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Montana 1+3 w/ WSU
Started by NStarz
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Is it WSU that has a similar program with Utah?
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Yes. This is correct. WSU reserves 20 slots for incoming UT residents. UT residents complete their first two didactic years at USU. Apparently, only one year of didactic training is completed at Montana State.
I am a UT state resident, and am applying to the USU/WSU 2+2 program this cycle (among other veterinary schools as an OOS student).
I am also concerned as to how WSU will handle the influx of 'regional' students (UT, ID, MT) during the clinical portion of their education. Do any current WSU students want to chime in here? Are you concerned about this? Do you have any opinions (negative or positive), given the current state of the school?
From the description released from Montana State, it appears as though the students accepted into that state's regional program will be required to A) have strong ties to Montana B) have evidence of possessing a food animal background C) have evidence of desiring a rural animal practice and D) have evidence of the desire to return to Montana following completion of their training. That's what I gathered from the write-up. I'm not certain how this is going to be enforced.
The requirements are not as stringent for the UT program. To enter into the USU/WSU agreement, one must only need to meet the residency requirements for USU and be accepted into the veterinary school. The program focus is left to the student.
It also appeared from the Montana State write-up that WSU's future participation in WICHE is unclear. It seems with this new influx of 'regional' students, that WSU may bail from WICHE.
Are you sure about this? I applied for the USU program but I don't have residency in that state or in the WICHE program. A friend of mine is actually attending USU this year and (as far as I know) she does not have residency in that region either.
Thanks for pointing out my error, BlackDog. I should have been more clear.
The USU/WSU program takes 30 students per year. 20 of these are reserved for UT residents. To be accepted into this pool, you must be a UT state resident. UT state residents pay IS tuition for all 4 years of their vet school education (during their training at USU and at WSU).
The other 10 students can come from any state in the nation, as well as internationally (I believe, although I'd have to check on the international rules). These 10 students do not get an IS tuition break. There are scholarships available that drop the OOS tuition nominally, but nowhere near the IS rate. These OOS folks pay OOS tuition for all 4 years of their vet school education (while attending USU and WSU).
My bad. Thanks for calling me out.
The USU/WSU program takes 30 students per year. 20 of these are reserved for UT residents. To be accepted into this pool, you must be a UT state resident. UT state residents pay IS tuition for all 4 years of their vet school education (during their training at USU and at WSU).
The other 10 students can come from any state in the nation, as well as internationally (I believe, although I'd have to check on the international rules). These 10 students do not get an IS tuition break. There are scholarships available that drop the OOS tuition nominally, but nowhere near the IS rate. These OOS folks pay OOS tuition for all 4 years of their vet school education (while attending USU and WSU).
My bad. Thanks for calling me out.
Where is Abney? She's the perfect person for this discussion.. She's headed to USU this fall..I believe she is from Nevada.
I'm a MT resident starting at the USU/WSU program this year, bummed I missed getting to go instate but excited to start the program in UT. From my understanding the program at MSU is a 1+3 with WSU and the USU program is 2+2. Wondering if this will do away with Wiche for MT residents...
Went to WSU and I would seriously question the quality of the clinical year if a substantial amount of students are added.
My class had 96-ish people. WSU is in the middle of nowhere. Although it gets referrals from all over there just aren't enough cases to go around. Just adding 1 or 2 extra people on a rotation will seriously drop your caseload, hands on learning potential, and clinician interaction time.
Perhaps they will try and make more partners for off-site learning experiences, but that would only drive up student cost (travel and lodging for clinical rotations away from school are difficult).
If they were smart they'd set up a satellite clinic in Spokane, a small city 70 ish miles away, to increase caseload. But I'd be surprised if that happened. (WSU will pay an obscene amount to their football coach though...)
I also don't know how they're going to handle additional lecture space. I know they did some renovations, but the rooms are only so big. When I was there, people would occasionally have to sit on the floor in the back of one lecture hall if they arrived late. They didn't even have full desk space, just those tiny arm-desk chairs that won't fit a binder. Y'all are going to have to get pretty cozy with each other to fit. Or maybe the new Global Animal Health building has a large lecture hall?
My class had 96-ish people. WSU is in the middle of nowhere. Although it gets referrals from all over there just aren't enough cases to go around. Just adding 1 or 2 extra people on a rotation will seriously drop your caseload, hands on learning potential, and clinician interaction time.
Perhaps they will try and make more partners for off-site learning experiences, but that would only drive up student cost (travel and lodging for clinical rotations away from school are difficult).
