Miracles DO Happen and a COMLEX PE Emergency.

[dunkdocta]

Hello all,

TL/DR I failed the PE and need a PE spot for next week (the week of May 11 through 16). There is a high chance that I may be dropped from my currently matched residency position at a very desirable academic program if this does not happen. Please PM me if you would like to release a date for me! I will also paypal you the 150$ it costs to reschedule that business (just image capture the price when its on the screen!)

The long version:

I started out like most of you osteopathic students – observant, hopeful, bright eyed, and full of medical dreams. My medical school years were fraught with highs and lows. One exam brought me to the top of the mountain and then a week later a sobering fall to rock bottom with the results of the next midterm. My aspirations went through a similar cycle. At first I wanted to be an oncologist, but not just any oncologist. I wanted to be a pediatric oncologist. I thought my calling was saving the lives of children with cancer. Eventually that morphed into only pediatrics, then orthopedics, then orthopedic surgery, cardiology, and finally general surgery. I was terrified when I first found out that I wanted to be a surgeon and was actually going for it. I did not think I could stand up to the MD’s out there in the allopathic world. But, I remained hopeful.

Step 1 came around. My hope plummeted. I received a bad score (and I do mean bad score – not just a low score, although it was VERY low). I thought my surgical life was going to end because nobody in the allopathic world would want someone with such a low score – especially an osteopathic student with a low score. But I pressed on because I loved being in the OR so much. I loved taking care of surgical patients, I loved the hours, I loved the patient-doctor interaction, and I loved the surgeons I got to rotate with. I rotated in big name institutions. Institutions that osteopathic students have no business rotating in (or so they say). With each rotation I became more and more confident hat I was choosing the right course. I was easily leaps and bounds “better” then the top MD student on each away rotation I was on – surgical or otherwise. At some institutions I was asked to show the PGY-1’s how to close, how to open, and explain different pathologic processes as they pertain to surgery. I gained the trust of big wigs across the United States and got letters to prove it. I published papers and made a ton of friends along the way. Then I took step 2 and again plummeted into depression. Rock bottom, baby! Sure I did better than on my step 1, by 10 points. But a 10-point improvement on my previous score was nothing to celebrate. I wasn't even close to “average.” I applied to for the match and interviews were scarce. But I interviewed at some big name places that I too, was surprised to get interviews at. I had passed USMLE and COMLEX step 1 and 2, had only the PE to go. After a mistake in scheduling the PE and a plane ticket on different dates, I rescheduled and took the PE. I am done with my exams. Now I only have to wait.

Two weeks later the most incredible thing happened: I got accepted somewhere. The DO student going for allopathic surgery got accepted! The DO student with terrible scores, matched allo surgery! I lost it. There is a God. Miracles do happen. But, where? I had my suspicions based on program feedback after interviews. In fact, I was 100% positive I was going to my 4th choice and would have to move to another state because they “had to have me.” Even despite my scores. I started looking at homes to rent in that state. A week later the results came back. At 11:59 am, the match email loaded into my inbox. I opened it. My heart skipped a beat. As my eyes scanned the email for the institutions name, my heart skipped another beat. Finally, my eyes rested on their final destination. Miosis, then midriasis. My heart stopped. My mouth fell open. My knees quivered. I began to cry. First choice. FIRST CHOICE! The no-name, low score, DO student was going to his first choice allopathic residency pick. A big name academic institution that I have no business going to (or so they say). Against-all-odds. An uphill battle. Underdog. Cinderella story. Was I dreaming? Was this a movie? If it was, where was upbeat theme music?. I kept saying it to myself over and over. First choice. First choice. First choice. I was in a daze.

I immediately told everybody. Vacation plans were set. Plane tickets bought. I picked up a few gigs here and there for some extra money in the weeks leading up to residency. I received my acceptance packet from the program. Completed it and returned it. Finished all of the orientation lectures early. Submitted. I thought to myself “nothing will prevent me from reaching my goals except for myself.” For the next three weeks I am on cruise control. Reading books, watching movies, and working out. LOVING LIFE. I was still in disbelief.

Monday, May 4th. An email pops into my inbox. I read it. Something, something, failed COMLEX PE…………Wait. What? Failed the PE. I FAILED the PE??? Of all of the standardized exams I thought I would fail, the PE was NOT one of them. The life drained out of my body. Oh crap. I feel like I just hit a brick wall. Oh my gawd. I feel as though my muscles are atrophying at an incredible rate. The now accepted, at least adequate DO surgical candidate is once again brought down into the valley, this time, below the surface of the sea. I am drowning. This is not real. I immediately call my home program. I will not graduate until I pass the PE. I will not receive a diploma until I receive a passing score. I will not be able to start residency without a PE score. Blackness caves in around me. All this time I was fighting against the odds. Trying to break down the perceived allopathic walls of tyranny. Staying up later then everyone, studying more than everyone, putting myself out there, into the shark infested waters of MD surgery…. AND SURVIVING…. NO THRIVING! And now, the mother ship from which I was birthed beckons to destroy what I consider to be nothing less than a miracle – a miracle that I happened to be a part of. I wasn't ostracized by my MD brethren in medicine, but rather, I am at the door of defeat from my own. The DO world seeks to bury the accomplishments of one of their own – sort of.

I am still in disbelief. I received compliments from patients on just about every rotation I have been on. I’m paraphrasing patients here: “don’t ever change,” I hope you stay as nice as you are when you become a famous doctor,” “I haven’t met a doctor as kind and caring as you have been to me. Thank you!” I have received mostly honors on all clinical rotations (except for peds) – at big name institutions. I have received support, been given congratulations for my medical performance in many institutions by the very physicians and surgeons I have worked with – many of which said I was one of the best students they have ever worked with. When I look back on my medical school career now, at this moment in time, I think I have a lot to be proud of. I now realize that my attempts, my struggles have been validated by numerous physicians and patients. But now, as I face the possibility of this all being trumped by a failing grade on a “standardized” clinical skills exam. An exam where I am graded by people I cannot see. An exam whose result would probably enrage some of my letter writers. I have no anger, no malice towards the NBOME. Only pity. Only disappointment. Only the desire to run as far away from them as possible and never look back. Now, the solitary organization that struck me down, the organization that has taken so much of money, and that has in one large way made a mockery of my medical school career, will not help me retake the exam at an earlier date. They wont help me watch dates on the website. They wont reserve an open spot for me (but really, why should they?). They wont help the exam I do end up taking be scored any faster than the current going rate that they are all scored at – even though I could lose a residency spot. I am sunk and I realize that hindsight is 20/20 and I should have taken this exam at the end of my third year. I am currently signed up for an early June date.

So that's where I am now. I am contacting my residency program on Monday because even if I get an earlier exam date, It may be a month after July 1st that my PE is scored thanks to the 8-10 weeks grading interval that is written in stone. There is a very real possibility that I will be dropped from the residency program I was accepted to. So, if anyone has a date for next week that you can give up, I will gladly take it from you, and pay that $150 fee to reschedule your exam (just send me a screen capture of the reschedule fee – additionally private message me if you do!).

