MSTP vs. NYU MD-only

[account12345]

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Thank you all for the advice!

 

[captain_kirk]

Normally, I would say you'd be crazy to choose an MD over an MD/PhD, but a fully funded MD changes the calculus—even without considering the scorched-earth "Trump variable."

Keep in mind: an MD from NYU was enough for Jonas Salk (whom I’d argue is the greatest biomedical scientist of the 20th century). I suggest you take a look at the departments related to your field of interest at Harvard, Stanford, Duke, etc. Check out the degrees of their faculty. Does it look like there's a barrier keeping MDs from reaching the highest levels? I don't think so. And if you decide later that you want a PhD after earning your NYU MD, you can still pursue one without debt, even as a faculty member. That's what David Curiel (the first person to show that an mRNA vaccine could work) at WashU did while he was still a professor at UAB (David T. Curiel, MD, PhD).

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Fully funded MD means you can get out in 4 (or 5) years. MSTP locks you in for 8-10 years at a grad student salary.

I agree even without the current administration's disdain for scientific research, this isn't a difficult choice.

 

[caffeineallergy]

I would recommend looking very closely at the environment right now at NYU before making your decision as a lot of what people mentioned regarding the NYU MSTP offers being rescinded centered around a lack of institutional funding for both the MD and MD/PhD. In an environment like that, will you be able to or have support to do additional research? Along with that, look at the institution that you are considering for MD/PhD. During my second looks, schools told me about certain donations the schools had received recently or other signs of institutional funding ie hiring faculty, involvement of high level people within the hospital system/medical school at the second looks. which demonstrated that if all things fail, the school itself cares about the md/phd program enough that it would make sure those students were supported.

Additionally, to your second point, I think it really depends on how you envision your own research direction going. The reality is that science now vs science of the past is very different. I have had interviewers and mentors discuss the difficulty of getting their foot in the door of research as MDs, but they also were able to get there. I think ultimately, you won't be closing doors, but it's a difference of how you get there and the time you would have put into getting a PhD will be allocated and spent in other parts of your career to become an MD-only physician-scientist.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

Fully funded MD means you can get out in 4 (or 5) years. MSTP locks you in for 8-10 years at a grad student salary.

I agree even without the current administration's disdain for scientific research, this isn't a difficult choice.

Valid point but you have to consider 2 additional factors:

1. How competitive is the residency you want to target (I understand it is hard to pin that down when you have not even matriculated). Some competitive specialty academic residencies will value 3-4 years worth of PhD research compared to just 1 research year.
2. Only a minority percentage of MD-PhD students take longer than 8 years. If funding constraints remain, programs may encourage and support students to complete their PhD quicker in which case the MD-PhD may take only 7 years.....remains to be seen.

I would also lean towards the fully funded MD but it is not a slam dunk decision in my eyes.

 

[mszzeta]

Valid point but you have to consider 2 additional factors:

1. How competitive is the residency you want to target (I understand it is hard to pin that down when you have not even matriculated). Some competitive specialty academic residencies will value 3-4 years worth of PhD research compared to just 1 research year.
2. Only a minority percentage of MD-PhD students take longer than 8 years. If funding constraints remain, programs may encourage and support students to complete their PhD quicker in which case the MD-PhD may take only 7 years.....remains to be seen.

I would also lean towards the fully funded MD but it is not a slam dunk decision in my eyes.

The question would become would it worth to go to these "competitive" residencies at the expense of spending 2-3 more years of life in hardcore research. The next question would be what the difference is for one's life for these "competitive" residencies vs others. For most jobs, the difference is probably minimal.

 

[mszzeta]

Depends on how much you would want to become a physician-scientist. If you are now determined to do science despite cutting your paycheck by half, choose the MSTP. Otherwise, go with NYU MD

 

[ophthoaspirant]

Depends on how much you would want to become a physician-scientist. If you are now determined to do science despite cutting your paycheck by half, choose the MSTP. Otherwise, go with NYU MD

If you get into a lucrative competitive specialty such as Ophtho, derm, plastics, neurosurgery etc thanks to the advantage the PhD research gave to your residency application, then your paycheck will to the contrary be much higher along with a better WLB that some of these specialities give you.

 

[FalconSlice]

If you get into a lucrative competitive specialty such as Ophtho, derm, plastics, neurosurgery etc thanks to the advantage the PhD research gave to your residency application, then your paycheck will to the contrary be much higher along with a better WLB that some of these specialities give you.

Just my two cents, just realize that not everybody values basic science PhD research in all the fields. I can’t speak to the others but plastic surgery doesn’t care as much as people would like to think in fact in some interviews I think it may have hurt me. Plastic surgery is not Particularly an academic field and the PhD is more of a flex for people that can barely read real basic science literature, no offense to any plastic surgeons me being one of them.

 

[mszzeta]

If you get into a lucrative competitive specialty such as Ophtho, derm, plastics, neurosurgery etc thanks to the advantage the PhD research gave to your residency application, then your paycheck will to the contrary be much higher along with a better WLB that some of these specialities give you.

NYU MD should be enough to get into these residencies. Far majority of their residents are MD-only if you look nationwide. Of course, if you want to go to Harvard for whatever reason, PhD give you an edge.

 

[ophthoaspirant]

NYU MD should be enough to get into these residencies. Far majority of their residents are MD-only if you look nationwide. Of course, if you want to go to Harvard for whatever reason, PhD give you an edge.

Not disagreeing with the data you are pointing to but you should try to project 4+ years out. Steadily the percentage of MDs with RY getting into competitive academic residencies is going up for the last few years. As RYs get impacted by funding cuts, top residencies will look to admit more MD/PhDs.