moon lighting...

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You can only moonlight up to a 80 hour work week average, including your residency hours. And your PD can further limit your moonlighting hours as well since you need permission from your program. My program did not allow it at all unless you were on a research year.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
Surgery residency and moonlighting (outside of research)? How is that possible unless you have a cushy residency?
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We didn't have the time in residency (we always worked "80")....we had someone who wanted to moonlight in the ICU during his vacation weeks 😱 who always got a resounding NO from our PD. He also would try coming in for good (or sometimes marginally good) cases every day while on vacation. He was a real beast to work with as well (I was an intern when he was a chief). Can't believe his wife put up with it...
 
Is it true that work weeks are going to 60 and this includes moonlighting?
 
what about working at a different pharmacy in addition to your residency? Say you have a hospital residency and you want to work for someone like Kroger or CVS? How many hours per week do you think you would be able to do without losing your mind?
 
Printo said:
what about working at a different pharmacy in addition to your residency? Say you have a hospital residency and you want to work for someone like Kroger or CVS? How many hours per week do you think you would be able to do without losing your mind?
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I'm assuming that you're referring to PHARMACY residencies.

The general residency forum, which is listed under the physicians section, is for medical residencies.

You might want to post your question in either the pharmacy forum, or the pharmacy residencies forum.
 
You have to meet the criteria of the state licensing board to qualify for the unrestricted license. Step 3 is one part of this, but all states require you to at least complete 1 full year of residency to be fully licensed. Many states require a minimum of 2 full years of residency to qualify for the permanent license, and IMGs may require 3 years. See here for a summary of PGY years required per state for licensure.

In other words, getting a permanent license and moonlighting your first year out of med school isn't an option.

Also, given the new, stricter restrictions on intern hours, you are highly unlikely to get permission from your PD to moonlight (even as you get more senior, they are still likely to not give you permission).
 
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JaggerPlate said:
Is it true that work weeks are going to 60 and this includes moonlighting?
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While I agree with the others that a 60 hour week is probably not right around the corner, the answer to the second part of your question is likely yes. Right now your 80 hour cap includes moonlighting. The whole justification for shortening hours is being described as a public safety issue due to tired residents. It's pretty hard to justify cutting hours from 80 to 60 and then letting folks moonlight for the 20. So basically further cuts in hours likely mean further cuts of moonlighting opportunities.
 
Dumb said:
You are a slacker. You are putting your wants above the needs of dying patients. What a despicable human being. On a side note, I am planning on busting my ass during a TY and then radio residency 😛
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Heh, I'm an MD/PhD who never had any intention of being a full time clinician. At one point, I had even considered not doing a residency at all. Why, oh why, do I let people talk me into things.... 😛

All kidding aside, I don't hate clinical practice, but it's definitely not what I want to do for my career. And I'm not looking to do more of it. As for rads, I hope you don't hate clinical practice either, because a year is a long time to do something you hate.
 
I lucked into a moonlighting gig. I've been doing it 16 hours a week on top of a 40-60 hour/week internship. It's a little exhausting, but the extra money is worth it.

PS: No specific questions about it please as this is institution specific and only available temporarily.
 
😕 Cush is 40 hours a week. This opportunity is institution specific and probably won't exist here next year. I was lucky. Good luck to you.

Edit: I also should note that my program limited me to the 16 hours a week of moonlighting time even though I could do more and not be in violation of ACGME rules. That was simply their policy.
 
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Dumb said:
Nice. I am not sure if these TY programs are just blowing rainbows up my ass, but at many of them, some electives are only 16 hours a week, max, lol. Granted that is not all of the electives, but a good 2-3 months can be set up that way.
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I'm not in the cushest TY. But I think it depends too how much you want to get out of your TY program. I suppose if you tried to cut out on as much as possible you can get one or two electives here down to about 20 hours a week. But, I don't try to skip out on things.
 
As posted before, I am not answering detailed questions about my particular situation, as it is temporary and institution specific. I did not look extensively for moonlighting options, and this is the first (and only?) time moonlighting has been available here.
 
Dumb said:
Also, why exactly are people so hush hush about it if you need approval of your PD? Are people just doing this on the side without the PD's knowledge or do they just not want fellow interns to know about it? If anyone is willing to give even general info that you know your "friend" is doing, please help as I am in desperate need. Thanks!!!
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I am "hush hush" because this is the first and perhaps only time my transitional year program will allow moonlighting. This is a temporary arrangement that will probably not exist next month let alone next year. Many people know which program I attend, and I don't want to setup unrealistic expectations for future residents. Even if you can find another arrangement, it is very possible my program directors will not allow it next year.

As for why you don't get much response on this thread, it's because moonlighting is very uncommon as an intern. Other than a few others at my program who lucked into the same deal I did, I don't know anyone else who has done it. It's slightly more common as a senior resident, but even this is uncommon and program/location specific.
 
