Moving from academia to federal work--the best approach?

[futureapppsy2]

Hi all,

Due to a change in life circumstances (mainly being location-bond to one place), I'm looking to move from academic to federal government work. I have 12 months to do this (*maybe* 24 months if the chips all line up, but I'm not counting on that)--there's a small chance an academic job may open up where I need to be, but obviously, I can't bet on that. Over the past month, I've applied to a lot of federal jobs, both local clinical jobs and remote research jobs. I've gotten some referrals but no interviews or offers yet (which I wouldn't really expect, given that those posting closed less than a month ago, if they aren't still open, and federal hiring is, IME, slow). what I'm wondering is if it makes sense to take a VA job literally anywhere, with the goal of getting in the system, moving, and being able to apply for internal postings back in my location-bound location, or if I should wait a bit and consider that later if needed?

Thanks!

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[WisNeuro]

Hi all,

Due to a change in life circumstances (mainly being location-bond to one place), I'm looking to move from academic to federal government work. I have 12 months to do this (*maybe* 24 months if the chips all line up, but I'm not counting on that)--there's a small chance an academic job may open up where I need to be, but obviously, I can't bet on that. Over the past month, I've applied to a lot of federal jobs, both local clinical jobs and remote research jobs. I've gotten some referrals but no interviews or offers yet (which I wouldn't really expect, given that those posting closed less than a month ago, if they aren't still open, and federal hiring is, IME, slow). what I'm wondering is if it makes sense to take a VA job literally anywhere, with the goal of getting in the system, moving, and being able to apply for internal postings back in my location-bound location, or if I should wait a bit and consider that later if needed?

Thanks!

This could always backfire. There are VA positions in certain locations that I see posted pretty regularly, and then there are certain locations that I rarely see a position open up for in my niche. So, it may depend on how general of a job in the VA you are looking at vs. specialized.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Hi all,

Due to a change in life circumstances (mainly being location-bond to one place), I'm looking to move from academic to federal government work. I have 12 months to do this (*maybe* 24 months if the chips all line up, but I'm not counting on that)--there's a small chance an academic job may open up where I need to be, but obviously, I can't bet on that. Over the past month, I've applied to a lot of federal jobs, both local clinical jobs and remote research jobs. I've gotten some referrals but no interviews or offers yet (which I wouldn't really expect, given that those posting closed less than a month ago, if they aren't still open, and federal hiring is, IME, slow). what I'm wondering is if it makes sense to take a VA job literally anywhere, with the goal of getting in the system, moving, and being able to apply for internal postings back in my location-bound location, or if I should wait a bit and consider that later if needed?

Thanks!

Best of luck to you!

I would love to hear your take on work as a VA psychologist after spending a few months there.

At my facility, VA providers with caseloads are bailing left and right...retiring, frenetically applying for non-clinical positions, flat out leaving in disgust...

I mean, maybe it would be viable to get hired on at the VA and then immediately pivot into something else.

 

[futureapppsy2]

This could always backfire. There are VA positions in certain locations that I see posted pretty regularly, and then there are certain locations that I rarely see a position open up for in my niche. So, it may depend on how general of a job in the VA you are looking at vs. specialized.

Pretty general--there seems to be a small, but pretty consistent, patterns of posting positions in this locale, but a good number are internal, so that's why I'm wondering if being in the system would be worth it.

 

[Sanman]

With your record, I would seriously consider focusing on the research or mixed positions. Having been involved in hiring for clinical positions at my VA, your background will essentially count for nothing in those positions. So, you may not be as competitive or as happy with the offer.

 

[futureapppsy2]

With your record, I would seriously consider focusing on the research or mixed positions. Having been involved in hiring for clinical positions at my VA, your background will essentially count for nothing in those positions. So, you may not be as competitive or as happy with the offer.

I actually have a strong clinical background, thanks to doing a ton of supervision as faculty. I just never post about it here. 🙂 (I was offered a clinical position last year but turned it down d/t a strong a counter offer from my current position, so I know it's at least possible for me to get a clinical offer).

