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Which school would you go to?
mt. sinai vs. nyu
- Thread starter eurotrash
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i work at nyu so i know a lil thing or two about the school. the clinical training u get at nyu med center and bellevue hospital is excellent, but the facilities here, especially the anatomy lab, student cafeteria, and dorms are not as nice as u would expect them to be. in fact, they're pretty bad. but there is no doubt that is' a good school. i dont' know abouty mt. sinai cuz i haven't been there myself but if i had to choose, i'll pick mt. sinai hands down
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I cancelled my interview at mt sinai
good school, I admit
but it is bordering harlem
as a girl, I don't feel safe there
it is definitely not a place you should be walking around 10 at night after going to the library, not alone at least
as for social life: only one subway train goes up there, it is slow
nyu is better, better access, better dorms (the dorm and teaching facilities are in one building) plus, clinical is sooooooo goooood
good school, I admit
but it is bordering harlem
as a girl, I don't feel safe there
it is definitely not a place you should be walking around 10 at night after going to the library, not alone at least
as for social life: only one subway train goes up there, it is slow
nyu is better, better access, better dorms (the dorm and teaching facilities are in one building) plus, clinical is sooooooo goooood
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well when I interviewed at Mt. Sinai earlier, I pestered them a lot about this.
here's what I saw/they told me:
1) the students at Mt. Sinai really enjoy their school. its pass fail (not sure about NYU) and they really get along well with each other. everybody stressed how laid back and non-competitive it was.
2) I tend to feel that the clinical opportunities at Mt. Sinai are better than those of NYU. While NYU has bellevue, Sinai has 13 or 14 afiliated institutions where students can and do (at upto 6 different ones) clinical rotations. One of these is a large hospital which only admits through its ER so you see some really interesting things come through there.
3) the gross anatomy room is very nice
4) student housing isnt that bad and is right across the street from the hospital and the classrooms. there is also a neato set of tunnels that connect the buildings so its not like you really have to be walking around that neighborhood in the dead of night. also the neighborhood really isnt that bad at all. none of the students seemed to have a problem with it at all.
5) and this is what impressed me the most: the school and really the students were very active in the community. they (students and faculty alike) recognize that they have an obligation to the community at large and much more so than any other school I saw, the students and faculty wanted to make a difference. for instance, the school does a lot of research into disparities of the quality of healthcare provision across socioeconomic classes....
and they've got this preventative medicine center...
in summary at Mt. Sinai, I saw:
really happy kids who enjoyed learning and working together and who wanted to have an impact on their community. faculty was supportive of student endeavors and surprisingly accesible and frank.
lastly, what I saw of the school didnt really make me see it as a strong "academic" program - instead of sort of sitting back and abstractly analyzing the problem and asking questions, the school is much more pragmatic and hands on...
basic research for instance is not the schools strongest point, but its clinical research is pretty good. as i see it, mt. sinai is more about taking action and getting involved than about sitting by on the sidelines and discussing whats going on.
here's what I saw/they told me:
1) the students at Mt. Sinai really enjoy their school. its pass fail (not sure about NYU) and they really get along well with each other. everybody stressed how laid back and non-competitive it was.
2) I tend to feel that the clinical opportunities at Mt. Sinai are better than those of NYU. While NYU has bellevue, Sinai has 13 or 14 afiliated institutions where students can and do (at upto 6 different ones) clinical rotations. One of these is a large hospital which only admits through its ER so you see some really interesting things come through there.
3) the gross anatomy room is very nice
4) student housing isnt that bad and is right across the street from the hospital and the classrooms. there is also a neato set of tunnels that connect the buildings so its not like you really have to be walking around that neighborhood in the dead of night. also the neighborhood really isnt that bad at all. none of the students seemed to have a problem with it at all.
5) and this is what impressed me the most: the school and really the students were very active in the community. they (students and faculty alike) recognize that they have an obligation to the community at large and much more so than any other school I saw, the students and faculty wanted to make a difference. for instance, the school does a lot of research into disparities of the quality of healthcare provision across socioeconomic classes....
and they've got this preventative medicine center...
in summary at Mt. Sinai, I saw:
really happy kids who enjoyed learning and working together and who wanted to have an impact on their community. faculty was supportive of student endeavors and surprisingly accesible and frank.
lastly, what I saw of the school didnt really make me see it as a strong "academic" program - instead of sort of sitting back and abstractly analyzing the problem and asking questions, the school is much more pragmatic and hands on...
basic research for instance is not the schools strongest point, but its clinical research is pretty good. as i see it, mt. sinai is more about taking action and getting involved than about sitting by on the sidelines and discussing whats going on.
