Most competitive psychiatry programs

[larousse]

Just because I have way too much free time on my hands, and because I was frustrated by the lack of information about the top residency programs this time last year, I thought I'd post this (sure to be noncontroversial) list, which I modified from one an attending of mine gave me.

It's arranged in alphabetical order within groups, and doesn't imply anything more than the difficulty of matching at the program. Hopkins, for example, is a very strong program, but (because of its location) isn't attracting many MD-PhDs who were AOA and went to Yale.

THE 25 MOST COMPETITIVE PSYCHIATRY RESIDENCY PROGRAMS
(Alphabetical within each category)

Most competitive

Harvard MGH/McLean
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Cornell
Stanford University
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, San Francisco

Very competitive

Harvard-Cambridge
Harvard-Longwood
Mount Sinai
New York University
University of Pennsylvania
Yale Unversity

Somewhat competitive

Brown University
California Pacific
Duke University
Emory University
Johns Hopkins University
Northwestern University
San Mateo
University of California, San Diego
University of Washington

Less competitive

Mayo Clinic
Menninger Clinic
University of Maryland
University of Pittsburgh

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[nitemagi]

Just because I have way too much free time on my hands, and because I was frustrated by the lack of information about the top residency programs this time last year, I thought I'd post this (sure to be noncontroversial) list, which I modified from one an attending of mine gave me.

It's arranged in alphabetical order within groups, and doesn't imply anything more than the difficulty of matching at the program. Hopkins, for example, is a very strong program, but (because of its location) isn't attracting many MD-PhDs who were AOA and went to Yale.

THE 25 MOST COMPETITIVE PSYCHIATRY RESIDENCY PROGRAMS
(Alphabetical within each category)

Most competitive

Harvard MGH/McLean
NYP-Columbia
NYP-Cornell
Stanford University
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, San Francisco

Very competitive

Harvard-Cambridge
Harvard-Longwood
Mount Sinai
New York University
University of Pennsylvania
Yale Unversity

Somewhat competitive

Brown University
California Pacific
Duke University
Emory University
Johns Hopkins University
Northwestern University
San Mateo
University of California, San Diego
University of Washington

Less competitive

Mayo Clinic
Menninger Clinic
University of Maryland
University of Pittsburgh

This topic comes up fairly often. Most of us relied on lists from our faculty advisors, which is fairly out of date and based on their experience and rumors, and while always having an element of truth, are rarely based on any objective numbers. For example, both NYU and Harvard-Longwood, in your very competitive list, went unfilled this year. Though you could argue that shows their level of selectiveness that they only rank a limited list applicants.

 

[Hurricane]

The more times I see one of these lists, the more I am convinced that the list-maker has a map of the US on his wall that consists of two brightly colored coasts and depending on his mood, a tiny speck where Atlanta is. And everything else is labeled in curly script: "vast intellectual wasteland" and "there be rednecks here."

 

[notdeadyet]

The more times I see one of these lists, the more I am convinced that the list-maker has a map of the US on his wall that consists of two brightly colored coasts and depending on his mood, a tiny speck where Atlanta is. And everything else is labeled in curly script: "vast intellectual wasteland" and "there be rednecks here."

The older maps have Chicago labelled as well. Planes needed to refuel here going from civilization to civilization.

 

[billypilgrim37]

Geez, this thread is like a wonkery-trap for me. Curse you!

Stanford hasn't filled at least twice in the past 5 years. Hard to call that a more competitive program than most of the programs in your second tier.

The rest of the first two tiers are pretty fair.

The last two tiers seem to break down a bit. Seems like UW and UCSD deserve to be far distanced from San Mateo or Cal Pacific (and wouldn't Davis or OHSU tend to trump both of those programs in competitiveness?). This seems like a list made by a west-coaster, which I am certainly not.

Pitt under Duke and Emory and Hopkins doesn't seem quite right either.

The inclusion of Mayo, but exclusion of Michigan or Wash U seems difficult. Even including Baylor over UTSW seems awfully suspect.

Northwestern isn't even the most competitive program in Chicago (UIC).

It's probably much easier to rank competitiveness by region, since entirely different people tend to apply to places on each coast. I know how to compare Cambridge and NYU, but I don't really know you can compare those to, say, UCSF. Or Brown vs UCSD. I propose you restart this thread as a bracket!

 

[nancysinatra]

The more times I see one of these lists, the more I am convinced that the list-maker has a map of the US on his wall that consists of two brightly colored coasts and depending on his mood, a tiny speck where Atlanta is. And everything else is labeled in curly script: "vast intellectual wasteland" and "there be rednecks here."

Actually, I am pretty sure this map is the official US map on many classroom walls nowadays. I had to start a club my first year of med school just to teach people where the midwest IS. We even got funding. Just enough to photocopy some pictures showing the locations and names of several states that people were blurry on. I'm totally serious. There was a lot of interest in the midwest, I was happy to find out, although not a great deal of knowledge.

