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MPH after medical school

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Newt23

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I have a question about timing and getting into an EM residency. I would like to complete my MPH after I have finished med school. This is to ensure continuity of the medical school experience, and to provide a framework for research during residency.

But I have heard that it is more difficult to get a residency spot if you take a year off before residency. Is this true? I would not want to jeopardize my residency potential for an MPH.
Thanks!
 

EctopicFetus

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Yes. They find it odd. You might be able to do a free MPH while in residency.. This is a much wiser choice. WHy waste the time and money.
 

MD13

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Do you know which programs allow for an MPH (or other degree) during residency?
 
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Docuronium

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I have a question about timing and getting into an EM residency. I would like to complete my MPH after I have finished med school. This is to ensure continuity of the medical school experience, and to provide a framework for research during residency.

But I have heard that it is more difficult to get a residency spot if you take a year off before residency. Is this true? I would not want to jeopardize my residency potential for an MPH.
Thanks!

I don't know if the "it's a waste" attitude is correct. The program director at my institution very strongly recommended that I go get a an MPH during medical school. My recommendation is to discuss this with the program director at your institution or someone else you trust with a fairly strong background in academic emergency medicine (or someone who at least knows how a program selects people for their program).

The thing I would find odd is doing it after medical school rather than during it. Almost everyone I've come across has said to do it in between the 3rd and 4th year of medical school (less frequently between 2nd and 3rd, but still a popular option).
 

Newt23

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Do you know which programs allow for an MPH (or other degree) during residency?

this is a great question. I have looked around a bit on google, but i haven't returned many answers.
 

zinjanthropus

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I would suggest doing it after residency during a fellowship. We offer an EMS and an Admin fellowship here at USF that includes an MPH if you want it while making a decent salary. There are a number of programs offering admin, health policy, international medicine and EMS fellowships that lead to an MPH.
 

Newt23

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I would suggest doing it after residency during a fellowship. We offer an EMS and an Admin fellowship here at USF that includes an MPH if you want it while making a decent salary. There are a number of programs offering admin, health policy, international medicine and EMS fellowships that lead to an MPH.

That is a great point for me to consider. It seems like most folks either doing between the 3/4 year or after residency.

I am a bit torn on this point. I would like to complete my mph at a school like hopkins or emory, which would further narrow my fellowship opportunities (assuming they are competitive). also, i have a family, and I would like to settle in an area sooner than later. Taking another few years to complete a fellowship, is more time in "limbo".

But the mph is paid for through the fellowship, and these top schools are very expensive. i am quite torn on how to best move forward.
 

DeadCactus

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Many of the Ivy league MPH (and MBA) programs have executive versions which involve a lot of distance learning with some minor on-campus time...
 

Newt23

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Many of the Ivy league MPH (and MBA) programs have executive versions which involve a lot of distance learning with some minor on-campus time...

Ahh that is interesting, but would those be paid for by the sponsoring fellowship institution? I doubt it, but it would be nice
 

DeadCactus

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I wouldn't count on a fellowship paying for a degree outside of the sponsoring institution but I don't really know. I still think waiting to do an MPH through a residency/fellowship at program you're interested, trying to get it paid for by an employer after you finish, or just paying out of pocket when you're an attending all seem like much better ideas than paying out of pocket as a broke and unlicensed graduate. Not to mention it makes your application stick out in a potentially bad way...
 

dotcb

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I did an MPH between med school & residency - and i'd recommend against it.

pros:
i was more productive in research as a resident as a result
the degree looks good
it is easy
there's no question i got my job because of the dual degree and research productivity as a resident

cons:
better to do as a fellow and get paid to do it
post-residency, what you learn will be relevant to how you want to use it, because you'll forget everything you learned while being a worker bee as a resident
later = better able to tailor it toward your needs

I didn't lose any time doing it, so for me there was little downside, but for med students who are considering this - I recommend against it, unless you're unsure of what field to go into or need to kill a year to couples match or something. Better to do an MPH later as a fellow or get your employer to pay for it. You'll be much more able to tailor what you learn toward your goals
 

James105

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While I agree it is very nice to have a program or employer pay for your MPH, there is no guarantee that this will happen. Also, if you want to get a degree from a "top" school and you do a fellowship at a lower ranked school, you will have to settle with the different level of MPH.

I decided to get the MPH early. I think it will provide a way to research during residency and give me strength as I look for academic jobs.
 

wook

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I did an MPH between med school & residency - and i'd recommend against it.

cons:
better to do as a fellow and get paid to do it
post-residency, what you learn will be relevant to how you want to use it, because you'll forget everything you learned while being a worker bee as a resident
later = better able to tailor it toward your needs

Agreed with above.

Got through most of my MPH in fellowship, and finishing it up now. Glad I did it the way I did. Definitely can tailor and take electives more pertinent to where you want to go with it. Also, you'll have much more clinical experience which provides insights into many of the classes you'll take.



Thanks.