Dumb said:
Gotcha...I guess I was looking for general info rather than the specifics of your case but it's all good. Does anyone else know about the type of opportunities available without the license but after passing step 3? What kind of compensation (even if just a range) can I expect as a PGY-1 moonlighter? Does moonlighting include medical writing or do people mean hospital (usually ER) work? Do most PDs allow teaching at Kaplan e.g. if you're a good resident and are strapped for cash?
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In-house intern moonlighting opportunities are becoming more and more rare...I wouldn't expect to find one anywhere if I were you, especially in the ED.

Your best options for making extra case are going to be writing and teaching. Don't expect a clinical opportunity.
 
Moonlighting is HIGHLY program-director dependent.

In my specialty, the ACGME says that you only have to have 10 days of attendance per month on any service in order to receive "credit" for that rotation. Theoretically, that leaves up to 20 other days during the month when you could moonlight. Obviously if you tried to moonlight every one of those other 20 days then you would have duty hours violations, but I've heard of some serious cash being made.

Obvious barriers to doing this are faculty who expect you to be there more than 10 days during a month; and 2) program director. However, I will say that some PDs will give some people the option of moonlighting to a large extent; especially if they rock their inservice scores and are generally known as solid residents. From a PD's perspective this is hazardous because it easily leads to grumbling within the residents as to why one person can moonlight and the other cant. Most PDs dont want any more drama than what already comes with the job, so they make blanket rules for everybody that makes trying to moonlight to a large degree nearly impossible.

Moonlighting pay is all over the place depending on specialty. For peds, the lowest paying specialty, we make about $75 per hour before taxes. I've heard rumors of the adult medicine/surgical residents in our hospital pulling upwards of $300-$400 per hour.

The best moonlighting gigs are of course in rural areas where they are absolutely desperate. These deals usually involve covering multiple days in a row. We just got an offer for a gig in some bumble**** rural town with 25k people in it where you cover a newborn nursery for $12k for a 5 day stretch. They put you up in a hotel and cover your malpractice.
 
Dumb said:
So I am not pretending to know... but it seems that part of the reason why such opportunities seem rare is because people who moonlight during intern year (or any year for that matter) are inclined to be discreet about it.

I assume this is for a variety of probably valid reasons, like losing your own opp, having to share it, forcing the PD to answer questions about it to others, arousing envy of fellow 'terns, garnering a reputation for money-grubbing, etc.
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No, it's because programs and institutions are changing their rules. We used to have two in-house moonlighting opportunities available to interns but due to institutional rule changes, they were both changed to require an unlimited license. One of those has since been taken away from residents completely and only fellows (with unlimited licenses) can do it. Another moonlighting option we used to have (for licensed residents) was taken away as they hired a bunch of FT nocturnists to do it.

I don't think people are being discrete, I think the opportunities just aren't there.
 
Socrates25 said:
Moonlighting pay is all over the place depending on specialty. For peds, the lowest paying specialty, we make about $75 per hour before taxes. I've heard rumors of the adult medicine/surgical residents in our hospital pulling upwards of $300-$400 per hour.

The best moonlighting gigs are of course in rural areas where they are absolutely desperate. These deals usually involve covering multiple days in a row. We just got an offer for a gig in some bumble**** rural town with 25k people in it where you cover a newborn nursery for $12k for a 5 day stretch. They put you up in a hotel and cover your malpractice.
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I'd believe the $12k for 5 days. I'm calling shenanigans on a resident making $300-400/hr (far more than most attendings) unless it was a one time, needing holiday coverage immediately type gig.
 
gutonc said:
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I don't think people are being discrete, I think the opportunities just aren't there.
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it's a little of both. There are plenty of residents in programs which officially and per contract don't allow any moonlighting, but unofficially, with a wink and a nod, people have done moonlighting for years.
 
Law2Doc said:
it's a little of both. There are plenty of residents in programs which officially and per contract don't allow any moonlighting, but unofficially, with a wink and a nod, people have done moonlighting for years.
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In general I agree with you. For interns (without independent licenses) however it's an opportunity thing.
 
Dumb said:
Honestly, it seems that this occurs at nearly every program that prohibits moonlighting. The exception is when duty hours are routinely violated with normal responsibilities, such as in most surgical residencies.

When I ask residents about this on the trail, they will say that the chair or director "frowns upon it" in front of other applicants and residents but will then take me to the side and tell me how they are moonlighting themselves! 😱 Granted, they are usually PGY-2s so the license issue is not applicable but they seem to be going balls to the walls as far as moonlighting is concerned, with no one the wiser.
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This is easier to pull off with outside gigs than in-house moonlighting.

Our GME office has two ways to document your hours. One is a 5 question survey that asks if you violated any duty hour rules in the past month. The other is a calendar that you have to fill in what you did every weekday. In order to get paid from any in-house moonlighting, you have to do the calendar thing. They then cross-check this with the paging system calendar and amion.com (which many but not all of the residency programs use here) and if it doesn't all add up, or you go over hours, you don't get paid AND you get reported to the PD.

But again...the whole "intern doing clinical moonlighting" thing is all but gone.
 
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