Moratorium on URM bashing/affirmative action threads

[1Path]

Is there ANY way to put a stop to these weekly AA threads? I mean really, the overwhelming majority of the URM's I know could care less if folks around here think they are beneficiaries of AA. Not only that, I serioulsy doubt those students who aren't URM's and who have solid applications worry about AA either. So at the end of the day, is ANY ones application to med school improved by these discussions which is supposed to be the purpose of pre-allo?

Free speech is one thing but geez, give it a break already!

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[kevster2001]

I mean really, the overwhelming majority of the URM's I know could care less if folks around here think they are beneficiaries of AA. Not only that, I serioulsy doubt those students who aren't URM's and who have solid applications worry about AA either. So at the end of the day, is ANY ones application to med school improved by these discussions which is supposed to be the purpose of pre-allo?

aren't you being a hypocrite by starting this thread?

 

[1Path]

aren't you being a hypocrite by starting this thread?

There are 5 or so premed websites in cyberspace, but ONLY this one negatively focuses on URMs in the admissions process on a regular bases. Now WHY is that? All I'm asking is for someone in charge to get this "problem" under control, so if that's hypocritical to you, then tough.

 

[Schaden Freud]

Agreed. Anything that can be said about the topic has already been said on this forum a thousand times.

Is there ANY way to put a stop to these weekly AA threads? I mean really, the overwhelming majority of the URM's I know could care less if folks around here think they are beneficiaries of AA. Not only that, I serioulsy doubt those students who aren't URM's and who have solid applications worry about AA either. So at the end of the day, is ANY ones application to med school improved by these discussions which is supposed to be the purpose of pre-allo?

Free speech is one thing but geez, give it a break already!

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

People will complain when their civil rights are violated. For noble goals or not.

 

[Schaden Freud]

Hey if we continue to have URM threads, the terrorists will win. Now are you okay with having your civil rights violated?

People will complain when their civil rights are violated. For noble goals or not.

 

[1Path]

People will complain when their civil rights are violated. For noble goals or not.

So I guess the folks on Minorities in Research and Medicine, Oldpremeds, Mommd, and ValueMD dont' care about their civil rights? Black folks that don't care about civil rights? I guess that's new one on me.

Maybe we just choose to focus on things that will actually HELP our applications to med school, like MCAT prep courses, EC's, personal statements, and LOR's

 

[wolfram241]

aren't you being a hypocrite by starting this thread?

He simply just forgot to indicate that the moratorium applies only to those who are against AA.

 

[kevster2001]

He simply just forgot to indicate that the moratorium applies only to those who are against AA.

Oh I see, he's just calling for a moratorium on the opinions he disagrees with in the interest of fairness.

 

[SoFla62]

There are 5 or so premed websites in cyberspace

It sounds like you have a lot of options then.

Another suggestion might be...if you don't like a thread topic on SDN, don't click on it. You're free to use the resources that are most helpful to you.

 

[1Path]

It sounds like you have a lot of options then. .

Or maybe people who have their act together don't have to complain about NOT getting into med school.

 

[myleghurts]

Or maybe people who have their act together don't have to complain about NOT getting into med school.

There is a 95% chance you are a minority.

 

[Anastasis]

Or maybe people who have their act together don't have to complain about NOT getting into med school.

Um - I have my act together and I still don't know if AA is such a great idea. Not that I actively post in those threads because I don't know all that much about it.

The two things don't really have a correlation, though I'm sure you'd find it convenient if they did.

 

[1Path]

Um - I have my act together and I still don't know if AA is such a great idea. Not that I actively post in those threads because I don't know all that much about it.

Then perhaps having your act together explains WHY you don't complain in THOSE threads!

 

[mdvargas]

I think most of us can agree that med schools make rational decisions (or at least they strongly believe) in choosing their students and know how a matriculate with particular stats has worked out for them in the past, I think this is often a factor in their decisions. There are endless variables into predicting the success of an applicant with less than average qualifications (and URM or low socio-economical status), which has led these kinds of threads to go on, and on,…..

