Mormons Dominating 4-yr OMS programs

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I'm not a Mormon, but where I work there are quite a few Mormons. Dentistry is a common career path for Mormons and from what I've been told, it is because dentistry is a family friendly profession, allowing the father to have full financial responsibilty and/or the mother to work full, part time, or remain at home.

Additionally, BYU has a strong predental program and many schools such as Case Western has a high % of Mormons in each class (and that's just one school).

On the outside looking in, the Mormons are huge on maintaining a strong family structure (I agree with this) and encouraging achievement (I agree here as well).

Given that information, it lends to reason you will see more Mormons overall in dentistry and thus in post graduate programs.

As a side note, I notice they tend to stick to one another (even at lunch) and don't usually invite folks who are not Mormons to social gatherings. This is just what I've experienced.
 
Of the 12 residents at my school (6yr program) I think 5-6 are Mormon. I agree that converting may help your chances......and learn Spanish while you are at it.
 
LDS help out other LDS. Once they reach critical mass in an organization they tend to perpetuate that via pulling others through into their ranks. Dentistry and the FBI are both good examples of where LDS are overly represented and they provide "connections".
 
DrFelt said:
Of the 12 residents at my school (6yr program) I think 5-6 are Mormon. I agree that converting may help your chances......and learn Spanish while you are at it.
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This is good news seeing as I am Mormon, speak Spanish, and would like to specialize in OMS
 
As far as acceptance, alot to most of programs use a committee of about 10-12 who interview each who individually rank those interviewed, which is then compiled and made in to a program rank list which is submitted to MATCH. The 1-2 chiefs may be on the committee, but many times they are not. Unless you can prove that the majority on the committee are LDS, that's a pretty far fetched claim that they are pulling special favors.
 
Culturally, Mormons are taught to be high achievers. Most of them have gone on a 2 year mission at their own expense...
 
LDS don't pull favors for each other? Yeah right. I've witnessed it. I've had friends who were pretty much "set up" for DS admission. A guy in their ward knew a guy who knew a guy on admissions. They got great LOR's from people they've never meet due to their LDS status too.

Seems the temple pass is good for more than just the temple...

senpai said:
As far as acceptance, alot to most of programs use a committee of about 10-12 who interview each who individually rank those interviewed, which is then compiled and made in to a program rank list which is submitted to MATCH. The 1-2 chiefs may be on the committee, but many times they are not. Unless you can prove that the majority on the committee are LDS, that's a pretty far fetched claim that they are pulling special favors.
Click to expand...
 
As already mentioned Mormons are culturally disciplined, hard working, and help out those in their social circle as if they were family. This leads to success in many career paths.
 
OMSWannaB said:
What does a 2 year mission have to do with being a high achiever? Yes, I do agree there are Mormons that are high achievers but Oral Surgeons don't care that you're out there spending 2 years promoting world peace or religion. It doesn't make sense.

What also doesn't make sense is that Knoxville is known as an academic program but the majority of their residents are Mormons. I'm pretty confident that 99.9% of Mormon residents will pursue private practice and I'm sure the guys on the interview committees are aware of it. C'mon, they have family obligations. They obviously are not going to pursue academia.

Another thing I notice on SDN is people are claiming they're getting in because of their "great personality". Mormons are committed to family and religion. They don't drink alcohol or curse words. How exciting can their personalities be? Yea, they got in because of "personality".
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You've got a lot to learn if you think "drinking and curse words" are what make a great personality.
 
OMSWannaB said:
Another thing I notice on SDN is people are claiming they’re getting in because of their “great personality”. Mormons are committed to family and religion. They don’t drink alcohol or curse words. How exciting can their personalities be? Yea, they got in because of “personality”.
Click to expand...

With comments like these OMSWannaB may prove to be a prophetic title for you.
 
I know tons of people who are comlete dorks when they get a few drinks in them. Its like making jokes with a seventh grader.

By the way, I don't know how well it would go over to show up to your OMS interview sloshed and cursing like a sailor just so that you have a better personality.

Hmm, maybe these mormon guys are on to something??
 
I feel compelled to say that while Mormons are known for being family oriented, an OS residency is as anti-family as it gets in the dental world. They're doing it for the $ just like everyone else.
 
Stupid question by the OP. Yes, you should apply to a program even if it's Mormon heavy. When you get into a program, you'll quickly realize that even though you spend time together, you rarely see your family so you don't hang out much after work. And there are plenty of people you will meet in other programs if you hate Mormons for some reason.

