MS2 AMA - ask us questions

[487806]

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I think someone mentioned this before, but do you guys start rotations in July?

 

[NickNaylor]

I think someone mentioned this before, but do you guys start rotations in July?

June 24th.

 

[487806]

June 24th.

Wow... So you guys have to take step 1 a month before rotations start?

 

[NickNaylor]

Wow... So you guys have to take step 1 a month before rotations start?

Yup. We have a month of a "research block" in between, but depending on your project that could be anything from real work to basically a vacation.

 

[487806]

Yup. We have a month of a "research block" in between, but depending on your project that could be anything from real work to basically a vacation.

Nice. Do all schools offer a research year?

 

[The Beyonder]

1) I would say use Firecracker from the get-go. I wish I had known about it and used it when I first started. Based on what I've seen and heard, it absolutely seems like the way to go. Look into it and talk to people that have used this method. It seems like a great way to not only make your studying super efficient but also crush the boards. As far as actual advice, soak in unranked P/F, have fun, and have a life. Don't worry about school too much unless doing that will make you worry.

2) At the EARLIEST I would say the second half of MS2. Before that you really shouldn't do anything (unless you're using FC/GT) because it's just wasted time. I was constantly worried about this because I knew absolutely zero from MS1. Really, I mean nothing. We had seven weeks of dedicated time to study (including a week of "spring break"), and that was MORE than enough time to prepare yourself. Don't do ANY step-specific studying in MS1 or the first half of MS2. If you're gunna gun (which isn't a bad thing IMO), I'd start working on it at some point halfway through MS2, unless, again, you're using a spaced-repetition technique like FC or GT.

3) No, not really. I suppose I did in the sense that I really only learned the stuff in FA/board review books well and memorized only enough of the other material to pass exams. But no, I didn't do any step-specific studying during MS1.

4) I don't know if you can. Having now been through the gauntlet of step 1, I think my greatest difficulty was actually that I never knew how to study smart and effectively. Sure, I did well during undergrad, but most of the time it wasn't that "hard" per se; if you put in your time, most of the time you could do well. Not so much for med school - it requires time AND effective/"smart" studying. If you learned how to do this in undergrad, then I don't think you have anything to worry about. A couple of classmates (coincidentally enough, people that went to U of C for undergrad) say that undergrad was actually more difficult than med school for them. The point is that if you know how to study and you know how to work hard, you'll do fine. Just expect the worse and you'll be happy.

5) Participate in the thread, give students candid and honest perspectives of your experiences as a students, and try and win them over with kindness and helpfulness. Think about the things you wish you knew when you were an applicant or trying to choose a school and provide that information. I think that's probably the most valuable info you can provide.

6) The allo and specialty boards are EXTREMELY informative. They're really not even comparable to pre-allo (in a good way). Much less trolling, much more useful, substantive advice, and people are generally more intelligent and have more enjoyable discussions. Outside of pre-allo, I like seeing what other peoples' experiences as med students are (in the allo forum) and I like exploring other careers (specialty-specific forums). As with pre-allo all this information must be taken with a grain of salt, but I think SDN actually gets MORE valuable as you get through the process rather than less. There's overall much less activity in those boards, but the quality:quantity ratio is substantially higher IMO.

Thanks. As always super helpful.

 

[NickNaylor]

Nice. Do all schools offer a research year?

No. Duke is the only school I know of that has a full year of research as part of the curriculum. Many schools include some kind of research requirement in the curriculum, but most don't.

 

[mimelim]

The only addendum I would make to NN's thoughts on Step 1 would be...

I started 'studying' for Step 1 my first semester in MS2, but it was very different studying than most people would think about doing. First, I knew that I was going to be short on time prior to Step 1, secondary to me leaving for my honeymoon in China the day after my exam. Second, I knew that there were areas of MS1 that I was weak in. I picked two of those areas, Micro and Pharm and set out with the goal of making those my strengths. I didn't 'study' them particularly hard, but I spaced out those topics over a couple months each. I didn't do questions, I just passively read a couple pages here and there. I am really glad that I did it. Those two areas became my strengths and really made my exam fly by fast. I could literally do each of the Micro/Pharm questions in 10-15 seconds when I started doing U World. I feel like I actually learned something from doing that and helped me make my dedicated study time prior to Step 1 a lot more efficient and effective.

