Missing statistics on COVID-19?

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Old Timer said:
I don't have time now, but I can rebut just about everything he said. It;s right wing progaganda. It was known inside the ID community the first case was unrelated to the wet markets was 12/1/19. That means it originated in the middle of November. It was already too late to stop it from spreading world wide.

Read in on this and you will find this is a massive failure of the US govermment When this is over heads will have to roll at the CDC. We don't have a parliamentary form of government. The President is the Chief executive and he is responsible. That's why the sign on Truman's desk didn't say the buck stops there.

We will be unable to stop this virus and open our economy until and unless we have the capability to test, isolate the infected and contact trace everyone they came in contact with. It's Public Heath 101. The sole job of the President right now is to bend the entire force of the Federal Government to get sufficient tests, supplies and reagents to the states so they can do their job.

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Interesting.

I am genuinely curious. Seriously not trying to make an argument against anyone or anything.

Why are we not doing the same thing for the influenza? So much similarities in terms of route of infection, symptoms, etc. except that we have vaccines for the flu which is probable reason for less people dying.
 
Old Timer said:
I don't have time now, but I can rebut just about everything he said. It;s right wing progaganda. It was known inside the ID community the first case was unrelated to the wet markets was 12/1/19. That means it originated in the middle of November. It was already too late to stop it from spreading world wide.

Read in on this and you will find this is a massive failure of the US govermment When this is over heads will have to roll at the CDC. We don't have a parliamentary form of government. The President is the Chief executive and he is responsible. That's why the sign on Truman's desk didn't say the buck stops there.

We will be unable to stop this virus and open our economy until and unless we have the capability to test, isolate the infected and contact trace everyone they came in contact with. It's Public Heath 101. The sole job of the President right now is to bend the entire force of the Federal Government to get sufficient tests, supplies and reagents to the states so they can do their job.

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What do you think would have happened if we locked down immediately? Democrats would have had a fit.

We had under 10 cases when he stopped travel from China.

Now every single time there's even a hint of a virus, we have to shut down immediately. Is that what you want?
 
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VictorOfHungerGames said:
Why are we not doing the same thing for the influenza? So much similarities in terms of route of infection, symptoms, etc. except that we have vaccines for the flu which is probable reason for less people dying.
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Did we do the same thing for other pandemics? Is the whole world just catching up now to what is the appropriate response and just haven't been doing so in the past? I haven't studied human response during pandemics so I am asking for your knowledge since it sounds like you know a lot about pandemics in general.
 
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DagS132 said:
Did we do the same thing for other pandemics? Is the whole world just catching up now to what is the appropriate response and just haven't been doing so in the past? I haven't studied human response during pandemics so I am asking for your knowledge since it sounds like you know a lot about pandemics in general.
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Aside from running a successful independent pharmacy, I wouldnt call myself an expert in anything.

There are patients that asked me that question and i dont have a good answer for them which was the reason why i was asking.

I looked into other pandemics in the past, in US and other countries. And I have been keeping up with this covid19 as much as i could. Im sure the patients will have similar access to the information i am looking at.

There isnt a clear cut answer i can find on why we do not have this type of lockdowns for the flu.
 


If this study is accurate, covid19 may have similar if not lower fatality rate than the flu. May be too early to tell.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
Aside from running a successful independent pharmacy, I wouldnt call myself an expert in anything.

There are patients that asked me that question and i dont have a good answer for them which was the reason why i was asking.

I looked into other pandemics in the past, in US and other countries. And I have been keeping up with this covid19 as much as i could. Im sure the patients will have similar access to the information i am looking at.

There isnt a clear cut answer i can find on why we do not have this type of lockdowns for the flu.
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oh... i thought you were using the flu as an example to support your argument? Okay, well...
 
Instead of looking at the past, anyone want to say what they think we should do when it comes to opening up the market?

Is May 1st to soon?
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Instead of looking at the past, anyone want to say what they think we should do when it comes to opening up the market?

Is May 1st to soon?
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https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america

That website shows the curve versus resources and the approximate dates the curves will dip to an appropriate level. It's really a state-by-state basis, but broadly speaking May 1 would be too soon without a high risk of a resurgence. Mid-May would be more likely.

