Rbrav

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Anyone know what this consists of?
 

sbp

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its a test...

good luck
 

twentyone

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Slide test. Practice talking through a case out loud and bullsh!tting when you haven't a clue what you're looking at.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Its nothing like that. Its a test on a powerpoint projection in a room full of the other applicants. They show pictures and give you multiple choice answers on sheets before hand and you choose the best answer on the sheets. Did it last year.
 

2121115

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Its nothing like that. Its a test on a powerpoint projection in a room full of the other applicants. They show pictures and give you multiple choice answers on sheets before hand and you choose the best answer on the sheets. Did it last year.

You also have to arm wrestle the other applicants.
 

sbp

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yes its a powerpoint presentation and you fill out the answers on a sheet.. they claim it is to gather data about other programs based on the applicants test results ... and not to alter the specific applicants changes...

yes yes I don't buy it either..
 

sbp

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I was there... about 2 years ago.. as a mid third year... so the test might have changed... I thought it was reasonable.. not really zebra stuff... but the stuff I didn't know was because I was a third year ... and just didn't know...

I didn't think it was trying to trick you... other co-residents of mine agree to this

however... I didn't get in.. thank god ...
 

mlw03

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I was there... about 2 years ago.. as a mid third year... so the test might have changed... I thought it was reasonable.. not really zebra stuff... but the stuff I didn't know was because I was a third year ... and just didn't know...

I didn't think it was trying to trick you... other co-residents of mine agree to this

however... I didn't get in.. thank god ...
care to elaborate?
 

sbp

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i just thougth that it was not for me... to much scutwork... to long hours...

I did a fellowship that I signed out my own cases and I thought that was much more usefull...

but .. I would agree that there is something to be said about the sloan fellowship... but its a tough year..
 

mlw03

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i just thougth that it was not for me... to much scutwork... to long hours...

I did a fellowship that I signed out my own cases and I thought that was much more usefull...

but .. I would agree that there is something to be said about the sloan fellowship... but its a tough year..
Scutwork in a fellowship?! Like what? I'm a fellow this year (FP though) and there's minimal "scut" in my job, and it's the same scut attendings have to do as well, ie being polite and rinsing down my station for the autopsy techs after a case. That's disappointing, that such a high profile fellowship includes such menial work. I'd have thought that part of what makes a fellowship great is that you can truly focus on the cases and not have to be "moving the meat" as sometimes happens in residency.
 

Thaitanium

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Scutwork in a fellowship?! Like what? I'm a fellow this year (FP though) and there's minimal "scut" in my job, and it's the same scut attendings have to do as well, ie being polite and rinsing down my station for the autopsy techs after a case. That's disappointing, that such a high profile fellowship includes such menial work. I'd have thought that part of what makes a fellowship great is that you can truly focus on the cases and not have to be "moving the meat" as sometimes happens in residency.
I hear the fellows are grossing there until late into the night.
 

Thaitanium

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My friend finished their last year and she was grossing till midnight at times.
Yeah a coresident interviewed there but in a diff subspec. Shes told me I may not want to apply there for the reason cited above. MSK has no residency program and they need ppl of course to gross the specimens. From what I am hearing, your focus should not be on grossing but on indepep signout. I have not stepped foot there, but this is what I heard.
 
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Interviewing at both MSKCC and MD Anderson. Anyone knows how do these 2 compare (work volume, sign out style)?
 

2121115

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They both involve a lot of grossing. You are basically an intern for the attendings there. That is why they are always wanting people to do 2 years.
 
