MOC

[Shikima]

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A friend (not me) is getting audited by the ABPN for MOC compliance. What are people's thoughts and feelings about this?

I think my own ODD feelings towards the board and blatant actions against physicians is already well documented, but I wanted to get more insight into the process, the meaning, and in the greater context, failing the audit/not maintaining MOC (as they are both one in the same).

 

[splik]

well they dont actually look at what you've done so you could just make it up for the PIP part and the patient safety bit. I think the CME stuff is the only real thing you could be dinged on.

 

[Shikima]

Ding how?

Now for the ODD part of me. CME is already required by state boards but you need to be a certain set of CME which they allow for only that typically involves expensive courses (eg : API). Additionally, I do sleep medicine more than not - the bulk of my education is in this area, not psych. Why wouldn't that count?

 

[milesed]

It is what we sign up for when participating. My state medical board does the same and I was once audited for a 3 year cycle that had ended 4 years previously. I was very glad I'd held onto the certificates. All I had to do was copy and mail in my proof. It's a pain to do, but how else could they make sure we do what we claim?

 

[Shikima]

It is what we sign up for when participating. My state medical board does the same and I was once audited for a 3 year cycle that had ended 4 years previously. I was very glad I'd held onto the certificates. All I had to do was copy and mail in my proof. It's a pain to do, but how else could they make sure we do what we claim?

I get it. But the state board can give you a heap of troubles if you don't show the work. However, what about the ABPN? What can they do?

 

[milesed]

I get it. But the state board can give you a heap of troubles if you don't show the work. However, what about the ABPN? What can they do?

If you are not up to date, they can prohibit you from recertification testing.

 

[TexasPhysician]

If you are not up to date, they can prohibit you from recertification testing.

Thankfully we now have NBPAS.

 

[Shikima]

Thankfully we now have NBPAS.

The tricky part is passing the first hurdle with boards and getting hospitals/insurance companies to recognize this alternative cert process.

 

[PistolPete]

The tricky part is passing the first hurdle with boards and getting hospitals/insurance companies to recognize this alternative cert process.

Agreed. I'm gonna do ABPN for initial certification then likely jump ship. Hopefully in 10 years NBPAS is accepted routinely.

 

[cookymonster]

If NBPAS is routinely accepted and physicians stop doing MOC, these ABMS boards are going to quickly have a financial crisis on their hands. They're probably going to have to dramatically jack up the prices on initial certification or cut costs and salaries beneath what their fat cats will suffer.

Personally, I welcome the possibility of ABMS entering extinction by pricing itself out of resident affordability. Board certification is overrated to begin with. Maintenance of licensure (which hopefully can be nationalized at some point) and completion of residency, which is getting more and more competitive and ACGME standardized, ought to be enough.

I'm not getting my hopes up yet though. Checking the 40 hospitals listed that take NBPAS, they all sound like Eastern Guam Desperate for Doctors Memorial. If it gains any steam, it will be a long time before most of us see evidence of it.

 

[PistolPete]

If NBPAS is routinely accepted and physicians stop doing MOC, these ABMS boards are going to quickly have a financial crisis on their hands. They're probably going to have to dramatically jack up the prices on initial certification or cut costs and salaries beneath what their fat cats will suffer.

Personally, I welcome the possibility of ABMS entering extinction by pricing itself out of resident affordability. Board certification is overrated to begin with. Maintenance of licensure (which hopefully can be nationalized at some point) and completion of residency, which is getting more and more competitive and ACGME standardized, ought to be enough.

I'm not getting my hopes up yet though. Checking the 40 hospitals listed that take NBPAS, they all sound like Eastern Guam Desperate for Doctors Memorial. If it gains any steam, it will be a long time before most of us see evidence of it.

Good points. The only way to change the system is to not pay the ABPN their fees, have THAT pick up steam, so that they end up in a financial crisis. The problem though, is will most psychiatrists do this?

 

[Shikima]

Good points. The only way to change the system is to not pay the ABPN their fees, have THAT pick up steam, so that they end up in a financial crisis. The problem though, is will most psychiatrists do this?

No because physicians are chicken-&$#! to begin with and have been trained to be complacent with administrators. Current medical school and residency training paradigm ensures this.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Good points. The only way to change the system is to not pay the ABPN their fees, have THAT pick up steam, so that they end up in a financial crisis. The problem though, is will most psychiatrists do this?

I certainly am.

 

[Shikima]

I certainly am.

To pay or not to pay, that is the question....

I wonder how many who do not pay will be "audited"?

 

[prominence]

To pay or not to pay, that is the question....

I wonder how many who do not pay will be "audited"?

Audited for what reason?

 

[Shikima]

Audited for what reason?

For not paying MOC and completing the redundant work that is already required by medical boards.

 

[sailor jerry]

If NBPAS is routinely accepted and physicians stop doing MOC, these ABMS boards are going to quickly have a financial crisis on their hands. They're probably going to have to dramatically jack up the prices on initial certification or cut costs and salaries beneath what their fat cats will suffer.

Funny🙂


"Eastern Guam Desperate for Doctors Memorial"

 

[Shikima]

So ABPN releases this recently in an email;

Starting with those who have passed a certification or maintenance of certification exam in 2016, diplomates are now required to complete an approved Patient Safety Activity within the three years prior to board certification/recertification OR in their first C-MOC block (beginning with those whose first block is 2017-2019).

· This one-time requirement ensures diplomates have adequate knowledge of safety science and principles.

 

[666357]

I'm only keeping up with MOC req's b/c of my initial certification (spent too much to let it just go at this point). I think MOC req's are a joke and nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to extort more money from BC shrinks. I won't be renewing my certification at the 10yr mark. I just don't need it.

 

[PistolPete]

Things may be different for you than for me, but now instead of paying for the exam every 10 years, you pay for it in 10 annual installments, so there's not much incentive to continue paying if no intention to renew.

 

[Shikima]

Things may be different for you than for me, but now instead of paying for the exam every 10 years, you pay for it in 10 annual installments, so there's not much incentive to continue paying if no intention to renew.

There is no inclination that this will be happening. Right now it stands as initially contrived with additional work being added on.

 

[PistolPete]

There is no inclination that this will be happening. Right now it stands as initially contrived with additional work being added on.

Looks like it's already happening. Look under annual fee:

https://www.abpn.com/maintain-certi...rtification-program/moc-programs/cmoc-program

 

[Shikima]

The audacity to tell us what kind of CMEs we must have in additional to the money being wasted and pointless extra work.