Wook
 

Bojack Horseman

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is there any practical benefit (i.e. other than interest) to getting an MPH if you plan on working in the community? i imagine you might become more socially conscious and have a better understanding of certain healthcare issues, but does it help in the job hunt or help you do your job per se?
 

logos

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I agree with the above. Got my MPH during med school. It ended up increasing my debt (interest during the MPH year). Whereas if I got it during fellowship, the year would have counted toward the 10yrs for IBR forgiveness, I would have been paid 2x as much during the year, and I would have had better research opportunities that year. There were a couple of fellows in my class and they just seemed to have a better time of it. Not to mention it is a break from work whereas for the medical student it is just more classes.
 

HoosierdaddyO

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Curious what other residents and attendings opinions are about completing an online MPH degree (at a top 10 ranked program) over the course of 2 to 3 years during residency. Aka 1-2 online classes per semester. Is it feasible/ doable?! Is it advisable or there won't be any time what so ever?!
 
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Curious what other residents and attendings opinions are about completing an online MPH degree (at a top 10 ranked program) over the course of 2 to 3 years during residency. Aka 1-2 online classes per semester. Is it feasible/ doable?! Is it advisable or there won't be any time what so ever?!

There are much more valuable things you can do with your time during residency. Sleeping, eating, spending time with family and working out come to mind.
 
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HoosierdaddyO

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I don't disagree, but say I have already completed half of the course work 23/46 credits during medical school. Would it be silly to just drop the program or to take 8 credits per year for three years (that doesn't seem too demanding, or does it). I'm not in residency yet so hence the inquiry :)?!
 

deuist

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I was so busy in residency, I can't imagine chasing after another graduate degree. With the exception of a few light rotations such as ultrasound, you're not going to want to read for an MPH class after you've finished all of your Tintinalli readings for the week.
 
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goodoldalky

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is there any practical benefit (i.e. other than interest) to getting an MPH if you plan on working in the community? i imagine you might become more socially conscious and have a better understanding of certain healthcare issues, but does it help in the job hunt or help you do your job per se?

No
 

goodoldalky

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Curious what other residents and attendings opinions are about completing an online MPH degree (at a top 10 ranked program) over the course of 2 to 3 years during residency. Aka 1-2 online classes per semester. Is it feasible/ doable?! Is it advisable or there won't be any time what so ever?!

No
 

HoosierdaddyO

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I greatly appreciate the response :). Care to elaborate on the fact that I'm already half way through the mph...is literally taking 1 master level class each semester overburdening throughout residency. Appreciate the response ahead of time!!
 

DeadCactus

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Yes, you can probably do it depending on your program and your own abilities. You will take away time from recreation and clinical academics which are both probably better investments at that point in your career. I argue that you are better off doing it after residency when you have more time to meaningfully invest. The MPH is like an MBA, a lot of the real value comes from the experience and networking rather than just the letters after your name.
 
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goodoldalky

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I greatly appreciate the response :). Care to elaborate on the fact that I'm already half way through the mph...is literally taking 1 master level class each semester overburdening throughout residency. Appreciate the response ahead of time!!

1. There's no time. At least for me there were 4-6 month stretches particularly with trauma, OB, ICU, etc., where I was working 80-100 hours per week. There wasn't any time to do anything extra. This is also in the context of required lectures to give, lectures to attend, power points to prepare, research to do, exams to study for, etc. Giving my all as a resident left time for minimal other activity. It is possible to do but is probably "overburdening".

2. For 99.5% of EM residency graduates an MPH will have zero value. Why do you want an MPH? Because you're already halfway done may be a good reason but there are very few positions where an MPH will give you an advantage in some way (i.e.: academic fellowship director for global health, etc.). Most of the things you can do with an MPH will also pay you less than you would make spending that time as a community ER doc. If you want to take a pay cut to do that (many docs take pay cuts to 'mix up' their clinical schedule with something else, i.e.: I do some event medicine that pays less than my usual clinical time), and you've planned that all along, then maybe it is worth it.
 
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HoosierdaddyO

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1. There's no time. At least for me there were 4-6 month stretches particularly with trauma, OB, ICU, etc., where I was working 80-100 hours per week. There wasn't any time to do anything extra. This is also in the context of required lectures to give, lectures to attend, power points to prepare, research to do, exams to study for, etc. Giving my all as a resident left time for minimal other activity. It is possible to do but is probably "overburdening".

2. For 99.5% of EM residency graduates an MPH will have zero value. Why do you want an MPH? Because you're already halfway done may be a good reason but there are very few positions where an MPH will give you an advantage in some way (i.e.: academic fellowship director for global health, etc.). Most of the things you can do with an MPH will also pay you less than you would make spending that time as a community ER doc. If you want to take a pay cut to do that (many docs take pay cuts to 'mix up' their clinical schedule with something else, i.e.: I do some event medicine that pays less than my usual clinical time), and you've planned that all along, then maybe it is worth it.
Thanks for the thoughtful response :)!!! My other theory was that if I ever really wanted to finish I could do an admin fellowship and have someone else foot the bill!! Thanks again!!
 
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