It really comes down to this: graduate w/ MD degree = qualified & deserving of. Pass each USLME =

 

[1Path]

There is a 95% chance you are a minority.

And there's a 100% chance the overwhelming majority of the members of following websites, Mommd, Oldpremeds, ValueMD are NOT minority, yet they don't complain about AA. Hmmmmmm................ Ya know, by focusing on IMPROVING their apps to med school, they may actually be on to something!

 

[Anastasis]

Then perhaps having your act together explains WHY you don't complain in THOSE threads!

No I don't complain in those threads because I don't know enough about AA to come up with a coherent argument. Plus, I don't think debates on the internet (especially about political hotbuttons) really do any good. You're not going to change anyone's mind; you're just screaming into the wind.

This thread for instance, you think it's really going to stop anyone from arguing about AA? Or do you think it just brought the argument back up to the first page? Do you think you really changed the mind of any of the anti-AA people? Or just pissed them off?

 

[1Path]

You're not going to change anyone's mind; you're just screaming into the wind.

The point of this thread isn't to change anyone's mind. THAT would be a fruitless effort indeed. It's simply what the title says, to put a STOP to all these AA threads which invarible turn into a slam fest of URM's on the pre-allo board.

Or just pissed them off?

If 5 other premed sites can prevent the kinds of slanderous statements frequently made in pre-allo in regards to URM's, I certainly don't see why this one can't also. It's simply a matter of pressing delete.

And why on earth would anti-AA people be angry by a thread like this? This certainly isn't an anti-AA bashing thread like, and honestly the ONLY time most of the URM's I know even THINK about AA is when they visit pre-allo. There has been NO name calling, insults, ect ect of anti-AA folks as is the case of 99.9% of the 2000 URM/AA threads in here OR on those other sites. Like I said, we're focusing on what's important in the admissions game.

 

[Instatewaiter]

It really comes down to this: graduate w/ MD degree = qualified & deserving of. Pass each USLME =

I have to disagree with you here. I would say 90% of the people who apply to medical school would be able to pass med school and USMLE. So just getting though does not prove you deserved the nod.

A lot of people think you have to be some sort of close-minded, anti-minority bigot to be anti-AA. Honestly I can't think of anything more anti-minority than AA. It perpetuates the ideas that minorities are incapable of doing it themselves and need help. So when people see Doctor Johnson who is black, went to harvard after getting a 3.9/39 and rocked the USMLE with a score of 259, they see a black doctor not a doctor who is black.

 

[Anastasis]

Is there ANY way to put a stop to these weekly AA threads? I mean really, the overwhelming majority of the URM's I know could care less if folks around here think they are beneficiaries of AA. Not only that, I serioulsy doubt those students who aren't URM's and who have solid applications worry about AA either. So at the end of the day, is ANY ones application to med school improved by these discussions which is supposed to be the purpose of pre-allo?

Free speech is one thing but geez, give it a break already!

And why on earth would anti-AA people be angry by a thread like this? This certainly isn't an anti-AA bashing thread like, and honestly the ONLY time most of the URM's I know even THINK about AA is when they visit pre-allo. There has been NO name calling, insults, ect ect of anti-AA folks as is the case of 99.9% of the 2000 URM/AA threads in here OR on those other sites. Like I said, we're focusing on what's important in the admissions game.

Um. Please reread the bolded section of your original post. You basically implied that the only reason anyone would be anti-AA is because their app isn't strong. That might be why anti-AA people would be angered by this thread.

 

[SoFla62]

Or maybe people who have their act together don't have to complain about NOT getting into med school.

When I said you had options, I was not referring to med school. I was referring to the fact that there are apparently all these other sites that discuss topics you find more pertinent. I would encourage you to use them if you prefer them, rather than complain about our topics.

 

[sirus_virus]

Complaining about the whole URM thing is pathetic, especially when you sit back and look at what URM stand for -- "UNDER-REPRESENTED"

 

[1Path]

You basically implied that the only reason anyone would be anti-AA is because their app isn't strong. That might be why anti-AA people would be angered by this thread.

