Mt. Sinai (Icahn) vs Duke

[dontfindmenomatterwhat]

Hello all. So far, I am deciding between these two schools. I have yet to receive financial aid information, but as of now, I'm still unsure as to which option is better.

Mt. Sinai
Pros

• Living in NYC would be super fun and I've always wanted to go north east
• Seems more interested in social issues with a more diverse patient population

Cons

• Heard questionable things about gunner-type student population (claims are unsubstantiated though)
• Cost of living in NYC is just brutal

Duke
Pros

• Higher ranked program with cool initiatives like 3rd year research/passion project built into the program
• Cost of living is much lower, and weather seems wonderful
• Students seem happy

Cons

• Not as diverse of a population -- living in the South wouldn't have been my preferred choice
• Durham does not compare to NYC when it comes to doing cool, fun things

Addendum: My partner and I have both been accepted to schools in Durham and NYC (law and medicine respectively) and we are trying to find the best fit for both of us. A multidisciplinary perspective would be really helpful, though not expected.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[allezlesbleus10]

mount sinai has cheap student housing for manhattan! i think its only like 550/mo, and they may be generous with the fin aid!

 

[dontfindmenomatterwhat]

mount sinai has cheap student housing for manhattan! i think its only like 550/mo, and they may be generous with the fin aid!

Good to know, thank you! That's in the dorm-style housing right? And I'm definitely hoping they are generous -- fingers crossed.

 

[m1redsox]

Is there a prestige difference in your partner’s law school choices? I have heard prestige matters much more for law than it does for medicine. Because honestly, these two med schools are on the same level with a slight edge given to Duke.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Because honestly, these two med schools are on the same level with a slight edge given to Duke.

Lol that's cute. Nah Duke is a solid tier above Sinai. Historically Duke has always been around 5-10, and historically Sinai has been around 20-30 only with a lucky one-off in the last rankings, mostly due to location and the funding because of that. Within medicine, sinai hospital system is very good but it's mostly well known in NYC area. Duke has overall better residencies and a much bigger name within medicine. Outside of medicine, obviously Duke has a much bigger name.
Can't comment on the training at either or the outcomes (I'm sure Sinai does well in residencies if you're hoping to match in NYC area), but Duke will set you up everywhere. Duke's flexible 3rd year which seems truly flexible as opposed to other programs since it allows you to do a Master's in that year (from what I've been told) seems more ideal in my opinion.
However, if you're considering law schools for your partner, if the law school is Columbia, that might be enough to sway you to go to Sinai.

 

[total_tradegy22]

It depends what sort of activities you like doing. I've lived near Duke and we had the best time. Super easy access to forest trails, lakes, etc., and it's only a couple hours from the beach or the mountains. So if you're interested in easy outdoors access, Durham was a nice place to be compared to a lot of other places.

 

[m1redsox]

Lol that's cute. Nah Duke is a solid tier above Sinai. Historically Duke has always been around 5-10, and historically Sinai has been around 20-30 only with a lucky one-off in the last rankings, mostly due to location and the funding because of that. Within medicine, sinai hospital system is very good but it's mostly well known in NYC area. Duke has overall better residencies and a much bigger name within medicine. Outside of medicine, obviously Duke has a much bigger name.
Can't comment on the training at either or the outcomes (I'm sure Sinai does well in residencies if you're hoping to match in NYC area), but Duke will set you up everywhere. Duke's flexible 3rd year which seems truly flexible as opposed to other programs since it allows you to do a Master's in that year (from what I've been told) seems more ideal in my opinion.
However, if you're considering law schools for your partner, if the law school is Columbia, that might be enough to sway you to go to Sinai.

Lol, pretty condescending response about a minor ranking difference, but okay. Classic SDNer I guess haha. Not sure how many tiers you use when ranking schools, but I would consider all T20 programs on the same tier (especially since Duke has definitely found itself in the T15 range before too - #13 in 2020). I don't really think it's productive to separate T5, T10, and T20 programs because there's really no tangible difference. If we were comparing a T50 school to a T20 school, it might be a different conversation, but Sinai is an awesome program that matches very well and has great home residency programs (perhaps with some question around "gunner"-ism and program malignancy rumors, but well-regarded nonetheless).

Like I said, Duke gets the edge, but it's not unreasonable to pick Sinai if OP wants to live in NYC or their partner has a better law option there. Even still, Duke Law is fantastic, and I love NC. Personally, I would choose Duke over Sinai 1000% (because of weather, traffic, and COL), but I'm not going to imply it would be crazy to choose another T20 program over Duke. Can't go wrong with either choice.

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

Lol, pretty condescending response about a minor ranking difference, but okay. Classic SDNer I guess haha. Not sure how many tiers you use when ranking schools, but I would consider all T20 programs on the same tier (especially since Duke has definitely found itself in the T15 range before too - #13 in 2020). I don't really think it's productive to separate T5, T10, and T20 programs because there's really no tangible difference. If we were comparing a T50 school to a T20 school, it might be a different conversation, but Sinai is an awesome program that matches very well and has great home residency programs (perhaps with some question around "gunner"-ism and program malignancy rumors, but well-regarded nonetheless).

