Moonlighting???

[TraumaJunkie]

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When is the earliest you can start? I understand that you should have taken Step III and have your license, but how much time after that? Is it program dependent? And how do you go about getting malpractice coverage? Thx!

 

[southerndoc]

Yes, it is program dependent. Some programs will allow internal moonlighting as early as your first year. My program allows us to internally moonlight for $65/hr -- it's basically the same thing as a standard residency teaching shift.

As far as outside moonlighting, I think you should be comfortable with patients before you do this. So I would say the second half of your second year or during your third year. As an intern, you're probably not good enough to moonlight without any supervision. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[TraumaJunkie]

Yes, it is program dependent. Some programs will allow internal moonlighting as early as your first year. My program allows us to internally moonlight for $65/hr -- it's basically the same thing as a standard residency teaching shift.

As far as outside moonlighting, I think you should be comfortable with patients before you do this. So I would say the second half of your second year or during your third year. As an intern, you're probably not good enough to moonlight without any supervision. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Would internal moonlighting basically consist of an ED shift? I can't imagine it would include house call as that would take away from the "educational benefits" of the on call medicine resident... 😎

 

[southerndoc]

It's only ED moonlighting. Only medicine residents can moonlight with the hospitalist service.

 

[FoughtFyr]

At my program we "moonlight" as interns teaching ACLS at $75/hr!

- H

 

[mikecwru]

When is the earliest you can start? I understand that you should have taken Step III and have your license, but how much time after that? Is it program dependent? And how do you go about getting malpractice coverage? Thx!

At our program, the "rule" is the second half of second year. The "reality" is that most places that accept moonlighters want 3rd years. At our program, we have the medical student teaching shifts (6 hrs x 40/hr). In third year, we have lifeflight (40/hr + fun), and there are several common programs that people moonlight at. The two I am signing up for includes a community very close by for 80/hr and one 1+hr away for 95/hr.

mike

 

[MS05']

At my program we "moonlight" as interns teaching ACLS at $75/hr!

- H

I'm all about that!!! I assume you would be teaching paramedics, correct?


Also, what if one wanted to moonlight at an urgent care facitility that wasn't necessarily associated with the university system...could you do it? Would you have to provide your own malpractice if you go outside of the university?

 

[mikecwru]

I'm all about that!!! I assume you would be teaching paramedics, correct?


Also, what if one wanted to moonlight at an urgent care facitility that wasn't necessarily associated with the university system...could you do it? Would you have to provide your own malpractice if you go outside of the university?

I wouldn't blow my wad on ACLS/PALS. You usually show up to teach or test one section and the classes aren't held that frequently so that you're not making very good moonlighting money.

mike

 

[FoughtFyr]

I'm all about that!!! I assume you would be teaching paramedics, correct?


Also, what if one wanted to moonlight at an urgent care facitility that wasn't necessarily associated with the university system...could you do it? Would you have to provide your own malpractice if you go outside of the university?

Actually, we teach medics, nurses, docs, anyone on the campus that needs ACLS. Between initial and recerts, they run about 200 classes a year (keep in mind that I work in a 2000+ bed institution that also owns the EMS system in 5 counties and has roughly 40,000 clinical employees - counting the outlying clinics and medical centers). EM residents account for roughly 10% of the instructors - some cards fellows teach too. When we teach, it is "all day" with a paid lunch hour so the minimum is $450 (6 hours, fist day initial class), the most is $525 (7 hours, recert). It's great - no liability, no medical licensure required (so we can start as interns), the program trained us as instructors, and you build your CV! The only "downside" is it really sucks to work overnight then teach all day (but I've done it 4 times this month! - An extra ~ $1500 after taxes!)

It is a little different then you have at Case, Mike.

As for true "moonlighting", we can do it as second years at system owned urgent care centers. No "outside" work is allowed.

- H

 

[mikecwru]

Actually, we teach medics, nurses, docs, anyone on the campus that needs ACLS. Between initial and recerts, they run about 200 classes a year (keep in mind that I work in a 2000+ bed institution that also owns the EMS system in 5 counties and has roughly 40,000 clinical employees - counting the outlying clinics and medical centers). EM residents account for roughly 10% of the instructors - some cards fellows teach too. When we teach, it is "all day" with a paid lunch hour so the minimum is $450 (6 hours, fist day initial class), the most is $525 (7 hours, recert). It's great - no liability, no medical licensure required (so we can start as interns), the program trained us as instructors, and you build your CV! The only "downside" is it really sucks to work overnight then teach all day (but I've done it 4 times this month! - An extra ~ $1500 after taxes!)