Despite what happens to me, I want you all to know this: that even against all odds, even though you are DO students, even though you may have poor or worse scores, there is still hope. These programs are looking for good people. Good STUDENTS. And that doesn't always mean a 257 step 1. You can do it, just don't let a silly exam wreck your hard work at the finish line. Always learn, always be better than you were the day before. Don't be afraid to do anything because you are a DO. You should do EVERYTHING, BECAUSE you're a DO. Go forth and concur. Obtain those dreams that you will one day be X kind of doctor. Go and do it. Be truthful, be polite, be honest. It will be difficult, the battle will be long, but you can do it. You CAN do it.

Thanks for reading!

---

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[microshar88]

Hello all,

TL/DR I failed the PE and need a PE spot for next week (the week of May 11 through 16). There is a high chance that I may be dropped from my currently matched residency position at a very desirable academic program if this does not happen. Please PM me if you would like to release a date for me! I will also paypal you the 150$ it costs to reschedule that business (just image capture the price when its on the screen!)

The long version:

I started out like most of you osteopathic students – observant, hopeful, bright eyed, and full of medical dreams. My medical school years were fraught with highs and lows. One exam brought me to the top of the mountain and then a week later a sobering fall to rock bottom with the results of the next midterm. My aspirations went through a similar cycle. At first I wanted to be an oncologist, but not just any oncologist. I wanted to be a pediatric oncologist. I thought my calling was saving the lives of children with cancer. Eventually that morphed into only pediatrics, then orthopedics, then orthopedic surgery, cardiology, and finally general surgery. I was terrified when I first found out that I wanted to be a surgeon and was actually going for it. I did not think I could stand up to the MD’s out there in the allopathic world. But, I remained hopeful.

Step 1 came around. My hope plummeted. I received a bad score (and I do mean bad score – not just a low score, although it was VERY low). I thought my surgical life was going to end because nobody in the allopathic world would want someone with such a low score – especially an osteopathic student with a low score. But I pressed on because I loved being in the OR so much. I loved taking care of surgical patients, I loved the hours, I loved the patient-doctor interaction, and I loved the surgeons I got to rotate with. I rotated in big name institutions. Institutions that osteopathic students have no business rotating in (or so they say). With each rotation I became more and more confident hat I was choosing the right course. I was easily leaps and bounds “better” then the top MD student on each away rotation I was on – surgical or otherwise. At some institutions I was asked to show the PGY-1’s how to close, how to open, and explain different pathologic processes as they pertain to surgery. I gained the trust of big wigs across the United States and got letters to prove it. I published papers and made a ton of friends along the way. Then I took step 2 and again plummeted into depression. Rock bottom, baby! Sure I did better than on my step 1, by 10 points. But a 10-point improvement on my previous score was nothing to celebrate. I wasn't even close to “average.” I applied to for the match and interviews were scarce. But I interviewed at some big name places that I too, was surprised to get interviews at. I had passed USMLE and COMLEX step 1 and 2, had only the PE to go. After a mistake in scheduling the PE and a plane ticket on different dates, I rescheduled and took the PE. I am done with my exams. Now I only have to wait.

Two weeks later the most incredible thing happened: I got accepted somewhere. The DO student going for allopathic surgery got accepted! The DO student with terrible scores, matched allo surgery! I lost it. There is a God. Miracles do happen. But, where? I had my suspicions based on program feedback after interviews. In fact, I was 100% positive I was going to my 4th choice and would have to move to another state because they “had to have me.” Even despite my scores. I started looking at homes to rent in that state. A week later the results came back. At 11:59 am, the match email loaded into my inbox. I opened it. My heart skipped a beat. As my eyes scanned the email for the institutions name, my heart skipped another beat. Finally, my eyes rested on their final destination. Miosis, then midriasis. My heart stopped. My mouth fell open. My knees quivered. I began to cry. First choice. FIRST CHOICE! The no-name, low score, DO student was going to his first choice allopathic residency pick. A big name academic institution that I have no business going to (or so they say). Against-all-odds. An uphill battle. Underdog. Cinderella story. Was I dreaming? Was this a movie? If it was, where was upbeat theme music?. I kept saying it to myself over and over. First choice. First choice. First choice. I was in a daze.

I immediately told everybody. Vacation plans were set. Plane tickets bought. I picked up a few gigs here and there for some extra money in the weeks leading up to residency. I received my acceptance packet from the program. Completed it and returned it. Finished all of the orientation lectures early. Submitted. I thought to myself “nothing will prevent me from reaching my goals except for myself.” For the next three weeks I am on cruise control. Reading books, watching movies, and working out. LOVING LIFE. I was still in disbelief.

Monday, May 4th. An email pops into my inbox. I read it. Something, something, failed COMLEX PE…………Wait. What? Failed the PE. I FAILED the PE??? Of all of the standardized exams I thought I would fail, the PE was NOT one of them. The life drained out of my body. Oh crap. I feel like I just hit a brick wall. Oh my gawd. I feel as though my muscles are atrophying at an incredible rate. The now accepted, at least adequate DO surgical candidate is once again brought down into the valley, this time, below the surface of the sea. I am drowning. This is not real. I immediately call my home program. I will not graduate until I pass the PE. I will not receive a diploma until I receive a passing score. I will not be able to start residency without a PE score. Blackness caves in around me. All this time I was fighting against the odds. Trying to break down the perceived allopathic walls of tyranny. Staying up later then everyone, studying more than everyone, putting myself out there, into the shark infested waters of MD surgery…. AND SURVIVING…. NO THRIVING! And now, the mother ship from which I was birthed beckons to destroy what I consider to be nothing less than a miracle – a miracle that I happened to be a part of. I wasn't ostracized by my MD brethren in medicine, but rather, I am at the door of defeat from my own. The DO world seeks to bury the accomplishments of one of their own – sort of.

I am still in disbelief. I received compliments from patients on just about every rotation I have been on. I’m paraphrasing patients here: “don’t ever change,” I hope you stay as nice as you are when you become a famous doctor,” “I haven’t met a doctor as kind and caring as you have been to me. Thank you!” I have received mostly honors on all clinical rotations (except for peds) – at big name institutions. I have received support, been given congratulations for my medical performance in many institutions by the very physicians and surgeons I have worked with – many of which said I was one of the best students they have ever worked with. When I look back on my medical school career now, at this moment in time, I think I have a lot to be proud of. I now realize that my attempts, my struggles have been validated by numerous physicians and patients. But now, as I face the possibility of this all being trumped by a failing grade on a “standardized” clinical skills exam. An exam where I am graded by people I cannot see. An exam whose result would probably enrage some of my letter writers. I have no anger, no malice towards the NBOME. Only pity. Only disappointment. Only the desire to run as far away from them as possible and never look back. Now, the solitary organization that struck me down, the organization that has taken so much of money, and that has in one large way made a mockery of my medical school career, will not help me retake the exam at an earlier date. They wont help me watch dates on the website. They wont reserve an open spot for me (but really, why should they?). They wont help the exam I do end up taking be scored any faster than the current going rate that they are all scored at – even though I could lose a residency spot. I am sunk and I realize that hindsight is 20/20 and I should have taken this exam at the end of my third year. I am currently signed up for an early June date.

