MORE Volunteering = LESS Desirable Applicant?

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Do you think "volunteering" is flawed in the context of admissions?

  • Yes

    Votes: 85 59.9%
  • No

    Votes: 57 40.1%

  • Total voters
    142

Planes2Doc

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This thread either seems paradoxical, or like a troll thread at first glance.

But the more you think of it, it's true. Why make this thread? Because I felt like I was forced to sacrifice a considerable amount of time (and forfeit potential income) when I still had a life. Today I have sacrificed everything I have for my medical education, I believe other people are paying the same price.

Volunteering and ECs can either help or harm an applicant. But I think the volunteering game has finally reached its tipping point, where it's gotten to the extreme where it is mostly hurting applicants, volunteer organizations, and schools themselves. How is it hurting everyone? Applicants are hurt because they are going completely overboard when it comes to the number of volunteer activities and hours that they are putting in. So many are pissing their last years of freedom doing activities they don't want to do, just to put on a song and dance to impress ADCOMs. How are organizations getting harmed? Well, premeds don't have a piss poor reputation for nothing. They screw over hospitals and other organizations because they either half-ass their responsibilities, or are very flaky due to no oversight by schools. How are schools getting harmed? Well if the school is service-oriented and has a large number of applicants that magically picked up a handful of activities when they officially became premed, then who do you think the school is really choosing?

Now to tie this to the thread's title... I am a non-traditional applicant and was in the working world for some time. I met just a couple people (out of many) that devoted a lot of their time to serving the community. They received a lot of recognition at the office. But the funny thing is that they would look like heartless bastard when you compare them to so many applicants in the WAMC threads with "average" ECs. Everyone and their mother has volunteered in a hospital, hospice, free clinic, tutored underprivileged youth, ladled soup in a soup kitchen, did Big Brother Big Sister, coached underprivileged youth, and so many other activities.

But let me ask you this... Do you think it's possible for so many applicants to suddenly go from ZERO TO MOTHER TERESA in just a couple days? I never realized that people can change so suddenly! What's more disheartening is that everyone insults one another on SDN. Either someone is saying that their volunteer activity is "superior" or they are insulting someone because they don't enjoy their volunteering.

It's probably gunners that are going from ZERO TO MOTHER TERESA so quickly. If everyone hates gunners so much, and gunners are the ones guinning for ROADs residencies, then don't you think schools are picking the "wrong" applicants if they choose the ones with a laundry-list of activities? I'm not saying they will make good or bad doctors, because providing free labor doesn't mean squat. But isn't it kind of paradoxical that the "Mother Teresa" applicants are probably the ones that care least about service? I'm not saying that this applies to EVERYONE, but I doubt that premeds are magically more morally righteous than other people.

Does anyone see something wrong with the direction that ECs have taken in the medical admissions process? It's become a race to the bottom. A race to see who can put on the most believable facade, even though it's obvious that they are full of $h!t. Does anyone think this process is flawed? What can be done to fix it?

Sorry, needed to vent. :scared:

/rant

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I don't think volunteerism should be a criteria for admissions. If you want to volunteer then that's great but volunteerism has nothing to do with being a competent medical student or physician.
 
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Volunteering/ECs are more than just a category on the application. You draw experiences from it as an applicant, an interviewee, medical student, and as a physician. If you can't, your volunteer experiences are overrated.

In my opinion, adcoms don't really care what you did or for how long, just as long as you did a few things outside of school. They claim they do, but GPA and MCAT are waaaay more important.
 
I would propose eliminating the section of the application specifying the number of hours a week you dedicate to a certain activity. Medical schools stress quality over quantity anyway, and this change would support that. Volunteering activities routinely contain a lot of "fluff" hours, and when the pressure to obtain (x) number of hours disappears, so does the volunteer activity after a significant point of experience. There is no point in volunteering at a hospice for 1000 hours if your primary goal is to experience personal growth. That occurs well before the 100 hour mark.
 
I posted this before in a previous thread, but I'll c/p it here because it's relevant.