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I don't know about MSK, but I interviewed at MDA and there's a 2 hour preview of the surgical pathology program where they explain you will gross 6 weeks out of the year... I have no idea what the hours are, but even if long, it seems like its hardly a worthless experience since you're grossing some specimens you may have never seen before. Contrary to popular belief, grossing is actually an important part of the specimen workup... The other 44 or so weeks you are signing out, half inside cases and half outside consults.
 

mlw03

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Ok, I'll bite. No one ever said grossing is unimportant. We've said we're training to be pathologists, not PAs. Understanding grossing theory and being able to gross as efficiently as a PA are different things; this former important, the latter not so much. And if one was as a solid residency then you should have seen darn near everything before fellowship, but I suppose that if not then doing a few complex facial resections or hemipelvectomies might have value. But whatever one's area is, fellowship should prepare one for the job they'll be doing as an attending. If it doesn't, then the trainee is getting shafted.

I don't know about MSK, but I interviewed at MDA and there's a 2 hour preview of the surgical pathology program where they explain you will gross 6 weeks out of the year... I have no idea what the hours are, but even if long, it seems like its hardly a worthless experience since you're grossing some specimens you may have never seen before. Contrary to popular belief, grossing is actually an important part of the specimen workup... The other 44 or so weeks you are signing out, half inside cases and half outside consults.
 

sbp

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yes from what I understand there is about 9-12 weeks of grossing... that is daily grossing... often to late in the night... 9-12.... and while you are grossing you don't see those specimens.. so the idea of learning from this grossing is kinda hard to understand if you don't see what you did...

the rest of the time you rotate for 3 weeks in each subspecialty... so by the time you learn where the bathroom is you switch to the next... the best part of sloan would be the second sub-specialty year... if you get it...
 

KCShaw

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Keep in mind though that there are plenty of jobs out there where there is no PA, or the "PA" equivalent isn't certified, or you end up with someone brand new to the job or otherwise not terribly good who you either need to train, correct, buzzard around to keep from screwing up, etc. unless or until they get better, get fired, or move on. I still shudder at times at how little certain attendings knew about grossing -- new residents learn very quickly who to (and not to) ask about grossing. Still, as has been bouncing around in another thread, it's a matter of reasonable balance; for the most part one should gain more doing things other than grossing, despite its own obvious value and need to keep up experience in -- particularly, one would hope, by fellowship.

That said, while chatting a few years ago with A Big Name Pathologist at a Big Name Institution with numerous various fellows it became clear that occasionally even fellows don't know how to do simple things like take margins on common specimens. Whether that was a matter of being overworked and worn out, or just didn't know/understand what they were doing, I suppose is another matter.
 

2121115

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Keep in mind though that there are plenty of jobs out there where there is no PA, or the "PA" equivalent isn't certified
That may certainly be true. But if I had to gross as a matter of routine at my job, I probably wouldn't be here.
 

earthworm

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There is a lot of grossing at MDA- 10-12 weeks, divided into 2 week blocks scattered throughout the year. It is daily grossing, without seeing your specimens microscopically. However, in contrast to MSK, you don't gross late into the night. Grossing is done by 5 or 6 pm and the leftover specimens are grossed the following day.
 

Doctor Zaius

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True you work like a dog late into the night at MSKCC and you have to do about 6 weeks of grossing. But the spectum of cases you see and the level of teaching you will get make up an experience that you cannot find anywhere else. You'll sign out GU with reuter, GI with Klimstra, Gyn with Soslow, neuro with Rosenblum, and lung with Travis.

Independant sign out is great, but you'll get that experience in your first job regardless of where you go.
 

sbp

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It is like I said before... there is a lot to be said about a place like sloan you see great cases and work with great people... from what I understand though the consults these people get are seen by the second year fellow not the first...

also the hours are very long.. so its a decision one has to make for himself...
 

Doctor Zaius

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It is like I said before... there is a lot to be said about a place like sloan you see great cases and work with great people... from what I understand though the consults these people get are seen by the second year fellow not the first...

also the hours are very long.. so its a decision one has to make for himself...
Personal consults are seen by the 2nd year fellows (subspecialty), but the material that is sent for people coming to MSK for treatment is seen by the 1st year fellows. The SP fellows see tons of biopsies, both in house and from outside.