So that's where I am now. I am contacting my residency program on Monday because even if I get an earlier exam date, It may be a month after July 1st that my PE is scored thanks to the 8-10 weeks grading interval that is written in stone. There is a very real possibility that I will be dropped from the residency program I was accepted to. So, if anyone has a date for next week that you can give up, I will gladly take it from you, and pay that $150 fee to reschedule your exam (just send me a screen capture of the reschedule fee – additionally private message me if you do!).

Despite what happens to me, I want you all to know this: that even against all odds, even though you are DO students, even though you may have poor or worse scores, there is still hope. These programs are looking for good people. Good STUDENTS. And that doesn't always mean a 257 step 1. You can do it, just don't let a silly exam wreck your hard work at the finish line. Always learn, always be better than you were the day before. Don't be afraid to do anything because you are a DO. You should do EVERYTHING, BECAUSE you're a DO. Go forth and concur. Obtain those dreams that you will one day be X kind of doctor. Go and do it. Be truthful, be polite, be honest. It will be difficult, the battle will be long, but you can do it. You CAN do it.

Thanks for reading!

What you could do is you could post on the facebook group for the class below you to see if someone can trade with you...do you live near conshocken, you can call the testing center to see if someone doesn't show or anything, one of my classmates had appendicitis and couldn't take the test. I hope it works out. It will be a mystery for me as to why I failed the humanistic portion of the COMLEX PE.

 

[costales]

Hello all,

TL/DR I failed the PE and need a PE spot for next week (the week of May 11 through 16). There is a high chance that I may be dropped from my currently matched residency position at a very desirable academic program if this does not happen. Please PM me if you would like to release a date for me! I will also paypal you the 150$ it costs to reschedule that business (just image capture the price when its on the screen!)

The long version:

I started out like most of you osteopathic students – observant, hopeful, bright eyed, and full of medical dreams. My medical school years were fraught with highs and lows. One exam brought me to the top of the mountain and then a week later a sobering fall to rock bottom with the results of the next midterm. My aspirations went through a similar cycle. At first I wanted to be an oncologist, but not just any oncologist. I wanted to be a pediatric oncologist. I thought my calling was saving the lives of children with cancer. Eventually that morphed into only pediatrics, then orthopedics, then orthopedic surgery, cardiology, and finally general surgery. I was terrified when I first found out that I wanted to be a surgeon and was actually going for it. I did not think I could stand up to the MD’s out there in the allopathic world. But, I remained hopeful.

Step 1 came around. My hope plummeted. I received a bad score (and I do mean bad score – not just a low score, although it was VERY low). I thought my surgical life was going to end because nobody in the allopathic world would want someone with such a low score – especially an osteopathic student with a low score. But I pressed on because I loved being in the OR so much. I loved taking care of surgical patients, I loved the hours, I loved the patient-doctor interaction, and I loved the surgeons I got to rotate with. I rotated in big name institutions. Institutions that osteopathic students have no business rotating in (or so they say). With each rotation I became more and more confident hat I was choosing the right course. I was easily leaps and bounds “better” then the top MD student on each away rotation I was on – surgical or otherwise. At some institutions I was asked to show the PGY-1’s how to close, how to open, and explain different pathologic processes as they pertain to surgery. I gained the trust of big wigs across the United States and got letters to prove it. I published papers and made a ton of friends along the way. Then I took step 2 and again plummeted into depression. Rock bottom, baby! Sure I did better than on my step 1, by 10 points. But a 10-point improvement on my previous score was nothing to celebrate. I wasn't even close to “average.” I applied to for the match and interviews were scarce. But I interviewed at some big name places that I too, was surprised to get interviews at. I had passed USMLE and COMLEX step 1 and 2, had only the PE to go. After a mistake in scheduling the PE and a plane ticket on different dates, I rescheduled and took the PE. I am done with my exams. Now I only have to wait.

Two weeks later the most incredible thing happened: I got accepted somewhere. The DO student going for allopathic surgery got accepted! The DO student with terrible scores, matched allo surgery! I lost it. There is a God. Miracles do happen. But, where? I had my suspicions based on program feedback after interviews. In fact, I was 100% positive I was going to my 4th choice and would have to move to another state because they “had to have me.” Even despite my scores. I started looking at homes to rent in that state. A week later the results came back. At 11:59 am, the match email loaded into my inbox. I opened it. My heart skipped a beat. As my eyes scanned the email for the institutions name, my heart skipped another beat. Finally, my eyes rested on their final destination. Miosis, then midriasis. My heart stopped. My mouth fell open. My knees quivered. I began to cry. First choice. FIRST CHOICE! The no-name, low score, DO student was going to his first choice allopathic residency pick. A big name academic institution that I have no business going to (or so they say). Against-all-odds. An uphill battle. Underdog. Cinderella story. Was I dreaming? Was this a movie? If it was, where was upbeat theme music?. I kept saying it to myself over and over. First choice. First choice. First choice. I was in a daze.

I immediately told everybody. Vacation plans were set. Plane tickets bought. I picked up a few gigs here and there for some extra money in the weeks leading up to residency. I received my acceptance packet from the program. Completed it and returned it. Finished all of the orientation lectures early. Submitted. I thought to myself “nothing will prevent me from reaching my goals except for myself.” For the next three weeks I am on cruise control. Reading books, watching movies, and working out. LOVING LIFE. I was still in disbelief.

Monday, May 4th. An email pops into my inbox. I read it. Something, something, failed COMLEX PE…………Wait. What? Failed the PE. I FAILED the PE??? Of all of the standardized exams I thought I would fail, the PE was NOT one of them. The life drained out of my body. Oh crap. I feel like I just hit a brick wall. Oh my gawd. I feel as though my muscles are atrophying at an incredible rate. The now accepted, at least adequate DO surgical candidate is once again brought down into the valley, this time, below the surface of the sea. I am drowning. This is not real. I immediately call my home program. I will not graduate until I pass the PE. I will not receive a diploma until I receive a passing score. I will not be able to start residency without a PE score. Blackness caves in around me. All this time I was fighting against the odds. Trying to break down the perceived allopathic walls of tyranny. Staying up later then everyone, studying more than everyone, putting myself out there, into the shark infested waters of MD surgery…. AND SURVIVING…. NO THRIVING! And now, the mother ship from which I was birthed beckons to destroy what I consider to be nothing less than a miracle – a miracle that I happened to be a part of. I wasn't ostracized by my MD brethren in medicine, but rather, I am at the door of defeat from my own. The DO world seeks to bury the accomplishments of one of their own – sort of.