 

[mimelim]

No. Duke is the only school I know of that has a full year of research as part of the curriculum. Many schools include some kind of research requirement in the curriculum, but most don't.

Cleveland Clinic does as well. It is a required year. However, all 5 years of tuition are paid for by the school and you get a living stipend every year.

 

[487806]

No. Duke is the only school I know of that has a full year of research as part of the curriculum. Many schools include some kind of research requirement in the curriculum, but most don't.

Ok. Are you doing a dual degree?

 

[yjj8817]

1) Is med school life better than undergrad life in some ways? If yes, how? Couple med school students at my school told me that I should really enjoy life right now because you don't have that much free time when med school starts.

2) Do publications obtained during undergrad help at all when you get to med school?

3) What do you think about taking a year off before starting med school? Did a lot of people in your class do it?

 

[GrabSlamBoot]

Hey guys I was just curious about this FC/GT program. I didn't know if you or any of your friends used Anki instead as the spaced repetition program. And wether or not they liked it, or feel like it benefitted them with classes and board prep. I'm considering using one of these programs in medical school so I'm just trying to get some thoughts.

Congrats on being done with step 1, hope it went well!

 

[Ismet]

Nice. Do all schools offer a research year?

It's a research month, not a research year. We also work in research months in 3rd and 4th year here.

I don't know of any school that would forbid taking a research year. You just take a leave of absence from school, usually between 2nd and 3rd year, and join the class below your entering class for clerkships. It's not uncommon at the research-heavy schools.

 

[darkjedi]

Hope you crushed that Step 1 buddy

 

[Guero]

Resources - netters for anatomy, everything else i only used my school's syllabi that they gave us.. oh and goljan rapid review path is a good book
2. anatomy advice - REPETITION is better than anything, learn the relationships relative to other structures
3. hardest class = path
4. i would have liked to balance my life out better.. i didn't work out much 1st and 2nd year cause i was so stressed out about studying all day long.. 3rd yr and 4th yr i fixed that and i still did fine

Thanks!

1) Anatomy: Netter's (diagrams), Rohan's (photographs), and a dissector (whatever your school uses). Biochem: our biochem course was school-specific and silly, so I have nothing to really add. I didn't use a boards book for our course. Pharm: tough one. I used Lippincott's cards, which I found to be pretty nice. Ultimately though no matter what you use pharm is pretty much the equivalent of memorizing the phonebook: very boring, very dull, and depending upon your curriculum organization you have zero context for the information, which makes it even worse.

2) I started doing reasonably well in anatomy when I went back into the lab and basically did the dissection myself. A few days before the exam, I would literally walk through the dissector for the entire body area (e.g., lower limb, upper limb, thorax, etc.) and find all the structures and really try to remember as much as I could. This was very time-intensive - I went into the lab around 8-9pm and didn't leave until 1-2am - but it was well worth it IMO. I would say that whatever you do, just make good use of that time. If you're not cutting, walk around and look at other bodies and have people point stuff out to you. It's helpful for them as they get quizzed and it's helpful for you as you see the structures on a different body (perhaps with a slightly different look/arrangement). What you don't want to do is dick around in lab the entire time (what I did). You don't learn anything and you ultimately waste your own time. I should also add that if you have a practical portion (i.e., structures are actually pinned on bodies and you go around and identify them) to your exams, SPEND TIME IN LAB. Simply looking at Netter's and Rohen's likely won't prepare you as well for the practical as you think. I say that from experience.

3) Hardest course... depends on what you mean by hard. I'd say that anatomy was overall the least enjoyable, most time intense, and the most difficult, if only because I had to learn how to study while getting pounded with material. In terms of objective difficulty... I'd say our pathophys course was the most difficult. Lots of material that you've never seen before that integrates all of the different topics together. However I didn't find it a big pain in the ass because there was this sense of, "ahhh, this is why I came to med school." You learn things that are actually useful in a clinical context.