 

[summerbabe]

Given that you are a year out, I would wait at least a bit longer before taking a job that would require relocation given the number of current vacancies across most of the system and possibly of virtual work.

If a site is posting jobs for internal candidates only but not cross-listing the same job for externals, that could signal that they have somebody in mind already but can't directly hire them into that position (their facility doesn't approve many direct hires, following equal opportunity employment procedures, etc) so even if you are a current federal employee, it may be moot.

I would be even more suspicious of this reality if those internal only jobs are also purposefully only open for two weeks or less since it's a pain to go through reapproval for a position if you can't successfully hire and onboard.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've interviewed for at least one of these positions where the hiring committee seemed especially disinterested and I was almost immediately notified suspiciously quickly that I wasn't selected by HR.

If the location that you're interested in has a steady stream of general therapy jobs open to both internal and external candidates, it's probably just a matter of time before you get an interview and likely an offer unless market forces in this area strongly favor in-person/hybrid VA positions over other opportunities, which doesn't seem to be that many places.

 

[PsychPhDone]

Hi all,

Due to a change in life circumstances (mainly being location-bond to one place), I'm looking to move from academic to federal government work. I have 12 months to do this (*maybe* 24 months if the chips all line up, but I'm not counting on that)--there's a small chance an academic job may open up where I need to be, but obviously, I can't bet on that. Over the past month, I've applied to a lot of federal jobs, both local clinical jobs and remote research jobs. I've gotten some referrals but no interviews or offers yet (which I wouldn't really expect, given that those posting closed less than a month ago, if they aren't still open, and federal hiring is, IME, slow). what I'm wondering is if it makes sense to take a VA job literally anywhere, with the goal of getting in the system, moving, and being able to apply for internal postings back in my location-bound location, or if I should wait a bit and consider that later if needed?

Thanks!

I worry about this approach given that it could backfire - you may end up looking flaky. It'll also likely take several months to onboard. I would try reaching out directly to any contacts you have and/or hiring managers.

 

[erg923]

Hi all,

Due to a change in life circumstances (mainly being location-bond to one place), I'm looking to move from academic to federal government work. I have 12 months to do this (*maybe* 24 months if the chips all line up, but I'm not counting on that)--there's a small chance an academic job may open up where I need to be, but obviously, I can't bet on that. Over the past month, I've applied to a lot of federal jobs, both local clinical jobs and remote research jobs. I've gotten some referrals but no interviews or offers yet (which I wouldn't really expect, given that those posting closed less than a month ago, if they aren't still open, and federal hiring is, IME, slow). what I'm wondering is if it makes sense to take a VA job literally anywhere, with the goal of getting in the system, moving, and being able to apply for internal postings back in my location-bound location, or if I should wait a bit and consider that later if needed?

Thanks!

You have been an academic for years now and would be moving to a setting that is highly inflexible...in many aspects. Like literally be there at 8 and not leave until 430 no matter what is not going on. I cannot imagine you would be happy with this. I know that I have been working fully remote for over 5 years now and cannot imagine having to go back to an office, much less a typical 8-5 daily schedule. There is just no way I would tolerate it at this point.

 

[bcliff]

FWIW, I found 34 jobs posted on USAJobs using the keyword "research," filtered to only positions that are entirely remote, within Dept. of VA, and at a GS-13 or higher.

Some likely aren't a good fit (e.g., a research registered nurse, etc.), but I feel like, if anything, getting "into" the system this way would be more feasible / less prone to backfiring than taking a job somehwere and moving with the plan to move again within the next year or two. Just my two cents. 🙂

ETA: That list narrows to only 15 positions when adding the "open to the public" filter. Whoops. Similar results when searching with the keyword "psychologist."

Double ETA: These seem the most promising:
- Remote Staff Psychologist (EDRP Authorized)
- Staff Psychologist - Mental Health - Pain Clinic
- Staff Psychologist (PREVAIL Program for Chronic Pain)
- Clinical Psychologist (BHIP/OP)
- Staff Psychologist - Virtual Float

 

[summerbabe]

FWIW, I found 34 jobs posted on USAJobs using the keyword "research," filtered to only positions that are entirely remote, within Dept. of VA, and at a GS-13 or higher.

