MSP (multi year special pay)

[pgg]

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This topic comes up from time to time when special pays are discussed, so I thought I'd post the actual rates.

Multi Year Special Pay (MSP) is paid to those physicians who extend their contract after their initial obligated service period is done.

The military pay tables from DFAS don't make this clear, but accepting a MSP contract changes ISP levels as well. Current rates are on page 9 of this document.

The differences for some specialties are substantial. Eg neurosurgery ISP is $36,000, except when taken in conjunction with MSP, then it's $60,000. So a 4-year neurosurgery MSP contract is worth $120,000/year in MSP+ISP ... which probably brings total compensation for that neurosurgeon into the $230-240K/year range depending on BAH and VSP/BCP levels.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

Do you realize the AVERAGE neurosurgeon makes over $700,000 per year and many surpass 1M? Do you really think 240-250K is enticing to a neurosurgeon? The military should be absolutely embarassed by what they pay ALL their physicians, especially neurosurgeons. I can't believe anybody extends past their intial ADSO. I moonlighted a total of 8 weeks last year and made over 2/3 of my military salary (ALL bonuses included). Pathetic, truely pathetic.

 

[colbgw02]

Do you realize the AVERAGE neurosurgeon makes over $700,000 per year and many surpass 1M? Do you really think 240-250K is enticing to a neurosurgeon? The military should be absolutely embarassed by what they pay ALL their physicians, especially neurosurgeons. I can't believe anybody extends past their intial ADSO. I moonlighted a total of 8 weeks last year and made over 2/3 of my military salary (ALL bonuses included). Pathetic, truely pathetic.

I understand your point, and as someone in a specialty who stands to double or triple his salary out of the military, I agree with you do a large extent. However, the bolded statement simply isn't true. My wife is a civilian family practitioner, and her salary would go up $20K-$30K a year if she were to join the military. I also know a handful of family practitioners and general pediatricians that joined because they could make the same or slightly better money in uniform. Am I advocating that? Hell no. I just think there are enough things wrong with military medicine without trumping up the problems.

 

[pgg]

Do you realize the AVERAGE neurosurgeon makes over $700,000 per year and many surpass 1M? Do you really think 240-250K is enticing to a neurosurgeon? The military should be absolutely embarassed by what they pay ALL their physicians, especially neurosurgeons. I can't believe anybody extends past their intial ADSO. I moonlighted a total of 8 weeks last year and made over 2/3 of my military salary (ALL bonuses included). Pathetic, truely pathetic.

Rather than just PM the information to the person who requested it, I decided to post it. Don't interpret my example as an endorsement. I agree it's absurd.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

I'm sure you are correct - the only specialties where compensation in the military is anywhere close to the civilian world are FP and Peds (maybe general IM), that's it. I'm an ENT and could move 5 miles away downtown and triple my salary w/o having the risk of deployment. Moonlighting somewhat helps the financial rape that the military is performing but certainly doesn't close the gap completely. Everyone should get all they can (i.e. free medical care, using generous amount of leave for moonlighting/family time, post 9/11 GI Bill transfer of benefits, etc) while they're in b/c the military is certainly getting everything out of them. I laugh at the line officers who believe that we are OVERPAID! They have absolutely no clue. 2.5 years and counting!

 

[GtownCobra]

Thanks for posting that document, it's helpful, but it raises a question on my part:

"ISP shall not be paid during the same fiscal year in which the qualifying residency training is completed. However, if the qualifying training is completed out of cycle (at a time prior to the end of June) and it is not the fault of the medical officer, the ISP may be granted during the same fiscal year in which the qualifying residency is completed. The effective date for ISP shall be calculated from the completion of the qualifying training plus three months. This keeps all medical officers eligible for ISP consistent in how their eligibility date is calculated"

Regarding that paragraph, I am doing COT in July and starting an active duty civilian sponsored forensic pathology fellowship in August. Does this mean I will not be receiving my ISP for my first year of active duty? I think the military fiscal year starts 1-OCT, so I guess I still do?

