Jeez, that sounds kind of...derogatory. I'd get pissed off if someone said that to me.....as if you're going to be less able to cope with vet school because you're a minority?

Not just quoting you here Whts, but the whole concept.

Ok, so the vet schools want to make sure you can cope with it. Perhaps because you are a minority.

Don't be offended, turn that around - My biggest problem with my previous interviews was the interviewers didn't TOUCH any of what I believed were my biggest weaknesses, and i could not address them easily. And I was prepared to address them hard.

When they make comments like that, they are showing you their hand. They are saying, "We are interested in you, but were not sure you can handle the work load (because you are a black, spanish, male, tall, blonde whatever) -- You can now easily address the issue head on.

Imagine the alternative. They secretly wonder if you, a Black/Spanish/Native American/Jew Male, can handle the work, but they dont bring it up. Its a lot harder to convince them otherwise in such a situation!

 

[mekia02]

The question asked for specific contributions, so I don't think it was asking about personality traits. My mentor agreed. I hate the question when it is asked in ways that you implied though. It feels like it's a contest of who can be most humbly arrogant.

It is not asking for personal traits your right. I'll give you my example on that Q, I didn't need to speak directly on my being a minority, they already know that because I checked the box under race. I spoke about how I come from a military family and that I am use to interacting with people of different backgrounds,race, ethnicities and religions. I mentioned that I use to work at a large research university ( I gave them the Name) from that they could conclude that it was a mostly white environment, I told them that I enjoyed it and learned alot, that would show that I was comfortable in the environment even under stress by speaking about having to facilitate work between people in higher positions than myself. Now these examples actually came from my interview but the same type of situation/examples are what you would describe and directly link it to a skill like communication in diverse environments because I have done such and such before.

Also don't think about it as arrogance. It is being confident in your experiences and skills and of course in a humble manner we should be able to talk up our "selling points". These types of personal diversity make us stand out and that is what they are looking for among all of the qualified applicants.

I know, but there are lots of different versions of this type of question that may burn the ego, but if you act offended they think it's your problem and you can't cope. 🙂

Oh, and I was being vague with the example answers on purpose.

Exactly

yeah... i was definitely taken aback. after he said it i think he said something alone the lines of 'of course they're not going to ask you bluntly, but that's what they want to know. i'll be blunt with you, i'm not very pc'. obviously, he could be wrong, but he's been on enough admin committees so i took his word for it. it hadn't ever crossed my mind before he mentioned it.

Like I said before it might have came out in a way that made you do a double take but it really is JUST THE WAY IT IS. Like the other poster posted minority applicants are about 10% of the applications however the actual number of minorities actually admitted and enrolled in most of the vet schools is much lower. Aren't you glad he spoke the truth to you and brought it to your attention so that you can think about this a little bit more. Of course this is not every one, or every interview committee but there have been article after article written about minority interest, enrollment, and retention in veterinary education and why minority admission is so low. That takes you to JVME keyword search minority. I think it is very good of a mentor to mention things like this to their minority mentees now you won't be surprised at the interview.

Not just quoting you here Whts, but the whole concept.

When they make comments like that, they are showing you their hand. They are saying, "We are interested in you, but were not sure you can handle the work load (because you are a black, spanish, male, tall, blonde whatever) -- You can now easily address the issue head on.

Imagine the alternative. They secretly wonder if you, a Black/Spanish/Native American/Jew Male, can handle the work, but they dont bring it up. Its a lot harder to convince them otherwise in such a situation!

I want to point out that it is not just the work load. Some people might still tend to think most minorities, especially Hispanic and African American applicants, tend to come from broken education systems related to poverty and other socio-economic ideas but in this day and age I really think they might be worried that many minority applicants are coming from an environment that is either very diverse or polar-use to being around people in your own ethnic group, and will end up in a very polar-predominantly white environment and then have problems coping with stress, loneliness, on top of the academic load. The truth is that most of the veterinary school in this country are predominantly white. In order to diversify these schools some one is going to have to be the lone minority until the enrollment eventually diversifies.

 

[No Imagination]

..but in this day and age I really think they might be worried that many minority applicants are coming from an environment that is either very diverse or polar-use to being around people in your own ethnic group, and will end up in a very polar-predominantly white environment and then have problems coping with stress, loneliness, on top of the academic load.

