MS0 inquiry: class / SES tensions between rich and poor in medical school

[chayadoing]

I’m an MS0 who is finding being an accepted incoming medical student is unexpectedly causing a lot of different types of tensions among my peers. (In the interests of full disclosure, I had to defer matriculation to July 2023 because of the pandemic delaying a major surgery to this fall, and I was strongly advised not to recover from major surgery while simultaneously starting my first semester in med school.)

My super-clever, astute and empathetic life partner who I intend to marry is a DACA recipient who is lower-income but his education has been severely impacted by his inability to get federal financial aid due to his immigration status. (My plan is that he will obtain citizenship through me in the near future s/p marriage so he can afford grad school). He feels insecure whenever he hangs out with my wealthier peers and friends (residents / med students) whose advice helped me get into medical school.

At times, when wealthier peers from college, in medical school or medicine hang out with my partner and friends from foster care, the youth shelter, etc. at social functions there has been unexpected significant discord. My poorer friends often feel the lines of conversation initiated by wealthier peers are out of touch with their socioeconomic reality; both peers groups often feel hurt when I end up trying to mediate instead of “choosing sides” and get asked “why didn’t you stand up for me ?!”

Among my poorer peers there’s a strong stigma against being a class traitor. It’s our ingrained culture to make fun of the antics of the wealthy when we struggled with poverty for so long. I also have a habit of making jokes at the expense of the wealthy as part of class solidarity. Is it wrong to expect wealthier peers to take these jokes in stride? After all, that’s simply how many poor patients will feel although they might not express that to my wealthy peers’ faces.

I also cannot understand why so many of my wealthy colleagues and peers who are in various stages of medical training so hostile and defensive to disadvantaged colleagues. Socioeconomic disparities in how we grew up will simply mean that wealthy colleagues will simply never truly understand the struggles of our communities first-hand. I never thought that would be so controversial to express.

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[deleted1139416]

I’m an MS0 who is finding being an accepted incoming medical student is unexpectedly causing a lot of different types of tensions among my peers. (In the interests of full disclosure, I had to defer matriculation to July 2023 because of the pandemic delaying a major surgery to this fall, and I was strongly advised not to recover from major surgery while simultaneously starting my first semester in med school.)

My super-clever, astute and empathetic life partner who I intend to marry is a DACA recipient who is lower-income but his education has been severely impacted by his inability to get federal financial aid due to his immigration status. (My plan is that he will obtain citizenship through me in the near future s/p marriage so he can afford grad school). He feels insecure whenever he hangs out with my wealthier peers and friends (residents / med students) whose advice helped me get into medical school.

At times, when wealthier peers from college, in medical school or medicine hang out with my partner and friends from foster care, the youth shelter, etc. at social functions there has been unexpected significant discord. My poorer friends often feel the lines of conversation initiated by wealthier peers are out of touch with their socioeconomic reality; both peers groups often feel hurt when I end up trying to mediate instead of “choosing sides” and get asked “why didn’t you stand up for me ?!”

Among my poorer peers there’s a strong stigma against being a class traitor. It’s our ingrained culture to make fun of the antics of the wealthy when we struggled with poverty for so long. I also have a habit of making jokes at the expense of the wealthy as part of class solidarity. Is it wrong to expect wealthier peers to take these jokes in stride? After all, that’s simply how many poor patients will feel although they might not express that to my wealthy peers’ faces.

I also cannot understand why so many of my wealthy colleagues and peers who are in various stages of medical training so hostile and defensive to disadvantaged colleagues. Socioeconomic disparities in how we grew up will simply mean that wealthy colleagues will simply never truly understand the struggles of our communities first-hand. I never thought that would be so controversial to express.

You never know what someone is going through. Someone could have grown up financially privileged but struggled in a million different other ways growing up, or even currently. Your classmates might also think that you are invalidating their achievements by saying they only got into medical school cause they come from a wealthy family. Also - the fact that you are making jokes at someone to fit in with your other friends is literally the definition of peer pressure bullying.

 

[chayadoing]

You never know what someone is going through. Someone could have grown up financially privileged but struggled in a million different other ways growing up, or even currently. Your classmates might also think that you are invalidating their achievements by saying they only got into medical school cause they come from a wealthy family. Also - the fact that you are making jokes at someone to fit in with your other friends is literally the definition of peer pressure bullying.

we made these jokes in the shelter or in foster care when we were treated like outcasts in society — so I don’t think it’s bullying when people of less socioeconomic status are complaining of those with more privilege. the power dynamics are entirely different. and as a member of the working class i’ve been able to kvetch about the habits of wealthy in many different types of work settings to my working class colleagues. am I expected to suppress my working class identity in medical school in front of my peers?

 

[deleted1139416]

we made these jokes in the shelter or in foster care when we were treated like outcasts in society — so I don’t think it’s bullying when people of less socioeconomic status are complaining of those with more privilege. the power dynamics are entirely different. and as a member of the working class i’ve been able to kvetch about the habits of wealthy in many different types of work settings to my working class colleagues. am I expected to suppress my working class identity in medical school in front of my peers?

You haven't given any details about what you are specifically doing. There is a difference between expressing the fact that you struggled growing up (which is valid) and going up to your classmate and saying "the only reason you're in med school is because you are rich". They worked hard to get into medical school also, and it isn't fair to take credit away from them for that. If one of these rich kids says something obnoxious about living in poverty, then by all means roast them down to hell. But don't start beef for no reason. Keep in mind that medicine is a team effort. You can express yourself all you want and however you want. But bullying, teasing, and making snide comments about people has negative consequences and burns bridges, and you never know whose help you may need. And trust me, going through med school with a bunch of your classmates disliking you will be hell, because there is someone in my class like that and I am happy it's not me (not that I was ever worried it would).

 

[threepwood]

What sort of “hostility” and “defensiveness” are being displayed by your wealthy colleagues and peers?

 

[Goro]

Among my poorer peers there’s a strong stigma against being a class traitor.

Find better peers, because as a doctor, it's highly likely that you will be wealthy.

Class traitor? Really??? Do your peers think they're living in England? The nerve of you to want to better your life. (That's sarcasm there).

 

[wholeheartedly]

I come from a lower income household. It sucked. But everyone has their own challenges in life.

If your different friend groups don’t mix for whatever reason, just don’t mix them. You can hang out with both, just separately. There’s nothing wrong with that. But I’d also advise that if people are obviously bothered by your jokes, stop making them. Good friends don’t do that and it does seem a bit like you’re trying to prove something. Some wealthy people might be a bit out of touch but that doesn’t make them bad people. Some people are out of touch because they just have’t experienced things that would help them understand better but would learn if given the opportunity and others maybe don’t care to.

You cracking jokes at the the expense of your wealthy friends might actually be costing you a golden opportunity for them to really learn something valuable from you and your other friends and your experiences by alienating them instead. If instead you just hung out with them instead of trying to teach them or put them in their place or call out their class, things might go fine.