As a non-Mormon, anyone ever thought that maybe OMS is becoming Mormon heavy because many Mormons have the qualities desired to be a good resident? Most the guys in our program are smart as ****, work their ass off and have the statistics/LOR's that make them appealing during interviews. As long as they don't have the social skills of a brick, I would love to have them as my intern. Don't know if there's that much of a conspiracy to it.

Can't wait for the next thread that starts, "I'm Indian and I was at an OMS program and there were mostly white guys, should I still apply?"
 
This whole thread is comical! Mormons are everywhere! Look out I hear they have coudies(*sp)!
 
i like most mormons i meet. they are cool. nobody should get made at them cause they are pullin favors for each other. The Jews have done it plenty. So has the Brotherhood. At least with Mormons we dont have to send billions of dollars to Utah, like we do to Israel.

The people of my religion are the complete opposite of the Mormons/Jews. They try to cut each other's throats and backstab and badmouth members of their own religion. People of my religion overwhelmingly belong to a specific ethnic minority that generally have the highest SAT scores and are actually the highest earning minority in the country. (This is based on hard, actual numbers). But look at how we act. I admire the Mormons and hope the people of my religion learn from them.

I encourage all of you to read this article by the economist about mormons and their buisness side. It is by the Economist magazine. Very interesting.
http://www.economist.com/node/21554173
 
I forgot to mention. I was shadowing this one oral surgeon who was Christian and he even asked me why people of my religion try to stab each other in the back (and no I am not muslim). I was a very sad man that day lol.

Case in point. It is good to have members of your religion known for helping each other out, unlike my religion where ppl know that we are divided.

United we stand, divided we fall.
 
hellohello1 said:
I forgot to mention. I was shadowing this one oral surgeon who was Christian and he even asked me why people of my religion try to stab each other in the back (and no I am not muslim). I was a very sad man that day lol.

Case in point. It is good to have members of your religion known for helping each other out, unlike my religion where ppl know that we are divided.

United we stand, divided we fall.
Click to expand...

what's that supposed to mean?
 
Kam1 said:
^Wrong!
He means he in not Muslim and that Muslims try to stab each other in the back.
Click to expand...

nice try. he means:

1) he is not muslim

2) we would think that the backstabbing religion is Islam
 
Kam1 said:
^Wrong!
He means he in not Muslim and that Muslims try to stab each other in the back.
Click to expand...

Get over yourself. Many people have negative attitudes in america towards islam. Merely Stating the fact that people have negative attitudes towards Islam is not being racist. You just have a holier-than-thou attitude (that you like to flaunt and show off to everyone) that tries to make it seem that way.

Is thee CNN author of the article below racist?:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/05/rising-anti-islamic-sentiment-in-america-troubles-muslims/
 
OMSWannaB said:
My comment about Mormons not drinking actually came out of the mouths of an OMS faculty who so happens to be on the interview committee. His words, "Mormons are no fun, they don't drink". My question is, "why are they in your program if this is how some of you guys feel about them?"
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I can't figure out if you are a 13 yr old, ESL, or just plain socially disabled but either way let me educate you. He was making a tongue-in-cheek comment.

Tongue-in-cheek- a phrase used as a figure of speech to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended and it should not be taken at face value. Though not meant to be taken seriously, it is not overt joking or kidding around, it is "gently poking fun".
 
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jpark1800 said:
Get over yourself. Many people have negative attitudes in america towards islam. Merely Stating the fact that people have negative attitudes towards Islam is not being racist. You just have a holier-than-thou attitude (that you like to flaunt and show off to everyone) that tries to make it seem that way.

Is thee CNN author of the article below racist?:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/05/rising-anti-islamic-sentiment-in-america-troubles-muslims/
Click to expand...


Time for your medication.
 
My program director is fairly well known has been around a long time (and he's definitely not Mormon). He has trained all kinds of residents but often talks about the Mormon ones. He said every one of them he's trained has been an excellent resident, except one. He says they are hard working and he has no idea how they manage to stay married through such a rigorous training program. That being said, if I saw a subgroup of applicants that consistently performed well and worked hard, I would be more inclined to interview and hence accept more members of that subgroup. Just my two cents.
 