Addressing those issues as a minority applicant is part of the challenge. If you are observant enough to recognize those concerns from your interviewers, than you have an opportunity to set them straight (tell them some story about your work with ashkenazi jews if your black, Texas cattle men if your Hispanic).

Everyone has to be perceptive during an interview - Not just minorities, and ask themselves "Why wont this guy pick me?", and then address it, all in 60 min (or however long your interview is).

If your old, you need to convince them you are going and able to stick with it for 4 years

If you are young, you need to convince them you have the life experience.

If you are a women, you need to convince them you aren't going to work for 3 years, start having kids, and retire

if you are Black/Hispanic/Jewish/ - You need to convince them you are dedicated, motivated, intelligent, challenging, adaptive - Whatever you PS didn't already accomplish.

They cannot and will not bring up a lot of these concerns, that doesn't mean you cannot address them very subtly.

Just my 2 cents here - Your competing for an extremely competitive position and as minorities, there is both an advantage (desire for diversity), and disadvantage (overcoming stereotypes (I did not say nor do I mean racism here))

BTW, I personally had to address some of the issues I just talked about.

 

[sumstorm]

I want to point out that it is not just the work load. Some people might still tend to think most minorities, especially Hispanic and African American applicants, tend to come from broken education systems related to poverty and other socio-economic ideas but in this day and age I really think they might be worried that many minority applicants are coming from an environment that is either very diverse or polar-use to being around people in your own ethnic group, and will end up in a very polar-predominantly white environment and then have problems coping with stress, loneliness, on top of the academic load. The truth is that most of the veterinary school in this country are predominantly white. In order to diversify these schools some one is going to have to be the lone minority until the enrollment eventually diversifies.

I tend to agree that this may be part of some view points...and may actually be valid based on socio-economic background rather than color.

I remember reading an interview of an Asian kid who was a first generation college student and first generation American. An exceptional HS student with a perferct SAT. He was struggling his freshman year because he was attending college near home...and every time someone didn't show up for work, his father demanded that he come home and help the family business. Hard to refuse when Dad's helping pay the tuition bill. So he transferred to a college 6 hours away and went from a C student to an A student.

I know for me, my father didn't graduate HS, and my mom barely did (and was a c-d student.) I found their lack of knowledge about college hard, and thier knowledge of vet school trying (don't you just enroll and go? why are you waisting money applying? Why did you waste 4 years if you wanted to be a vet?) I get that many parents have such views, but I think it is different to have your family consider the time you spend in school as wasted and an example of being lazy, even if you are working full time while attending. I think it may just add another dimension to who the applicant is... and what additional pressures they may face.

Again, I don't think it has much to do with skin color, but enough to do with background differences, and having a chance to address others concerns are a good thing, even if those concerns aren't well-founded.

 

[IvyLynx]

Imagine the alternative. They secretly wonder if you, a Black/Spanish/Native American/Jew Male, can handle the work, but they dont bring it up. Its a lot harder to convince them otherwise in such a situation!

Hmm. True. Maybe they should just come up with a long list of anything that might cause you problems 'coping' so you can just debunk them off the bat. lol. That I think I could do.

 

[IvyLynx]

I tend to agree that this may be part of some view points...and may actually be valid based on socio-economic background rather than color.

I was thinking that too. That was a decision for me during the app process, to highlight socio-economic issues or not. I did for Davis, because I filled out their VMOP app, but I didn't for NCSU. I didn't want to come off as too whiny/needy. I'll decide whether it was a good decision when I find out from either of them I suppose.

 

[Optimistic 13]

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[IvyLynx]

I know the professor that you're speaking of. I've spoken to him myself.

I don't think anyone is saying that the ultimate purpose of the question is to weed out the poor minorities and see if they can defend themselves. What would they do? Through out the question for white females?

Obviously we are reading too much into the question. Isn't that what you are supposed to do? What will they get from this answer? How does it reflect on my personality, and my knowledge of the profession? How does it reflect on me as a person? Does this make it sound like I can handle the stress that is vet school? I think a question can have multiple purposes, but we can agree to disagree. 🙂 There are always going to be questions that highlight differences, other than career interests, and for some of us that is heavily tied to being a minority. I would think that they know this, or why even have a diversity committee? You can technically have an uber-diverse class of white females, because all white females are not the same.....but I don't think that's what they're going for. Just because it may not be 'a particularly important question' for everyone doesn't mean it isn't for some.

 

[Optimistic 13]

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