 

[met19]

I'm sure you are correct - the only specialties where compensation in the military is anywhere close to the civilian world are FP and Peds (maybe general IM), that's it. I'm an ENT and could move 5 miles away downtown and triple my salary w/o having the risk of deployment. Moonlighting somewhat helps the financial rape that the military is performing but certainly doesn't close the gap completely. Everyone should get all they can (i.e. free medical care, using generous amount of leave for moonlighting/family time, post 9/11 GI Bill transfer of benefits, etc) while they're in b/c the military is certainly getting everything out of them. I laugh at the line officers who believe that we are OVERPAID! They have absolutely no clue. 2.5 years and counting!

i know the gi bill pays for school, but what benefits can I get after I have already completed residency. thanks

 

[crazybrancato]

Do you realize the AVERAGE neurosurgeon ....

anyone with half a brain could tell that the OP was posting this information for the benefit of the general readership here, and was using neurosurgery as an example to illustrate a point . . . not to argue that the pay discrepancy is just or fair . . .(we can all tell that it isn't). Apparently, you don't have half a brain, depsite being a staff ENT. . . or your venemous hatred for the military is clouding your judgement . . .

I'm sure you are correct - the only specialties where compensation in the military is anywhere close to the civilian world are FP and Peds (maybe general IM), that's it. I'm an ENT and could move 5 miles away downtown and triple my salary w/o having the risk of deployment. Moonlighting somewhat helps the financial rape that the military is performing but certainly doesn't close the gap completely.

Well great . . .so why didn't you do this simple high-school math when you were signing up? Oh let me guess, you took HPSP, you were 22 and dumb, and didn't understand the uncertainty of the decision you were making. Well too bad . . .you made the decision to go to medical school, which is a big step in and of itself. Why the hell would you so carelessly decide to joing the military?

I laugh at the line officers who believe that we are OVERPAID! They have absolutely no clue. 2.5 years and counting!

What line officer thinks your overpaid??? They're not dummies, they know the pay deficiencies for physicians that you're talking about (they may not care, but they know it). I was a line officer once, never thought my doctor was overpaid, never met any line officers that thought their doctors were overpaid. Quite frankly we were so busy we never thought about our doctors much. You've got a mean old inferiority complex going . . . so thank you for your service and GTFO.

 

[Gastrapathy]

anyone with half a brain could tell that the OP was posting this information for the benefit of the general readership here, and was using neurosurgery as an example to illustrate a point . . . not to argue that the pay discrepancy is just or fair . . .(we can all tell that it isn't). Apparently, you don't have half a brain, depsite being a staff ENT. . . or your venemous hatred for the military is clouding your judgement . . .



Well great . . .so why didn't you do this simple high-school math when you were signing up? Oh let me guess, you took HPSP, you were 22 and dumb, and didn't understand the uncertainty of the decision you were making. Well too bad . . .you made the decision to go to medical school, which is a big step in and of itself. Why the hell would you so carelessly decide to joing the military?



What line officer thinks your overpaid??? They're not dummies, they know the pay deficiencies for physicians that you're talking about (they may not care, but they know it). I was a line officer once, never thought my doctor was overpaid, never met any line officers that thought their doctors were overpaid. Quite frankly we were so busy we never thought about our doctors much. You've got a mean old inferiority complex going . . . so thank you for your service and GTFO.

Really, you were a line officer? Who could guess that? CA has been a useful poster on this forum for years. His posts about how he made locums work and website recommendations are more than you've ever added to the board.
So he popped off a little, who cares? Not that he needs me to defend him, just struck a nerve.

Plenty of line officers feel superior to everyone else. That general attitude is a large part of what dictates our special pays. The downward pressure doesn't come from BUMED.