I'm a "Mormon" Pedo resident and I thought I'd add my two cents to the conversation because I get asked this type of question all the time. No, there is no Mormon dental conspiracy and you should not worry about converting or not applying to certain schools because they have a larger % of Mormon residents as far as your chances of acceptance go. You may want to consider programs that accept students at a similar point in life as you just for your social life's sake though.
The reason many mormon's are in OMFS, is the same reason there are a ton of mormon's in pedo and in endo and in general dentistry and in Law and in Business and in all the "best" specialities in Medicine: they have developed a strong work ethic and discipline (from the way they were raised and their mission experience which is essentially 18 hour days 6 days a week for 2 years w/ no time off and no visiting family and complete focus on preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ).
This experience creates a large chunk of highly focused and disciplined students that not only want to achieve great things academically but also truly believe that the family is where fulfillment comes from. This is why so many of us want a career that will allow us to have it all, financial stability and time to dedicate to our family and church (remember there is no paid clergy in the Mormon church so we do it all in our spare time)
As far as OMFS goes, a 4 year sacrifice for an amazingly flexible and lucrative career is much easier to swallow than 6 years. Yes during those 4 years the resident won't get much family time, but for the rest of their life they will-it's the long term perspective at work there.

And as far as the personality issue goes-every Mormon kid from the age of 5 years old is given public speaking assignments at church. From around 12 we are given responsibilities that force interaction w/ adults in a church setting and also through the Boy Scouts (or girls equivalent we have). So from a young age, Mormon's are already slightly-way socially advanced compared to your average kid. Then to top that off you get 2 years of rejection and interaction with people all day every day including heavy managerial-type responsibility of other missionaries during their 2 year missions if they choose to go and pay for it themselves. By the time a 21 year old Lds kid is back from his mission he is more mature than most 40 year old american men. There is often a regression of sorts as they start college and get wrapped up in that scene, but many get married young and that along with kids will force anyone to grow up fast. This is why Mormon's often (not always) have good personalities, discipline and people skills. Don't hate.
 
Good post Doubledizzle 13. That is exactly why so many LDS guys do well. That doesn't mean every one well excel, but that background certainly prepares a person for some intense and difficult academic demands.
I will also say that I had several Mormon friends in dental school and not all of them were "gunners" or cutthroat competitive. Many had to struggle just like everyone else just to get by. All of them were married and had a lot of support of their spouses, which really helped them. That being said, many had kids so they had additional demands on top of school, so one could argue that evened things out.
One of my best friends there was Muslim. He had to work just as hard as well. I guess I'm saying that it really didn't matter what religion or background you had, hard work is what paid off. It just seems like a higher percentage of the Mormon guys end up doing well academically. Maybe it's because they aren't drinking to help with the stress!😀
Btw, I'm a plain white bread Catholic single guy, no family in the dental field, and I busted my *ss to specialize in ortho. Hard work and discipline results in success regardless of faith or upbringing.
 
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doubledizzle13 said:
I'm a "Mormon" Pedo resident and I thought I'd add my two cents to the conversation because I get asked this type of question all the time. No, there is no Mormon dental conspiracy and you should not worry about converting or not applying to certain schools because they have a larger % of Mormon residents as far as your chances of acceptance go. You may want to consider programs that accept students at a similar point in life as you just for your social life's sake though.
The reason many mormon's are in OMFS, is the same reason there are a ton of mormon's in pedo and in endo and in general dentistry and in Law and in Business and in all the "best" specialities in Medicine: they have developed a strong work ethic and discipline (from the way they were raised and their mission experience which is essentially 18 hour days 6 days a week for 2 years w/ no time off and no visiting family and complete focus on preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ).
This experience creates a large chunk of highly focused and disciplined students that not only want to achieve great things academically but also truly believe that the family is where fulfillment comes from. This is why so many of us want a career that will allow us to have it all, financial stability and time to dedicate to our family and church (remember there is no paid clergy in the Mormon church so we do it all in our spare time)
As far as OMFS goes, a 4 year sacrifice for an amazingly flexible and lucrative career is much easier to swallow than 6 years. Yes during those 4 years the resident won't get much family time, but for the rest of their life they will-it's the long term perspective at work there.

And as far as the personality issue goes-every Mormon kid from the age of 5 years old is given public speaking assignments at church. From around 12 we are given responsibilities that force interaction w/ adults in a church setting and also through the Boy Scouts (or girls equivalent we have). So from a young age, Mormon's are already slightly-way socially advanced compared to your average kid. Then to top that off you get 2 years of rejection and interaction with people all day every day including heavy managerial-type responsibility of other missionaries during their 2 year missions if they choose to go and pay for it themselves. By the time a 21 year old Lds kid is back from his mission he is more mature than most 40 year old american men. There is often a regression of sorts as they start college and get wrapped up in that scene, but many get married young and that along with kids will force anyone to grow up fast. This is why Mormon's often (not always) have good personalities, discipline and people skills. Don't hate.
Click to expand...