I am still in disbelief. I received compliments from patients on just about every rotation I have been on. I’m paraphrasing patients here: “don’t ever change,” I hope you stay as nice as you are when you become a famous doctor,” “I haven’t met a doctor as kind and caring as you have been to me. Thank you!” I have received mostly honors on all clinical rotations (except for peds) – at big name institutions. I have received support, been given congratulations for my medical performance in many institutions by the very physicians and surgeons I have worked with – many of which said I was one of the best students they have ever worked with. When I look back on my medical school career now, at this moment in time, I think I have a lot to be proud of. I now realize that my attempts, my struggles have been validated by numerous physicians and patients. But now, as I face the possibility of this all being trumped by a failing grade on a “standardized” clinical skills exam. An exam where I am graded by people I cannot see. An exam whose result would probably enrage some of my letter writers. I have no anger, no malice towards the NBOME. Only pity. Only disappointment. Only the desire to run as far away from them as possible and never look back. Now, the solitary organization that struck me down, the organization that has taken so much of money, and that has in one large way made a mockery of my medical school career, will not help me retake the exam at an earlier date. They wont help me watch dates on the website. They wont reserve an open spot for me (but really, why should they?). They wont help the exam I do end up taking be scored any faster than the current going rate that they are all scored at – even though I could lose a residency spot. I am sunk and I realize that hindsight is 20/20 and I should have taken this exam at the end of my third year. I am currently signed up for an early June date.

So that's where I am now. I am contacting my residency program on Monday because even if I get an earlier exam date, It may be a month after July 1st that my PE is scored thanks to the 8-10 weeks grading interval that is written in stone. There is a very real possibility that I will be dropped from the residency program I was accepted to. So, if anyone has a date for next week that you can give up, I will gladly take it from you, and pay that $150 fee to reschedule your exam (just send me a screen capture of the reschedule fee – additionally private message me if you do!).

Despite what happens to me, I want you all to know this: that even against all odds, even though you are DO students, even though you may have poor or worse scores, there is still hope. These programs are looking for good people. Good STUDENTS. And that doesn't always mean a 257 step 1. You can do it, just don't let a silly exam wreck your hard work at the finish line. Always learn, always be better than you were the day before. Don't be afraid to do anything because you are a DO. You should do EVERYTHING, BECAUSE you're a DO. Go forth and concur. Obtain those dreams that you will one day be X kind of doctor. Go and do it. Be truthful, be polite, be honest. It will be difficult, the battle will be long, but you can do it. You CAN do it.

Thanks for reading!

C- for creative writing.

 

[kenjixshadow]

x

 

[SurgeDO]

great story. send me a message with all your tips for performing in the OR.

 

[user3]

C- for creative writing.

Rude.

 

[hse]

Op's credibility plummeted to zero about where he showed md surg residents how to cut and sew and taught them path... yeah right lol...

 

[noshie]

Op's credibility plummeted to zero about where he showed md surg residents how to cut and sew and taught them path... yeah right lol...

I don't know... I went on plenty of rotations where I saw that fourth year medical students were more knowledgable than 1st year residents. I've schooled a few residents myself... Residency makes some people too complacent.

Also, OP, congrats on matching into your #1! You should be thankful that you failed the PE after the match. I had a friend that failed it right before the rank lists went in and he ended up scrambling hard. I'm sure you will figure something out and they won't make you rescind your residency.

Its always crappy to be brought down a few notches when everything is going so well... but sometimes it is what you really need to make you realize that you have to keep working hard at everything.

 

[hse]

don't be so naive...op is trolling... 'very low' step 1 but 'leaps and bounds better than the top md student at big name institutions...' ... in surgery? seriously??

 

[dunkdocta]

What you could do is you could post on the facebook group for the class below you to see if someone can trade with you...do you live near conshocken, you can call the testing center to see if someone doesn't show or anything, one of my classmates had appendicitis and couldn't take the test. I hope it works out. It will be a mystery for me as to why I failed the humanistic portion of the COMLEX PE.

Thanks for the advice. I did JUST that. Unfortunately I live on the opposite side of the US from Conshohocken.

C- for creative writing.

Thanks! I LOL'ed at this. Needed some humor in my life right now.

great story. send me a message with all your tips for performing in the OR.

Honestly, I blame how residents and attending will teach you to suture and tie. They will tell you how, but they wont explain the idiosyncrasies that turn you from a good med student to a great medical student. I can elaborate on some of those idiosyncrasies if you like. Its better to know them before you rotate.

Its always crappy to be brought down a few notches when everything is going so well... but sometimes it is what you really need to make you realize that you have to keep working hard at everything.

Truth!

don't be so naive...op is trolling... 'very low' step 1 but 'leaps and bounds better than the top md student at big name institutions...' ... in surgery? seriously??

What I am about to say is not a "look at me comment." But i want everyone here to realize that rotating at big name institutions is NOT as scary or impossible as some people think. I DO recommend you do some rotations at some big name places - you will find they are not all what they are cracked up to be. You will understand what I mean. Most MD students are born out of an extremely hierarchical system that is very hands off. In all of my rotations I tried to be as hands on as I could be. So when the MD PhD student with the latest publication in whatever journal is just standing there with his arms crossed at the table and not saying or doing anything, I was asking for laps, tools, engaging the surgeon, asking if that's the cystic artery, if they ever use aberdeen stitch/knot, if they read that recent paper that states drains as a risk factor for post op anastamotic leak or if they are going to worry about short bowel syndrome due to this being their 5th concurrent SB resection. These questions, of course, set me up for pimp questions I already know the answer to - that is why I asked them. Additionally just do stuff until the you are told to stop. Surgeons love people that take the initiative and are trying to "get in the mix." Audition rotations are a game. You just have to know how to play the field.

 

[noshie]

don't be so naive...op is trolling... 'very low' step 1 but 'leaps and bounds better than the top md student at big name institutions...' ... in surgery? seriously??

I had a Step 1 of 212 and a Step 2 of 227, a 2.3 GPA and was ranked in the bottom three people of my class of 250 people... and still got 21 EM ACGME interviews. I did way better on securing interviews than pretty much all of my classmates going into EM that were in the top of my class. So yeah... Seriously. Maybe you shouldn't be so naive...

So when the MD PhD student with the latest publication in whatever journal is just standing there with his arms crossed at the table and not saying or doing anything, I was asking for laps, tools, engaging the surgeon, asking if that's the cystic artery, if they ever use aberdeen stitch/knot, if they read that recent paper that states drains as a risk factor for post op anastamotic leak or if they are going to worry about short bowel syndrome due to this being their 5th concurrent SB resection. These questions, of course, set me up for pimp questions I already know the answer to - that is why I asked them. Additionally just do stuff until the you are told to stop.

I will have to agree with dunkdocta here. This was my tactic all the way through third and fourth year. If you speak up at every opportunity and you're wrong 50% of the time, most people won't remember that you were half wrong, but they will remember you. If you never say anything and just listen to everything going on around you, you could be the smartest person on this dang earth but I guarantee no one will remember you, and if that is the case then why are you even rotating there.

