MMPI-3

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LadyHalcyon

LadyHalcyon

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I just scored my first MMPI-3 and was wondering if anyone else has used it. It's very different from the MMPI-2 upon first glance.
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Not yet. I mostly use the MMPI for legal cases, not very relevant for most of my clinical cases. For the legal cases, many of my colleagues are sticking with the MMPI-II-RF for now until more of the legal/litigation lit progresses some more. Until then, just planning on collecting MMPI-3 articles and attending some CEs on it here and there.
 
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I'm trying to find a measure that taps into both personality dimensions and Clinical pathology. I love the mcmi 3 but it has its downsides and I think the mmpi 2 probably does the best job of assessing clinical symptoms and personality with the code-type work. I don't think the mcmi 3 will give me what I'm looking for, but I'm attending a 6 hours training next month so I may be wrong. As of now, I tend to give the PAI with the mcmi but I would prefer giving one assessment over two.
 
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LadyHalcyon said:
I'm trying to find a measure that taps into both personality dimensions and Clinical pathology. I love the mcmi 3 but it has its downsides and I think the mmpi 2 probably does the best job of assessing clinical symptoms and personality with the code-type work. I don't think the mcmi 3 will give me what I'm looking for, but I'm attending a 6 hours training next month so I may be wrong. As of now, I tend to give the PAI with the mcmi but I would prefer giving one assessment over two.
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Part of this depends on your clinical populations. Like, if validity is much an issue, I really don't like MCMI or PAI as their validity indicators are not very strong IMO.
 
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LadyHalcyon said:
I don't love the PAI but it's adequate. Faster than mmpi and lower required reading level
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I thought they were essentially equivalent? Isn't PAI 4th grade, and MMPI-II-RF like 5th grade? And I believe that MMPI-3 has been changed enough to lower its required reading level as well.
 
WisNeuro said:
I thought they were essentially equivalent? Isn't PAI 4th grade, and MMPI-II-RF like 5th grade? And I believe that MMPI-3 has been changed enough to lower its required reading level as well.
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I was using mmpi 2, not the RF, which I think is 6th or maybe even 8th grade (could be wrong on that). PAI is 4th.
 
LadyHalcyon said:
I was using mmpi 2, not the RF, which I think is 6th or maybe even 8th grade (could be wrong on that). PAI is 4th.
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Looks like MMPI-2 is 4.5 or 5th depending on which metric you are using. May be some slight elevations on certain individual items or indices, but that seems to be the average.
 
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I don't know how much of an improvement the MCMI-4 is over the 3, but it's out and available. Think it was released a year or so ago.

I believe the initial difference in reading levels between the MMPI-2 and PAI was determined to be due to differences in the algorithms used to rate them, hence the more recent downward adjustment of the MMPI-2. At least that's what I vaguely recall.

I don't yet have any direct experience with the MMPI-3. I'm waiting on getting the manual at some point. My understanding is it's much more similar to the RF than to the 2, which would make sense with Ben-Porath as an author.
 
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Ted Milon is dead, and so is David Wechsler. I sometimes wonder why these instruments carry the names on, ad nauseum. They drift quite a bit from the orginators (at least the Wechsler stuff)...and Milon's stuff was always a bit outside the DSM anyway.
 
AcronymAllergy said:
I don't know how much of an improvement the MCMI-4 is over the 3, but it's out and available. Think it was released a year or so ago.

I believe the initial difference in reading levels between the MMPI-2 and PAI was determined to be due to differences in the algorithms used to rate them, hence the more recent downward adjustment of the MMPI-2. At least that's what I vaguely recall.

I don't yet have any direct experience with the MMPI-3. I'm waiting on getting the manual at some point. My understanding is it's much more similar to the RF than to the 2, which would make sense with Ben-Porath as an author.
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It is definitely more similar to the RF and I prefer the MCMI 3 to the 4, but have used both. I think the mmpi 2 had some variation on reading ability depending on the scale, but would have to look back at my resources to confirm
 
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I personally like the PAI best, but I also know a lot more about it.
 
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LadyHalcyon said:
I just scored my first MMPI-3 and was wondering if anyone else has used it. It's very different from the MMPI-2 upon first glance.
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I have, and I have worked with it during development. I have a few papers in r&r with it. It is basically equal to the RF for validity scales (.95+ correlation) and equal or greater predictive validity for the substantive scales. The reforming decreased average scale elevations and the new scales (e.g. IMP, EAT) are promising and interesting.
 