 

[Doc Samson]

I propose you restart this thread as a bracket!

That is an amazing idea. We need to divide them into 4 "regions". I suggest:

Research powerhouses
Clinical workhorses
Cush lifestyle

as 3 options, but can't come up with a 4th. We can vote each match-up within each bracket to distill down to a final 4, and then match them up against each other.

 

[Suedehead]

That is an amazing idea. We need to divide them into 4 "regions". I suggest:

Research powerhouses
Clinical workhorses
Cush lifestyle

as 3 options, but can't come up with a 4th. We can vote each match-up within each bracket to distill down to a final 4, and then match them up against each other.

Oooh. More about this cush lifesyle bracket, please.....

 

[OldPsychDoc]

That is an amazing idea. We need to divide them into 4 "regions". I suggest:

Research powerhouses
Clinical workhorses
Cush lifestyle

as 3 options, but can't come up with a 4th. We can vote each match-up within each bracket to distill down to a final 4, and then match them up against each other.

IMG-dominated scutwork sweatshops?
Ivory towers resting on their laurels?

OPD is proud to cheer on his home team--an underdog, 10-seed clinical workhorse program.

 

[BlueSkies01]

Geez, this thread is like a wonkery-trap for me. Curse you!

Stanford hasn't filled at least twice in the past 5 years. Hard to call that a more competitive program than most of the programs in your second tier.


Northwestern isn't even the most competitive program in Chicago (UIC).

UIC didn't fill this year either....every other program in Chicago did.

 

[Doc Samson]

IMG-dominated scutwork sweatshops?

Can you really seed these? Wouldn't the winner of the region be certain to get knocked out by any of the other final 4?

IMG-dominated scutwork sweatshops = NIT

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Can you really seed these? Wouldn't the winner of the region be certain to get knocked out by any of the other final 4?

IMG-dominated scutwork sweatshops = NIT

I suppose we can let the best two of them do a 64-65 seed play-in game for the privilege of getting their assets whipped by MGH in the first round.

 

[yeti00]

Of course, there are others who fret over this concept, like US News (which is "prestige" based):

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/best-hospitals/search.php?spec=reppsyc

Or, the NIH (Ca$h money based):

http://www.residentphysician.com/Psychiatry_rankings.htm

Or, the fusion of the two systems:

https://www-s.med.uiuc.edu/m34/clerkships/psychiatry/Ranking%20of Psychiatry Residency Programs.htm

Overall, of course, it depends on what you mean by "competitive" - "competitive" may not always equal the residency that meets your needs/desires for training.

my 2cents, yeti

 

[2tall]

Since I'm not all that competitive could someone shed light on...

The trendiest...

the sexiest...

and the hottest residency programs?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Since I'm not all that competitive could someone shed light on...

The trendiest...

the sexiest...

and the hottest residency programs?

Does Seattle Grace have a psych program? Because from the looks of their surgery program, they'd have to qualify on all of the above!

 

[watto]

Does Seattle Grace have a psych program? Because from the looks of their surgery program, they'd have to qualify on all of the above!

Seattle Grace is essentially UCLA - Sepulveda program psych since they tape the show at their hospital (the Sepulveda VA in the valley). I think some of their residents have been extras in the show, even.

 

[MBK2003]

We need to divide them into 4 "regions". I suggest:

Research powerhouses
Clinical workhorses
Cush lifestyle

as 3 options, but can't come up with a 4th.

How about # 4 as the Psychodynamic therapy intensive programs?

It's be nice to see the white lab coat researchers take on the tweedy bearded analysts.

 

[Doc Samson]

How about # 4 as the Psychodynamic therapy intensive programs?

It's be nice to see the white lab coat researchers take on the tweedy bearded analysts.

But where would you put programs like Longwood or Cambridge? Clinical workhorses or Therapy Intense?

I thought about the Tx vs Rx split, but most of the Rx-heavy programs (e.g. WUSTL, Pitt, Hopkins) would fall into the research powerhouse category.

 

[rechaim]

"In addition, you may not post or transmit any message which is harmful, threatening, abusive or hateful. It is not the intent of Coastal Research Group to discourage Users from taking controversial positions or expressing vigorously what may be unpopular views in The Student Doctor Network, nonetheless, Coastal Research Group reserves the right to take such action as it deems appropriate in cases where The Student Doctor Network is used to disseminate statements which are deeply and widely offensive and/or harmful. Each time you upload a file on The Student Doctor Network, you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control the rights or have the necessary consents to do so, and you grant every other User the right to download and use such file. Your failure to observe any of the foregoing limitations or obligations may result in civil or criminal liability. "

To the moderators: you should not abuse your right to "express vigorously what may be unpopular views". As an IMG, I find your comments about "IMG filled sweatshops" to be hateful, abusive and harmful. Since as moderators you are, in a way, representing SDN views (and you might not, due to your function in this website, be 'banned' or ' flagged' for hateful speech) your comments might result in civil liability.