 

[Oblique]

Hello all,

TL/DR I failed the PE and need a PE spot for next week (the week of May 11 through 16). There is a high chance that I may be dropped from my currently matched residency position at a very desirable academic program if this does not happen. Please PM me if you would like to release a date for me! I will also paypal you the 150$ it costs to reschedule that business (just image capture the price when its on the screen!)

The long version:

I started out like most of you osteopathic students – observant, hopeful, bright eyed, and full of medical dreams. My medical school years were fraught with highs and lows. One exam brought me to the top of the mountain and then a week later a sobering fall to rock bottom with the results of the next midterm. My aspirations went through a similar cycle. At first I wanted to be an oncologist, but not just any oncologist. I wanted to be a pediatric oncologist. I thought my calling was saving the lives of children with cancer. Eventually that morphed into only pediatrics, then orthopedics, then orthopedic surgery, cardiology, and finally general surgery. I was terrified when I first found out that I wanted to be a surgeon and was actually going for it. I did not think I could stand up to the MD’s out there in the allopathic world. But, I remained hopeful.

Step 1 came around. My hope plummeted. I received a bad score (and I do mean bad score – not just a low score, although it was VERY low). I thought my surgical life was going to end because nobody in the allopathic world would want someone with such a low score – especially an osteopathic student with a low score. But I pressed on because I loved being in the OR so much. I loved taking care of surgical patients, I loved the hours, I loved the patient-doctor interaction, and I loved the surgeons I got to rotate with. I rotated in big name institutions. Institutions that osteopathic students have no business rotating in (or so they say). With each rotation I became more and more confident hat I was choosing the right course. I was easily leaps and bounds “better” then the top MD student on each away rotation I was on – surgical or otherwise. At some institutions I was asked to show the PGY-1’s how to close, how to open, and explain different pathologic processes as they pertain to surgery. I gained the trust of big wigs across the United States and got letters to prove it. I published papers and made a ton of friends along the way. Then I took step 2 and again plummeted into depression. Rock bottom, baby! Sure I did better than on my step 1, by 10 points. But a 10-point improvement on my previous score was nothing to celebrate. I wasn't even close to “average.” I applied to for the match and interviews were scarce. But I interviewed at some big name places that I too, was surprised to get interviews at. I had passed USMLE and COMLEX step 1 and 2, had only the PE to go. After a mistake in scheduling the PE and a plane ticket on different dates, I rescheduled and took the PE. I am done with my exams. Now I only have to wait.

Two weeks later the most incredible thing happened: I got accepted somewhere. The DO student going for allopathic surgery got accepted! The DO student with terrible scores, matched allo surgery! I lost it. There is a God. Miracles do happen. But, where? I had my suspicions based on program feedback after interviews. In fact, I was 100% positive I was going to my 4th choice and would have to move to another state because they “had to have me.” Even despite my scores. I started looking at homes to rent in that state. A week later the results came back. At 11:59 am, the match email loaded into my inbox. I opened it. My heart skipped a beat. As my eyes scanned the email for the institutions name, my heart skipped another beat. Finally, my eyes rested on their final destination. Miosis, then midriasis. My heart stopped. My mouth fell open. My knees quivered. I began to cry. First choice. FIRST CHOICE! The no-name, low score, DO student was going to his first choice allopathic residency pick. A big name academic institution that I have no business going to (or so they say). Against-all-odds. An uphill battle. Underdog. Cinderella story. Was I dreaming? Was this a movie? If it was, where was upbeat theme music?. I kept saying it to myself over and over. First choice. First choice. First choice. I was in a daze.

I immediately told everybody. Vacation plans were set. Plane tickets bought. I picked up a few gigs here and there for some extra money in the weeks leading up to residency. I received my acceptance packet from the program. Completed it and returned it. Finished all of the orientation lectures early. Submitted. I thought to myself “nothing will prevent me from reaching my goals except for myself.” For the next three weeks I am on cruise control. Reading books, watching movies, and working out. LOVING LIFE. I was still in disbelief.

Monday, May 4th. An email pops into my inbox. I read it. Something, something, failed COMLEX PE…………Wait. What? Failed the PE. I FAILED the PE??? Of all of the standardized exams I thought I would fail, the PE was NOT one of them. The life drained out of my body. Oh crap. I feel like I just hit a brick wall. Oh my gawd. I feel as though my muscles are atrophying at an incredible rate. The now accepted, at least adequate DO surgical candidate is once again brought down into the valley, this time, below the surface of the sea. I am drowning. This is not real. I immediately call my home program. I will not graduate until I pass the PE. I will not receive a diploma until I receive a passing score. I will not be able to start residency without a PE score. Blackness caves in around me. All this time I was fighting against the odds. Trying to break down the perceived allopathic walls of tyranny. Staying up later then everyone, studying more than everyone, putting myself out there, into the shark infested waters of MD surgery…. AND SURVIVING…. NO THRIVING! And now, the mother ship from which I was birthed beckons to destroy what I consider to be nothing less than a miracle – a miracle that I happened to be a part of. I wasn't ostracized by my MD brethren in medicine, but rather, I am at the door of defeat from my own. The DO world seeks to bury the accomplishments of one of their own – sort of.

I am still in disbelief. I received compliments from patients on just about every rotation I have been on. I’m paraphrasing patients here: “don’t ever change,” I hope you stay as nice as you are when you become a famous doctor,” “I haven’t met a doctor as kind and caring as you have been to me. Thank you!” I have received mostly honors on all clinical rotations (except for peds) – at big name institutions. I have received support, been given congratulations for my medical performance in many institutions by the very physicians and surgeons I have worked with – many of which said I was one of the best students they have ever worked with. When I look back on my medical school career now, at this moment in time, I think I have a lot to be proud of. I now realize that my attempts, my struggles have been validated by numerous physicians and patients. But now, as I face the possibility of this all being trumped by a failing grade on a “standardized” clinical skills exam. An exam where I am graded by people I cannot see. An exam whose result would probably enrage some of my letter writers. I have no anger, no malice towards the NBOME. Only pity. Only disappointment. Only the desire to run as far away from them as possible and never look back. Now, the solitary organization that struck me down, the organization that has taken so much of money, and that has in one large way made a mockery of my medical school career, will not help me retake the exam at an earlier date. They wont help me watch dates on the website. They wont reserve an open spot for me (but really, why should they?). They wont help the exam I do end up taking be scored any faster than the current going rate that they are all scored at – even though I could lose a residency spot. I am sunk and I realize that hindsight is 20/20 and I should have taken this exam at the end of my third year. I am currently signed up for an early June date.

So that's where I am now. I am contacting my residency program on Monday because even if I get an earlier exam date, It may be a month after July 1st that my PE is scored thanks to the 8-10 weeks grading interval that is written in stone. There is a very real possibility that I will be dropped from the residency program I was accepted to. So, if anyone has a date for next week that you can give up, I will gladly take it from you, and pay that $150 fee to reschedule your exam (just send me a screen capture of the reschedule fee – additionally private message me if you do!).