When someone does a kind act, but only because there is a reward at the end (getting into med school), it is not actually a kind act. It is a chore. Or job. Or trade. Or investment. Regardless of what you want to call it, it is not done out of kindness of their hearts.

The problem I see is that all of these resume-padders are, in essence, lying. They are acting like Mother Theresa SOLELY to get into med school--NOT because such altruistic actions are a part of their actual nature.



These days, most people view ECs as simple checkoff items that must be done in order to get into med school. The majority of them don't "learn" anything about altruism during their period doing hippotherapy with mentally disabled children (or w/e), they learn how to saddle horses and clean hooves and be safe and do paperwork and all that.

The whole EC part of the application--along with interview questions asking "what did you learn when you were a hippotherapy instructor?"--serves to benefit solely those who can lie through their teeth and cry crocodile tears at all the right times. The honest kids end up on the waitlist because they are not as remarkable.
 
good rant. this is beating a dead horse though. you're wasting energy debating an age philosophical question of whether philanthropy should be done for its own sake.

the point of volunteering is to get some exposure with patients to have something to talk about at an interview. Nobody is expecting you to be a saint.
 
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You raise a good point but I still think volunteering has its benefits. Volunteering a few hours at a local hospital or clinic will help you get some real experience and develop your social skills, and it won't really have that much of a negative impact on your social life.

For those that have insane volunteering hours, who cares? Either they're gunners sacrificing their social lives or they are people who genuinely enjoy volunteering. So what's it to you? At the end of the day you need volunteering to get into a good med school and it will also benefit you in your future as a physician, so I'm not really sure where the problem is...
 
You raise a good point but I still think volunteering has its benefits. Volunteering a few hours at a local hospital or clinic will help you get some real experience and develop your social skills, and it won't really have that much of a negative impact on your social life.

For those that have insane volunteering hours, who cares? Either they're gunners sacrificing their social lives or they are people who genuinely enjoy volunteering. So what's it to you? At the end of the day you need volunteering to get into a good med school and it will also benefit you in your future as a physician, so I'm not really sure where the problem is...

Some real experience doing what? Stocking shelves, transporting food, delivering medical equipment to technicians, hating myself for ever putting myself in a position to volunteer?
 
I know MANY people who have done very little volunteering and have had fantastic admissions cycles. I think everyone should stop listening to SDNers and start doing things they are passionate about. Adcoms are much more dynamic than people around here give credit for. Volunteering is one of many ways to grow as a person and if you can show you developed through other activities you will be fine.

With that said, serving others (especially those that are in need) whilst sacrificing some "freedom" is a part of being a physician today believe it or not. That's just the reality of healthcare in the US. If you aren't willing to or interested in sacrificing a little to serve others in need, why would one expect you to later?

You DO NOT have to volunteer in a hospital. You do not have to do something you aren't interested in or something mundane. Go teach, raise money in honor of a family member for a local relay for life, help cook at a homeless shelter (If you like to cook), go abroad and help a physician during a mission trip (which is also a great shadowing opportunity)... there are a million fun and interesting ways to serve others.

If you are into research... schools that suit your interests tend to not care as much about volunteering. But analogously, you can't expect a research oriented school to look positively at someone who wanted to "take their last minutes of freedom" in exchange for starting to build research experience. That's just my 2 cents though.
 
I posted this before in a previous thread, but I'll c/p it here because it's relevant.

When someone does a kind act, but only because there is a reward at the end (getting into med school), it is not actually a kind act. It is a chore. Or job. Or trade. Or investment. Regardless of what you want to call it, it is not done out of kindness of their hearts.

The problem I see is that all of these resume-padders are, in essence, lying. They are acting like Mother Theresa SOLELY to get into med school--NOT because such altruistic actions are a part of their actual nature.



These days, most people view ECs as simple checkoff items that must be done in order to get into med school. The majority of them don't "learn" anything about altruism during their period doing hippotherapy with mentally disabled children (or w/e), they learn how to saddle horses and clean hooves and be safe and do paperwork and all that.

The whole EC part of the application--along with interview questions asking "what did you learn when you were a hippotherapy instructor?"--serves to benefit solely those who can lie through their teeth and cry crocodile tears at all the right times. The honest kids end up on the waitlist because they are not as remarkable.