4) I'd use FC/GT. Other than that, though, no regrets. With the exception of the last few weeks, I really enjoyed the pre-clinical curriculum and how I handled things, and I don't think I'd change anything other than that one point.

Thanks, very informative as always. 😉

Eh, it was aight. Hard, but more or less what I expected. Now the waiting for the score begins...

How long is the wait for scores? Can you see them online like that MCAT? Or do you have to wait for a letter?

Ischioanal fossa + formaldehyde =

I can only imagine. ::shudder::

Often you have to take a 50/50 guess, even on things you know pretty well. It is frustrating.
You will study certain subjects really well and have 3 softball questions on it, and then you will have 40 questions on a subject you just kind of skimmed. Then you will talk to your friends and realize they had 40 questions on your strongest area. It makes you want to punch a wall.

That's exactly what I was expecting. Ugh. I wish I could fast forward my life. Oh well.

Cleveland Clinic does as well. It is a required year. However, all 5 years of tuition are paid for by the school and you get a living stipend every year.

I can't even imagine the competitiveness among the applicants vying for that program.

 

[NickNaylor]

How long is the wait for scores? Can you see them online like that MCAT? Or do you have to wait for a letter?

My understanding is that you get an email 3-4 weeks after your test date letting you know that your scores are available - kinda like the MCAT.

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[buccsmf1]

1) Is med school life better than undergrad life in some ways? If yes, how? Couple med school students at my school told me that I should really enjoy life right now because you don't have that much free time when med school starts.

Remember that the first two years of medical school are very different from the last 2. Pre-clinical years (the first two) are somewhat comparable to college.

I would definitely not consider med school life to be better than college. When I was in college, I was living in a big house with my 3 best friends, and studying significantly less. In med school I lived alone, and studied constantly.

2) Do publications obtained during undergrad help at all when you get to med school?

They won't help a ton, but if you are published, its definitely something I would put on my residency application.

3) What do you think about taking a year off before starting med school? Did a lot of people in your class do it?

I took a year off, as did a decent amount of other students at my school. But I only did because I didnt know I wanted to go to med school until my senior year. So I spent the year after graduation applying and attending interviews. Unless you have research or a masters program in mind, you'll get bored out of your mind quickly. It bothers me to think that if I hadnt taken a year off, Id be a 4th year about to graduate instead of a 3rd year about to start his 4th year. Dont take a year off unless you absolutely have to.

 

[yjj8817]

I took a year off, as did a decent amount of other students at my school. But I only did because I didnt know I wanted to go to med school until my senior year. So I spent the year after graduation applying and attending interviews. Unless you have research or a masters program in mind, you'll get bored out of your mind quickly. It bothers me to think that if I hadnt taken a year off, Id be a 4th year about to graduate instead of a 3rd year about to start his 4th year. Dont take a year off unless you absolutely have to.

A lot of people on this forum recommend it since it allows people to become more mature, relax, and enjoy life a little bit. You don't agree with them? I was thinking about 1 year NIH research internship.


Do you think I would end up hating myself when I see my friends going into med school before me?

 

[Barcu]

A lot of people on this forum recommend it since it allows people to become more mature, relax, and enjoy life a little bit. You don't agree with them? I was thinking about 1 year NIH research internship.


Do you think I would end up hating myself when I see my friends going into med school before me?

I took a year off, and I thought it was great. Worked for a bit, got some good clinical experience, did the 9-5 job thing. I think it helped me relax a bit, and I don't think it hurt me having to get used to school again.

You will hear significantly more people say they wish they had taken a year off rather than people saying they wish they went straight through. It's a personal choice of course, but I think the vast majority of people end up happy that they took a year off.

 

[Larry_David]

has your study/pump up music preference changed from MS1 to MS2?

 

[MusicJunkie]

NickNaylor, you said to be wise about choosing your mentor/research project. What should we look for in this regard when we are trying to get started in research?

 

[BABSstudent]

NickNaylor, you said to be wise about choosing your mentor/research project. What should we look for in this regard when we are trying to get started in research?

Yeah, should we pick to do research in something novel and that might not yield a publication (because I have a few ideas for new antibiotics which would take a lot of work and research/testing) or should we go with existing projects that will "guarantee" a publication.