As for those who wish to stop the lockdowns now, the majority of states are basically hitting their peak now. It would be incredibly dumb to stop it now.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Instead of looking at the past, anyone want to say what they think we should do when it comes to opening up the market?

Is May 1st to soon?
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Eventually you need to open the economy. But, the demand wont be there on May 1st. Our economy is 70% service. I doubt there will be enough people who would go to the ballpark, concert, restaurants to make it profitable.
 
BMBiology said:
Eventually you need to open the economy. But, the demand wont be there on May 1st. Our economy is 70% service. I doubt there will be enough people who would go to the ballpark, concert, restaurants to make it profitable.
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I'm glad you are finally agreeing with me on that point.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
What do you think would have happened if we locked down immediately? Democrats would have had a fit.

We had under 10 cases when he stopped travel from China.

Now every single time there's even a hint of a virus, we have to shut down immediately. Is that what you want?
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We would not have to have locked down if we had tested. See South Korea. Testing is everything. Test, isolate and contact tracing. If we want to end this lockdown that is what we will have to do. I do not understand WTF the President is doing. He should be using the entire force of the government to procure enough test kits, swabs, and reagents so we can do testing. Almost nothing else is important except PPE.

The ID people knew at the time of the travel ban it was too late to do any good except to buy time. I heard and interview with this guy from the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security on Dr. Radio. He pointed out that on 1/31 China announced that Patient zero 12/1/19 was unrelated to the wet market. That means it was not animal to human contact is was people to people contact. With a 2 week incubation period Covid-19 had been circulating in China since at least the middle of November. That means it had a 2+1/2 month head start and it would be a pandemic. Nothing couls be done to stop it.

I am sick and tired of anyone who attempts to defend this administration. You are health care professional. You can't possibly buy this BS that is being peddled. Anyone who understands public health understands testing is everything and until we fix this we will not be able to control this virus. It is an epic failure of leadership.
 
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Testing on that scale is simply not a viable option now or in the near future no matter how much the government does.What is Plan B?
 
Old Timer said:
We would not have to have locked down if we had tested. See South Korea. Testing is everything. Test, isolate and contact tracing. If we want to end this lockdown that is what we will have to do. I do not understand WTF the President is doing. He should be using the entire force of the government to procure enough test kits, swabs, and reagents so we can do testing. Almost nothing else is important except PPE.

The ID people knew at the time of the travel ban it was too late to do any good except to buy time. I heard and interview with this guy from the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security on Dr. Radio. He pointed out that on 1/31 China announced that Patient zero 12/1/19 was unrelated to the wet market. That means it was not animal to human contact is was people to people contact. With a 2 week incubation period Covid-19 had been circulating in China since at least the middle of November. That means it had a 2+1/2 month head start and it would be a pandemic. Nothing couls be done to stop it.

I am sick and tired of anyone who attempts to defend this administration. You are health care professional. You can't possibly buy this BS that is being peddled. Anyone who understands public health understands testing is everything and until we fix this we will not be able to control this virus. It is an epic failure of leadership.
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So your proposal is 30 million tests per day? That is what is being proposed by some.

Again so every single time there's a new outbreak we have to produce 330 million tests?

We already know the CDC screwed up the tests.

It is now being shown in some antibody studies that the death rate is between 0.3 and 0.1%. We'll see if this proves true.

What's the death rate of flu? Typically 0.1%.

Calm down.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
So your proposal is 30 million tests per day? That is what is being proposed by some.

Again so every single time there's a new outbreak we have to produce 330 million tests?

We already know the CDC screwed up the tests.

It is now being shown in some antibody studies that the death rate is between 0.3 and 0.1%. We'll see if this proves true.

What's the death rate of flu? Typically 0.1%.

Calm down.
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Why do you always give dumb choices?

“So you want to shut down the economy when there is a whisper of an outbreak?”

If the death rate is 0.2%, that is over 100,000 Americans will die per year until there is a vaccine/treatment. Use your head.
 
