MS-3 EM elective or wait?

[Green912]

I'm very interested in EM (former paramedic) and am considering doing a rotation with my former med-control doc. However I'm worried about being too premature since I haven't finished all of my core rotations (completed rads, 12wks IM, OB/GYN & Peds). Should I wait and do something else or give it a shoot? Thanks.

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[BadVB750]

I just sent you a PM.

 

[GiJoe]

You should wait. You're gonna need the all the knowledge from your core rotations to handle the vast variety of patients you see in the ED.

 

[OSUdoc08]

I plan on doing most of my electives in EM, and don't do core until the final portion of the 3rd year.

I will be doing some ER rotations during my 3rd year before core, but these will not be audition rotatations, as they will be at non-residency sites.

 

[BadVB750]

I just finished my EM elective and I'm a third year. Granted, I didn't have all my cores under my belt, but I got along just fine. I learned a lot about doing good H&Ps and work-ups. Trying to figure out what is work with someone is so much more interesting then managing them.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I'm very interested in EM (former paramedic) and am considering doing a rotation with my former med-control doc. However I'm worried about being too premature since I haven't finished all of my core rotations (completed rads, 12wks IM, OB/GYN & Peds). Should I wait and do something else or give it a shoot? Thanks.

Although there is some logic to waiting until you have all the "core" rotations under your belt, if you're seriously considering EM as a specialty, then I say go for it. It's great clinical exposure (as you'll see a lot of different pathology) and it'll put you ahead of some of your colleagues. Additionally you can get a feel for it, and see if EM is right for you, which will give you an advantage when it comes to planning your 4th year schedule.

As a 3rd year I worked for pay in a private community hospital (functioning as an intern!). It was certainly shaky at first, but I gained so much knowledge, so quickly in the ED. Halfway through my third year I was managing chest pain patients, and doing laceration repairs and other procedures by myself. It was that exposure which solidified my choice going into 4th year.

 

[nabeya]

you worked for pay as a 3rd year medical student??? I didn't know you could do that.

As a 3rd year I worked for pay in a private community hospital (functioning as an intern!). It was certainly shaky at first, but I gained so much knowledge, so quickly in the ED. Halfway through my third year I was managing chest pain patients, and doing laceration repairs and other procedures by myself. It was that exposure which solidified my choice going into 4th year.

 

[GeneralVeers]

you worked for pay as a 3rd year medical student??? I didn't know you could do that.

Indianapolis is the only place I know of where hospitals will employ 3rd year students. Two hospitals: St Vincent, and St. Francis paid 3rd year students $8 per hour to work Q8 6 hour shifts seeing patients, writing up charts and doing procedures. As a 4th year we got $15 per hour. It was great experience, and really helped to pay my alcohol bills.

Another nice thing is that the students get to work 1:1 with the attendings, so I learned a lot about the financial and legal aspects of Emergency Medicine in the private setting.

 

[oudoc08]

you worked for pay as a 3rd year medical student??? I didn't know you could do that.

We have paid summer internships for students between their MS1/MS2 years for family medicine. One of goals in the EMIG this year is to get that going for EM as well.

 

[OSUdoc08]

We have paid summer internships for students between their MS1/MS2 years for family medicine. One of goals in the EMIG this year is to get that going for EM as well.

We actually have had some people use the paid internship family practice program and work in the ER in rural areas. I actually did this myself.

 

[BklynWill]

If I apply for an EM elective for the spring of my 3rd year, I will have only missed out on taking radiology and surgery.
Could this inexperience considerably affect my performance?

 

[BKN]

I'm very interested in EM (former paramedic) and am considering doing a rotation with my former med-control doc. However I'm worried about being too premature since I haven't finished all of my core rotations (completed rads, 12wks IM, OB/GYN & Peds). Should I wait and do something else or give it a shoot? Thanks.

Identical question in the "scheduling 4th year" thread. this is what I said:

We don't let 3rd years take the EM elective. EM is medicine on steroids. what we are teaching you is to use your skills in a rapid, accurate manner. We don't have time to teach you how to do a pelvic, basic pediatric jollification etc.