 

[notbobtrustme]

Yeah, should we pick to do research in something novel and that might not yield a publication (because I have a few ideas for new antibiotics which would take a lot of work and research/testing) or should we go with existing projects that will "guarantee" a publication.

in most cases, the pub is a better bet for residency applications.

 

[sinombre]

NickNaylor, you said to be wise about choosing your mentor/research project. What should we look for in this regard when we are trying to get started in research?

I'll chime in because I don't think this is especially relevant to being an MS2, and I've worked in both productive and nonproductive labs.

Make sure the PI (and anyone else you work with in the lab, or potentially outside of the lab if it's clinical research) is actually publishing. You want to work with people who actually get things done. Putting a lot of time into projects and ending up with nothing to put on a CV is frustrating to say the least.

 

[sinombre]

Maybe not the best place to ask this, but...

Is your first rotation in a specialty you don't think you'll specialize in (so that you can feel out how they work/get your feet wet before doing a rotation in a specialty you're more interested in)? Does the order of rotations matter at all?

 

[NickNaylor]

I'll chime in because I don't think this is especially relevant to being an MS2, and I've worked in both productive and nonproductive labs.

Make sure the PI (and anyone else you work with in the lab, or potentially outside of the lab if it's clinical research) is actually publishing. You want to work with people who actually get things done. Putting a lot of time into projects and ending up with nothing to put on a CV is frustrating to say the least.

Basically this when it comes to research.

I picked a project that was interesting and a PI that was a nice guy. Unbeknownst to me the lab is basically the PI and two techs (ie, no full time students), so you might guess that the productivity was relatively low compared to more established labs. I also worked on a project that was a relatively new direction for the PI; it was related to his main work, but I basically had to troubleshoot assays, figure out how to actually do stuff, etc.. Had I realized this was going to be experience, I probably would've gone with a different project. What I actually ended up doing and what I expected to be doing didn't quite align, and while I thought the work itself was intellectually interesting, I would've picked a project that got me a pub/poster/something that I can point to as a product of my time any day of the week.

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[NickNaylor]

Maybe not the best place to ask this, but...

Is your first rotation in a specialty you don't think you'll specialize in (so that you can feel out how they work/get your feet wet before doing a rotation in a specialty you're more interested in)? Does the order of rotations matter at all?

It is basically irrelevant, but because this is probably one of the few things about MS3 med students have control over, they would probably like to think it matters. I'd say there are probably advantages to, say, rotating early in your specialty rather than late, but I don't think that it's one of those things that will make or break you.

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[Barcu]

Maybe not the best place to ask this, but...

Is your first rotation in a specialty you don't think you'll specialize in (so that you can feel out how they work/get your feet wet before doing a rotation in a specialty you're more interested in)? Does the order of rotations matter at all?

The common wisdom is to not do your desired specialty first (you may be uncomfortable in the clinic) or last (may have to do with timing of away rotations, especially if you decide you hate the specialty).

In the end, it doesn't seem to matter much. Lots of people change, and plenty of people end up in the specialty that they did first or last.

We just had our rotation order come out. For weeks, we were told that it really doesn't matter by just about every older student. Of course, drama ensued once the order was released. Sometimes it's hard as a med student (especially in the pre-clinical years) to look much beyond the moment. But, things work out in the end.

 

[kavorca]

Having medicine first might help on other rotations. Most of every shelf is heavy on medicine.

 

[MusicJunkie]

Basically this when it comes to research.

I picked a project that was interesting and a PI that was a nice guy. Unbeknownst to me the lab is basically the PI and two techs (ie, no full time students), so you might guess that the productivity was relatively low compared to more established labs. I also worked on a project that was a relatively new direction for the PI; it was related to his main work, but I basically had to troubleshoot assays, figure out how to actually do stuff, etc.. Had I realized this was going to be experience, I probably would've gone with a different project. What I actually ended up doing and what I expected to be doing didn't quite align, and while I thought the work itself was intellectually interesting, I would've picked a project that got me a pub/poster/something that I can point to as a product of my time any day of the week.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717

I guess my issue is that I've never participated in research before, so I'm not sure how to gauge whether or not a project is capable of yielding a pub/poster/something.