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BMBiology said:
Why do you always give dumb choices?

“So you want to shut down the economy when there is a whisper of an outbreak?”

If the death rate is 0.2%, that is over 100,000 Americans will dis per year until there is a vaccine/treatment. Use your head.
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Did you read his response?

He wants us to act quickly everytime there's a remote chance a virus is going around.

A virus that may end up having a death rate the same as the flu which we all know no one cares about.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Did you read his response?

He wants us to act quickly everytime there's a remote chance a virus is going around.

A virus that may end up having a death rate the same as the flu which we all know no one cares about.
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That is way better than having to shut down the whole economy! How much have we lost because we were not proactive like other countries?
 
The statistics I don't often see are how many people come off ventilators with minimal damage. How many of the severe cases recover completely? What does recovery look like for most people? Reports of possibly permanent decreased lung function and kidney damage are not reassuring.

I have some concern that ventilators may not be helpful for the majority of patients based on the few stats I've seen. If many patients can't come off the ventilators without major damage, is it truly worth ventilating patients? Ventilation is so invasive; do we want to be ventilating people who are likely to die anyway or have major organ damage? That seems like a truly bad death. I really wonder if ventilators are actually helpful for ARDS caused by Covid-19. I hope to see more stats on this, because ventilating somebody with no hope of recovery seems a lot like torture, and nobody wants that for patients.
 
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radio frequency said:
The statistics I don't often see are how many people come off ventilators with minimal damage. How many of the severe cases recover completely? What does recovery look like for most people? Reports of possibly permanent decreased lung function and kidney damage are not reassuring.

I have some concern that ventilators may not be helpful for the majority of patients based on the few stats I've seen. If many patients can't come off the ventilators without major damage, is it truly worth ventilating patients? Ventilation is so invasive; do we want to be ventilating people who are likely to die anyway or have major organ damage? That seems like a truly bad death.
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New York reports 80% die
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Nope only if it was Bernie
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This says it all. You argue because you desperately want to be right, even on a forum.

ImageUploadedBySDN1587560469.010207.jpg
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Somewhere around 40 million people get the flu every year and no one gives a darn.

Yet this thing is going to end us?

Use your head.
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I've been saying this all along yet... sigh... lol why do we not care about other infectious diseases? and all of a sudden the media and the government is ALL OVER this... and just purposely crashed the economy... isn't that just weird? Maybe to correct the ballooning economy perhaps? We can't continue to accrue debt and interest forever so at some point we have to crash and start over? like the great depression? i don't know but this whole thing is just weird and i don't feel like listening to the media nor the government at this point. lol yolo.

Just waiting for the gym to open up... and my $2000 per month stimulus check to put in my roth ira lol
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
I've been saying this all along yet... sigh... lol why do we not care about other infectious diseases? and all of a sudden the media and the government is ALL OVER this... and just purposely crashed the economy... isn't that just weird? Maybe to correct the ballooning economy perhaps? We can't continue to accrue debt and interest forever so at some point we have to crash and start over? like the great depression? i don't know but this whole thing is just weird and i don't feel like listening to the media nor the government at this point. lol yolo.

Just waiting for the gym to open up... and my $2000 per month stimulus check to put in my roth ira lol
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Comparing this to the regular flu is ridiculous. This virus has already killed more Americans in one month than the whole flu season. Imagine how many more people would have been killed if we didn’t go into quarantine.

We can debate what we should do next but to down play the severity of this virus is just dumb.
 
BMBiology said:
Comparing this to the regular flu is ridiculous. This virus has already killed more Americans in one month than the whole flu season. Imagine how many more people would have been killed if we didn’t go into quarantine.

We can debate what we should do next but to down play the severity of this virus is just dumb.
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46k deaths so far in the US. That’s total, not just one month. That isn’t more than a whole flu season is it?
 
owlegrad said:
46k deaths so far in the US. That’s total, not just one month. That isn’t more than a whole flu season is it?
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Most of the counted deaths were within the last month. About 50,000 Americans die in a bad flu season.