I think the lower grade thing is possible too.

My recommendation: Do your EM first or second rotation 4th year. If you like it and decide it's for you, schedule 1 tryout later in the year at a good program and get SLORs from both rotations.

 

[BklynWill]

Identical question in the "scheduling 4th year" thread. this is what I said:

We don't let 3rd years take the EM elective. EM is medicine on steroids. what we are teaching you is to use your skills in a rapid, accurate manner. We don't have time to teach you how to do a pelvic, basic pediatric jollification etc.

I think the lower grade thing is possible too.

My recommendation: Do your EM first or second rotation 4th year. If you like it and decide it's for you, schedule 1 tryout later in the year at a good program and get SLORs from both rotations.

This is good advice and I thank you for it. I am curious, why do some programs even offer the elective to 3rd year students? Could the nature of these program be of a lower pace?

 

[roja]

I agree with BKN. Get your cores under your belt. If you are serious about EM, you need to perform well. To perform well, you need a stong understanding of the basics.

 

[BKN]

This is good advice and I thank you for it. I am curious, why do some programs even offer the elective to 3rd year students? Could the nature of these program be of a lower pace?

I don't know, maybe they're nicer than we are. You'd have to ask such a program.

Cheers

 

[blackbird03]

my school is offering both an ER clerkship elective and an ER acting internship. Which one should i take at the beginning of fourth year? are "acting internship" better to do at "away schools"?

 

[Radiohead]

Indianapolis is the only place I know of where hospitals will employ 3rd year students. Two hospitals: St Vincent, and St. Francis paid 3rd year students $8 per hour to work Q8 6 hour shifts seeing patients, writing up charts and doing procedures. As a 4th year we got $15 per hour. It was great experience, and really helped to pay my alcohol bills.

Another nice thing is that the students get to work 1:1 with the attendings, so I learned a lot about the financial and legal aspects of Emergency Medicine in the private setting.

The attending I worked with on the Peds side last weekend told me about his moonlighting experience as a 3rd and 4th year med student. I thought he was FOS, but I guess not. BTW, he went to med school at Indiana University.

 

[TysonCook]

Our school (Cincinnati) offers a 3rd year rotation that lasts 2 weeks and is very popular. Then as a fourth year you can do your AI etc.

At least in my situation I really do suggest taking the 3rd year rotation for these reasons:

1. Gets you on board w/a good advisor early (which can be huge for getting a big name etc).
2. Lets you get a feel for the real ED as a possible profession
3. Lets you get your fourth year schedule put together (which is huge because if you want to do an away, a lot of the competitive sites are full before 4th year begins).
4. If you don't like ED, you will have ample time to fix your 4th year schedule and pursue other fields.

Bottom line....It can't hurt you. It may be difficult you, but in the end the postives are much better than negs.

Lastly, it's a little tough, but if your program offers it as a 3rd year, the attendings usually will recognize this and act appropriately and not throw you in as they would a 4th year.

 

[deuist]

This is good advice and I thank you for it. I am curious, why do some programs even offer the elective to 3rd year students? Could the nature of these program be of a lower pace?

My school (Miami) requires all 3rd years to do either a 4 week rotation in EM, or a 4 week rotation equally divided into EM and critical care. The assignment into 3rd year rotations is completely random, meaning that students have no control over scheduling their preferred rotations later when their skills are stronger.

 

[policymaker]

Would it be a terrible idea to do your first EM rotation at a place where you really want to do your residency at? I have 5-6 specialties that I'm trying to decide between, so I'll be spending the first half of 4th year rotating in each one, which means my EM rotation will have to also serve as my audition rotation should I decide to go into EM. I've gotten mostly honors in my 3rd year rotations so far, if that helps.

 

[coffeebeing]

Would it be a terrible idea to do your first EM rotation at a place where you really want to do your residency at? I have 5-6 specialties that I'm trying to decide between, so I'll be spending the first half of 4th year rotating in each one, which means my EM rotation will have to also serve as my audition rotation should I decide to go into EM. I've gotten mostly honors in my 3rd year rotations so far, if that helps.

I'd like to know the answer too.