Like I said, Duke gets the edge, but it's not unreasonable to pick Sinai if OP wants to live in NYC or their partner has a better law option there. Even still, Duke Law is fantastic, and I love NC. Personally, I would choose Duke over Sinai 1000% (because of weather, traffic, and COL), but I'm not going to imply it would be crazy to choose another T20 program over Duke. Can't go wrong with either choice.

Lol glad you clarified that you consider all T20s the same tier, that's a huge caveat to your statement. Since there is a noticeable difference within the T20s. T5 match lists are in a league of their own, for example.

for those that want a reference. The 2 years in the last 20 that Duke was outside the top 10 were probably more an artifact of US News methodology glitches than anything else. This is why it's best to look at aggregate data instead of one-offs like this year's. Also why you should look at other things like doximity residency rankings, and residency director rankings. They're obviously not the ultimate metrics, but taken together they can create an overall picture. Sinai is an example of how following the most recent US News's whimsical research rankings is subject to scrutiny as it's PD rankings are a lot lower. This is what fascinates me as to how people just follow the most recent US News report blindly, especially since Sinai (and most NYC schools) get an artificial bump since they're in NY and get funding $$ as a result.

If you consider all T20s the same tier then sure go ahead and say that but I think you should definitely say "they're both T20s" instead of saying they're the same level. If you think HMS is in the same level as Sinai, that's definitely an opinion. So I've shown you how historical US News, PD rankings, and Doximity (you'll have to look on your own) have separated the two schools. But yeah you can just look at the most recent US News and see #11 and #6 and say they're the same lol

 

[deleted1126476]

Lol glad you clarified that you consider all T20s the same tier, that's a huge caveat to your statement. Since there is a noticeable difference within the T20s. T5 match lists are in a league of their own, for example.

for those that want a reference. The 2 years in the last 20 that Duke was outside the top 10 were probably more an artifact of US News methodology glitches than anything else. This is why it's best to look at aggregate data instead of one-offs like this year's. Also why you should look at other things like doximity residency rankings, and residency director rankings. They're obviously not the ultimate metrics, but taken together they can create an overall picture. Sinai is an example of how following the most recent US News's whimsical research rankings is subject to scrutiny as it's PD rankings are a lot lower. This is what fascinates me as to how people just follow the most recent US News report blindly, especially since Sinai (and most NYC schools) get an artificial bump since they're in NY and get funding $$ as a result.

If you consider all T20s the same tier then sure go ahead and say that but I think you should definitely say "they're both T20s" instead of saying they're the same level. If you think HMS is in the same level as Sinai, that's definitely an opinion. So I've shown you how historical US News, PD rankings, and Doximity (you'll have to look on your own) have separated the two schools. But yeah you can just look at the most recent US News and see #11 and #6 and say they're the same lol

I gotta get off this website man 💀 gah damn

 

[BritainKittenMittens]

I gotta get off this website man 💀 gah damn

Admittedly I did go a little overboard with the stats. I personally think Sinai (and NYU) game the system for rankings in recent years and as a result, they're overrated, leading many who follow US News to think they're higher than they really are.

 

[chilly_md]

A reminder to keep discussion on track with helping the OP make their decision.

The question about which law school in NYC is one of the most pertinent. I think there are opportunities to work with a diverse patient population at Duke and you would be happier from a weather perspective. NYC is not for everyone, and that seems to be the only distinct pro the OP put down.

 

[deleted1065184]

OP, SDN obsession with USNWR rankings aside, I think you'll be successful at either school. Things to keep in mind. (1) Financial aid, once it comes in. This should be a big factor. (2) Do you and your partner want to live in NYC long-term? (3) Does your partner want to work at a huge law firm?

Assuming financial costs are the same, if you and REALLY wanna live in NYC long-term and/or they want to work at a huge law firm, Sinai is probably the way to go. If you don't have a preference long-term, I think you should really consider Duke because the Raleigh-Durham area has much more to do than you think (plus you'll be in med school, so you likely won't even max out all there is to do in the area and DEFINITELY won't max out all there is to do in NYC). However, worth noting that Charlotte (an AMAZING city imo) has a ton of big law firms and going to law school at Duke would def help with that.

Plus COL is much cheaper, weather is so much nicer, and that 3rd research year is an amazing built-in way to make you much more competitive for residency. Good luck!

 

[drstrangelove22]

These medical schools have comparable match results, research funding, and global health/extracurricular opportunities. Agree with everyone above saying that the law school option really matters. If your partner wants to practice at a name brand law firm, you should choose Mount Sinai/NYC.

The other component to think about is the culture and lifestyle that you are looking for. If you are from the Northeast, are liberal leaning, and see yourself on the weekends going out to restaurants, shows, cocktail bars, museums, then Mount Sinai sounds like it would be for you. If you are from the South and see yourself staying there, prefer more rural/Southern values, then Duke sounds more your speed.

 

[deleted1065184]

Y'all, please look at the date. OP is finishing up their first year of medical school at this point.

 

[chilly_md]

Closing since the OP should be well into their first year of school by now wherever they decided to go.