👍 Sounds a lot like people of my faith as well.
 
👍👍👍 Great Post DoubleD's👍👍👍
 
Also, for those that don't know BYU is the mecca for mormon education. According to their website....

BYU is ranked:
#10 nationally for the number of students who go on to earn PhDs
#1 nationally for students who go on to dental school
#6 nationally for students who go on to law school
#10 nationally for students who go on to medical school

This also speaks volumes on mormon's attitudes toward education. Especially, higher education.

http://yfacts.byu.edu/article?id=181
 
Well asians are over-represented in both dental and medical schools. It's mostly due to a cultural thing than a religious thing. Same thing goes for the Mormons being over-represented in OMFS residencies. It's the culture of being Mormon that instills good character such as being hard-working, doing well academically (I heard mormons are expected to memorize exorbitant amount of Bible verses as children), and being raised to be the typical American good ol' boy and gentleman. I think their faith alone has a less direct causation relationship with being over-represented.
 
doubledizzle13 said:
I'm a "Mormon" Pedo resident and I thought I'd add my two cents to the conversation because I get asked this type of question all the time. No, there is no Mormon dental conspiracy and you should not worry about converting or not applying to certain schools because they have a larger % of Mormon residents as far as your chances of acceptance go. You may want to consider programs that accept students at a similar point in life as you just for your social life's sake though.
The reason many mormon's are in OMFS, is the same reason there are a ton of mormon's in pedo and in endo and in general dentistry and in Law and in Business and in all the "best" specialities in Medicine: they have developed a strong work ethic and discipline (from the way they were raised and their mission experience which is essentially 18 hour days 6 days a week for 2 years w/ no time off and no visiting family and complete focus on preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ).
This experience creates a large chunk of highly focused and disciplined students that not only want to achieve great things academically but also truly believe that the family is where fulfillment comes from. This is why so many of us want a career that will allow us to have it all, financial stability and time to dedicate to our family and church (remember there is no paid clergy in the Mormon church so we do it all in our spare time)
As far as OMFS goes, a 4 year sacrifice for an amazingly flexible and lucrative career is much easier to swallow than 6 years. Yes during those 4 years the resident won't get much family time, but for the rest of their life they will-it's the long term perspective at work there.

And as far as the personality issue goes-every Mormon kid from the age of 5 years old is given public speaking assignments at church. From around 12 we are given responsibilities that force interaction w/ adults in a church setting and also through the Boy Scouts (or girls equivalent we have). So from a young age, Mormon's are already slightly-way socially advanced compared to your average kid. Then to top that off you get 2 years of rejection and interaction with people all day every day including heavy managerial-type responsibility of other missionaries during their 2 year missions if they choose to go and pay for it themselves. By the time a 21 year old Lds kid is back from his mission he is more mature than most 40 year old american men. There is often a regression of sorts as they start college and get wrapped up in that scene, but many get married young and that along with kids will force anyone to grow up fast. This is why Mormon's often (not always) have good personalities, discipline and people skills. Don't hate.
Click to expand...

I am a Muslim and your post increased my respect to Mormons. Good luck in your life.
 
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Stacker said:
Well asians are over-represented in both dental and medical schools. It's mostly due to a cultural thing than a religious thing.
Click to expand...

Well, I'll argue that it's definitely a cultural thing for Mormons too. There's nothing in their religion that says "go into dentistry".

And for those who are getting all anxious over someone pulling strings for a Mormon to get into dental school or a residency program, relax. This is not exclusive to Mormons. People from all different religious and non-religious groups pull strings to help out their friends. That's life.
 
Mormon dentistry conspiracy? about as true as Jew dentistry conspiracy and Jew Hollywood conspiracy.
High achievers? I don't doubt it... there's Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney for presidents, both Mormons.
 
doubledizzle13 said:
By the time a 21 year old Lds kid is back from his mission he is more mature than most 40 year old american men.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with this. Let's just call it an overstatement. In many instances, the mission causes one to become a bit of an awkward "Jesus Freak" for at least a few months. The "regression" is more like waking up from the bubble they've been living in for the past 2 years and readjusting to reality. Let's not mistake this misguided sense of morale superiority for maturity. Missionaries live a very sheltered life in a religious bubble where they are naturally compelled to play the role of a morale compass for the not-yet-Mormon's or the inactive Mormons. Sure missionaries are meeting all kinds of people and perhaps learning a new language or culture, but every discussion they have with anyone is centered on Christ. This is hardly a learning experience. Missionaries are there to tell their story, not to learn from others. I find it condescending to say that returned missionaries are more mature than the average 40 year old man who has already finished school, nearly finished raising a family, and been married for perhaps 10-15 years already. Let's just say returned missionaries are more mature than people of a similar age.
 