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Justanothergrad said:
I have, and I have worked with it during development. I have a few papers in r&r with it. It is basically equal to the RF for validity scales (.95+ correlation) and equal or greater predictive validity for the substantive scales. The reforming decreased average scale elevations and the new scales (e.g. IMP, EAT) are promising and interesting.
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Good to hear. I'm excited to learn more during the training.
 
beginner2011 said:
How would one go about signing up for the symposium?
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They typically list it on the Press's website but I cant find it. The symposium is broken into two parts typically- half day CE sessions and a research symposium at the end.

www.upress.umn.edu

MMPI Training Opportunities

Learn more about upcoming MMPI training opportunities.
www.upress.umn.edu www.upress.umn.edu

I would suspect this is an oversight and would touch base with them. We were told we would be provided registration info as presenters but I havent gotten it yet, likely as they are still figuring out the schedule of times and such.
 
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Justanothergrad said:
They typically list it on the Press's website but I cant find it. The symposium is broken into two parts typically- half day CE sessions and a research symposium at the end.

www.upress.umn.edu

MMPI Training Opportunities

Learn more about upcoming MMPI training opportunities.
www.upress.umn.edu www.upress.umn.edu

I would suspect this is an oversight and would touch base with them. We were told we would be provided registration info as presenters but I havent gotten it yet, likely as they are still figuring out the schedule of times and such.
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They mention at the bottom of that page that they've rescheduled the symposium to June 2022. Is that the same one you're talking about?
 
erg923 said:
Ted Milon is dead, and so is David Wechsler. I sometimes wonder why these instruments carry the names on, ad nauseum. They drift quite a bit from the orginators (at least the Wechsler stuff)...and Milon's stuff was always a bit outside the DSM anyway.
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Henry Ford is dead, still see his name plastered on cars that are afar cry from the Model T. All about the brand and name recognition.
 
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Man, if these tests require at least a 4th grade reading level, then there are significant validity concerns for people with borderline IQs or dyslexia. This is a sizeable minority of the population that wouldn't be able to access these tests. Do y'all test reading before giving?
 
borne_before said:
Man, if these tests require at least a 4th grade reading level, then there are significant validity concerns for people with borderline IQs or dyslexia. This is a sizeable minority of the population that wouldn't be able to access these tests. Do y'all test reading before giving?
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Depends on the interview. If the patient has a college degree, and no history of stroke, not as much of a problem. Everyone gets a word reading task for the most part, but it's pretty rare I have to go more in depth for reading comp. I don't get too much in the way of developmental issues, though. And usually, in such cases, the MMPI wasn't in my battery anyway for those evals.
 
I've done a few trainings and read what's available so far. I just made the choice to move to the 3 last week. I'm skeptical of psychometric data prior to any investigations from third-party authors completely removed from any stake in the measure. I feel more comfortable in this case: the conceptual overlap with the 2-RF and the conceptualization behind the updates suggest (to me, at least) no reason to believe any differences in what 1st and 3rd parties find on the MMPI-3 would be greater than anything we've seen with the MMPI-2-RF. Disclaimer here is that I'd be primarily using this for forensic/police evaluations; I might slow my roll if I were doing assessments more likely to tap into clinical issues the MMPI-3 had more notable modifications to (e.g., eating disorders).

For what it's worth, in one of my trainings one of the MMPI-3 contributors noted some of them have used the MMPI-3 in some forensic evaluations and have had no issues with admissibility (Daubert states I believe).
 
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NotTheHoff said:
the conceptual overlap with the 2-RF and the conceptualization behind the updates suggest (to me, at least) no reason to believe any differences in what 1st and 3rd parties find on the MMPI-3 would be greater than anything we've seen with the MMPI-2-RF.
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This is basically what I've found in my research.

Disclaimer: Pearson and Minnesota have both funded me and although I'm not from the Kent state training program, I have published with that crowd and know them well
 
Is the masculinity/gender scale part of the MMPI-3? Can someone remind me what purpose this scale serves/served?
 
WisNeuro said:
Not yet. I mostly use the MMPI for legal cases, not very relevant for most of my clinical cases. For the legal cases, many of my colleagues are sticking with the MMPI-II-RF for now until more of the legal/litigation lit progresses some more. Until then, just planning on collecting MMPI-3 articles and attending some CEs on it here and there.
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I'm sticking w the 2RF until I see the III regularly utilized in court. It will be adopted eventually, but I want to see more published too.
 