If they were smart they'd set up a satellite clinic in Spokane, a small city 70 ish miles away, to increase caseload. But I'd be surprised if that happened. (WSU will pay an obscene amount to their football coach though...)
I also don't know how they're going to handle additional lecture space. I know they did some renovations, but the rooms are only so big. When I was there, people would occasionally have to sit on the floor in the back of one lecture hall if they arrived late. They didn't even have full desk space, just those tiny arm-desk chairs that won't fit a binder. Y'all are going to have to get pretty cozy with each other to fit. Or maybe the new Global Animal Health building has a large lecture hall?
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Thanks for the input, lailanni. We appreciate your perspective as a recent WSU alum!
I would question this tactic as well now that I've seen all the crap going on with OSU's new satellite clinic. They're basically stealing clients from their own alumni just for the sake of a few extra bucks. (for those who have no idea what I'm talking about: http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=818679 )
I'll just say that I'm now very glad I was not accepted to WSU/USU. I know it's a great program, but I would not be willing to spend thousands on a vet school education just to be crammed into clinics with three schools worth of fourth year students and have little to no opportunity to develop real clinical skills. It looks to me like WSU just wants to rake in as much tuition money as possible, and no one has given thought to how this plan is going to work long term. Unless they build new, very large facilities, this whole thing is going to cave in 4 or 5 years when the USU and MT students start flooding in. I'd like to think that will be the wake up call that WSU and the AVMA both desperately need, but most likely they'll just use it as an excuse to accredit five more new vet schools. 🙄
I'll stick with my nice little 60-student class at AVC. 😀
Does WSU take Caribbean students for their clinical year?
Based on what lailanni said, I don't think the problem is lack of space or small facilities, but rather lack of cases. It might be hard for a school in the middle of nowhere to bring in more cases. Other schools have a similar problem because of location. Schools like UPenn, OSU and even MSU have a great location so case load is high. There is no easy solution to the problem this school has created for its students.
Yes, WSU does take Caribbean students for their clinical year, though I only remember having 1 or 2 at a time. (We did get one permanent transfer from Ross in second year.)
They also take a good number of international students too. However, international students don't get as many cases unless their english is excellent. I have personally seen international students get a reduced case load because of communication difficulties.
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Yes, please send Penn some more students so I don't have to take care of 4 horses at a time!!
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Indeed this is my situation
I'm reading a lot of negativity about this and I think it might be a bit unwarranted. I just got back from COLE and I asked a lot of questions about how this is working, what is available and possible for students, Logan and Pullman alike. And I asked both faculty and upper classes. There was very, very little that concerned me regarding the quality of education I'm going to receive. A LOT of research has gone into making this program work. It will work out JUST FINE.
I'm really happy about the program I got into actually. Just about all of my professors know me by name and sight. That's pretty special. And we don't feel all that separate from the Pullman students, even from from the Pullman students perspective.
As for the Montana students, they will not be increasing the class size. There will be very few of them and they will very slightly decrease the Washington class size.
I'm really happy about the program I got into actually. Just about all of my professors know me by name and sight. That's pretty special. And we don't feel all that separate from the Pullman students, even from from the Pullman students perspective.
As for the Montana students, they will not be increasing the class size. There will be very few of them and they will very slightly decrease the Washington class size.
Glad to hear it, Abney! The USU/WSU joint venture is a top choice school for me, given that I'm a UT state resident. I'm applying to vet school this year, and am just about ready to submit my VMCAS. I'm just waiting on my last few LORs. I know a few faculty from the USU vet school (although I didn't attend USU as an undergrad), and have already toured the facilities. All in all, it seems like a wonderful opportunity. My only concerns were the increase in size of the clinical classes at WSU, and perhaps the 'distance' component of the education conducted at USU. I have spoken to faculty at USU regarding the distance education, and those fears have been assuaged. You've just helped to alleviate some of my stress regarding WSU class size. Thanks very much!
If you've got any questions regarding Utah (and Logan in particular), don't hesitate to give me a holler! I used to live in Logan, and know quite a bit about the area. Cache Valley is a beautiful place! Natural wonders abound. Be sure to check out Logan Canyon- it truly is a sight to behold. Even though I live in Salt Lake now, I travel up to Logan to visit friends frequently. I enjoy both locations.
I'm glad I could help! And I might hit you up on that info 😉 See you come interview time!
Hahaha, COLE will do that to you 😉 It's a happy place. Even I loved the program right after COLE.
Would be interesting to hear from you 3-4 years from now. Good luck!