 

[mvenus929]

I took a year off, as did a decent amount of other students at my school. But I only did because I didnt know I wanted to go to med school until my senior year. So I spent the year after graduation applying and attending interviews. Unless you have research or a masters program in mind, you'll get bored out of your mind quickly. It bothers me to think that if I hadnt taken a year off, Id be a 4th year about to graduate instead of a 3rd year about to start his 4th year. Dont take a year off unless you absolutely have to.

I disagree. I took two years off (and thus would be in residency now if I had gone straight through), partly because I had to, and I'm really glad I did. I can't imagine doing all this without a break between undergrad and med school. I also worked full time and hated my job in the months leading up to med school, so the drastic change in pace was really helpful and kept me motivated going through the first year.

Maybe not the best place to ask this, but...

Is your first rotation in a specialty you don't think you'll specialize in (so that you can feel out how they work/get your feet wet before doing a rotation in a specialty you're more interested in)? Does the order of rotations matter at all?

My class got to pick what we started with (the order of the rotations was set). I'm glad I had the opportunity to do so, because I liked being eased into third year. I finished on Surgery, but I had winter break immediately before it, so I got to recharge my batteries a little before diving back in.

The class below us didn't get to choose their rotations. So some people had a rougher start than they would've wanted, and others started on the rotations they were thinking about going into.

In the end, it probably doesn't matter. Most of your letters of recommendation are going to come from your fourth year electives anyway, and you can always get letters from people outside your field of interest if you did great at one rotation later in the year. Also, I recommend going into every rotation with an open mind, if only because something you learn in that rotation will be applicable to the rest of your life... whether its your own health, your family's health, or your future patients.

 

[obgyny]

Maybe not the best place to ask this, but...

Is your first rotation in a specialty you don't think you'll specialize in (so that you can feel out how they work/get your feet wet before doing a rotation in a specialty you're more interested in)? Does the order of rotations matter at all?

At my school, you don't get to pick your rotation schedule at all. The only thing you can do is switch your entire schedule with another student. So some people who had their dream specialty first switched with others.

 

[NickNaylor]

I guess my issue is that I've never participated in research before, so I'm not sure how to gauge whether or not a project is capable of yielding a pub/poster/something.

Yeah, it can be tough. A couple of things to look for:

1) Does the PI generally seem organized? Does it seem like he/she is really on top of getting work done?

2) Search his/her name in PubMed and see what comes up. How many pubs has he/she had in the last few months? In the last year?

3) How big is the lab? The bigger, the better when it comes to output (usually), though this can backfire in that you never actually see your PI because the lab is so big.

It's kind of a gut thing, but frankly it's mostly luck. You can do as much research and learning about a PI as you want, but at the end of the day it's hard to know for sure what you can expect.

 

[tiedyeddog]

It's kind of a gut thing, but frankly it's mostly luck. You can do as much research and learning about a PI as you want, but at the end of the day it's hard to know for sure what you can expect.

Agreed, there is a ton of luck involved. The best thing you can do is to work hard and don't get discouraged if the project has some unexpected bumps.

 

[Sophocles]

Hey, first thanks for continuing to invest your time to help us. I've read your other posts and video and I've appreciated all of your help.

When you mention FC and GT can you elaborate on this. Do you just do high-yield questions throughout the two years depending on the block that your in, or is there another strategy to this? How exactly can we utilize this and should we start to buy this stuff the first semester of our first year?

Thanks

 

[NickNaylor]

Hey, first thanks for continuing to invest your time to help us. I've read your other posts and video and I've appreciated all of your help.

When you mention FC and GT can you elaborate on this. Do you just do high-yield questions throughout the two years depending on the block that your in, or is there another strategy to this? How exactly can we utilize this and should we start to buy this stuff the first semester of our first year?

Thanks

You should go to the step 1 forum (Allopathic > USMLE and COMLEX > Step 1) and check out the GunnerTraining/Firecracker thread there. It's super long and filled with tons of opinions and suggestions by people that have actually used it (as opposed to me, who has only seen it and very briefly messed with it). They'll be able to give you much more helpful info.

