AMEHigh

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The AOA (and ACGME) can't just make new residency spots. Congress passed legislation about 15 years ago to balance the budget that doesn't allow residency spots to increase. So yes it's a funding issue. If a hospital wants to create more neurology spots they would have to decrease the number of spots from another specialty.
 

NurWollen

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The AOA (and ACGME) can't just make new residency spots. Congress passed legislation about 15 years ago to balance the budget that doesn't allow residency spots to increase. So yes it's a funding issue. If a hospital wants to create more neurology spots they would have to decrease the number of spots from another specialty.
There are exceptions to this. If a hospital has never had any residencies before, they can get funding.
 

Mad Jack

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The AOA isn't making anything anymore. Everything is going ACGME due to the merger. Look carefully at any AOA programs, as some might not make the cut post-merger.
 
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The AOA isn't making anything anymore. Everything is going ACGME due to the merger. Look carefully at any AOA programs, as some might not make the cut post-merger.
Do you have a source on this? Surely there will be at least some new AOA programs coming out before the pre-accreditation period starts July 2015. Can an OGME program just skip AOA accreditation and go straight for the ACGME pre-accreditation?
 
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Silent Cool

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I wish AOA would make more Neurology programs, is funding an issue? it seems to me that the amount of slots available is just not consistent with the number of graduates.

I have a lot of red flags on my application and I don't think ACGME programs will be as forgiving as AOA. However, the amount AOA spots are so limited in this specialty for some reason.
What kind of red flags are we talking about?
 

hallowmann

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Do you have a source on this? Surely there will be at least some new AOA programs coming out before the pre-accreditation period starts July 2015. Can an OGME program just skip AOA accreditation and go straight for the ACGME pre-accreditation?
Any OGME would have to get some form of accreditation or certification regardless. That said, it would only make sense for there to be a way for a new OGME program to jump to ACGME accreditation without passing through AOA accreditation first.

Based on what I've heard, programs that were going to start taking residents in 2015, still are starting, but others that were planning to apply are holding off to see how the process will unfold. Hopefully the AOA will provide the guidelines from the committees responsible for osteopathic accreditation of GME soon.
 
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What kind of red flags are we talking about?

thanks for the tips guys, it puts things into perspective.

i failed comlex pe, <500 COMLEX I, and around a ~400 on COMLEX II despite taking a month off to study. retaking COMLEX II PE next couple of weeks hopefully.

with those red flags, i don't know if acgme is going to forgive me in neuro.
 

Silent Cool

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thanks for the tips guys, it puts things into perspective.

i failed comlex pe, <500 COMLEX I, and around a ~400 on COMLEX II despite taking a month off to study. retaking COMLEX II PE next couple of weeks hopefully.

with those red flags, i don't know if acgme is going to forgive me in neuro.
Hrm.
I'm no expert, but from what I understand Neuro is generally non-competitive. I'm betting that a decent ACGME program will take you.
 
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OP
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Well, it's easier said than done. I did not take any USMLE exam.

Also, it's very difficult for a PD to give someone a chance who failed an exam that has a 99% first time pass rate. I honestly think I would have been better off failing the COMLEX 2 CE instead of the PE. I wouldn't have looked so awful then. With failing the PE, a lot of people just assume that you must be a really awful human being who lacks empathy and the ability to speak english in a coherent manner.
 

hallowmann

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Well, it's easier said than done. I did not take any USMLE exam.

Also, it's very difficult for a PD to give someone a chance who failed an exam that has a 99% first time pass rate. I honestly think I would have been better off failing the COMLEX 2 CE instead of the PE. I wouldn't have looked so awful then. With failing the PE, a lot of people just assume that you must be a really awful human being who lacks empathy and the ability to speak english in a coherent manner.
I was under the impression that PE has a ~95% pass rate, and unlike the other ones grading is more subjective. From what I've heard, all programs care about is that you pass the PE so you can get a license. Anyone can have a bad day, so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it, so just pass as soon as possible and move past it.

I think you'd be surprised by the response you'd get if you apply broadly to ACGME neuro. Obviously also apply AOA and have a backup, but don't rule it out just because you think programs will disregard your app. Worst case scenario you lose a little bit of money trying to get the specialty you want.

Also, here's an article from 2010 about the PE:

http://beta.jaoa.osteopathic.org/content/110/3/114.full

2008-2009 pass rate was 94.7%.

Also, if it makes you feel better, many people at my school fail the PE because of the "humanistic domain", and it seems like it's more an issue of getting it in your head that this is a real patient not an actor rather than them actually lacking empathy. Work on being a good actor and you should be fine.
 

Dharma

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ACGME programs are well within reach OP. No need to worry about more AOA, even though as many have said, this is pretty moot at this point.
 
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Dharma

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From what I've heard, all programs care about is that you pass the PE so you can get a license. Anyone can have a bad day, so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it, so just pass as soon as possible and move past it.
Yep. Failing COMLEX 2 would have been waaaaaaaaaaaay worse.
 
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I wish you guys were PD's. no one is giving me a chance. They think that Im worthless to be failing an exam as easy as the PE.

People would rather take an IMG with Steps taken and broken english than deal with me. Not a single interview invitation.
 

hallowmann

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I wish you guys were PD's. no one is giving me a chance. They think that Im worthless to be failing an exam as easy as the PE.

People would rather take an IMG with Steps taken and broken english than deal with me. Not a single interview invitation.
Did you retake and pass PE? That'd be kind of important. They have to know you can get a license. Also, isn't it still early for ACGME programs? Like hasn't it been only like 11 days since programs have received apps?
 
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I am going to re-take the PE this next month. The results will take almost 6-8 weeks to get to programs so early December is when they will receive it. It has been 11 days, but programs are already offering interviews. I'm applying to Psychiatry primarily as that's what will be in the cards for me long term. I love the overlap with Neurology and its all by the ABPN. I don't want to apply to AOA programs though, I am sick and tired of studying OMM and will be relieved when I finish COMLEX 3.