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what a big mistake. i actually know mt. sinai area very well and the dorm is "on-campus", one block from where you take classes, and yes, it's on the border of spanish harlem, but fine as far as safety goes (there are plenty of hospital personnel, security guards around)...NYU area is pretty sketchy too if you have walked around that area after 10pm. all in all, anywhere in nyc seems unsafe after 10pm unless it's time square, union square, columbus circle, upper east/west sides...you just have to be careful late at night...i wouldn't rule out mt sinai at all for safety reasons, but this is just my personal opinion, having been a New Yorker for the last several years...
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Am I making a big mistake here?
I've been accepted to Sinai since early Dec, but today I checked my e-mail and got an interview invitation from NYU. I've been finished with my interviews since November and quite honestly, swore then that it would take a lot for me to go to another one (I've cancelled 3 so far partly because of this fact - also acceptances). I thought I had screwed up some part of the app. to NYU because I had heard back from all but NYU and another school.
So anyway, Should I go to NYU? Am I making a big mistake by not going? Btw, I've been accepted to another top 10 school and interviewed at others to give a better perspective.
I've been accepted to Sinai since early Dec, but today I checked my e-mail and got an interview invitation from NYU. I've been finished with my interviews since November and quite honestly, swore then that it would take a lot for me to go to another one (I've cancelled 3 so far partly because of this fact - also acceptances). I thought I had screwed up some part of the app. to NYU because I had heard back from all but NYU and another school.
So anyway, Should I go to NYU? Am I making a big mistake by not going? Btw, I've been accepted to another top 10 school and interviewed at others to give a better perspective.
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No.
which top ten school is it?
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I have to completely disagree. I think that if there is even the slightest chance that you would go to NYU, you should go interview and visit. You have nothing to lose and you may even love it.
Let me start out by saying that I know both schools extremely well as I am a paramedic in NYC and have already been accepted to Mt. Sinai. My older sister is a 4th year medical student at NYU. Although NYU?s facilities are not the greatest (excluding Tisch Hospital) the clinical training that takes place at NYU (more specifically at Bellevue Hospital) is second to none! There is no hospital in the country that serves as diverse a patient population as Bellevue. Also Murray Hill (where NYU is located) is a cool place to live. It is a very young and trendy section of the city with lots of restaurants and bars and cool stores. With that being said NYU is supposedly a much tougher school than Mt. Sinai (which is known for its laid back atmosphere) because it is very detail oriented. This is both positive (when it comes to USMLEs) and negative (in terms of quality of life).
Hope that helps. You really can?t go wrong at either school.
Let me start out by saying that I know both schools extremely well as I am a paramedic in NYC and have already been accepted to Mt. Sinai. My older sister is a 4th year medical student at NYU. Although NYU?s facilities are not the greatest (excluding Tisch Hospital) the clinical training that takes place at NYU (more specifically at Bellevue Hospital) is second to none! There is no hospital in the country that serves as diverse a patient population as Bellevue. Also Murray Hill (where NYU is located) is a cool place to live. It is a very young and trendy section of the city with lots of restaurants and bars and cool stores. With that being said NYU is supposedly a much tougher school than Mt. Sinai (which is known for its laid back atmosphere) because it is very detail oriented. This is both positive (when it comes to USMLEs) and negative (in terms of quality of life).
Hope that helps. You really can?t go wrong at either school.
I am an M2 at NYU so I can add a few comments here. I also interviewed at Sinai a couple years ago.
I have to echo that the clinical training at NYU is second to none. Bellevue serves the homeless and immigrant populations of New York City. Med students get real hands-on experience and take on a lot of responsibility.
Housing isn't great--dorm style living first year and usually second year.
I also would add that the above poster is correct in saying NYU is very intense in volume of material covered. Obviously i cant truly compare to Sinai since i dont go there, but based on my impression when i interviewed there, the curriculum seems more laid back as do the students. Here we have to memorize every last detail about every little fact. The students are also a little more intense and tend to act as they follow the philosophy of play hard/party hard. Sinai students seemed more down to earth when i visited, but that could just be a biased sample from my interview day.
I have to echo that the clinical training at NYU is second to none. Bellevue serves the homeless and immigrant populations of New York City. Med students get real hands-on experience and take on a lot of responsibility.
Housing isn't great--dorm style living first year and usually second year.
I also would add that the above poster is correct in saying NYU is very intense in volume of material covered. Obviously i cant truly compare to Sinai since i dont go there, but based on my impression when i interviewed there, the curriculum seems more laid back as do the students. Here we have to memorize every last detail about every little fact. The students are also a little more intense and tend to act as they follow the philosophy of play hard/party hard. Sinai students seemed more down to earth when i visited, but that could just be a biased sample from my interview day.
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I have heard the phrase that you gotta go to NYU because of Bellevue many times. But I always have some doubts about it.