Despite what happens to me, I want you all to know this: that even against all odds, even though you are DO students, even though you may have poor or worse scores, there is still hope. These programs are looking for good people. Good STUDENTS. And that doesn't always mean a 257 step 1. You can do it, just don't let a silly exam wreck your hard work at the finish line. Always learn, always be better than you were the day before. Don't be afraid to do anything because you are a DO. You should do EVERYTHING, BECAUSE you're a DO. Go forth and concur. Obtain those dreams that you will one day be X kind of doctor. Go and do it. Be truthful, be polite, be honest. It will be difficult, the battle will be long, but you can do it. You CAN do it.

Thanks for reading!

Thanks for sharing. Good luck with getting another PE date before graduation. Like someone else said, you should ask your school's class of 2016 or classmates if they're willing to give up their date for you.

 

[psych72]

I had a Step 1 of 212 and a Step 2 of 227, a 2.3 GPA and was ranked in the bottom three people of my class of 250 people... and still got 21 EM ACGME interviews. I did way better on securing interviews than pretty much all of my classmates going into EM that were in the top of my class. So yeah... Seriously. Maybe you shouldn't be so naive...



I will have to agree with dunkdocta here. This was my tactic all the way through third and fourth year. If you speak up at every opportunity and you're wrong 50% of the time, most people won't remember that you were half wrong, but they will remember you. If you never say anything and just listen to everything going on around you, you could be the smartest person on this dang earth but I guarantee no one will remember you, and if that is the case then why are you even rotating there.

You must have all star people in your class to be in the bottom 3 of 250 people and still do decent on the USMLE. Our school discouraged people in the bottom 25% of the class from taking USMLE. Which is why I opted not to. My GPA was around 3.0 too, but I decided why risk a USMLE failure. But kudos to you on 21 interviews.

Also, regarding the advice to be assertive, I agree with you to a certain extent, but you also don't want to be that guy who says wrong things and then everyone at the table laughs at him. I was told by one of my preceptors that if I don't know anything 100%, then just say I don't know it. Granted this guy was a bit of an @ss, I took his point. People do like to take opportunities to put others down in medicine. Which is dumb because you're a student, so you're not going to know everything anyways.

This stupid COMLEX PE exam needs to be moved somewhere more central like Texas or Chicago honestly. it was so expensive going to this test. I can't imagine going through that hell 2X. Also, this humanistic section should not be graded by people who are not physicians. There needs to be some objective way to grade students on this. I just winged the exam and got lucky, but it could have gone the other way just as easily.

 

[hallowmann]

...This stupid COMLEX PE exam needs to be moved somewhere more central like Texas or Chicago honestly. it was so expensive going to this test. I can't imagine going through that hell 2X. Also, this humanistic section should not be graded by people who are not physicians. There needs to be some objective way to grade students on this. I just winged the exam and got lucky, but it could have gone the other way just as easily.

This is the scariest part of the whole thing. Its ridiculous how subjective this part of the evaluation seems to be, yet it holds such heavy consequences if things don't go your way.

 

[noshie]

You must have all star people in your class to be in the bottom 3 of 250 people and still do decent on the USMLE. Our school discouraged people in the bottom 25% of the class from taking USMLE. Which is why I opted not to. My GPA was around 3.0 too, but I decided why risk a USMLE failure. But kudos to you on 21 interviews.

Also, regarding the advice to be assertive, I agree with you to a certain extent, but you also don't want to be that guy who says wrong things and then everyone at the table laughs at him. I was told by one of my preceptors that if I don't know anything 100%, then just say I don't know it. Granted this guy was a bit of an @ss, I took his point. People do like to take opportunities to put others down in medicine. Which is dumb because you're a student, so you're not going to know everything anyways.

That preceptor sounds like a jerk. I totally agree, why do they have to be rude to medical students. I don't mind being laughed at, but usually if I say something, I am not just pulling it out of the air. Its either a very educated guess on my background knowledge or I have a good reason for why I am saying it. It also helps that I am skilled at the art of persuasive arguing...

My advisor told me multiple times not to take the USMLE... I just didn't listen. I probably should have not taken them, but I am stubborn. I studied for both steps for about a whole year each. It was likely the main reason I passed either of them.

 

[psych72]

That preceptor sounds like a jerk. I totally agree, why do they have to be rude to medical students. I don't mind being laughed at, but usually if I say something, I am not just pulling it out of the air. Its either a very educated guess on my background knowledge or I have a good reason for why I am saying it. It also helps that I am skilled at the art of persuasive arguing...

My advisor told me multiple times not to take the USMLE... I just didn't listen. I probably should have not taken them, but I am stubborn. I studied for both steps for about a whole year each. It was likely the main reason I passed either of them.

I see as long as its educated. It definitely paid off to you so kudos to you on those scores! Btw you mentioned 250 students, do you go to AZCOM? I didn't know that they get academic advisors.

 

[Harker Heights]

Noshie is the famous underdog who got in at TCOM and apparently matched EM. Noshie: Congratulations!!

 

[Back 5]

This is the scariest part of the whole thing. Its ridiculous how subjective this part of the evaluation seems to be, yet it holds such heavy consequences if things don't go your way.

I'm very thankful my school hammers humanism during our SP encounters.

 

[NurWollen]

This is the scariest part of the whole thing. Its ridiculous how subjective this part of the evaluation seems to be, yet it holds such heavy consequences if things don't go your way.

Yeah, idk why they can't just have physicians grade it. Yeah, physicians are expensive, but they don't let us skimp when paying for the exam (or tuition, or anything else med school related.)

 

[psych72]

I'm very thankful my school hammers humanism during our SP encounters.

By the way, my school was suppose to hammer humanism very well, yet we had 14 people fail it due to the humanistic encounter. Make sure you hone in on the criteria very well...ask if have questions, call someone for them, etc. It's not just being nice to the patient from what some of my friends have told me. You have to make some small talk and ask them how their ride was coming in today.

I was lucky because I just got done with an in-patient rotation where I had a lot of practice.

 

[psych72]

Yeah, idk why they can't just have physicians grade it. Yeah, physicians are expensive, but they don't let us skimp when paying for the exam (or tuition, or anything else med school related.)

Honestly, I think no physician in their right mind would ever have the time to go through that many hours of videos to critique you on that stuff. No matter how much you pay them.

I think it goes back to catering to patients needs. Patients are never happy in today's system no matter how much time you spend with them, it's so stupid.

But I think this exam is really created just to generate money for the NBOME. Part of the reason I decided not to go for DO residencies was because I am so sick of the NBOME and its inability to set score criteria for the COMLEX 2, the shadiness of the COMLEX PE etc.

 

[Back 5]

By the way, my school was suppose to hammer humanism very well, yet we had 14 people fail it due to the humanistic encounter. Make sure you hone in on the criteria very well...ask if have questions, call someone for them, etc. It's not just being nice to the patient from what some of my friends have told me. You have to make some small talk and ask them how their ride was coming in today.

I was lucky because I just got done with an in-patient rotation where I had a lot of practice.

That's absurd.