 

[wysdoc]

I was also poor compared to most of my classmates. I was friendly to them in class and at school and this worked for me. I couldn’t afford to go out to dinner or on ski trips and all that. It’s not why I was in med school. It’s not a contest about who has more stuff. Going to med school was my way to earn my future. Being snarky and envious was not a way to do that.

 

[_med21_e]

What is defined as wealthy here? Looks are often deceiving, and wealth is often subjective. I grew up extremely poor (on food stamps, got free lunches, literally worked paycheck to check, 60 hours a week in undergrad, even though I was still living at home). Now my family earns a lot more collectively. So, I've been on both sides of the spectrum. It's 2022, assuming you're still in your 20s, we are part of a generation that mostly understands those socioeconomic disconnects, a lot of my friends (both poor and wealthy) will pay for my dinner, or I'll pay for their lunch/coffee. I've had wealthier friends offer to relieve a lot of my own financial burden when I was struggling. People understand and people empathize. It's very concerning that both of your friend groups are acting like this because that is NOT normal, whether they are in medical school/foster youth/etc.

Sounds more like jealously, especially if your S/O and friends might feel like they weren't granted the same success you earned yourself. I only say this due to past experiences, but OP... pick better friends.

"He feels insecure whenever he hangs out with my wealthier peers and friends (residents / med students) whose advice helped me get into medical school." Red flag, OP. Huge red flag.

 

[chayadoing]

What is defined as wealthy here? Looks are often deceiving, and wealth is often subjective. I grew up extremely poor (on food stamps, got free lunches, literally worked paycheck to check, 60 hours a week in undergrad, even though I was still living at home). Now my family earns a lot more collectively. So, I've been on both sides of the spectrum. It's 2022, assuming you're still in your 20s, we are part of a generation that mostly understands those socioeconomic disconnects, a lot of my friends (both poor and wealthy) will pay for my dinner, or I'll pay for their lunch/coffee. I've had wealthier friends offer to relieve a lot of my own financial burden when I was struggling. People understand and people empathize. It's very concerning that both of your friend groups are acting like this because that is NOT normal, whether they are in medical school/foster youth/etc.

Sounds more like jealously, especially if your S/O and friends might feel like they weren't granted the same success you earned yourself. I only say this due to past experiences, but OP... pick better friends.

"He feels insecure whenever he hangs out with my wealthier peers and friends (residents / med students) whose advice helped me get into medical school." Red flag, OP. Huge red flag.

My boyfriend is trans, working class and an immigrant of color, just like me. We have more in common IMO than I will ever have with the type of privileged wealthy students I have had to tutor over the years to pay my rent.

My friends became my family and helped me survive when my own parents were abusive, dysfunctional and unreliable. To me, I will always have more in common with my chosen family then I will have with the type of wealthy student who will shut down discussion at lunch (at a volunteer gig) about financial aid because they can’t trade.

I have housed friends when they lost their job and apartment during the pandemic or got evicted. Likewise, my poor friends have turned up for me at critical moments in my life when my wealthy friends from college never showed up.

Also as a physician I understand I will be out earning many of my peers but I intend to use my extra income to build community institutions. I am not in medicine for the money. I have a working class identity and care deeply about social justice in my communities and I don’t understand why I am expected to discard my identity.

 

[_med21_e]

My boyfriend is trans, working class and an immigrant of color, just like me. We have more in common IMO than I will ever have with the type of privileged wealthy students I have had to tutor over the years to pay my rent.

My friends became my family and helped me survive when my own parents were abusive, dysfunctional and unreliable. To me, I will always have more in common with my chosen family then I will have with the type of wealthy student who will shut down discussion at lunch (at a volunteer gig) about financial aid because they can’t trade.

I have housed friends when they lost their job and apartment during the pandemic or got evicted. Likewise, my poor friends have turned up for me at critical moments in my life when my wealthy friends from college never showed up.

Also as a physician I understand I will be out earning many of my peers but I intend to use my extra income to build community institutions. I am not in medicine for the money. I have a working class identity and care deeply about social justice in my communities and I don’t understand why I am expected to discard my identity.

I know my post comes off insensitive and I apologize if I do, but you'd be surprised by how many people like you, people like me, actually exist in the medical field. I'm a woman of color, working class, from a country that has been ravaged by war and military interference, a religious minority both in America AND overseas, the list goes on.

I get it, I really do. But you're making it sound like every medical student/resident/physician is some rich snob who doesn't understand what it is like to struggle. But, believe it or not, and idk what kind of medical students you're hanging out with, but a good majority of us actually understand where you're coming from. To be quite honest, I know more immigrant/LGBTQ+/POC/poor/minorities in MY circle who are pursing medical/dental/higher education, but it might also be my location and simply a smaller sample size? IDK

No one is telling you to discard your identity or your reasons for why you chose medicine. But please consider the fact that one day, and yes this WILL happen, but one of these days, someone in your disadvantaged circle is gonna classify YOU as the wealthy friend and shut you out because they're gonna feel like they can't relate/connect with you due to your wealth/social status as a physician. Even then, keep doing what you plan on doing because that's their problem, and not yours.

ALL I'M SAYING, tread lightly here. If you don't want to give up either group of friends, that's fine, but stop putting them in the same circle if its gonna keep creating tension. Simple as that.

 

[Goro]

My boyfriend is trans, working class and an immigrant of color, just like me. We have more in common IMO than I will ever have with the type of privileged wealthy students I have had to tutor over the years to pay my rent.

My friends became my family and helped me survive when my own parents were abusive, dysfunctional and unreliable. To me, I will always have more in common with my chosen family then I will have with the type of wealthy student who will shut down discussion at lunch (at a volunteer gig) about financial aid because they can’t trade.

I have housed friends when they lost their job and apartment during the pandemic or got evicted. Likewise, my poor friends have turned up for me at critical moments in my life when my wealthy friends from college never showed up.

Also as a physician I understand I will be out earning many of my peers but I intend to use my extra income to build community institutions. I am not in medicine for the money. I have a working class identity and care deeply about social justice in my communities and I don’t understand why I am expected to discard my identity.

No one here is telling you to. Just stop dissing people and treat all others with respect, unlike some of your peers are doing to you..

 

[operaman]

Either this is a troll post or someone who simply lacks any modicum of social skills.

On the 1% chance this isn’t a troll - you’re entering a profession. You aren’t going to bend it to your will; you either adapt and fit in or be ready for a long struggle or a short career. You can keep your identity…unless that identity is predicated upon trashing your peers in a vain attempt to assuage your own insecurities.

You’re going to be a physician. That’s the identity that matters. All those wealthy kids are also going to physicians. They’re your colleagues, not a Twitter nemesis.

Time to grow up.

 

[RangerBob]

Med school is an interesting time. I'd always thought I was well-off, defined by my parents paying for most of my undergrad and my Dad giving me a used pick-up truck in college. It was certainly better off than my wife who grew up with foreclosures, hiding from bill collectors, bars on windows, etc. Then I get to med school where it was common for many folks to have new Mercedes purchased by their parents, med school tuition/housing (often downtown) all paid (I had to borrow the full cost), etc. etc.