It is a little different then you have at Case, Mike.

As for true "moonlighting", we can do it as second years at system owned urgent care centers. No "outside" work is allowed.

- H

Maybe I'm in a bad mood, but I took this as slightly condescending. Enjoy teaching your ACLS classes.

mike

 

[FoughtFyr]

Maybe I'm in a bad mood, but I took this as slightly condescending. Enjoy teaching your ACLS classes.

mike

Please don't. It wasn't meant that way. I was responding to...

I wouldn't blow my wad on ACLS/PALS. You usually show up to teach or test one section and the classes aren't held that frequently so that you're not making very good moonlighting money.

I was just pointing out that, for us, ACLS is good moonlighting money. That said, if I could moonlight on the whirly bird like you guys, I'd probably be less excited about ACLS!

- H

 

[juddson]

Mike, do you know how moonlighting works in the hospitals around Cleveland? I find the whole issue a sort of black-box, and it seems to me the more I read about it, the less I understand. Given my loan payments, I've come to the conclusion I will almost certainly have to moonlight as soon as I am permitted. Do you know if UH or CC or Metro or VA permits moonlighting for PGY-2's? Inside or outside? etc?

Judd

 

[mugen]

How do we find out which programs accept moonlighting?

 

[mikecwru]

Mike, do you know how moonlighting works in the hospitals around Cleveland? I find the whole issue a sort of black-box, and it seems to me the more I read about it, the less I understand. Given my loan payments, I've come to the conclusion I will almost certainly have to moonlight as soon as I am permitted. Do you know if UH or CC or Metro or VA permits moonlighting for PGY-2's? Inside or outside? etc?

Judd

First, most loan programs have a minimum 3 year forbearance/deferment plan, so even with a large amount of debt, you will not HAVE to moonlight as a PGY-2. I went to CWRU, too, and have as much debt as most people, if not more.

Moonlighting opportunities are less abundant than they were apparently 20 years ago, and it greatly depends on the specialty and individual hospital. In Cleveland, most of the major teaching hospitals do not take moonlighters. Some of the suburban ones do, depending again on the specialty. Metro Lifeflight is an option. Teaching merit badge courses is another option but it can be lesser pay and more sporadic.

mike

 

[a_ditchdoc]

Is anyone familiar with the rules regarding moonlighting for IMGS? I have heard that IMGS are not allowed to moonlight but I am unsure of where to verify this. Any info is appreciated...

 

[MedWiz]

Is anyone familiar with the rules regarding moonlighting for IMGS? I have heard that IMGS are not allowed to moonlight but I am unsure of where to verify this. Any info is appreciated...

AFAIK, "Even" as an IMG you should be able to moonlight IF you have completed all USMLE steps successfully.

 

[southerndoc]

IMG's can moonlight, but foreigners cannot (i.e., you're here on a visa).

 

[MS05']

IMG's can moonlight, but foreigners cannot (i.e., you're here on a visa).

Some programs allow internal moonlighting. I've made nearly 10k this year moonlighting in my program. Not bad for 6 months of the year!

When you do internal moonlighting does your program or affiliated hospital cover the malpractice insurance or do you have to purchase it yourself? What if you're not moonlighting internally...is there a way to temporarily purchase insurance for the 8 or 12 hour block you do moonlight?

 

[southerndoc]

When we do internal moonlighting, it's just an extra shift. It's the same as a teaching shift. Meaning, we still check patients out to senior residents and attendings. An attending is still required to see every patient. So, for this reason, we are covered by the institutional malpractice policy.

 

[MS05']

When we do internal moonlighting, it's just an extra shift. It's the same as a teaching shift. Meaning, we still check patients out to senior residents and attendings. An attending is still required to see every patient. So, for this reason, we are covered by the institutional malpractice policy.

What about off site moonlighting....how does malpractice work then? Do you have to purchase it yourself?

 

[mikecwru]

What about off site moonlighting....how does malpractice work then? Do you have to purchase it yourself?

Malpractice is provided by most institutions when you moonlight, but you should certainly inquire about this and also as to what type of insurance it is.

mike

 

[southerndoc]

If it's offsite moonlighting, then you must arrange for your own malpractice insurance. Either get it yourself or ensure that the hospital where you will moonlight will provide insurance.