 

[microshar88]

As someone who failed prior to interview season, I'll tell you that most ACGME residency committee's don't even know what the COMLEX PE, a lot of them thought it was another written exam, combined with my low class rank and sub 500 level 1 and level 2 scores, they thought I was bad news. So you'll need to educate them a bit on what the COMLEX PE is and tell them its equivalent to USMLE STEP 2 CS.

I've heard a rumor that the individuals with the worst performance for every session fail it. I don't know if there's truth to that. Passing the biomedical domain and then having just a FAIL for the humanistic domain didn't help me at all. I seriously thought about suing them for the comments or forcing them to give them to me. I mean we deserve at least that much.

I retook it and passed for what its worth.

 

[user3]

As someone who failed prior to interview season, I'll tell you that most ACGME residency committee's don't even know what the COMLEX PE, a lot of them thought it was another written exam, combined with my low class rank and sub 500 level 1 and level 2 scores, they thought I was bad news. So you'll need to educate them a bit on what the COMLEX PE is and tell them its equivalent to USMLE STEP 2 CS.

I've heard a rumor that the individuals with the worst performance for every session fail it. I don't know if there's truth to that. Passing the biomedical domain and then having just a FAIL for the humanistic domain didn't help me at all. I seriously thought about suing them for the comments or forcing them to give them to me. I mean we deserve at least that much.

I retook it and passed for what its worth.

would that even be possible?

 

[hallowmann]

That's absurd.

That's really the bottom line. My program also hammers in "humanism", but we still have 5-8% of the class fail every year almost exclusively due to the humanistic domain.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[costales]

I've heard those rumors that they are required to fail a certain percentage every time. And that a large proportion are non-caucasian, english as a second language, ect. Really messed up.

I am not a fan of Conshohocken, but I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions about racial bias. Only 61% of examinees self-identified as whites (see link below), and there are plenty of DOs out there with a foreign accent.

http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2093930
Five-Year Summary of COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE Examinee Performance and Survey Data

 

[NurWollen]

Do any of you think that if your doctor acted the way they want us to in Conshohocken, it would be kind of.... creepy?

 

[noshie]

I see as long as its educated. It definitely paid off to you so kudos to you on those scores! Btw you mentioned 250 students, do you go to AZCOM? I didn't know that they get academic advisors.

I'm at TCOM. I almost went to AZCOM though! That is very odd that AZCOM would not have advisors for their students. TCOM gives us 3 advisors... Only one of them was useful however.

Noshie is the famous underdog who got in at TCOM and apparently matched EM. Noshie: Congratulations!!

Aww, thanks!

 

[microshar88]

I am not a fan of Conshohocken, but I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions about racial bias. Only 61% of examinees self-identified as whites (see link below), and there are plenty of DOs out there with a foreign accent.

http://jaoa.org/article.aspx?articleid=2093930
Five-Year Summary of COMLEX-USA Level 2-PE Examinee Performance and Survey Data

I agree I had 2 friends who were of Asian decent (Vietnamese) with a thick Asian accent, and one of them has such an issue that he has to take propanolol before presenting due to his apprehension about his language barrier and people laughing at him during rounds.

They still passed. English is my first language and I am a mixed race (part caucasian). I don't think they fail people who are of another nationality (in my opinion its just the opposite). The people who failed were mostly caucasian if that's of any benefit.

By the way, really hammer what humanism is, it's not just being nice and being a personable friendly person. Its asking if the patient has any questions, making eye contact etc. Trust me, I did all of that and still failed.

If you happen to be unfortunate and fail the exam, I recommend just applying AOA. ACGME program directors think you're a huge risk if they see the fail regardless of how high your COMLEX scores are (even 600+).

 

[microshar88]

would that even be possible?

Probably not. Wouldnt be surprised if they lost the evaluations of actors or even if there was a mistake. One of my friends who took the PE, told me that when he entered the room, the patient wasn't even there for 2 minutes, they had a lot of interruptions. Very disorganized staff and actors. I think their nice and all, but instead of trying to focus what to get us for lunch, they should try and make things organized so they are punctual.

I also think, this is in a perfect world where NBOME has the best interests of patients/students at heart instead of their bank accounts mind you, that they should give people an opportunity to remediate if there is a risk they fail before leaving Conshhocken.

At the end of the day, its money driven, I don't think my clinical skills or personality are an issue as reflected by my MSPE comments.

I don't think suing them is going to fly but its wishful thinking on my part.

 

[kenjixshadow]

@microshar88 Did you do anything differently the 2nd time around? Where did you & your friend take the PE?

 

[microshar88]

@microshar88 Did you do anything differently the 2nd time around? Where did you & your friend take the PE?

you can only take it in Conshy. I did worse if anything. I was so petrified of screwing thins up. I forgot to wash my hands multiple times. I couldn't sleep the night before. It was a disaster. I stayed at the stupid hotel next to the train tracks, which didn't help either. I was having palpitations throughout the whole test and I thought I was going to have a syncopal episode prior to every encounter.

I thought I was going to fail.

 

[serimeri]

The part that really sucks is that you have to disclose on every state application for medical licensure that you failed an exam, every job application, hospital privilege application etc. Medicine is a very unforgiving field.

 

[SLC]

Do any of you think that if your doctor acted the way they want us to in Conshohocken, it would be kind of.... creepy?

I acted totally normal (at least I think I did). The humanistic domain just requires you to be caring; let people know you're sorry that they are going through whatever it is they're going through and stuff.

Also, don't make stuff up, and that doesn't just go for findings. On OMM, if you don't know what to do, say so. I couldn't remember a CS treatment for the IT band for the life of me so I told the patient that they should RICE, take NSAIDs and return if not improved in one week. I promised them that I would have a treatment for them at that point if need be. I could have done soft tissue, but I was so stressed about not remembering the CS that I didn't think of that.

It all worked out and I passed.

 

[NurWollen]

I acted totally normal (at least I think I did). The humanistic domain just requires you to be caring; let people know you're sorry that they are going through whatever it is they're going through and stuff.

Also, don't make stuff up, and that doesn't just go for findings. On OMM, if you don't know what to do, say so. I couldn't remember a CS treatment for the IT band for the life of me so I told the patient that they should RICE, take NSAIDs and return if not improved in one week. I promised them that I would have a treatment for them at that point if need be. I could have done soft tissue, but I was so stressed about not remembering the CS that I didn't think of that.

It all worked out and I passed.

So if you forget a technical thing like how to perform an OMM technique, it won't necessarily hurt you in the humanistic domain, which is where most people fail, right?

 

[psych72]

I BSed OMM and still passed. I think thats the other component

 

[SLC]

So if you forget a technical thing like how to perform an OMM technique, it won't necessarily hurt you in the humanistic domain, which is where most people fail, right?

I can't promise that, all I can say is that I didn't fail because of it. I tried to create my own technique, but the patient said it didn't help. So I did as I described above and documented such in the note, they must've been OK with it because I didn't fail despite missing 33% of the OMM (which is a separate grading category).