I think this is where the major flaw in the argument is...

Med school's don't expect you to be a saint

They want to see that you are a well rounded individual with certain experiences. They want to see that in addition to having a good academic record, that you are also involved in various activities like sports, volunteering, school clubs, hobbies, etc. because these things help give them an insight into your experience with interacting with people and your experience in different life situations.

Now let's say you don't enjoy volunteering. Med schools still want to see that you are willing to devote some of your time to others.
 
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I think this is where the major flaw in the argument is...

Med school's don't expect you to be a saint

They want to see that you are a well rounded individual with certain experiences. They want to see that in addition to having a good academic record, that you are also involved in various activities like sports, volunteering, school clubs, hobbies, etc. because these things help give them an insight into your experience with interacting with people and your experience in different life situations.

Now let's say you don't enjoy volunteering. Med schools still want to see that you are willing to devote some of your time to others.

Volunteering for the purposes of well rounded-ness is flawed. I can lead, work on a team, teach, or serve others through a PAID JOB. I'm not gaining anything as a person by providing a hospital or a tutoring facility with free labor.
 
At first I was like:

:troll:

But then I was like:

1VOT
 
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Some real experience doing what? Stocking shelves, transporting food, delivering medical equipment to technicians, hating myself for ever putting myself in a position to volunteer?

No, I mean real experience like discharging patients and talking to them after operations, delivering flowers/gifts to patients and making sure they're comfortable in their rooms, escorting the families of patients and explaining what's going on while they wait when the nurses are too busy, getting to witness certain procedures like bronchoscopies, the reading of x-rays, and so on. Those are all things I got to do at my local hospital as a volunteer, and they helped me build the social skills needed when interacting with patients and families. Plus I got to witness a lot of cool things like I just mentioned.

Honestly it's your fault if you decide to choose an easy or lame volunteering job. The key is to choose an opportunity where you'll be doing something MEANINGFUL :thumbup:
 
Volunteering for the purposes of well rounded-ness is flawed. I can lead, work on a team, teach, or serve others through a PAID JOB. I'm not gaining anything as a person by providing a hospital or a tutoring facility with free labor.

Like I said, it's also about showing people that you are willing to devote some of your time for the sake of helping others and not for the sake of a few bucks.

If you can't appreciate that then I'm afraid you're looking at the wrong profession

And you do gain a ton of things as a volunteer: experience dealing with others, develop social skills, meet people who can provide you with connections, etc.
 
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Like I said, it's also about showing people that you are willing to devote some of your time for the sake of helping others and not for the sake of a few bucks.

If you can't appreciate that then I'm afraid you're looking at the wrong profession

And you do gain a ton of things as a volunteer: experience dealing with others, develop social skills, meet people who can provide you with connections, etc.

If you can't appreciate the reality of medicine then you're in the wrong profession. Many paid jobs are service oriented. Medicine is not unique in this sense. Not wanting to work for free does not make one a poor physician. Nearly a third of physicians choose not to volunteer at all. http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/lifestyle/2012/family-medicine
 
I'm confused.... "hurt" due to such intangibles is not "less desirable". Yes the EC game can be BS but it doesn't make someone less desirable to Adcoms.

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I love volunteering. It seems that all my profound experiences has been where I am someone's bitch.

There was a particular day where I was talking to a patient and after a few hours of connecting with her, I became her confidant. I was just so connected to her soul and my inner magnetism really came forth. We eventually held hands and she kissed them and I closed my eyes. At that point, I saw a deep light emerge from the roof, something that resembled a celestial celebration and from that came a spiraling staircase from the shimmering light. As I put my hands on that rail, I knew there was something valuable at the top. I immediately began to ascend slowly up the stairs....

Anyways, the experience was cut short by a nosy staff member who came in to check whether I had made the beds correctly. I told the patient that was amazing. She had the gift of touch and I wanted to spend the rest of my life exploring that feeling, that vibe. She is my heart.