At first I and my med school friends (who varied from growing up in poverty/on food stamps to more-or-less the same financial situation as me) were jealous of the ritzy kids (and they were always younger than us too!), judged them, etc. It's easy to judge people who grew up differently. We all think we represent "real/working" Americans--the 1% is always somebody else--not use.

Pretty quickly as we all got to know each other the judgements stopped. The "spoiled rich kids" stopped judging my friends and I and we stopped judging them. Why? Because 95% of us had the same goals in mind, and the same hearts. We just grew up in different circumstances. The wealthier kids have a different outlook on life, but they still helped us when we got stuck in anatomy, couldn't figure something out in group, etc. And visa-versa. And our outlooks converged a bit. As medical students, regardless of what your plans are with your degree/money, you're very much stratified into a privileged class. We may not take advantage of it, but we have the freedom to make a lot of money, work where we want, work part-time, etc. We have so much more flexibility than 95% of Americans. Our profession still earns respect from the vast majority of humans--simply because of what our profession does, and not what we as an individual do. Want respect as a lawyer? You gotta earn it personally, and even then your average American isn't going to respect you.

Medicine simply comes with a lot of privilege. Part of that is because of the responsibility that comes with it to.

You can stay who you are and keep true to your roots. But don't look down on others because they grew up with more money/privilege, didn't have the tough times like you did. We truly don't know what others have been though. Be proud of what you and your friends have accomplished, and welcome others with different backgrounds/beliefs just as you would want them to welcome you and your friends as well. Then go forth and change the world.

 

[_med21_e]

Med school is an interesting time. I'd always thought I was well-off, defined by my parents paying for most of my undergrad and my Dad giving me a used pick-up truck in college. It was certainly better off than my wife who grew up with foreclosures, hiding from bill collectors, bars on windows, etc. Then I get to med school where it was common for many folks to have new Mercedes purchased by their parents, med school tuition/housing (often downtown) all paid (I had to borrow the full cost), etc. etc.

At first I and my med school friends (who varied from growing up in poverty/on food stamps to more-or-less the same financial situation as me) were jealous of the ritzy kids (and they were always younger than us too!), judged them, etc. It's easy to judge people who grew up differently. We all think we represent "real/working" Americans--the 1% is always somebody else--not use.

Pretty quickly as we all got to know each other the judgements stopped. The "spoiled rich kids" stopped judging my friends and I and we stopped judging them. Why? Because 95% of us had the same goals in mind, and the same hearts. We just grew up in different circumstances. The wealthier kids have a different outlook on life, but they still helped us when we got stuck in anatomy, couldn't figure something out in group, etc. And visa-versa. And our outlooks converged a bit. As medical students, regardless of what your plans are with your degree/money, you're very much stratified into a privileged class. We may not take advantage of it, but we have the freedom to make a lot of money, work where we want, work part-time, etc. We have so much more flexibility than 95% of Americans. Our profession still earns respect from the vast majority of humans--simply because of what our profession does, and not what we as an individual do. Want respect as a lawyer? You gotta earn it personally, and even then your average American isn't going to respect you.

Medicine simply comes with a lot of privilege. Part of that is because of the responsibility that comes with it to.

You can stay who you are and keep true to your roots. But don't look down on others because they grew up with more money/privilege, didn't have the tough times like you did. We truly don't know what others have been though. Be proud of what you and your friends have accomplished, and welcome others with different backgrounds/beliefs just as you would want them to welcome you and your friends as well. Then go forth and change the world.

Well said. Not gonna lie, I used to be EXTREMELY jealous of a lot of my peers when I was in undergrad because they didn't share the same struggles as I did. I had to borrow loans to help pay for schools while a lot of my friends had parents paying up, but then I also had friends whose parents refused to give them tax info for fafsa so they were not able to attend college or friends who spent their entire lives in America but stuck on an F1 visa so they aged a lot faster than I did because it could have meant deportation etc etc etc. There's always something to be grateful for and I'm very glad I grew out of this bitter mindset (not saying OP is like this, but personally, I was bitter and jealous myself).

 

[chayadoing]

Either this is a troll post or someone who simply lacks any modicum of social skills.

On the 1% chance this isn’t a troll - you’re entering a profession. You aren’t going to bend it to your will; you either adapt and fit in or be ready for a long struggle or a short career. You can keep your identity…unless that identity is predicated upon trashing your peers in a vain attempt to assuage your own insecurities.

You’re going to be a physician. That’s the identity that matters. All those wealthy kids are also going to physicians. They’re your colleagues, not a Twitter nemesis.

Time to grow up.

why do the wealthy always think i’m trolling ? I honestly am starting to believe that those of us who had to survive foster care, youth homelessness, running away from abuse, etc. have had to hide our true selves so much that wealthy peers simply don’t think we exist as their colleagues. why is that wealthy peers get to make jokes at the expense of homeless and disadvantaged people in our presence (i have witnessed this in various clinical settings) but students from working class backgrounds are castigated for pointing out that “you don’t get it / you weren’t there / you didn’t have to struggle the way we did”? why is that wealthy peers get to control the discussion while the impoverished are silenced?

 

[_med21_e]

why do the wealthy always think i’m trolling ? I honestly am starting to believe that those of us who had to survive foster care, youth homelessness, running away from abuse, etc. have had to hide our true selves that wealthy peers simply don’t think we exist as their colleagues. why is that wealthy peers get to make jokes at the expense of homeless and disadvantaged people in our presence (i have witnessed this in various clinical settings) but students from working class backgrounds are castigated for pointing out that “you don’t get it / you weren’t there / you didn’t have to struggle the way we did”? why is that wealthy peers get to control the discussion but while the impoverished are silenced?

You're right, it does exist, which is why it's our job to change that when we are physicians.

 

[threepwood]

why do the wealthy always think i’m trolling ?

This made me lol

 

[chayadoing]

This made me lol

but seriously tho — it’s always the super-privileged who seem incredulous

for exemple, when i was homeless, circumstances were extremely unstable and dire. Three of my shelter friends (and I) fell under the influence of a pimp simply because we had very few alternatives for surviving. needless to say, our experiences following this misinformed decision were extremely horrific and exploitative and one of my friends died of an overdose following the subsequent long ordeal. I actually wrote about this experience (with many aspects heavily redacted) for my applications.

there are some people on here so wealthy and/or privileged they literally think i’m trolling whenever I have to tell parts of my story of survival for context. (e.g. being disadvantaged) they even think my mcat score is further evidence of trolling because the idea of a former survival sw getting a 519 without studying seems laughable to them even when i attribute my performance to tutoring wealthy premeds for survival (and thus essentially got paid to study their material and teach it back to them). Why is that we must put up with having our stories of survival get silenced and ridiculed in such a manner, but we cannot likewise reciprocate such treatment to wealthy peers? this seems neither just nor equitable.