Based on some chatter that I've heard, fully remote research and admin jobs will likely become harder to find in this coming period as Biden pushes for federal employees to return to the office. For example, some VISN/VACO roles that have been open to 100% virtual people are now moving to hybrid postings that require you to live near the headquarters.

So if OP is open to virtual VA research options and gets an offer, I would jump on it ASAP.

I don't think fully remote clinical jobs will be as impacted given the lack of mental health providers in many facilities nationwide (I've heard of facilities that are currently staffing as little as 50% of their approved mental health FTEs).

Unless a specific facility is prioritizing hybrid/full on site work for other reasons and not/no longer approving new fully remote jobs.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Based on some chatter that I've heard, fully remote research and admin jobs will likely become harder to find in this coming period as Biden pushes for federal employees to return to the office. For example, some VISN/VACO roles that have been open to 100% virtual people are now moving to hybrid postings that require you to live near the headquarters.

So if OP is open to virtual VA research options and gets an offer, I would jump on it ASAP.

I don't think fully remote clinical jobs will be as impacted given the lack of mental health providers in many facilities nationwide (I've heard of facilities that are currently staffing as little as 50% of their approved mental health FTEs).

Unless a specific facility is prioritizing hybrid/full on site work for other reasons and not/no longer approving new fully remote jobs.

I already do this, with the addition of searching other agencies and not narrowing by keywords (basically I just search for jobs in my location [which includes remote jobs] and save any postings that fit within the next week. I either apply to them right away if I have a fitting resume ready to go or note that I need to create a resume for them and set to do it in the next day or two). FWIW, though, most of the jobs that come up in that search aren’t research positions or are limited to physicians, etc. There’s a lot of sorting through involved.

 

[futureapppsy2]

You have been an academic for years now and would be moving to a setting that is highly inflexible...in many aspects. Like literally be there at 8 and not leave until 430 no matter what is not going on. I cannot imagine you would be happy with this. I know that I have been working fully remote for over 5 years now and cannot imagine having to go back to an office, much less a typical 8-5 daily schedule. There is just no way I would tolerate it at this point.

Ah, but ultimately I want to be with my SO more than I want a flexible work schedule. I mean, if I could have both, that would be ideal, of course, but if I have the choose one, I’d pick my SO.

 

[cara susanna]

Based on some chatter that I've heard, fully remote research and admin jobs will likely become harder to find in this coming period as Biden pushes for federal employees to return to the office. For example, some VISN/VACO roles that have been open to 100% virtual people are now moving to hybrid postings that require you to live near the headquarters.

So if OP is open to virtual VA research options and gets an offer, I would jump on it ASAP.

I don't think fully remote clinical jobs will be as impacted given the lack of mental health providers in many facilities nationwide (I've heard of facilities that are currently staffing as little as 50% of their approved mental health FTEs).

Unless a specific facility is prioritizing hybrid/full on site work for other reasons and not/no longer approving new fully remote jobs.

Clinical Resource Hub will probably stay fully remote... but then maybe not?

 

[summerbabe]

Clinical Resource Hub will probably stay fully remote... but then maybe not?

CRH's should be safe because from what I understand, they are generally hitting really good metrics in terms of RVUs per provider, distinct patient encounters, helping reduce wait times locally, subbing for providers who are out on leave, etc.

If anything, I would bet on CRHs getting more funding moving forward for mental health, as well as expanding into new areas of telemed (cardiology, urology, etc).

But fully virtual positions being offered by specific facilities themselves might be impacted by the return to office mandate.

 

[Sanman]

CRH's should be safe because from what I understand, they are generally hitting really good metrics in terms of RVUs per provider, distinct patient encounters, helping reduce wait times locally, subbing for providers who are out on leave, etc.

If anything, I would bet on CRHs getting more funding moving forward for mental health, as well as expanding into new areas of telemed (cardiology, urology, etc).

But fully virtual positions being offered by specific facilities themselves might be impacted by the return to office mandate.