Volunteering my time is very important to me because I get to meet so many interesting people and often get so immersed into the souls of the people I work with. That deep insight into lives. It will come in handy. You number-crunching, box checking premeds can go to hell. I love spending countless hours doing absolutely nothing that will benefit the patient or impact my education as a future medical student, and if you guys want to hate, that is fine by me. :)


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No, I mean real experience like discharging patients and talking to them after operations, delivering flowers/gifts to patients and making sure they're comfortable in their rooms, escorting the families of patients and explaining what's going on while they wait when the nurses are too busy, getting to witness certain procedures like bronchoscopies, the reading of x-rays, and so on. Those are all things I got to do at my local hospital as a volunteer, and they helped me build the social skills needed when interacting with patients and families. Plus I got to witness a lot of cool things like I just mentioned.

Honestly it's your fault if you decide to choose an easy or lame volunteering job. The key is to choose an opportunity where you'll be doing something MEANINGFUL :thumbup:

:thumbup:

Too much whiny cynicism about volunteering around here recently.

If you don't want to volunteer because your altruistic qualities are better demonstrated through paid positions, then don't. If those qualities are as illustrated by that paid position as you claim then it should be a non-issue for Adcoms.

Additionally, I don't think what's considered "necessary" volunteering around SDN is anywhere near normal for most applicants, especially if you aren't set on going to more service-driven schools.

And lastly, if you really hated spending a few hours a week volunteering in a hospital, why are you going to med school? Not all tasks are glamorous, but if you really got no enjoyment and learned nothing...you're doing it wrong.
 
I know MANY people who have done very little volunteering and have had fantastic admissions cycles. I think everyone should stop listening to SDNers and start doing things they are passionate about. Adcoms are much more dynamic than people around here give credit for. Volunteering is one of many ways to grow as a person and if you can show you developed through other activities you will be fine.

With that said, serving others (especially those that are in need) whilst sacrificing some "freedom" is a part of being a physician today believe it or not. That's just the reality of healthcare in the US. If you aren't willing to or interested in sacrificing a little to serve others in need, why would one expect you to later?

You DO NOT have to volunteer in a hospital. You do not have to do something you aren't interested in or something mundane. Go teach, raise money in honor of a family member for a local relay for life, help cook at a homeless shelter (If you like to cook), go abroad and help a physician during a mission trip (which is also a great shadowing opportunity)... there are a million fun and interesting ways to serve others.

If you are into research... schools that suit your interests tend to not care as much about volunteering. But analogously, you can't expect a research oriented school to look positively at someone who wanted to "take their last minutes of freedom" in exchange for starting to build research experience. That's just my 2 cents though.

Nice try, mother teresa gunner OP is talking about ;)

Seriously though, I agree that the options you listed - teaching, starting a fundraiser, going abroad - sound like fabulous alternatives. Part of the road to being a physician, and adult life in general, is doing a bunch of crap you don't want to. Especially the direction healthcare looks to be turning to, incomes are probably going to go down. Medicine IMHO has a huge service aspect to it. Also, to add, I highly doubt that the "mother teresa" types OP is talking about are "full of $hit" about their volunteering experiences. When they first signed up for the many volunteering gigs they have they were probably full of ****, but I don't think you can spend so many hours over an extended period of time without getting to enjoy and value that experience. Either that, or quit early.

I disagree though, when you say nobody is FORCED to volunteer in a hospital. It's become one of those things where it doesn't look fantastic that you did it, but it will look awful if you haven't. I suppose you could get your clinical volunteering by doing an exciting mission trip, but those are often too expensive for most people's reach, or very short-term "voluntouring" gigs that look just as shallow as someone paperpushing at a hospital for the hours.
 
I know MANY people who have done very little volunteering and have had fantastic admissions cycles. I think everyone should stop listening to SDNers and start doing things they are passionate about. Adcoms are much more dynamic than people around here give credit for. Volunteering is one of many ways to grow as a person and if you can show you developed through other activities you will be fine.

With that said, serving others (especially those that are in need) whilst sacrificing some "freedom" is a part of being a physician today believe it or not. That's just the reality of healthcare in the US. If you aren't willing to or interested in sacrificing a little to serve others in need, why would one expect you to later?