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foreverbull said:
Is the masculinity/gender scale part of the MMPI-3? Can someone remind me what purpose this scale serves/served?
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The Mf scale was dropped in the II-RF, and is also not part of 3. From discussions with some of the authors/developers, it never really predicted anything in modern research, so no one really cared when it was dropped.

As for its original use, partially to examine what they considered homosexual tendencies, which were considered a pathology in the medical community when the test was first developed.
 
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About 2.5 hours into this virtual training and I'm coming around to the MMPI-3. I like the transdiagnostic, dimensional approach. Interesting they changed a lot of the scale names to be less offensive. Definitely a more culturally sensitive/"woke" approach.

Also, feeling vindicated because they spoke about how certain MMPI-2 manuals incorrectly identified the reading level as 8th grade
 
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Glad to see this discussion on here. I teach our personality assessment class and didn't bother with the MMPI-3 last year (since I was scheduled to cover it basically the week it came out) although I did do a 2-hr webinar prior to the release. I also finally fought with Pearson (they SUCK) to get Qglobal access a few weeks ago and we gave our first MMPI-3 last week. I just looked at a few days ago. It's pretty similar to the MMPI-2-RF which I *far* prefer to the MMPI-2 for ease of interpretation with the hierarchical structure. I also appreciate the changes with the norming sample, moving the most confusing scales (looking at you, RC3 Cynicism) and adding ones of value like eating issues.

While we're discussing, it's worth noting that the electronic score report for the PAI actually now includes Alternative Model for Personality Disorder (AMPD) traits scored from PAI items, which makes the PAI easier to incorporate into a HiTOP assessment.
 
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EmotRegulation said:
Glad to see this discussion on here. I teach our personality assessment class and didn't bother with the MMPI-3 last year (since I was scheduled to cover it basically the week it came out) although I did do a 2-hr webinar prior to the release. I also finally fought with Pearson (they SUCK) to get Qglobal access a few weeks ago and we gave our first MMPI-3 last week. I just looked at a few days ago. It's pretty similar to the MMPI-2-RF which I *far* prefer to the MMPI-2 for ease of interpretation with the hierarchical structure. I also appreciate the changes with the norming sample, moving the most confusing scales (looking at you, RC3 Cynicism) and adding ones of value like eating issues.

While we're discussing, it's worth noting that the electronic score report for the PAI actually now includes Alternative Model for Personality Disorder (AMPD) traits scored from PAI items, which makes the PAI easier to incorporate into a HiTOP assessment.
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I much prefer the alternative model, so that's good to know. Yes, it's very similar to the RF. The correlations between the two tests are ridiculously high.
 
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EmotRegulation said:
Glad to see this discussion on here. I teach our personality assessment class and didn't bother with the MMPI-3 last year (since I was scheduled to cover it basically the week it came out) although I did do a 2-hr webinar prior to the release. I also finally fought with Pearson (they SUCK) to get Qglobal access a few weeks ago and we gave our first MMPI-3 last week. I just looked at a few days ago. It's pretty similar to the MMPI-2-RF which I *far* prefer to the MMPI-2 for ease of interpretation with the hierarchical structure. I also appreciate the changes with the norming sample, moving the most confusing scales (looking at you, RC3 Cynicism) and adding ones of value like eating issues.

While we're discussing, it's worth noting that the electronic score report for the PAI actually now includes Alternative Model for Personality Disorder (AMPD) traits scored from PAI items, which makes the PAI easier to incorporate into a HiTOP assessment.
Click to expand...
I've always found the Hitop and most of the other higher-order modeling of psychopathology to be a compelling but simplistic classification model (e.g., Littlefield, Lane, Gette, Watts, & Sher). I like it, and I use it, but it leaves a lot to be desired in terms of inclusion and exclusion criteria for domains.

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Either way, its nice to hear that the PAI incorporates AMPD stuff automatically because it at least allows easier study of those constructs.

EAT works pretty nicely for certain types of eating behaviors (AN / BN) but less so for motivations related to typical masculine behaviors like muscle building - ditto for binge eating as a screening shortcoming. Just presented some work on that this weekend at the MMPI conference.
 
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