 

[operaman]

but seriously tho — it’s always the super-privileged who seem incredulous

for exemple, when i was homeless, circumstances were extremely unstable and dire. Three of my shelter friends (and I) fell under the influence of a pimp simply because we had very few alternatives for surviving. needless to say, our experiences following this misinformed decision were extremely horrific and exploitative and one of my friends died of an overdose following the subsequent long ordeal. I actually wrote about this experience (with many aspects heavily redacted) for my applications.

there are some people on here so wealthy and/or privileged they literally think i’m trolling whenever I have to tell parts of my story of survival for context. (e.g. being disadvantaged) they even think my mcat score is further evidence of trolling because the idea of a former survival sw getting a 519 without studying seems laughable to them even when i attribute my performance to tutoring wealthy premeds for survival (and thus essentially got paid to study their material and teach it back to them). Why is that we must put up with having our stories of survival get silenced and ridiculed in such a manner, but we cannot likewise reciprocate such treatment to wealthy peers? this seems neither just nor equitable.

+5 points for dropping a high mcat score into the troll. This is good old school SDN trolling right there and reminds me of many troll posts of yore.

Well played!

 

[chayadoing]

+5 points for dropping a high mcat score into the troll. This is good old school SDN trolling right there and reminds me of many troll posts of yore.

Well played!

you’re just like all the out of touch wealthy folk i’ve ever been in contact with. and i brought up that exact issue to show why i do not get along with people like you and see no reason to. as far as i see it, people like you are the enemy of people like us, in medicine and in greater society.

(not to mention the mcat is literally a joke. none of the material is particularly challenging. but somehow the wealthy take it super seriously.)

 

[chayadoing]

What sort of “hostility” and “defensiveness” are being displayed by your wealthy colleagues and peers?

these apply to peers in a professional clinical / lab environment (not friends — a separate issue)

1) shutting down discussions of financial aid or medicaid at lunch in a work setting simply because “I know I’m not getting anything”

2) Complaints about working conditions that are actually far more cushy than those many other gigs my disadvantaged peers and I had to engage in to survive.

3) Disdain of public transit. Many consider themselves “above” public transit which immediately means I struggle to tolerate their presence.

4) Disdain of cooking or the ability to make one’s own meals; insisting on eating out (as a group) at places that aren’t affordable; becoming defensive when I kvetch about the habits of the wealthy to my poorer friends (on social media or within earshot).

5) They love to talk about their extravagant vacations while being unable to relate to adventures of (domestic) travel on a shoestring budget.

6) Some expect to be able to mock disadvantaged groups (trans people, the homeless, IV drug users) in a clinical or professional research setting and get away with it; they become defensive and hostile when I confront them (politely and professionally) or point out I used to be homeless. (I’m not openly out as trans but I do attempt to shame them indirectly when appropriate.)

etc. etc. not an exhaustive list

the majority of these interactions involved premed colleagues prior to my acceptance into medical school. like many of my peers on (private) social media I regularly kvetch about the habits of wealthy peers (as a broad group / no specific names). will I have to stop this once I start medical school?

 

[deleted1139416]

these apply to peers in a professional clinical / lab environment (not friends — a separate issue)

1) shutting down discussions of financial aid or medicaid at lunch in a work setting simply because “I know I’m not getting anything”

2) Complaints about working conditions that are actually far more cushy than those many other gigs my disadvantaged peers and I had to engage in to survive.

3) Disdain of public transit. Many consider themselves “above” public transit which immediately means I struggle to tolerate their presence.

4) Disdain of cooking or the ability to make one’s own meals; insisting on eating out (as a group) at places that aren’t affordable; becoming defensive when I kvetch about the habits of the wealthy to my poorer friends (on social media or within earshot).

5) They love to talk about their extravagant vacations while being unable to relate to adventures of (domestic) travel on a shoestring budget.

6) Some expect to be able to mock disadvantaged groups (trans people, the homeless, IV drug users) in a clinical or professional research setting and get away with it; they become defensive and hostile when I confront them (politely and professionally) or point out I used to be homeless. (I’m not openly out as trans but I do attempt to shame them indirectly when appropriate.)

etc. etc. not an exhaustive list

the majority of these interactions involved premed colleagues prior to my acceptance into medical school. on (private) social media I regularly kvetch about the habits of wealthy peers (as a broad group / no specific names). will I have to stop this once I start medical school?

It's funny because earlier you mentioned that your wealthy peers will have trouble relating to their low income patients. But, let me tell you that you WILL have patients with all types of backgrounds and beliefs that you dislike or don't agree with (racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, wealthy, etc). Communicating with these patients is an art and understanding the fine line of how to stand up for yourself without getting into legal trouble. Firing them may not always be an option, especially during residency and/or fellowship. There will be times when you will just have to bite the bullet. This happens to all of us - I can't tell you how many patients in undergrad called me a terrorist because I am Arab.

 

[chayadoing]

It's funny because earlier you mentioned that your wealthy peers will have trouble relating to their low income patients. But, let me tell you that you WILL have patients with all types of backgrounds and beliefs that you dislike or don't agree with (racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, wealthy, etc). Communicating with these patients is an art and understanding the fine line of how to stand up for yourself without getting into legal trouble. Firing them may not always be an option, especially during residency and/or fellowship. There will be times when you will just have to bite the bullet. This happens to all of us - I can't tell you how many patients in undergrad called me a terrorist because I am Arab.

i’ve already had neo-nazis and white supremacists for patients (and I’m Jewish Asian American) and been called a gook countless times by korean war vets (often suffering from dementia). but i would not tolerate a nazi for a colleague. should anyone?

anyway, this is besides the point. what i’m asking is why wealthy peers 1) take it so personally when my friends and I gripe about the wealthy in general, given that it’s a common social activity of the poor 2) become defensive when I suggest the cushy, healthy, convenient lives they loudly complain about don’t actually seem that difficult 3) won’t allow poorer peers to hold the floor regarding their own struggles.

And I am specifically excluding wealthier peers who have been through other types of actual adversity (it is very easy for us to empathize with each other). I am specifically talking about the type of wealthy colleague who attempts to shut down the discussion the moment certain aspects of socioeconomic struggle (and concomitant struggle for self-empowerment) relevantly come up in conversation.

 

[jambro]

i’ve already had neo-nazis and white supremacists for patients (and I’m Jewish Asian American) and been called a gook countless times by korean war vets (often suffering from dementia). but i would not tolerate a nazi for a colleague. should anyone?

anyway, this is besides the point. what i’m asking is why wealthy peers 1) take it so personally when my friends and I gripe about the wealthy in general, given that it’s a common social activity of the poor 2) become defensive when I suggest the cushy, healthy, convenient lives they loudly complain about don’t actually seem that difficult 3) won’t allow poorer peers to hold the floor regarding their own struggles.