You DO NOT have to volunteer in a hospital. You do not have to do something you aren't interested in or something mundane. Go teach, raise money in honor of a family member for a local relay for life, help cook at a homeless shelter (If you like to cook), go abroad and help a physician during a mission trip (which is also a great shadowing opportunity)... there are a million fun and interesting ways to serve others.

If you are into research... schools that suit your interests tend to not care as much about volunteering. But analogously, you can't expect a research oriented school to look positively at someone who wanted to "take their last minutes of freedom" in exchange for starting to build research experience. That's just my 2 cents though.

Very well said when read in addition with the OP. I've had fun doing my volunteering but its been expensive driving all over the place literally hours away for more than a year. And sometimes it may hurt the applicant rather than help because it may cut into their school work or their hobbies.
 
Volunteering for the purposes of well rounded-ness is flawed. I can lead, work on a team, teach, or serve others through a PAID JOB. I'm not gaining anything as a person by providing a hospital or a tutoring facility with free labor.

You gain Christ
 
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Nice try, mother teresa gunner OP is talking about ;)

Seriously though, I agree that the options you listed - teaching, starting a fundraiser, going abroad - sound like fabulous alternatives. Part of the road to being a physician, and adult life in general, is doing a bunch of crap you don't want to. Especially the direction healthcare looks to be turning to, incomes are probably going to go down. Medicine IMHO has a huge service aspect to it. Also, to add, I highly doubt that the "mother teresa" types OP is talking about are "full of $hit" about their volunteering experiences. When they first signed up for the many volunteering gigs they have they were probably full of ****, but I don't think you can spend so many hours over an extended period of time without getting to enjoy and value that experience. Either that, or quit early.

I disagree though, when you say nobody is FORCED to volunteer in a hospital. It's become one of those things where it doesn't look fantastic that you did it, but it will look awful if you haven't. I suppose you could get your clinical volunteering by doing an exciting mission trip, but those are often too expensive for most people's reach, or very short-term "voluntouring" gigs that look just as shallow as someone paperpushing at a hospital for the hours.

This seems pretty spot-on; it makes sense that medical schools would want to see volunteer work at a hospital (or any other clinical location) because it exposes potential students to medicine. I think that is one of the main reasons it is so important: not for the altruism necessarily, but because everyone does it, as it serves as a logical introduction to medicine.

As it is, it DOES seem like SDNers overestimate how much volunteering is "necessary." As long as you do a couple of things and show that you're devoted to them, and make sure adcoms can see that you're well-rounded, willing to help others, can be a team player, understand the realities of being a physician, and can handle the rigors have the field, you'll be admitted. I'm sure there's more than one way to demonstrate that, but it's important to show them all. The way I see it, volunteering, especially clinical volunteering, demonstrate many of those things.
 
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There was a particular day where I was talking to a patient and after a few hours of connecting with her, I became her confidant. I was just so connected to her soul and my inner magnetism really came forth. We eventually held hands and she kissed them and I closed my eyes. At that point, I saw a deep light emerge from the roof, something that resembled a celestial celebration and from that came a spiraling staircase from the shimmering light. As I put my hands on that rail, I knew there was something valuable at the top. I immediately began to ascend slowly up the stairs....
You probably shouldn't be rolling with patients. It doesn't seem appropriate.


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I don't know, I like most places I volunteer at. They have also helped in more than other ways communicate to me that I actually want to be in medicine.
Yeah, I think finding something you like rather than just whatever you can come across to fill up hours is key, but I think many people just look at it in the latter fashion. Try finding a group that does volunteering perhaps, so you'll be around other people like yourself while doing some good volunteer work? Doing it with friends doesn't make it not volunteering, and it gives you something productive to do rather than sitting around saying "So, whaddaya wanna do?" "I dunno, what do you wanna do?"
 
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You probably shouldn't be rolling with patients. It doesn't seem appropriate.

I am not rolling, but rather developing my bedside manner.


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I don't think you need to give up all your freedom to volunteer for a few hours once a week or once every other week.