 

[yamssuck]

Hey, thanks for doing this. I had a quick question about early research (during MS1 or in the summer between MS1/MS2). I've heard that if you are interested in a particularly competitive specialty then you should aim to have early research in said specialty. What happens if you decide later on that a diff specialty is for you (or your board scores don't make you competitive for the first), is the first research you did worthless or is there still value in having publications in a separate specialty?

For example, let's say you enter MS1 thinking you want to do ortho and do extensive ortho research over the first year/summer. Let's then say you do very well on boards but during third year you decide you want to do derm. Are you at a huge disadvantage since your early research was in a separate specialty slash do you have time to do research to make yourself a competitive candidate for matching your new specialty? I realize you just finished MS2, but if you have any input that'd be great. Thanks!

 

[Gauss44]

How challenging is a typical day of medical school? And why?

How challenging is a really bad day in medical school? And why?

(If there's a lot of work, can you give an example of "a lot" of work?)

Thank you.

 

[notbobtrustme]

How challenging is a typical day of medical school? And why?

Depends on what classes and what you strengths are. If you like memorizing or have had exposure before, then school is pretty easy. For me, biochem/cell biology was a cake walk while many others struggled. OTOH, neuroscience is kicking my ass while others are cruising through it.

How challenging is a really bad day in medical school? And why?

(If there's a lot of work, can you give an example of "a lot" of work?)

Thank you.

There's no one bad day in medical school. It's more like **** compounding leading up to a block exam. The worst period, so far, was sometime in the Spring semester where we had a lab practical and a 5 subject block exam the same week (Tuesday/Friday) with new anatomy lectures on Wednesday.

 

[somethingdeep]

Do you think it's less useful to do a spaced repetition program during MS1 and MS2 if your med school takes Step 1 after the clinical year? Edit: (Because I'm guessing you don't have time to keep up with the spaced repetition stuff while on the wards. Wondering if that renders Step 1 prep during MS1 and MS2 useless or close to it.)

 

[Barcu]

How challenging is a typical day of medical school? And why?

As someone said, it kind of depends on the class and how close you are to an exam. If it's early in the class, you can spare some time to do other things. In the week or few days leading up to an exam, you are pretty much studying 8-12 hours.

In the pre-clinical years, the lifestyle really is not that bad. I work harder in school, but I have fewer extra things going on than I did in undergrad. You also get to dictate your own schedule mostly.

How challenging is a really bad day in medical school? And why?

I don't know if I can answer this since I am just wrapping up my second year now. To be honest, I don't think I have had a "really bad" day. Tests aren't that great (especially with a written test in the morning and an anatomy practical in the afternoon). Though, the days leading up to the test are probably worse than the tests themselves.

I imagine clinical students would have worse days. I think overall the clinical years seem better. However, you have significantly less free time (on most rotations), and things just seem crazier.

I don't think it's necessarily the "hard work" that makes med school days bad. It's more of a large amount of responsibility thrust on you at once, and at some point, you aren't going to be able to handle it like you want to.

 

[NickNaylor]

How challenging is a typical day of medical school? And why?

How challenging is a really bad day in medical school? And why?

(If there's a lot of work, can you give an example of "a lot" of work?)

Thank you.

Can't say that I've had anything that I would consider to be a really bad day, so I'm not sure about that.

A typical day is challenging because there are so many pieces of information that you're exposed to that it can be very overwhelming. As long as you "do your time" with the material you likely won't have anything to worry about, but it's still very stress-inducing.

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[tiedyeddog]

How challenging is a typical day of medical school? And why?

How challenging is a really bad day in medical school? And why?

(If there's a lot of work, can you give an example of "a lot" of work?)

Thank you.

Worst days for me have usually been the day before exams. The impending doom I have felt before some exams was exasperating at times.

 

[typicalindian]

Wow hard to believe you're already done with your second year of med school nicknaylor. No questions atm though lol

 

[MDPhDJourney]

do you think it's less useful to do a spaced repetition program during ms1 and ms2 if your med school takes step 1 after the clinical year? Edit: (because i'm guessing you don't have time to keep up with the spaced repetition stuff while on the wards. Wondering if that renders step 1 prep during ms1 and ms2 useless or close to it.)

+1