I imagine that hybrid positions will become more common with return to office as I know plenty of VAs have an office shortage. I imagine that hard to recruit positions, like far fling CBOCs are likely to remain virtual. Not sure how they could enforce an office mandate on someone that is by themselves anyway.

 

[medium rare]

Hi all,

Due to a change in life circumstances (mainly being location-bond to one place), I'm looking to move from academic to federal government work. I have 12 months to do this (*maybe* 24 months if the chips all line up, but I'm not counting on that)--there's a small chance an academic job may open up where I need to be, but obviously, I can't bet on that. Over the past month, I've applied to a lot of federal jobs, both local clinical jobs and remote research jobs. I've gotten some referrals but no interviews or offers yet (which I wouldn't really expect, given that those posting closed less than a month ago, if they aren't still open, and federal hiring is, IME, slow). what I'm wondering is if it makes sense to take a VA job literally anywhere, with the goal of getting in the system, moving, and being able to apply for internal postings back in my location-bound location, or if I should wait a bit and consider that later if needed?

Thanks!

If you’re location-bound and want to move into clinical work, have you considered private practice? There are many advantages to that compared to employed, clinical work.

 

[MCParent]

Transition to industry! It’s wonderful here!

(Emperor voice) do iiiit

 

[WisNeuro]

Transition to industry! It’s wonderful here!

(Emperor voice) do iiiit

He lives! Welcome back you glorious bastard!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Transition to industry! It’s wonderful here!

(Emperor voice) do iiiit

Glad you are enjoying the "dark side"! 🙂

 

[MCParent]

Glad you are enjoying the "dark side"! 🙂

Pretty sure the dark side is the one that demands professors work for free (summers, evenings and weekends, peer reviews and ed boards, customer service oriented teaching policies) while criminally underpaying them. 😉

 

[Pragma]

Pretty sure the dark side is the one that demands professors work for free (summers, evenings and weekends, peer reviews and ed boards, customer service oriented teaching policies) while criminally underpaying them. 😉

Well said.

 

[Sanman]

Pretty sure the dark side is the one that demands professors work for free (summers, evenings and weekends, peer reviews and ed boards, customer service oriented teaching policies) while criminally underpaying them. 😉

Given all of the older academics I know are retiring and many of the younger and middle career folks leaving, I am curious to see what academia will look like over the next decade.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Pretty sure the dark side is the one that demands professors work for free (summers, evenings and weekends, peer reviews and ed boards, customer service oriented teaching policies) while criminally underpaying them. 😉

With ever-increasing tuition rates at many universities, we know that money ain't going to professors or instructors...

 

[futureapppsy2]

Pretty sure the dark side is the one that demands professors work for free (summers, evenings and weekends, peer reviews and ed boards, customer service oriented teaching policies) while criminally underpaying them. 😉

Yeah, the amount of free work I'm asked to do is baffling and insane sometimes. (Though at least we can straight-up say no to any summer work here if we aren't getting summer salary--I have colleagues who don't check their emails from May until August and have gotten tenured and promoted without difficulty).

 

[Ollie123]

This week I have spent:
- 6 hours managing contract negotiations around license renewal for my EMA software during which I told a university VP his department needs to get their **** together
- 2 hours managing IT issues related to folder access, loss of account access at an affiliate university and installing basic stats software they aren't familiar with
- 3 hours preparing for a meeting about entering trial accrual information into a system for the cancer center that serves no actual scientific purpose but they need for their grant
- 4 hours drafting an invention disclosure form for our commercialization office for a thing we did that could conceivably be patented but probably won't be. I have to tell them the commercialization plan and is apparently not an acceptable answer
- 3 hours coordinating with HR about employee issues
- 4 hours updating my portion of a 95 page progress report for a state grant where I pretend I had time to do important training-related things when I spent most of my time dealing with administrative nonsense
- 1 hour meeting with my biostatisticians - likely my only science for the week

I make more than an average academic, but would genuinely take a sizable pay cut to avoid most of the above.

Back on the original topic: Assuming you are committed to federal gov work, it might help to share some specifics (feel free to PM if you don't want to post publicly). Are you committed to VA? There are lots of options for some with a research background in the federal world. I've had colleagues leave for staff-level positions in lots of different entities. Knowing a little about your background, I imagine DOE or other agencies might be relevant too.