However, I do see where you are coming from with the zero to Mother Teresa point. I do think quality > quantity is what should be focused on. That is true for a lot of cases. Someone who has 2000 volunteer hours but can't talk about it very well or hasn't convinced the interviewer they care vs. someone with 200 hours who can talk for 15 minutes about it, go into detail, and be genuinely happy about the service they provided.
 
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I don't think you need to give up all your freedom to volunteer for a few hours once a week or once every other week.

However, I do see where you are coming from with the zero to Mother Teresa point. I do think quality > quantity is what should be focused on. That is true for a lot of cases. Someone who has 2000 volunteer hours but can't talk about it very well or hasn't convinced the interviewer they care vs. someone with 200 hours who can talk for 15 minutes about it, go into detail, and be genuinely happy about the service they provided.

This is very true. Someone who has grown and taken some worth out of his volunteering is what med schools want.
 
I don't think you need to give up all your freedom to volunteer for a few hours once a week or once every other week.

However, I do see where you are coming from with the zero to Mother Teresa point. I do think quality > quantity is what should be focused on. That is true for a lot of cases. Someone who has 2000 volunteer hours but can't talk about it very well or hasn't convinced the interviewer they care vs. someone with 200 hours who can talk for 15 minutes about it, go into detail, and be genuinely happy about the service they provided.

Mhmm, though I will say I've had odd experiences regarding talking about volunteer work. One interviewer kept prodding me for some kind of story with a patient that would be the kind of thing you'd see in a scripted show. I talked about some of the interactions I've had and positive experiences and whatnot, but he seemed to be clearly looking for something like you'd see on an episode of Scrubs that really isn't achievable in a volunteer position done a few hours a week in which you aren't caring for a given patient consistently for a long period of time. He was a PhD, not an MD, and very old, so I don't know if maybe he just had a distorted view of what would occur in a clinical setting.
 
People who give their time to society for free are the worst kind of people you will meet. Expecting nothing in return for their hard work, how dare they donate their time to help those in need. :mad:
 
People who give their time to society for free are the worst kind of people you will meet. Expecting nothing in return for their hard work, how dare they donate their time to help those in need. :mad:

read the thread?

and fwiw, a lot of volunteering I've seen isn't even benefiting society at large. It might give a few hospital employees a couple less tasks to do while they're at work and nothing more. My first hospital volunteering position I was doing something it would have taken the employees next to no extra effort to do themselves and I was just as much in the way as I was helpful. Luckily I wasn't there for too long and was able to move somewhere else.
 
read the thread?

and fwiw, a lot of volunteering I've seen isn't even benefiting society at large. It might give a few hospital employees a couple less tasks to do while they're at work and nothing more. My first hospital volunteering position I was doing something it would have taken the employees next to no extra effort to do themselves and I was just as much in the way as I was helpful. Luckily I wasn't there for too long and was able to move somewhere else.

:thumbup: They should require all med school applicants to wear orange jumpsuits and pick up trash on the side of the highway.
 
This thread either seems paradoxical, or like a troll thread at first glance.

But the more you think of it, it's true. Why make this thread? Because I felt like I was forced to sacrifice a considerable amount of time (and forfeit potential income) when I still had a life. Today I have sacrificed everything I have for my medical education, I believe other people are paying the same price.

Volunteering and ECs can either help or harm an applicant. But I think the volunteering game has finally reached its tipping point, where it's gotten to the extreme where it is mostly hurting applicants, volunteer organizations, and schools themselves. How is it hurting everyone? Applicants are hurt because they are going completely overboard when it comes to the number of volunteer activities and hours that they are putting in. So many are pissing their last years of freedom doing activities they don't want to do, just to put on a song and dance to impress ADCOMs. How are organizations getting harmed? Well, premeds don't have a piss poor reputation for nothing. They screw over hospitals and other organizations because they either half-ass their responsibilities, or are very flaky due to no oversight by schools. How are schools getting harmed? Well if the school is service-oriented and has a large number of applicants that magically picked up a handful of activities when they officially became premed, then who do you think the school is really choosing?