I didn't sat ANYTHING about anti-AA in my original post, you've basically drawn an illogical conclusion much like those I see in those AA/URM threads. What I'm saying is that people with strong apps don't focus on AA. In fact, I'd guess that the folks focused on AA/URM's, are southerners who attended southern state schools, with "average" apps to med school!

 

[Anastasis]

I didn't sat ANYTHING about anti-AA in my original post, you've basically drawn an illogical conclusion much like those I see in those AA/URM threads.

Oh. My. Gawd.

And you go back on my ignore list.

 

[1Path]

Oh. My. Gawd.

And you go back on my ignore list.

Leeme guess, you're southerner at a southern state school?

 

[mdvargas]

I have to disagree with you here. I would say 90% of the people who apply to medical school would be able to pass med school and USMLE. So just getting though does not prove you deserved the nod.

In my book, if you can do both successfully, you deserve a nod for the accomplishment. The reason for getting an MD and how you'll put it to good use is different and most important than "just getting through".

 

[Instatewaiter]

Complaining about the whole URM thing is pathetic, especially when you sit back and look at what URM stand for -- "UNDER-REPRESENTED"

But why are they under-represented... I mean asians are a minority yet are overwhelmingly represented in medicine, same thing with Indians. Middle easterners, although a minority, are not even given a category. They are lumped in with caucasians.

What about those that are considered URM... Is there a reason...


Feed me, I'm hungry...

 

[Arc]

Can we please end this AA s*** now?

 

[Instatewaiter]

In my book, if you can do both successfully, you deserve a nod for the accomplishment. .

No, what I was getting at is that most people who apply would be able to do both sucessfully yet there are no where near enough seats for everyone. Thus the argument that a person belongs in med school b/c they were able to pass both, does not hold water.

 

[mdvargas]

But why are they under-represented... I mean asians are a minority yet are overwhelmingly represented in medicine, same thing with Indians. Middle easterns, although a minority, are not even given a category. They are lumped in with caucasians.

What about those that are considered URM... Is there a reason...


Feed me, I'm hungry...

"Under-represented" and "minority" are two different things. Asians, middle easterns, etc. are minorities but not under-represented in medicine. Also, being under-represented is not limited to ethnicity, you can be URM status if you're at or below the poverty line, for example.

 

[sentry]

Leeme guess, you're southerner at a southern state school?

I think this is my favorite part of AA threads -- people who accuse all southerners of having prejudice -- the irony kills me

 

[1Path]

I think this is my favorite part of AA threads -- people who accuse all southerners of having prejudice -- the irony kills me

Why would you say that? I'm a Southerner, who attended a Southern State school, and I'm not prejudice? BTW, Go Gators!

 

[sentry]

1Path -- Sorry, I misread what you meant -- I stand by what I said, but not in your case (you were just referring to the use of the word "gawd"

 

[Instatewaiter]

"Under-represented" and "minority" are two different things. Asians, middle easterns, etc. are minorities but not under-represented in medicine. Also, being under-represented is not limited to ethnicity, you can be URM status if you're at or below the poverty line, for example.

Exactly... they are a minority in america but were able to enter the medical field w/o problems. It seems asians, indians and middle easterners were able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps while those that are considered URM were not... why do you think that is?

Still hungry...

 

[mintendo]

This thread is...something.

 

[1Path]

1Path -- Sorry, I misread what you meant -- I stand by what I said, but not in your case (you were just referring to the use of the word "gawd"

Assumptions, inferences are going to be the death of this great thread.

 

[1Path]

OK, so who wants to add their username to the list of those who are tired of these same old AA/ anti-URM threads being posted every week.

1Path

 

[sentry]

Assumptions, inferences are going to be the death of this great thread.

Assumption #1: "Not only that, I serioulsy doubt those students who aren't URM's and who have solid applications worry about AA either."


People have the right to talk about whatever they want to -- let it rest

 

[Instatewaiter]

OK, so who wants to add their username to the list of those who are tired of these same old AA/ anti-URM threads being posted every week.