And I am specifically excluding wealthier peers who have been through other types of actual adversity (it is very easy for us to empathize with each other). I am specifically talking about the type of wealthy colleague who attempts to shut down the discussion the moment certain aspects of socioeconomic struggle (and concomitant struggle for self-empowerment) relevantly come up in conversation

would you take it personally if your wealthy friends griped about the poor in general? Given its a common social activity of the wealthy of course

 

[deleted1139416]

1) take it so personally when my friends and I gripe about the wealthy in general, given that it’s a common social activity of the poor 2) become defensive when I suggest the cushy, healthy, convenient lives they loudly complain about don’t actually seem that difficult 3) won’t allow poorer peers to hold the floor regarding their own struggles.

Aren't you basically just doing the reverse to them as well?

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Maybe it’s just the people you’re hanging out with then.

I went to an Ivy League school (ie tons of super wealthy people) on a full need based scholarship and never heard anything like this.

 

[RangerBob]

i’ve already had neo-nazis and white supremacists for patients (and I’m Jewish Asian American) and been called a gook countless times by korean war vets (often suffering from dementia). but i would not tolerate a nazi for a colleague. should anyone?

anyway, this is besides the point. what i’m asking is why wealthy peers 1) take it so personally when my friends and I gripe about the wealthy in general, given that it’s a common social activity of the poor 2) become defensive when I suggest the cushy, healthy, convenient lives they loudly complain about don’t actually seem that difficult 3) won’t allow poorer peers to hold the floor regarding their own struggles.

And I am specifically excluding wealthier peers who have been through other types of actual adversity (it is very easy for us to empathize with each other). I am specifically talking about the type of wealthy colleague who attempts to shut down the discussion the moment certain aspects of socioeconomic struggle (and concomitant struggle for self-empowerment) relevantly come up in conversation.

Most people take things personally when others complain about their general "group," whether it be their race, sex, religion, caste, etc. And many humans get defensive when others suggest (and assume) that they've had a cushy/easy life.

This is why almost all faith traditions teach us not to judge, and to put ourselves in others shoes. Those living seemingly sheltered/cushy lives may possibly have the "harder" life in the cosmic balance of things. Or maybe they truly had it easy. Ultimately we're all here in the human experience together, so why be hard on one another?

 

[operaman]

Maybe it’s just the people you’re hanging out with then.

I went to an Ivy League school (ie tons of super wealthy people) on a full need based scholarship and never heard anything like this.

Well if “hostility” is simply people complaining about their seemingly cushy jobs, disliking public transit, and preferring to dine out rather than cook at home, maybe you were deeply oppressed and traumatized in school without even realizing it.

I still think OP is mounting an epic slow burn troll. No way anyone is this far off the deep end.

 

[ACSurgeon]

we made these jokes in the shelter or in foster care when we were treated like outcasts in society — so I don’t think it’s bullying when people of less socioeconomic status are complaining of those with more privilege. the power dynamics are entirely different. and as a member of the working class i’ve been able to kvetch about the habits of wealthy in many different types of work settings to my working class colleagues. am I expected to suppress my working class identity in medical school in front of my peers?

The only thing you have to suppress is being rude about what they have or their background. You can talk about yourself in neutral terms. Don’t expect your peers to be impressed by your struggles the way ADCOMs are. Even students that come from wealth are now young adults trying to make something for themselves. Don’t compare your journey to theirs or expect them to feel like they’ve accomplished less. And this is coming from someone who didn’t have much financial privilege growing up and expect to inherit nothing from my family and instead have to help fund their retirement. The extent of feeling like i didn’t fit in was sometimes not having a sense of what an appropriate dress code for a certain function was. Otherwise, I earned my place at the table at least as much as the next person, so wasn’t going to feel inferior. At some point you’ll be a grown up doctor and especially if you leave academia, you’ll realize that no one cares where you came from. As long as you’re doing a good job you’ll fit in. You’ll also be in the top 5-10% of American households so won’t have a lack of financial privilege or anything to feel inferior about.

 

[ACSurgeon]

but seriously tho — it’s always the super-privileged who seem incredulous

for exemple, when i was homeless, circumstances were extremely unstable and dire. Three of my shelter friends (and I) fell under the influence of a pimp simply because we had very few alternatives for surviving. needless to say, our experiences following this misinformed decision were extremely horrific and exploitative and one of my friends died of an overdose following the subsequent long ordeal. I actually wrote about this experience (with many aspects heavily redacted) for my applications.

there are some people on here so wealthy and/or privileged they literally think i’m trolling whenever I have to tell parts of my story of survival for context. (e.g. being disadvantaged) they even think my mcat score is further evidence of trolling because the idea of a former survival sw getting a 519 without studying seems laughable to them even when i attribute my performance to tutoring wealthy premeds for survival (and thus essentially got paid to study their material and teach it back to them). Why is that we must put up with having our stories of survival get silenced and ridiculed in such a manner, but we cannot likewise reciprocate such treatment to wealthy peers? this seems neither just nor equitable.

If you’re posting to vent, nothing we say is will matter to you because you’d be coming here with your mind already made up, and feel that you already have the facts and we are all just clueless.

If you actually want insight you can develop better social and professional relationships, then read what others are saying and look for some benefit instead of reasons to reject it.

- you describe a life that is several standard deviations away from “average”. So, I bet any student who grew up even in a poor but stable household would still have a hard time relating to your experiences of homelessness and being under the influence of a pimp. The vast majority of med students will have very little in common with that background. Doesn’t mean they’ll judge or be nasty, but maybe you perceive that if they aren’t super impressed and empathetic?

- you’re joining a profession where everyone will eventually be upper middle class. You will either adapt to living amongst upper middle class folks, or find peers of similar background (will difficult to find many of the extreme experiences you describe). Alternatively you can continue to feel like you fit in and just do your job at work and enjoy your social groups outside of work and accept that most of your friends will be non-medical people.

- a lot of your grievances about the wealthy are your grievances. Also, the majority of your “wealthy” classmates aren’t that wealthy. Sure they might be upper middle class. You might think they had unlimited resources. They might finish school debt free. That hardly makes them of the super rich that are running the country or economy and causing “oppression” to others. They might have two hard working parents who bust their backs to give their kids a few nice vacations and debt-free education. Hopefully one day you’ll be a “rich doctor” and you’ll realize just how not rich that is, lol.

 

[candbgirl]

Where are you meeting these people? Where are you having these offensive and hurtful discussions? Is it your fault that you have had so many hard and difficult struggles growing up? Of course not. Just as it’s not the wealthy friends fault they grew up privileged. ( I bet life wasn’t as perfect as you think.) I’m not sure why you started this thread . Maybe you are a troll or maybe you are reaching out for help. As a doctor you will meet and take care of in the most personal ways people very unlike you. What are you going to do when a very rich person comes in for help. Refuse service because they don’t get where you came from. Or what if that rich patient reuses to let you touch them? Will you tell that person you don’t know my struggles?
You have a wonderful opportunity waiting for you. I hope you can figure out how to get rid of your defenses. You’ve been accepted to med school and not many people rich or poor have been. So celebrate what you have in common .