Now to tie this to the thread's title... I am a non-traditional applicant and was in the working world for some time. I met just a couple people (out of many) that devoted a lot of their time to serving the community. They received a lot of recognition at the office. But the funny thing is that they would look like heartless bastard when you compare them to so many applicants in the WAMC threads with "average" ECs. Everyone and their mother has volunteered in a hospital, hospice, free clinic, tutored underprivileged youth, ladled soup in a soup kitchen, did Big Brother Big Sister, coached underprivileged youth, and so many other activities.

But let me ask you this... Do you think it's possible for so many applicants to suddenly go from ZERO TO MOTHER TERESA in just a couple days? I never realized that people can change so suddenly! What's more disheartening is that everyone insults one another on SDN. Either someone is saying that their volunteer activity is "superior" or they are insulting someone because they don't enjoy their volunteering.

It's probably gunners that are going from ZERO TO MOTHER TERESA so quickly. If everyone hates gunners so much, and gunners are the ones guinning for ROADs residencies, then don't you think schools are picking the "wrong" applicants if they choose the ones with a laundry-list of activities? I'm not saying they will make good or bad doctors, because providing free labor doesn't mean squat. But isn't it kind of paradoxical that the "Mother Teresa" applicants are probably the ones that care least about service? I'm not saying that this applies to EVERYONE, but I doubt that premeds are magically more morally righteous than other people.

Does anyone see something wrong with the direction that ECs have taken in the medical admissions process? It's become a race to the bottom. A race to see who can put on the most believable facade, even though it's obvious that they are full of $h!t. Does anyone think this process is flawed? What can be done to fix it?

Sorry, needed to vent. :scared:

/rant

Volunteering for hours = utter waste of time = bad thing
Volunteering for interest = useful and fun = good thing

Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to "volunteer with interest" unless you're dedicated. So, here I agree with OP.
 
People who give their time to society for free are the worst kind of people you will meet. Expecting nothing in return for their hard work, how dare they donate their time to help those in need. :mad:

You missed OP's point entirely.
 
Volunteering/ECs are more than just a category on the application. You draw experiences from it as an applicant, an interviewee, medical student, and as a physician. If you can't, your volunteer experiences are overrated.

In my opinion, adcoms don't really care what you did or for how long, just as long as you did a few things outside of school. They claim they do, but GPA and MCAT are waaaay more important.

Yes yes and yes
I absolutely could not agree more!!!


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I love volunteering. It seems that all my profound experiences has been where I am someone's bitch.

There was a particular day where I was talking to a patient and after a few hours of connecting with her, I became her confidant. I was just so connected to her soul and my inner magnetism really came forth. We eventually held hands and she kissed them and I closed my eyes. At that point, I saw a deep light emerge from the roof, something that resembled a celestial celebration and from that came a spiraling staircase from the shimmering light. As I put my hands on that rail, I knew there was something valuable at the top. I immediately began to ascend slowly up the stairs....

Anyways, the experience was cut short by a nosy staff member who came in to check whether I had made the beds correctly. I told the patient that was amazing. She had the gift of touch and I wanted to spend the rest of my life exploring that feeling, that vibe. She is my heart.

dafuq.gif



Anyway...I don't like how people automatically discount people for not volunteering stuff such as longevity, hours or even what type. I really hate how numbers are thrown around as the "average."

What exactly does a person do in a hospital that they need 150+ hours to realize what they got out of it? I'll never understand the admissions process.
 
It's part of the game. You want in? You put your work in.

The best way to do it is simply game the **** out of it. I learned pretty quickly that there was no oversight at the hospital I volunteered at, so I showed up once a month for a few hours just to keep my card active. Boom, I get my volunteering out of the way and I sacrifice almost none of my time.