1Path

of course because you have no argument. Change the subject and maybe no one will even realize you are dodging a question.

 

[8744]

So I guess the folks on Minorities in Research and Medicine, Oldpremeds, Mommd, and ValueMD dont' care about their civil rights? Black folks that don't care about civil rights? I guess that's new one on me.

Maybe we just choose to focus on things that will actually HELP our applications to med school, like MCAT prep courses, EC's, personal statements, and LOR's

How is Affirmative Action a civil right?

If URM status didn't help your application you wouldn't obsess about it.

 

[nebbione]

Is there ANY way to put a stop to these weekly AA threads? I mean really, the overwhelming majority of the URM's I know could care less if folks around here think they are beneficiaries of AA. Not only that, I serioulsy doubt those students who aren't URM's and who have solid applications worry about AA either. So at the end of the day, is ANY ones application to med school improved by these discussions which is supposed to be the purpose of pre-allo?

Free speech is one thing but geez, give it a break already!

1Path - this is a forum, that is, a place of discussion. If you are afraid of discussion, log off, or don't click. Why suppress speech in a place of freedom of speech only because one or two people are annoyed? Go to Russia if you dislike freedom.

 

[mdvargas]

Exactly... they are a minority in america but were able to enter the medical field w/o problems. It seems asians, indians and middle easterners were able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps while those that are considered URM were not... why do you think that is?

Still hungry...

Why do you think URM's are not able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Do they not have a backbone or the motivation to pass each undergrad course and stand out from the crowd for the application process like everyone else? Obvioulsy the URM's that are currently in the med field got in without a problem, whatever that "problem" you're refering to is.....

 

[nebbione]

1Path - this is a forum, that is, a place of discussion. If you are afraid of discussion, log off, or don't click. Why suppress speech in a place of freedom of speech only because one or two people are annoyed? Go to Russia if you dislike freedom.

Better yet, go to my Iran, and ask Khomenei if he will put a moratorium on talking. I am sure he will listen, as long as you are wearing your hijab.

 

[1Path]

How is Affirmative Action a civil right?

If URM status didn't help your application you wouldn't obsess about it.

Why don't you ask the person Ryo-Ohki who FIRST posted something about civil rights in this thread??
BTW, WHERE DID I POST ANYTHING ABOUT AA BEING A CIVIL RIGHT?

Southerner: Check
Southern State School, and LSWho none the less: Double Check!

 

[Instatewaiter]

Why do you think URM's are not able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Do they not have a backbone or the motivation to pass each undergrad course and stand out from the crowd for the application process like everyone else? Obvioulsy the URM's that are currently in the med field got in without a problem, whatever that "problem" you're refering to is.....

I was talking as a group. As a group URMs are URMs because they were not able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Were asians not able to cut it, they too would be part of the URMs.

This is why we need afirmative action, because some groups can't cut it.

 

[1Path]

OK, so who wants to add their username to the list of those who are tired of these same old AA/ anti-URM threads being posted every week.

1Path

1Path

 

[ms2007plz]

Yeah, I'm not a URM, but I do get kind of annoyed when people complain about that being the only reason why they don't get into medical school. I mean tons of white/asian people get in every year, if you can't get in, there's something missing from your application that the MAJORITY of applications have. That said, it's a frustrating process and rejection makes people need ways to make themselves feel better. Just ignore the threads if they really push your buttons...

 

[Instatewaiter]

Again there you go. You have no argument so the best thing to do is act like it's not there. Just change the subject, that way no one can see that you actually don't have anything intelligent to say.

 

[mintendo]

Why do you think URM's are not able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? Do they not have a backbone or the motivation to pass each undergrad course and stand out from the crowd for the application process like everyone else? Obvioulsy the URM's that are currently in the med field got in without a problem, whatever that "problem" you're refering to is.....

The misconception here is people associate under-represented with under-privilieged. It's possible that some groups are under-represented because they are under-privileged, but one does not equal the other.

 

[myleghurts]

1Path

Those who support URM/AA Debates:

myleghurts
George Bush
Clarence Thomas