Keep in mind..we don’t even know if there is any long term complication from this virus like permanent damage to the lungs, kidneys. So, it is reasonable to approach this with caution.
 
BMBiology said:
Comparing this to the regular flu is ridiculous. This virus has already killed more Americans in one month than the whole flu season. Imagine how many more people would have been killed if we didn’t go into quarantine.

We can debate what we should do next but to down play the severity of this virus is just dumb.
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Factor in the vaccine or lack thereof and infectious rate, not death rate, they are very similar. Also there are so many reports I'm reading about on false reportings. i.e. US Hospitals Getting Paid More to Label Cause of Death as ‘Coronavirus’ - Global Research
 
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owlegrad said:
46k deaths so far in the US. That’s total, not just one month. That isn’t more than a whole flu season is it?
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Also, we have to take into consideration of the vaccines for the flu, especially for the geriatric population. If we level the playing field and take away the flu vaccine, how much would the death toll rise? probably much more than coivd19 i assume.
 
BMBiology said:
Comparing this to the regular flu is ridiculous. This virus has already killed more Americans in one month than the whole flu season. Imagine how many more people would have been killed if we didn’t go into quarantine.

We can debate what we should do next but to down play the severity of this virus is just dumb.
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Not down playing anything. Just trying to look at it as what it is and not blow this out of proportion like the media and the government are doing. They're being such a Karen and making it sound like it's the zombie apocalypses but it's like... not lol
 
BMBiology said:
Where is the vaccine for the coronavirus?
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There isn't. That's the whole point. If there was a vaccine, this wouldn't be any more than the seasonal flu. So it's not THAT serious, we experienced this before. Also, vaccine vs no vaccine isn't having exponential difference if you look at the numbers. People are making this sound like it's the new retrovirus. HIV is scary since anyone who has will die with out being treated. covid19 does not kill everyone. It barely kills 1% apparently according to some studies that are coming out since we may have WAY more that are infected that are not reported.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
There isn't. That's the whole point. If there was a vaccine, this wouldn't be any more than the seasonal flu. So it's not THAT serious, we experienced this before. Also, vaccine vs no vaccine isn't having exponential difference if you look at the numbers. People are making this sound like it's the new retrovirus. HIV is scary since anyone who has will die with out being treated. covid19 does not kill everyone. It barely kills 1% apparently according to some studies that are coming out since we may have WAY more that are infected that are not reported.
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That is why it is more concerning because there is no vaccine or treatment. So, don’t compare this to the regular flu. There is also no guarantee we will discover a vaccine.

HIV was way more scary in the 80s. But now there are treatments and therefore, it is not as scary. Makes sense to me.
 
BMBiology said:
That is why it is more concerning because there is no vaccine or treatment. So, don’t compare this to the regular flu. There is also no guarantee we will discover a vaccine.

HIV was way more scary in the 80s. But now there are treatments and therefore, it is not as scary. Makes sense to me.
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No, this is JUST like the flu. Same symptoms, same route of infection, same vulnerable population. I've gotten the flu without being vaccinated and recovered within a few days. Heck, I got the flu couple years ago with vaccine. Just use common sense and your own experience. How many people around you have actually died and how bad is this situation really? you know how they tell you one thing but it's really not true... like how we are just hurdling through infinite space yet stars positions never change... lol like polaris never moves... isn't that interesting?

Logically looking at this, there is no need to shut down the entire country and its economy. Maybe isolate those who are vulnerable and quarantine them but why are we holding everyone hostage?
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
No, this is JUST like the flu. Same symptoms, same route of infection, same vulnerable population. I've gotten the flu without being vaccinated and recovered within a few days. Heck, I got the flu couple years ago with vaccine. Just use common sense and your own experience. How many people around you have actually died and how bad is this situation really? you know how they tell you one thing but it's really not true... like how we are just hurdling through infinite space yet stars positions never change... lol like polaris never moves... isn't that interesting?

Logically looking at this, there is no need to shut down the entire country and its economy. Maybe isolate those who are vulnerable and quarantine them but why are we holding everyone hostage?
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Are you implying the quarantine had little to no effect on the spread of infection and the amount of death? I'm a bit confused in what you are actually trying to say other than just comparing numbers.
 