As for "well too bad", guess what, that attitude is precisely why he and others post the rants they do. They can't get back the millions of dollars but they can keep others from choosing to join without understanding the implications. And when you end up a GMO and can't get the specialty of your choice...well too bad.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

Really, you were a line officer? Who could guess that? CA has been a useful poster on this forum for years. His posts about how he made locums work and website recommendations are more than you've ever added to the board.
So he popped off a little, who cares? Not that he needs me to defend him, just struck a nerve.

Plenty of line officers feel superior to everyone else. That general attitude is a large part of what dictates our special pays. The downward pressure doesn't come from BUMED.

As for "well too bad", guess what, that attitude is precisely why he and others post the rants they do. They can't get back the millions of dollars but they can keep others from choosing to join without understanding the implications. And when you end up a GMO and can't get the specialty of your choice...well too bad.

👍

 

[bobbyseal]

Do you realize the AVERAGE neurosurgeon makes over $700,000 per year and many surpass 1M? Do you really think 240-250K is enticing to a neurosurgeon? The military should be absolutely embarassed by what they pay ALL their physicians, especially neurosurgeons. I can't believe anybody extends past their intial ADSO. I moonlighted a total of 8 weeks last year and made over 2/3 of my military salary (ALL bonuses included). Pathetic, truely pathetic.

It is frustrating to be so underpaid. Every surgeon and surgical specialist gripes at how little they make. Oh well. The government isn't going to pay someone who works under the president more than the $400,000 s/he makes. Although it's not politically palatable in today's economy, raising Mr. President's salary is the first step to higher physician pay. But since they haven't changed ISP rates in so many years, this is probably unlikely too.

So, like everyone else, I'm going to enjoy the ridiculous amount of time off from work when I get it. I'm going to have my partners write me for Tylenol so I don't have to pay for it. And finally, enjoy living in a location that I normally wouldn't have gotten to experience.

 

[a1qwerty55]

It is frustrating to be so underpaid. Every surgeon and surgical specialist gripes at how little they make. Oh well. The government isn't going to pay someone who works under the president more than the $400,000 s/he makes. Although it's not politically palatable in today's economy, raising Mr. President's salary is the first step to higher physician pay. But since they haven't changed ISP rates in so many years, this is probably unlikely too.

So, like everyone else, I'm going to enjoy the ridiculous amount of time off from work when I get it. I'm going to have my partners write me for Tylenol so I don't have to pay for it. And finally, enjoy living in a location that I normally wouldn't have gotten to experience.

Good luck getting the ridiculous amount of time off - I work more than my civilian counterparts for a lot less money.

I think I'm most frustrated by the stagnation of the ASP it has been 15K for like 20+ years (this effects everyone equally and should be increased). The board certification pay also is stupidly low. Lastly, some of the bonuses should be tied to deployablity to weed out the broken people who currently are paid the same with no personal or family risk of deployment.

 

[pgg]

So, like everyone else, I'm going to enjoy the ridiculous amount of time off from work when I get it.

Well, don't assume everyone else has your hours. I'm someplace small, so my hours are good for the most part, though ~q3-4 call as an attending kinda sucks, even if it is pager call. The primary care guys here are worked to the bone. I feel for them, I really do. I have colleagues in my own specialty who work far longer hours than me elsewhere.

 

[bobbyseal]

Well, don't assume everyone else has your hours. I'm someplace small, so my hours are good for the most part, though ~q3-4 call as an attending kinda sucks, even if it is pager call. The primary care guys here are worked to the bone. I feel for them, I really do. I have colleagues in my own specialty who work far longer hours than me elsewhere.

It's all relative as they say... As a chief resident I was on primary call for a 7 surgeon group for half the year. I had a day off or two during the week and then every other weekend off. So going from that to where I'm on Q3 is glorious. Plus, this is the first year I am enjoying Thanksgiving, Christmas and soon to be New Years with my family uninterrupted by call in the past 5 years. So for me, this job is a vacation. (until I get deployed!)

Anyway, I realize not everyone is in the same billet as I am in. All commands are different, too. So, take what I say with a grain of salt.