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Moonlighting
- Thread starter Dr. Foot
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If you have a full license to practice in that state and carry malpractice insurance over and above what you have through your residency, then you can. BUT you will need your own insurance numbers for each insurance to bill for the services, and also some way to actually bill for your services (either on your own or through a billing service). It's hard to say how much money you can make. That depends on the patient population and what they need done. You also have to consider where you are treating these patients. If it is in the home setting, you get paid less, but don't have to worry about overhead.
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Kidsfeet makes some excellent points. But first and foremost you must read the terms of your residency contract to see if it allows for you to engage in practice outside the hospital or engage in any activity related to practice that is not sanctioned by the hospital or it's affiliates.
And as per Kidsfeet, even if you are allowed to engage in practice outside of their umbrella, I strongly doubt if their malpractice will cover you for these activities.
Kidsfeet also correctly pointed out that in order to provide services for patients (unless you are collecting cash for services), you must be participating with these insurance companies and have your own provider number to bill legally.
Please be careful if a local practice has offered you a part time position and is asking you to treat patients but is billing for those services under one of their physicians. That is NOT legal. It IS legal to show you as the provider with YOUR provider number and bill the services under the groups provider number, but the doctor actually providing the care and that doctor's provider number must also be present on the insurance claim.
So that means that even if working for an existing group, you must have your OWN provider number for each insurance company in order to legally treat and bill any patient.
Move ahead with caution, money is always tempting but there are rules to follow.
And as per Kidsfeet, even if you are allowed to engage in practice outside of their umbrella, I strongly doubt if their malpractice will cover you for these activities.
Kidsfeet also correctly pointed out that in order to provide services for patients (unless you are collecting cash for services), you must be participating with these insurance companies and have your own provider number to bill legally.
Please be careful if a local practice has offered you a part time position and is asking you to treat patients but is billing for those services under one of their physicians. That is NOT legal. It IS legal to show you as the provider with YOUR provider number and bill the services under the groups provider number, but the doctor actually providing the care and that doctor's provider number must also be present on the insurance claim.
So that means that even if working for an existing group, you must have your OWN provider number for each insurance company in order to legally treat and bill any patient.
Move ahead with caution, money is always tempting but there are rules to follow.
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Very, very true!!
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Our program does not permit moonlighting. There are several reasons. First of all resident malpractice does not cover a resident who is acting as an attending by treating patients unsupervised. Temporary state licenses do not permit this activity.
It is a system that is easily abused. Some attendings will essentially be more tempted to misuse the residents and even if their intentions are good usually pay at some absurd rate. Some residents focus more on making money than their training. In the past when moonlighting was permitted, a resident may miss a great teaching case to cover someones office for money. Also the residents should realize that even if you obtain a regular license and purchase regular malpractice, that the discounts you get on premiums now start during residency. When you graduate your rates will now be at the year 2 or 3 rates. You may need a tail to cover you for any work you did as a resident/moonlighting attending particularly if you get a different malpractice carrier after you graduate.
Finally there are the ethical questions. You are either a resident or not. You need supervision or you do not. Is it ethical for a resident in the second year of a three year program to independently treat patients? The schools readily admit that they now train students to enter residency, not to practice. If the resident practices below the standard of care, moves upon graduating (gives up their license when they move), how can the state board respond to a complaint filed by a patient? Then we all look bad. Would you want your mother seen by a year 2 or 3 medical resident who was moonlighting for the local cardiologist? Most MD residencies have stopped the practice of permitting their residents from covering rural or inner city ERs for many of the reasons listed above. Finally, todays residents pay has improved to a point where you can make it. We are finally over the 500/month salaries or even no pay programs of my generation.
It is a system that is easily abused. Some attendings will essentially be more tempted to misuse the residents and even if their intentions are good usually pay at some absurd rate. Some residents focus more on making money than their training. In the past when moonlighting was permitted, a resident may miss a great teaching case to cover someones office for money. Also the residents should realize that even if you obtain a regular license and purchase regular malpractice, that the discounts you get on premiums now start during residency. When you graduate your rates will now be at the year 2 or 3 rates. You may need a tail to cover you for any work you did as a resident/moonlighting attending particularly if you get a different malpractice carrier after you graduate.
Finally there are the ethical questions. You are either a resident or not. You need supervision or you do not. Is it ethical for a resident in the second year of a three year program to independently treat patients? The schools readily admit that they now train students to enter residency, not to practice. If the resident practices below the standard of care, moves upon graduating (gives up their license when they move), how can the state board respond to a complaint filed by a patient? Then we all look bad. Would you want your mother seen by a year 2 or 3 medical resident who was moonlighting for the local cardiologist? Most MD residencies have stopped the practice of permitting their residents from covering rural or inner city ERs for many of the reasons listed above. Finally, todays residents pay has improved to a point where you can make it. We are finally over the 500/month salaries or even no pay programs of my generation.
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👍
It's not so much a boards requirement, but you need a full state license (not just educ limited), AND YOUR OWN MALPRACTICE THAT COVERS MOONLIGHTING to moonlight. A lot of places also make you have your residency director sign off that it's ok.
IMO, if you have a lot of time to moonlight, you should've picked a better residency. Likewise, the time spent moonlighting would ultimately benefit you a lot more if you spent it making connections to get a better job, learn more prac mgmt, or do research/reading (depending on your ultimate goals in pod).
IMO, if you have a lot of time to moonlight, you should've picked a better residency. Likewise, the time spent moonlighting would ultimately benefit you a lot more if you spent it making connections to get a better job, learn more prac mgmt, or do research/reading (depending on your ultimate goals in pod).
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Tragically, as we read most recently in the 2011 match post, not everyone gets the residency they want or think they deserve. Just saying.
agreed
I don't think it isn't so much a tragedy as it is the profession shooting itself in the foot (no pun intended) by allowing many more classroom positions than there are residency positions, even after considering attrition.
All of the podiatry colleges operate as separate businesses, where more=better, whether that means accepting unqualified students or allowing 5, 6, even 7 year programs to finish a 4 year curriculum.
IMHO residencies should be much more competitive for graduating DPM's, which would ultimately increase the strength of our profession.
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I think you missed my point. Even if there were enough residencies to go around, whether you believe it or not, the quality would not be equal. So, some would not get the residency they really want or think they deserve. See?
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I have been moonlighting for ortho trauma and it pays $1200 per 24hr shift. Some of our other residents moonlight doing podiatry housecalls and make around 800-1400 a weekend. We are a very busy program, but there are always opportunities.
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Shouldn't you be getting ready to move???
Hey, a guy's gotta drum up $ to treat the wife well... and to pay his new malprace premiums that come with being Mr SuperTrauma 😉
...did you guys have good Easter holiday?
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With three young kids, my wife is still waiting and will be for some time...
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Mentally Jon, I am already gone. Besides, the hospital is paying a company to move us so I have plenty of time to play a few more rounds of golf before the end of next month.
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I remember the feeling. Things get real serious here in a couple of months for you buddy. I'm on call this week and had to reduce an ankle fracture with a complete talonavicular dislocation at 2am. It took me back to my D town days. I even used Etomidate in honor of DRH.