 

[mvenus929]

First world problems are a thing. I can complain about how hot or tired I am and still recognize that I am much more fortunate than others. Residency sucked, but I also recognize that surgeons had it far worse than I did. I also would not want to be reminded every time I'm hanging out with my friends that one of them was significantly worse off than me growing up. I had to face my own socioeconomic challenges growing up and I don't remind people about it constantly either--and only bring it up when its pertinent to the conversation. If you think it's pertinent to every conversation, then maybe you need counseling to process your past trauma.

If you want to complain about other socioeconomic groups, fine. But don't be surprised when people get annoyed/offended when you do so.

 

[deleted1139416]

I just wanna mention one last thing OP. Trying to make others feel bad because of your background will, at best, get you pity. But achieving success in the medial field and inspiring others with your story will get you respect. Do you want pity or respect?

 

[MDMechEngr]

My boyfriend is trans, working class and an immigrant of color, just like me. We have more in common IMO than I will ever have with the type of privileged wealthy students I have had to tutor over the years to pay my rent.

My friends became my family and helped me survive when my own parents were abusive, dysfunctional and unreliable. To me, I will always have more in common with my chosen family then I will have with the type of wealthy student who will shut down discussion at lunch (at a volunteer gig) about financial aid because they can’t trade.

I have housed friends when they lost their job and apartment during the pandemic or got evicted. Likewise, my poor friends have turned up for me at critical moments in my life when my wealthy friends from college never showed up.

Also as a physician I understand I will be out earning many of my peers but I intend to use my extra income to build community institutions. I am not in medicine for the money. I have a working class identity and care deeply about social justice in my communities and I don’t understand why I am expected to discard my identity.

You do not need to discard your identity. You can blend in with your social evironment and still maintain your beliefs. BE LIKE WATER.

 

[deleted1139416]

none of the material is particularly challenging

You get offended when someone talks about their family vacations yet you don't see how bragging about how easy it is to get a 519 on the MCAT would be offensive to other people? I honestly think your problem is just a lack of self awareness.

 

[mrbreakfast]

A lot to unpack here, but just to add to what everyone else has said:

You have repeatedly lamented that people of a different socioeconomic group don't like it when you disparage that group, yet simultaneously find it intolerable when people of a different socioeconomic group say anything you find remotely offensive. You also complain when people of a different socioeconomic group talk about things you can't relate to, but expect them to tolerate you talking about things they can't relate to.

1) shutting down discussions of financial aid or medicaid at lunch in a work setting simply because “I know I’m not getting anything”

2) Complaints about working conditions that are actually far more cushy than those many other gigs my disadvantaged peers and I had to engage in to survive.

3) Disdain of public transit. Many consider themselves “above” public transit which immediately means I struggle to tolerate their presence.

4) Disdain of cooking or the ability to make one’s own meals; insisting on eating out (as a group) at places that aren’t affordable; becoming defensive when I kvetch about the habits of the wealthy to my poorer friends (on social media or within earshot).

5) They love to talk about their extravagant vacations while being unable to relate to adventures of (domestic) travel on a shoestring budget.

So are you unable to hold a conversation with people if they aren't talking about something you find interesting or relatable? Because that's like a basic tenant of friendship (professional or personal). People are accusing you of trolling because you seem to be painting yourself as someone who's never been in a social situation with people dissimilar to yourself. I mean, imagine someone who struggled throughout all of school and studied twice as long as everyone else to barely pass hearing you say "the MCAT is a joke, I didn't study and I don't know why people study for it." That is so much worse than any example you gave. Perhaps you can see how this might come across as tone-deaf and as thinking only your own personal struggles are valid.

You don't have to discard your identity. But you shouldn't dismiss people simply because they aren't just like you. You'll miss out on most of life. And if you can't do that, just don't be a jerk.

 

[operaman]

The dumb fact is that nobody cares about your past struggles or how many oppressed groups you belong to. Despite what you see on Twitter, there is no “winning” when you play intersectional bingo and the only person who cares that much about your identity is, well, you.

There is a common misconception among younger people today that your group identities and prior struggles are more meaningful that your present words and deeds. That simply isn’t true in the real offline world. Your peers will disagree with you and they may well be right even though they grew up affluent. Their privilege doesn’t render their opinions null and void just as your struggles and “lived experience” doesn’t make yours right, and no amount of online whining can make it so.

On the 0.01% chance this isn’t a troll- your experience can absolutely add value to your class and your education. You can offer perspective and challenge assumptions that need to be challenged. But people are going to disagree with you and they’re going to push back because that’s how actual progress works. Your ideas and actions must now stand on their own merit such that you don’t even need to reference your prior ills to give them credence. The moment you whip out your intersectional bingo card to bolster an argument, you’ve already lost.

 

[deleted1139416]

The dumb fact is that nobody cares about your past struggles or how many oppressed groups you belong to. Despite what you see on Twitter, there is no “winning” when you play intersectional bingo and the only person who cares that much about your identity is, well, you.

There is a common misconception among younger people today that your group identities and prior struggles are more meaningful that your present words and deeds. That simply isn’t true in the real offline world. Your peers will disagree with you and they may well be right even though they grew up affluent. Their privilege doesn’t render their opinions null and void just as your struggles and “lived experience” doesn’t make yours right, and no amount of online whining can make it so.

On the 0.01% chance this isn’t a troll- your experience can absolutely add value to your class and your education. You can offer perspective and challenge assumptions that need to be challenged. But people are going to disagree with you and they’re going to push back because that’s how actual progress works. Your ideas and actions must now stand on their own merit such that you don’t even need to reference your prior ills to give them credence. The moment you whip out your intersectional bingo card to bolster an argument, you’ve already lost.

100% this. The whole "oppression olympics" is just an online circle-jerk game without a prize.

 

[_med21_e]

these apply to peers in a professional clinical / lab environment (not friends — a separate issue)

1) shutting down discussions of financial aid or medicaid at lunch in a work setting simply because “I know I’m not getting anything”

2) Complaints about working conditions that are actually far more cushy than those many other gigs my disadvantaged peers and I had to engage in to survive.

3) Disdain of public transit. Many consider themselves “above” public transit which immediately means I struggle to tolerate their presence.

4) Disdain of cooking or the ability to make one’s own meals; insisting on eating out (as a group) at places that aren’t affordable; becoming defensive when I kvetch about the habits of the wealthy to my poorer friends (on social media or within earshot).

5) They love to talk about their extravagant vacations while being unable to relate to adventures of (domestic) travel on a shoestring budget.