 

[psych72]

for what its worth i felt like i bombed it and it turned out alright. i think its just one of those things you need to think calmly through

make sure you eat a philly cheasestake while your there. the man at the testing senter was so sweet and nice, he suggested a place but i couldn't go due to my stupid flight!

and also i think renting a car and staying somewhere besides the marriott might be better if you get distracted by train noise just a thought

 

[NurWollen]

Has anyone heard if they're still going to open up a new PE site in Chicago?

 

[serimeri]

I had a Step 1 of 212 and a Step 2 of 227, a 2.3 GPA and was ranked in the bottom three people of my class of 250 people... and still got 21 EM ACGME interviews. I did way better on securing interviews than pretty much all of my classmates going into EM that were in the top of my class. So yeah... Seriously. Maybe you shouldn't be so naive...



I will have to agree with dunkdocta here. This was my tactic all the way through third and fourth year. If you speak up at every opportunity and you're wrong 50% of the time, most people won't remember that you were half wrong, but they will remember you. If you never say anything and just listen to everything going on around you, you could be the smartest person on this dang earth but I guarantee no one will remember you, and if that is the case then why are you even rotating there.

Thats an impressive step 1 for someone with that GPA. I guess it goes to show that sometimes test-taking abilities are important. You aren't the only example, I did a lot better on school exams than a lot of my friends and had a higher rank than them, but barely passed the NBME for Step 1 and Step 2 (got scared 2 weeks before both of them and never took them---Lost my money to NBME too

I think I'm a poor standardized test taker, either its the anxiety or my poor skill of missing important info. But obviously I did good on the school exams, because we had a few days to study and you could pinpoint all the high yield stuff plus it was focused on a particular system like (GI) so it was more focused.

My friends always say that I have good knowledge when it comes to the big picture type stuff even with the details, but I think I focus too much on details sometimes and that's what led to my poor board scores. I was never a great MCAT taker either.

But enough of that tangent, I saw your post and I found it interesting mainly because I still wonder what would have happened if I would have taken a chance and somehow I got lucky since most of our 3rd year shelf exams were NBME. Now that I saw my dismal comlex 2 i thought even more about it but oh well.

 

[hallowmann]

Has anyone heard if they're still going to open up a new PE site in Chicago?

It won't be in time for us. Projected date was 2017.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

C- for creative writing.

Agreed. This seems like it was written by someone in the midst of a manic phase.

Good luck, however.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

What I am about to say is not a "look at me comment." But i want everyone here to realize that rotating at big name institutions is NOT as scary or impossible as some people think. I DO recommend you do some rotations at some big name places - you will find they are not all what they are cracked up to be. You will understand what I mean. Most MD students are born out of an extremely hierarchical system that is very hands off. In all of my rotations I tried to be as hands on as I could be. So when the MD PhD student with the latest publication in whatever journal is just standing there with his arms crossed at the table and not saying or doing anything, I was asking for laps, tools, engaging the surgeon, asking if that's the cystic artery, if they ever use aberdeen stitch/knot, if they read that recent paper that states drains as a risk factor for post op anastamotic leak or if they are going to worry about short bowel syndrome due to this being their 5th concurrent SB resection. These questions, of course, set me up for pimp questions I already know the answer to - that is why I asked them. Additionally just do stuff until the you are told to stop. Surgeons love people that take the initiative and are trying to "get in the mix." Audition rotations are a game. You just have to know how to play the field.

I don't know where this perception comes from, but it's very prevalent in the DO world and very wrong. I go to a 'big name' ACGME place for residency and I can tell you that the medical students do 100x more than I ever was allowed to as a DO student. The school gets them directly involved in everything that matters. Their 3rd/4th year is a far better experience than what I had by far.

 

[user3]

---

 

[Tekar]

Yeah, idk why they can't just have physicians grade it. Yeah, physicians are expensive, but they don't let us skimp when paying for the exam (or tuition, or anything else med school related.)

Physicians grade your SOAP notes. That's why the scoring takes so long. The actors grade you immediately while you're writing your SOAP note.

 

[JGimpel]

The COMLEX, like most other cheap knock-offs of AMA stuff that's legit and well funded, is a total scam to get many thousands of dollars from you. Unfortunately, you have to play the game, especially for the Humanistic portion of the final grade.

Game:
Knock on the door, wait for the SP to welcome you in, maintain eye contact while you're using the alcohol gel (never wash your hands) and as often as you can during the encounter. Your hands can still be somewhat wet when you shake the SP's hand, so don't waste more than 3 seconds rubbing the gel in and use a paper towel if you're really soaked with it.

Ask if they want to go by Miss Jane or Mary while washing your hands and remember her answer.

Say that you believe the room is pretty cold and you'd like to put a drape on them for their comfort, then offer to drape every single patient in the same way for the rest of the day.

Ask an open-ended question about finding the office or the weather, then go right into why the chart says she's here for and if she could tell you more about it.

The minute you hear even the slightest cough or sniffle (many SPs are smokers and reek of it) offer her a cup of water and/or tissue and take the extra 3 seconds to look around the room for where they would be stored to let the grader know you are being sincere.

Get through the rest of the history tactfully and say comforting things when she mentions any pain, discomfort or loss of ROM or work as a result of this. Self-disclose that you also can't sew velcro to your skin to keep your clothes on anymore due to this disabling condition if that or some other ailment that you can attach yourself to comes up.

Make sure you tell the patient not to move if changing position and not only help them get to that position, i.e. laying down, but tell them to let you help them back/up when you're done. A critical step is to swing out the little bar that comes out by their feet before anything else so their legs aren't dangling off the table.

They should have a DRAPE fully on for the encounter, whatever position they're in, and make sure that their GOWN stays on and covers as much as possible, with quick movements to cover an area you just finished with.

Sit down whenever discussing the case and what the A&P is and ask the patient if they have any questions, agree with the plan and can come back in 2 weeks to follow up. Be painfully slow and methodical with minimal medical terminology with this part of the exam to show respect to the layman sitting in front of you.

DONE.

Their is no quality control at the PE. No double reads or inspection of the video for any of the graders. If the grader doesn't like you, she will fail you through being nitpicky and move on to the next victim since she's paid per case, so be as nice as you've ever seen someone be. Watch Stepford Wives and Leave it to Beaver (youtube) for ideas until you're almost sick to your stomach acting that way. Just like your lay patient, the graders usually don't have much medical experience either, no matter what their official training is in, so keep the language as simple as possible.

If you have test-taking anxiety, therapy with some effective stress management strategies is the goal, but you'll need to resort to some sort of medication to help you in the short-term if this is what tanks your scores, so make it a point to ask your PCP for suggestions. Propranolol and Tenex that aren't controlled or small amounts of controlled meds to get you through could work depending upon your own psychological and clinical parameters. You're allowed to carry in them with you during the exam and give them to one of your proctors. Put some green M&Ms in you Ziploc for fun and so that you retain your privacy over what you're taking.

Happy practicing and PASSING!

 

[Ludlow]

I am scheduled to take the PE on August 11th in the PM session. Does anyone want to switch dates with me? I would take anything in September, or late August.