OMSWannaB said:
Mormons can have Knoxville’s program! I didn’t realize they do so much CANCER!!! I agree, Mormons are well disciplined, therefore, I believe this program is well suited for them. Cancer surgeries can last 15+ hours long and you do not leave the operating room at all. That means no bathroom break or food.

Plus, you’ll have to round on these patients for more than a month. The in-house patient list will start to pile up which will mean having to wake up super early. Let’s say on average it takes 45 mins to pre-round on a patient and there are 6 inpatients. You split the patients with your co-resident, which would be 3 patients per resident to pre-round on. You would have to spend 2.5 hours to pre-round on these patients. So if you round with your senior residents and attendings at 6:30 am, then that means you would have to start seeing these patients at 4 am everyday.

In addition, you’ll have to do hourly Doppler/Flap checks all night (12 am, 1 am, 2 am, etc.) while you’re on-call to assure the surgical sites are well vascularized. And if it’s not, then that’s a whole other story. For Mormons, it’s to their advantage since they typically have 10 kids. So, their kids could split each hour performing Doppler checks while the residents sleep LOL. Now it makes sense why Knoxville takes so many Mormons.

Managing cancer patients can be both tiring and depressing. Not only is there a lot of work behind it, but you have to manage these patients at a personal level. Cancer patients are typically very sick and depressed. You have to make extra time speaking and listening these patients discuss about how horrible their lives are that they have to deal with their diseases and cancer. Sounds Fun!

These guys do cancer surgeries and in the end, they’ll be doing private practice taking out wisdom teeth and placing implants. How perfect is that! Ask the residents there, I’m sure they’ll give you their honest opinion about residency life there. They’ll be as honest as Mitt Romney 😉
Click to expand...

U seem angry
 
OMSWannaB said:
Mormons can have Knoxville’s program! I didn’t realize they do so much CANCER!!! I agree, Mormons are well disciplined, therefore, I believe this program is well suited for them. Cancer surgeries can last 15+ hours long and you do not leave the operating room at all. That means no bathroom break or food.

Plus, you’ll have to round on these patients for more than a month. The in-house patient list will start to pile up which will mean having to wake up super early. Let’s say on average it takes 45 mins to pre-round on a patient and there are 6 inpatients. You split the patients with your co-resident, which would be 3 patients per resident to pre-round on. You would have to spend 2.5 hours to pre-round on these patients. So if you round with your senior residents and attendings at 6:30 am, then that means you would have to start seeing these patients at 4 am everyday.

In addition, you’ll have to do hourly Doppler/Flap checks all night (12 am, 1 am, 2 am, etc.) while you’re on-call to assure the surgical sites are well vascularized. And if it’s not, then that’s a whole other story. For Mormons, it’s to their advantage since they typically have 10 kids. So, their kids could split each hour performing Doppler checks while the residents sleep LOL. Now it makes sense why Knoxville takes so many Mormons.

Managing cancer patients can be both tiring and depressing. Not only is there a lot of work behind it, but you have to manage these patients at a personal level. Cancer patients are typically very sick and depressed. You have to make extra time speaking and listening these patients discuss about how horrible their lives are that they have to deal with their diseases and cancer. Sounds Fun!

These guys do cancer surgeries and in the end, they’ll be doing private practice taking out wisdom teeth and placing implants. How perfect is that! Ask the residents there, I’m sure they’ll give you their honest opinion about residency life there. They’ll be as honest as Mitt Romney 😉
Click to expand...

OMSwannaB...

1. Cancer cases can last >15hrs. Most cancer cases done in 6-10 hrs with two team approach. You do/should get bathroom/lunch break.
2. 45min/pt? I would say <20min (including typing notes/flap check/dressing change)
3. Most patients get discharged in 7-10 days ( even free flap patients with multiple comorbidities)
4. It they are very sick, they wouldn't be surgical candidates. Yes, most cancer patients are depressed. I wonder if you know why...
 
Ninety said:
I am a Muslim and your post increased my respect to Mormons. Good luck in your life.
Click to expand...

You should have respected him or her regardless of religious differences.
 
UCSFx2016 said:
You should have respected him or her regardless of religious differences.
Click to expand...

I said "increased my respect" which means I do respect them before reading this thread and this post increased my respect to them
 
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