6) Some expect to be able to mock disadvantaged groups (trans people, the homeless, IV drug users) in a clinical or professional research setting and get away with it; they become defensive and hostile when I confront them (politely and professionally) or point out I used to be homeless. (I’m not openly out as trans but I do attempt to shame them indirectly when appropriate.)

etc. etc. not an exhaustive list

the majority of these interactions involved premed colleagues prior to my acceptance into medical school. like many of my peers on (private) social media I regularly kvetch about the habits of wealthy peers (as a broad group / no specific names). will I have to stop this once I start medical school?

1) this is not a socioeconomic hostility situation, how do you want people to engage in convos like this if they have no knowledge of it? why are we even discussing financial aid. literally every med student I know is getting loans in med school. a good majority of people were eligible for pell grants in college and that's how they were able to attend
2) ehh lots of people work retail/food service/etc
3) I rode the bus 6 hours daily my first year to commute to college because I lived an hour away and had no car. it was very humbling. now that I have a car, I will kill myself if I ever had to take public transit without reason ever again (no, nyc doesn't count)
4) ??? okay this is just weird LOLL this is not a socioeconomic problem, just pure LAZINESS
5) again, I know so many med students and EVEN COLLEGE STUDENTS taking vacations using loan money
6) ??? this is absolutely horrible, so maybe consider getting new friends, and this is def a personality issue, not a wealth issue.

 

[_med21_e]

It's funny because earlier you mentioned that your wealthy peers will have trouble relating to their low income patients. But, let me tell you that you WILL have patients with all types of backgrounds and beliefs that you dislike or don't agree with (racist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, wealthy, etc). Communicating with these patients is an art and understanding the fine line of how to stand up for yourself without getting into legal trouble. Firing them may not always be an option, especially during residency and/or fellowship. There will be times when you will just have to bite the bullet. This happens to all of us - I can't tell you how many patients in undergrad called me a terrorist because I am Arab.

I relate to this. Esp because I wear a hijab myself, so I am visibly Middle Eastern and Muslim. Terrorist, sand ya know, "Are you gonna bomb me" jokes, "How dare you speak to me like this? if you were back in your country, you would have been killed for speaking to me when you're a woman" etc etc etc. The amount of racism and xenophobia I got from patients, co-workers (ESPECIALLY co-workers), peers, classmates, etc.

OP, your struggles are valid. Your identity is valid. I understand why you are angry, esp with antisemitism being at its highest, transphobia, the list goes on. I can't imagine what you have been through. However, I think it's time to let go of certain people (esp if they are mocking trans people, IV users, etc and you aren't even out yet) and possibly start some therapy to help you cope. It seems like your past trauma is not letting you see the good in this world. I promise there are A LOT of good people out there, wealthy or not. Despite the racism and crap I faced, the amount of love and tolerance I received was 10x more. You can't be letting every single conversation get to you or bother you, or it's going to drive you insane. Please consider therapy and I hope one day you learn to heal from this.

 

[LunaOri]

we made these jokes in the shelter or in foster care when we were treated like outcasts in society — so I don’t think it’s bullying when people of less socioeconomic status are complaining of those with more privilege. the power dynamics are entirely different. and as a member of the working class i’ve been able to kvetch about the habits of wealthy in many different types of work settings to my working class colleagues. am I expected to suppress my working class identity in medical school in front of my peers?

Being hostile to people because they belong to a particular group is not acceptable.

 

[ortnakas]

I think in this case, a few things are true:
1) it is unacceptable for others to belittle you for your socioeconomic status (or race, or gender, for that matter)
2) you’re interpreting interactions with all members of groups “other” than you as intended slights. The majority are probably not
3) it’s possible for you to be both underprivileged (deserving of compassion) and insufferable in conversation/a troll on the internet, at the same time

 

[chayadoing]

You get offended when someone talks about their family vacations yet you don't see how bragging about how easy it is to get a 519 on the MCAT would be offensive to other people? I honestly think your problem is just a lack of self awareness.

so I kind of low key regret making this thread because it was originally to vent about an ongoing real life situation. The advice here has been enlightening, nevertheless. I suppose the takeaway is that for much of my life I’ve been yes bitter and resentful of wealthy peers because I’ve been locked out of educational / intellectual opportunities since childhood for being too poor and/or having a dysfunctional home.

i would like to ask a clarification for one thing:
i also actually truly truly do not understand why the wealthy feel so defensive / weird about the MCAT. I know there’s a whole hardcore test prep culture around it. but i see no reason to treat that test prep culture seriously (as a student and as a tutor) when it is driven by money and caters to the wealthy.

for me getting a 519 was not difficult. the MCAT was a joke to me. that’s the simple truth.

and if obtained this score with so few resources at my disposal — on medicaid, no parental support, putting myself through school while working full time, while only recently stably-housed, then surely wealthy students who have every advantage multiplied tenfold compared to me who are taking the MCAT should be getting 52x unless they were incompetent. I am worthless; lowest of the low; spit out by society. Until recently I literally thought I was going to die as a survival s__ worker. I don’t understand. 99% of wealthy people see themselves as better than people like me. Why does society think that’s okay but somehow it’s a heinous crime to mock the sanctity of some basic science book knowledge test ?

and i’ve been therapy for ptsd for years through from a famous teaching hospital program though the pandemic disrupted this a lot. and that’s the other thing: my old resident psychiatrist/therapist was really cool and would empathize with me and even would laugh with me (almost in implied solidarity) when I would vent about dealing with wealthy colleagues and students, almost like he dealt with similar issues in his own professional life (but professionally couldn’t tell me ofc). He was even promoted to chief resident. But then he graduated. The subsequent psych resident assigned to me uncomfortably winces / doesn’t acknowledge whenever I vent about having to deal with spoiled, wealthy premeds (and their parents) as my students. and you have to understand, entitled wealthy premeds are exhausting to teach (compared to much less entitled, much more grateful, much more refreshingly spongelike poorer students I teach for free.) Who else am I supposed to vent to now?

 

[Lawpy]

 

[Goro]

so I kind of low key regret making this thread because it was originally to vent about an ongoing real life situation. The advice here has been enlightening, nevertheless. I suppose the takeaway is that for much of my life I’ve been yes bitter and resentful of wealthy peers because I’ve been locked out of educational / intellectual opportunities since childhood for being too poor and/or having a dysfunctional home.

i would like to ask a clarification for one thing:
i also actually truly truly do not understand why the wealthy feel so defensive / weird about the MCAT. I know there’s a whole hardcore test prep culture around it. but i see no reason to treat that test prep culture seriously (as a student and as a tutor) when it is driven by money and caters to the wealthy.

for me getting a 519 was not difficult. the MCAT was a joke to me. that’s the simple truth.

and if obtained this score with so few resources at my disposal — on medicaid, no parental support, putting myself through school while working full time, while only recently stably-housed, then surely wealthy students who have every advantage multiplied tenfold compared to me who are taking the MCAT should be getting 52x unless they were incompetent. I am worthless; lowest of the low; spit out by society. Until recently I literally thought I was going to die as a survival s__ worker. I don’t understand. 99% of wealthy people see themselves as better than people like me. Why does society think that’s okay but somehow it’s a heinous crime to mock the sanctity of some basic science book knowledge test ?

and i’ve been therapy for ptsd for years through from a famous teaching hospital program though the pandemic disrupted this a lot. and that’s the other thing: my old resident psychiatrist/therapist was really cool and would empathize with me and even would laugh with me (almost in implied solidarity) when I would vent about dealing with wealthy colleagues and students, almost like he dealt with similar issues in his own professional life (but professionally couldn’t tell me ofc). He was even promoted to chief resident. But then he graduated. The subsequent psych resident assigned to me uncomfortably winces / doesn’t acknowledge whenever I vent about having to deal with spoiled, wealthy premeds (and their parents) as my students. and you have to understand, entitled wealthy premeds are exhausting to teach (compared to much less entitled, much more grateful, much more refreshingly spongelike poorer students I teach for free.) Who else am I supposed to vent to now?