 

[billypilgrim37]

As an IMG, I find your comments about "IMG filled sweatshops" to be hateful, abusive and harmful.

It seems like you should find it more hateful, abusive, and harmful that there exist programs in this country that abuse talented, hard-working IMGs for cheap labor without earnest regard for their education. The moderators simply acknowledging that these programs exist (or that they don't offer better opportunities for their residents) is none of the above things.

 

[TexPre-Med]

"In addition, you may not post or transmit any message which is harmful, threatening, abusive or hateful. It is not the intent of Coastal Research Group to discourage Users from taking controversial positions or expressing vigorously what may be unpopular views in The Student Doctor Network, nonetheless, Coastal Research Group reserves the right to take such action as it deems appropriate in cases where The Student Doctor Network is used to disseminate statements which are deeply and widely offensive and/or harmful. Each time you upload a file on The Student Doctor Network, you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control the rights or have the necessary consents to do so, and you grant every other User the right to download and use such file. Your failure to observe any of the foregoing limitations or obligations may result in civil or criminal liability. "

To the moderators: you should not abuse your right to "express vigorously what may be unpopular views". As an IMG, I find your comments about "IMG filled sweatshops" to be hateful, abusive and harmful. Since as moderators you are, in a way, representing SDN views (and you might not, due to your function in this website, be 'banned' or ' flagged' for hateful speech) your comments might result in civil liability.

Please see one of the local radiologists soon to help us localize the rectal object, so that we may excise/manually remove such object for you. I promise that in your medical treatment, we will not chastise, tease, or belittle your problem while we are in the exam room. No promises about the physician's lounge though.

Seriously though, grow some testicles. Wait, can I say testicles? It is medical terminology......but will I get sued for it?

 

[HCE]

Please see one of the local radiologists soon to help us localize the rectal object, so that we may excise/manually remove such object for you. I promise that in your medical treatment, we will not chastise, tease, or belittle your problem while we are in the exam room. No promises about the physician's lounge though.

Seriously though, grow some testicles. Wait, can I say testicles? It is medical terminology......but will I get sued for it?

hmmm....maybe if saying "grow some testicles" is considered giving medical advice, and someone is harmed by attempting to grow same...

 

[OldPsychDoc]

hmmm....maybe if saying "grow some testicles" is considered giving medical advice, and someone is harmed by attempting to grow same...

Then perhaps we could close this thread in the interests of public safety...

 

[rechaim]

AMA INTERNATIONAL MEDICAL GRADUATES SECTION​

Promoting Diversity in Medicine

​

Resolution: 4​

(I-01)​

Introduced by: Bhupendra Khatri, MD
IMG Section, State Medical Society of Wisconsin

Subject: Discrimination against IMGs

Referred to: Reference Committee





Whereas, the IMG society of the State Medical Society of Wisconsin recently conducted a survey to determine whether IMGs in the state felt discrimination; and

Whereas, the survey showed that 60% of IMGs in the State of Wisconsin have suffered from discrimination; and

Whereas, the discrimination came mainly from their peers and during seeking residency-training programs; therefore be it

RESOLVED, That the AMA develop zero-tolerance policies for discrimination based on ethnicity as well as having graduated from WHO-recognized medical schools overseas; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the AMA take proactive steps to fight discrimination at all levels such as residency programs, fellowship programs, academic and private practices; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the AMA periodically undertake surveys to determine the effectiveness of the steps implemented by the AMA to fight such discrimination; and be it further

RESOLVED, That the AMA implement a toll-free phone number where such discrimination can be reported to the AMA, allowing them to take appropriate actions.

The SDN, being a non-profit entity ( and receiving tax benefits) claiming to be a source of advice, mentoring, forum, and discussion panel for medical students, residents and attendings , is responsible for the content posted by its moderators or assistant moderators, and if the content of such posts is deemed discriminatory against IMGs, SDN is therefore liable.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Whereas I respect anyone's right to feel offended, I believe that if one were to review the past year of posts from anasazi, doc samson, and myself, you would find that we are fairly strong advocates for IMGs and FMGs.
For example, I'll refer you to this post in the mentoring thread this very week.

If we have referred to "IMG-dominated scutwork sweatshops", I believe that it is clearly in the context of disparaging the programs, not the residents. As billypilgrim37 pointed out, it is far more concerning that these programs exist to exploit the desire of FMGs for US training than that doctors trained overseas wish to obtain that training--at great personal cost and effort.

In any case, I do not feel that any good is going to come from this thread--and it is in that spirit, not from any threat of AMA sanctions, that I close it.
In addition, the Tournament is over, as should be any purely speculative discussion of competitiveness and testosterone levels.