Everyone is playing this stupid song and dance and both sides know it. Med schools tout their commitment to primary care/community service, then jizz themselves when they have dudes match into derm/neurosurgery/plastics. Med students, most of the time, never admit to gunning for derm/neurosurg/plastics then study their ass off for a 260 board score. Every incoming med student, if they have an ounce of brainpower, will profess their love and desire to enter primary care and we all know how that story ends. The bull**** doesn't stop until you are done with residency because prestigious residencies want to hear about how much you want to go into academic medicine and by this point, you've become an artist with bull****. It's all a giant song and dance yet no one has the sack to call the system on it's bull****.
 
dafuq.gif



Anyway...I don't like how people automatically discount people for not volunteering stuff such as longevity, hours or even what type. I really hate how numbers are thrown around as the "average."

What exactly does a person do in a hospital that they need 150+ hours to realize what they got out of it? I'll never understand the admissions process.

I'm not going to lie. I got absolutely nothing out of my hospital volunteering experience.

I'm not going to lie. I'm going to lie about my experiences, how "important" and "deeply insightful" they were. I even have a few sketches I can mention if an interviewer asks me to elaborate.

I hate this application process so much.
 
read the thread?

and fwiw, a lot of volunteering I've seen isn't even benefiting society at large. It might give a few hospital employees a couple less tasks to do while they're at work and nothing more. My first hospital volunteering position I was doing something it would have taken the employees next to no extra effort to do themselves and I was just as much in the way as I was helpful. Luckily I wasn't there for too long and was able to move somewhere else.
If you don't help people don't expect them to help you. /thread
 
I'm not going to lie. I got absolutely nothing out of my hospital volunteering experience.

I'm not going to lie. I'm going to lie about my experiences, how "important" and "deeply insightful" they were. I even have a few sketches I can mention if an interviewer asks me to elaborate.

I hate this application process so much.

None of the patients ever asked you guys to wheel them to the gardens or etc? or you guys do any discharges? I don't know, but some of the most endearing experiences I had were with some of the patients I wheeled around. But idk, I'm sappy, if I can make a person smile or happier even when they're recovering, then I consider my day having been worthwhile.
That being said the majority of my experiences in the hospital are low key and uneventful. So I can see how for many volunteering is extremely boring. But, what can I say? Get lucky.
 
If you don't help people don't expect them to help you. /thread

:confused: That isn't what OP is talking about. Volunteering is required. The problem is many of the volunteering jobs are essentially "not helpful for patients/people" (filing/cleaning/moving beds etc.). It's difficult to be motivated and have passion. And it really isn't two-sided as you think.
 
I love all the patients I see. :love:


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:confused: That isn't what OP is talking about. Volunteering is required. The problem is many of the volunteering jobs are essentially "not helpful for patients/people" (filing/cleaning/moving beds etc.). It's difficult to be motivated and have passion. And it really isn't two-sided as you think.

I mean, indirectly it's still helpful. It's better than having nurses do it instead of monitoring patients.
 
:confused: That isn't what OP is talking about. Volunteering is required. The problem is many of the volunteering jobs are essentially "not helpful for patients/people" (filing/cleaning/moving beds etc.). It's difficult to be motivated and have passion. And it really isn't two-sided as you think.

So then who will do the low tier work? It has to be done for the higher ups to function properly in their work, it's about cooperation. If you want to be a "winner" ok, then don't ascribe responsibility to other people, don't help them, you will be "better" than them, and everyone will have a terrible life, including you, (not saying you have a terrible life).
 
So then who will do the low tier work? It has to be done for the higher ups to function properly in their work, it's about cooperation. If you want to be a "winner" ok, then don't ascribe responsibility to other people, don't help them, you will be "better" than them, and everyone will have a terrible life, including you, (not saying you have a terrible life).

:confused: No one's feeling superior here. So tell me. If you have to describe your experiences as a volunteer and all you did was essentially bed cleaning/filing/shelving etc., would you say I had the passion to do all these stuff because I'm being cooperative?
 
So then who will do the low tier work? It has to be done for the higher ups to function properly in their work, it's about cooperation. If you want to be a "winner" ok, then don't ascribe responsibility to other people, don't help them, you will be "better" than them, and everyone will have a terrible life, including you, (not saying you have a terrible life).

Indeed. At worst, volunteering is one of MANY dues you'll be paying for the next 10ish years, and one of the easiest.
 
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