 

[Pragma]

This week I have spent:
- 6 hours managing contract negotiations around license renewal for my EMA software during which I told a university VP his department needs to get their **** together
- 2 hours managing IT issues related to
- 3 hours preparing for a meeting about entering trial accrual information into a system for the cancer center that serves no actual scientific purpose but they need for their grant
- 4 hours drafting an invention disclosure form for our commercialization office for a thing we did that could conceivably be patented but probably won't be. I have to tell them the commercialization plan and is apparently not an acceptable answer
- 3 hours coordinating with HR about employee issues
- 4 hours updating my portion of a 95 page progress report for a state grant where I pretend I had time to do important training-related things when I spent most of my time dealing with administrative nonsense
- 1 hour meeting with my biostatisticians - likely my only science for the week

I make more than an average academic, but would genuinely take a sizable pay cut to avoid most of the above.

Back on the original topic: Assuming you are committed to federal gov work, it might help to share some specifics (feel free to PM if you don't want to post publicly). Are you committed to VA? There are lots of options for some with a research background in the federal world. I've had colleagues leave for staff-level positions in lots of different entities. Knowing a little about your background, I imagine DOE or other agencies might be relevant too.

This hits too close to home!

 

[futureapppsy2]

This week I have spent:
- 6 hours managing contract negotiations around license renewal for my EMA software during which I told a university VP his department needs to get their **** together
- 2 hours managing IT issues related to
- 3 hours preparing for a meeting about entering trial accrual information into a system for the cancer center that serves no actual scientific purpose but they need for their grant
- 4 hours drafting an invention disclosure form for our commercialization office for a thing we did that could conceivably be patented but probably won't be. I have to tell them the commercialization plan and is apparently not an acceptable answer
- 3 hours coordinating with HR about employee issues
- 4 hours updating my portion of a 95 page progress report for a state grant where I pretend I had time to do important training-related things when I spent most of my time dealing with administrative nonsense
- 1 hour meeting with my biostatisticians - likely my only science for the week

I make more than an average academic, but would genuinely take a sizable pay cut to avoid most of the above.

Back on the original topic: Assuming you are committed to federal gov work, it might help to share some specifics (feel free to PM if you don't want to post publicly). Are you committed to VA? There are lots of options for some with a research background in the federal world. I've had colleagues leave for staff-level positions in lots of different entities. Knowing a little about your background, I imagine DOE or other agencies might be relevant too.

I'll shoot you a PM. (And I've spent countless hours this week trying to explain that "I have a grant that buys out my course this semester, so I'm not actually teaching that course," so I feel you).

 

[ClinicalABA]

Given all of the older academics I know are retiring and many of the younger and middle career folks leaving, I am curious to see what academia will look like over the next decade.

Can you say A-D-J-U-N-C-T?

While I certainly don't like the "we'll expect you to work full-time but will pay you peanuts and offer no benefits" model of adjunct reliant higher ed, I have a soft spot for the "we'll pay a grizzled old clinician 5k to teach an evening class" model.

 

[Sanman]

Can you say A-D-J-U-N-C-T?

While I certainly don't like the "we'll expect you to work full-time but will pay you peanuts and offer no benefits" model of adjunct reliant higher ed, I have a soft spot for the "we'll pay a grizzled old clinician 5k to teach an evening class" model.

Most of my friends who adjunct (non-clinical PhDs) have taken government or industry work or just plain left teaching. That goes for a several elementary ed folks too. The salaries can't sustain a family. Maybe Gen Z will take up the mantle of poverty, but they seem wise to the game.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

@futureapppsy2 This seems like a big change (and a bit sudden from this forum's perspective). I am assuming you will be leaving your current state to one that aligns with your values more. Also, it is very nice to read that you are willing to change your life for this SO. Keep us updated and we wish you the best. Mid career changes are seemingly more and more common here.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

customer service oriented teaching policies

feels like there is a story here...

 

[smalltownpsych]

Why not go private practice? A year to get it rolling would be nice. I only had a few months.