There is no way to tell if quarantine actually helped or not. It's not even true quarantine. People are still out and about and doing normal things. These pseudo protection protocols we are being forced to follow should not help with a respiratory virus. I mean, unless you don't breath or touch NO ONE, how can you tell?

What I am saying is, national economic shut down probably did more harm than good and probably was unnecessary.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
No, this is JUST like the flu. Same symptoms, same route of infection, same vulnerable population. I've gotten the flu without being vaccinated and recovered within a few days. Heck, I got the flu couple years ago with vaccine. Just use common sense and your own experience. How many people around you have actually died and how bad is this situation really? you know how they tell you one thing but it's really not true... like how we are just hurdling through infinite space yet stars positions never change... lol like polaris never moves... isn't that interesting?

Logically looking at this, there is no need to shut down the entire country and its economy. Maybe isolate those who are vulnerable and quarantine them but why are we holding everyone hostage?
Click to expand...

You mean isolate those who have risk factors like hypertension, diabetes, weak immune system, etc? That is like 50% of the population right there. How are you going to isolate a diabetic mom from her teenage son who lives with her?

The truth is the general public is dumb and selfish. You can expect a good portion of the public not to follow the rules if it is just voluntary.
 
BMBiology said:
You mean isolate those who have risk factors like hypertension, diabetes, weak immune system, etc? That is like 50% of the population right there. How are you going to isolate a diabetic mom from her teenage son who lives with her?

The truth is the general public is dumb and selfish. You can expect a good portion of the public not to follow the rules if it is just voluntary.
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Those co-morbidities who are above age of 65. Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer

Most of those would be retired folks anyways. This would leave the most of working population who can continue to be slaves of capitalism.
 
Wait...are you a flat earthier or something? You think we are not “hurtling through space”?

And you seem to be arguing that partial quarantine is the same as no quarantine, which is false. Reducing interactions is better than nothing. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better. Every interaction you reduce decreases risk (duh).
 
owlegrad said:
Wait...are you a flat earthier or something? You think we are not “hurtling through space”?

And you seem to be arguing that partial quarantine is the same as no quarantine, which is false. Reducing interactions is better than nothing. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better. Every interaction you reduce decreases risk (duh).
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Exactly. It is common sense. Less interaction = less transmission risk. Don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
 
owlegrad said:
Wait...are you a flat earthier or something? You think we are not “hurtling through space”?

And you seem to be arguing that partial quarantine is the same as no quarantine, which is false. Reducing interactions is better than nothing. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better. Every interaction you reduce decreases risk (duh).
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No, I'm not saying no quarantine is the way to go. As I stated above, quarantine those who you need to be and let less risky population run the country. No need for entire economy and country to be shut down.

And no, I am not a flat earther lol but I am questioning things about what we were taught haha. So many questions... with no real answers...
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
And no, I am not a flat earther lol but I am questioning things about what we were taught haha. So many questions... with no real answers...
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I mean I don’t necessary disagree with you but I hope you know there are ‘real answers’ why constellations only change over a cosmic timeframe.
 
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owlegrad said:
I mean I don’t necessary disagree with you but I hope you know there are ‘real answers’ why constellations only change over a cosmic timeframe.
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haha yeah i've looked into it. eh... still not sure... lots of contradicting theories. Like, how or when does water actually curve? lol ya know...
 
owlegrad said:
Wait...are you a flat earthier or something? You think we are not “hurtling through space”?

And you seem to be arguing that partial quarantine is the same as no quarantine, which is false. Reducing interactions is better than nothing. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better. Every interaction you reduce decreases risk (duh).
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I guess Sweden and their epidemiologists are flat earthers
 
DagS132 said:
View attachment 303186

lol. Im not arguing against you or anything, I just found the first and last sentence of your post to be pretty funny.
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Not knowing if full quarantine helped vs partial quarantine as far as death rate...

Shutting down the economy would do more harm as far as quality of life for the general public....

Why are those two ideas funny? Do you realize how many people are being laid off and companies are shutting down?
 
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