Jeeze, the hate, jealousy and resentment is just dripping off of you.

Get into therapy, stat. This is NOT giving medical advice.

 

[deleted1139416]

so I kind of low key regret making this thread because it was originally to vent about an ongoing real life situation. The advice here has been enlightening, nevertheless. I suppose the takeaway is that for much of my life I’ve been yes bitter and resentful of wealthy peers because I’ve been locked out of educational / intellectual opportunities since childhood for being too poor and/or having a dysfunctional home.

i would like to ask a clarification for one thing:
i also actually truly truly do not understand why the wealthy feel so defensive / weird about the MCAT. I know there’s a whole hardcore test prep culture around it. but i see no reason to treat that test prep culture seriously (as a student and as a tutor) when it is driven by money and caters to the wealthy.

for me getting a 519 was not difficult. the MCAT was a joke to me. that’s the simple truth.

and if obtained this score with so few resources at my disposal — on medicaid, no parental support, putting myself through school while working full time, while only recently stably-housed, then surely wealthy students who have every advantage multiplied tenfold compared to me who are taking the MCAT should be getting 52x unless they were incompetent. I am worthless; lowest of the low; spit out by society. Until recently I literally thought I was going to die as a survival s__ worker. I don’t understand. 99% of wealthy people see themselves as better than people like me. Why does society think that’s okay but somehow it’s a heinous crime to mock the sanctity of some basic science book knowledge test ?

and i’ve been therapy for ptsd for years through from a famous teaching hospital program though the pandemic disrupted this a lot. and that’s the other thing: my old resident psychiatrist/therapist was really cool and would empathize with me and even would laugh with me (almost in implied solidarity) when I would vent about dealing with wealthy colleagues and students, almost like he dealt with similar issues in his own professional life (but professionally couldn’t tell me ofc). He was even promoted to chief resident. But then he graduated. The subsequent psych resident assigned to me uncomfortably winces / doesn’t acknowledge whenever I vent about having to deal with spoiled, wealthy premeds (and their parents) as my students. and you have to understand, entitled wealthy premeds are exhausting to teach (compared to much less entitled, much more grateful, much more refreshingly spongelike poorer students I teach for free.) Who else am I supposed to vent to now?

You have to be a troll…. no way does someone got through all of the stuff you claim to go through and turn out so unpleasant and immature….

 

[RangerBob]

so I kind of low key regret making this thread because it was originally to vent about an ongoing real life situation. The advice here has been enlightening, nevertheless. I suppose the takeaway is that for much of my life I’ve been yes bitter and resentful of wealthy peers because I’ve been locked out of educational / intellectual opportunities since childhood for being too poor and/or having a dysfunctional home.

i would like to ask a clarification for one thing:
i also actually truly truly do not understand why the wealthy feel so defensive / weird about the MCAT. I know there’s a whole hardcore test prep culture around it. but i see no reason to treat that test prep culture seriously (as a student and as a tutor) when it is driven by money and caters to the wealthy.

for me getting a 519 was not difficult. the MCAT was a joke to me. that’s the simple truth.

and if obtained this score with so few resources at my disposal — on medicaid, no parental support, putting myself through school while working full time, while only recently stably-housed, then surely wealthy students who have every advantage multiplied tenfold compared to me who are taking the MCAT should be getting 52x unless they were incompetent. I am worthless; lowest of the low; spit out by society. Until recently I literally thought I was going to die as a survival s__ worker. I don’t understand. 99% of wealthy people see themselves as better than people like me. Why does society think that’s okay but somehow it’s a heinous crime to mock the sanctity of some basic science book knowledge test ?

and i’ve been therapy for ptsd for years through from a famous teaching hospital program though the pandemic disrupted this a lot. and that’s the other thing: my old resident psychiatrist/therapist was really cool and would empathize with me and even would laugh with me (almost in implied solidarity) when I would vent about dealing with wealthy colleagues and students, almost like he dealt with similar issues in his own professional life (but professionally couldn’t tell me ofc). He was even promoted to chief resident. But then he graduated. The subsequent psych resident assigned to me uncomfortably winces / doesn’t acknowledge whenever I vent about having to deal with spoiled, wealthy premeds (and their parents) as my students. and you have to understand, entitled wealthy premeds are exhausting to teach (compared to much less entitled, much more grateful, much more refreshingly spongelike poorer students I teach for free.) Who else am I supposed to vent to now?

You can vent with whoever you like, but watch the judgements, and be careful who you vent with, as clearly many are judging you here based on your comments. Just because someone is poor it doesn't make them noble and a sponge, and just because someone is wealthy it doesn't make them evil/a jerk who deserves to be made fun of. Poor and wealthy, struggling and spoiled people all have legitimate wants/desires/wishes.

It's not clear why you don't understand your MCAT comments upsetting people. It upsets you when you hear about the wealthy talk about their money/ease with life, does it not? Stuff you struggled with? So wouldn't it upset others to hear what they worked so hard for is basically a joke for you? Like how making rent is a joke for them?

It's like me complaining to my nurses about the size of my mortgage. I live in Coastal CA--many of them can't even afford a home here. Even fewer can afford the city I'm in. And many grew up here, unlike me. So for me to complain about something like that, or about my Tesla (I don't have a Tesla) comes across as insensitive. Similar for test scores. I did great on the MCAT too, and I told my mom and dad about it, filled out my AMCAS, and then literally there was no talk about the MCAT ever again, because the only people that cared about it were my parents, other pre-meds, and the computer that does the pre-screening for the admissions committee.

Patients don't care if their doctor got a 45 (I'm older!) on the MCAT, a 260+ on the USMLE, nor do most really care if you went to Harvard for med school/residency. They care if they can trust you, if they're safe from being judged, and if they can put their lives/their loved one's lives in your hands. Scores and pedigrees don't tell a patient anything about any of that, but just a few minutes of observation/listening generally tells the patient what they need and want to know.

 

[DOVinciRobot]

For a second I thought I accidentally got onto Twitter

 

[deleted1139416]

I don't have a Tesla

Thank you for your service to humankind.