Med students are here to learn the common diseases such as myocardial infarction, alcohol detox, depression, bipolar, appendicitis, stroke, stomach virus, neonatal hyperbilirubinemia, etc. and NOT to learn about digeorge syndrome after thymus transplant, chromosome 16 imbalance, porphyria, etc. I have followed patients with the latter group of diseases but they are not the bread-and-butter cases and they have only enhanced my knowledge base minimally.
When you are on call, the residents are always looking out for the bread-and-butter cases for you to follow because those are the cases you will see for the rest of your life. If they intentionally ask you to follow the zebra (i.e. the once in your lifetime kind of cases), then it might even hurt you in the long run. These rare cases are rare, as simple as that. They can probably form a small part of your training later on as residents, and even when you encounter them for only the second or third time later on as an attending, you will still need to read up to "remember" how you managed the patients before. However, they should have little if no place for you as a medical student.
Therefore, I get suspicious when people keep on espousing the greatness of Bellevue and its immense spectrum of diseases you will encounter there. Sure, some of their names might make an impression on your brain after you hear them on the round for a second or two but they are not very useful for medical student education purpose.
Most hospitals affiliated with a med school are tertiary centers and WILL have enough cases to keep you busy. I don't see why Bellevue should play such a big role in one's decision because Mount Sinai hospital, NY-Presbytarian, etc. will give you enough cases to keep you busy. In fact, Bellevue has poor ancillary services and you will get scutted out. As a medical student, you still need time to read and absorb. Doing a few scut works here and there will be good for you when you are a resident and have to do them yourself. But too much scut work will drag your knowledge base down, way down.
Med students are here to learn the common diseases such as myocardial infarction, alcohol detox, depression, bipolar, appendicitis, stroke, stomach virus, neonatal hyperbilirubinemia, etc. and NOT to learn about digeorge syndrome after thymus transplant, chromosome 16 imbalance, porphyria, etc. I have followed patients with the latter group of diseases but they are not the bread-and-butter cases and they have only enhanced my knowledge base minimally.
When you are on call, the residents are always looking out for the bread-and-butter cases for you to follow because those are the cases you will see for the rest of your life. If they intentionally ask you to follow the zebra (i.e. the once in your lifetime kind of cases), then it might even hurt you in the long run. These rare cases are rare, as simple as that. They can probably form a small part of your training later on as residents, and even when you encounter them for only the second or third time later on as an attending, you will still need to read up to "remember" how you managed the patients before. However, they should have little if no place for you as a medical student.
Therefore, I get suspicious when people keep on espousing the greatness of Bellevue and its immense spectrum of diseases you will encounter there. Sure, some of their names might make an impression on your brain after you hear them on the round for a second or two but they are not very useful for medical student education purpose.
Most hospitals affiliated with a med school are tertiary centers and WILL have enough cases to keep you busy. I don't see why Bellevue should play such a big role in one's decision because Mount Sinai hospital, NY-Presbytarian, etc. will give you enough cases to keep you busy. In fact, Bellevue has poor ancillary services and you will get scutted out. As a medical student, you still need time to read and absorb. Doing a few scut works here and there will be good for you when you are a resident and have to do them yourself. But too much scut work will drag your knowledge base down, way down.
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I think your analysis of Bellevue is completely off. First off, you can see a rotovirus, appendicitis, etc. in any hospital in america. What makes Bellevue such a great place is in addition to seeing your "bread and butter" cases you also get to see an incredible array of diseases which you do not see at many other hospitals. For instance, my sister who is a 4th year at NYU has actually seen 2 cases of leprosy (sp?) at bellevue. Most students would only get to see that in an international away elective in some 3rd world country. Bread and Butter cases although important are easy to learn as that is what you see day in and day out. What makes MGH, Hopkins, Brigham and Womens hospitals so famaous is not their ability to deal with the routine medical problem (any community hospital could do that) it is that these institutions are able to deal with any medical problem. Lastly, the fact that Bellevue is run by residents and not attendings means that the medical student has a tremendous amount of responsibilty (and thus hands on learning) as opposed to NY-Pres (Cornell) where the medical students are known to stand back and watch the attendings and residents do all the real work.
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Appolyon,
I just wanted to point out I think you read your CDC source incorrectly. Elmhurst's homepage says that "EHC serves an area of approximately one million people in one of New York City's most ethnically diverse communities." Elmhurst does not see nearly the volume that Bellevue does and it does not serve the same homeless population that Bellevue serves.
Whats funny is that at the Mt. Sinai interview the new dean for admissions comes and greets you in the morning. At my interview he confessed that he went to NYU-SOM and that although there is no hospital like Bellevue, Elmhurst is as close of a hospital with respect to diversity of patients as possible. He gives the reason that now that manhattan is soooo expensive immigrants are no longer able to afford to move there instead they move to Queens which is a lot cheaper and so that is why Elmhurst sees such a diverse pt. population.
I just wanted to point out I think you read your CDC source incorrectly. Elmhurst's homepage says that "EHC serves an area of approximately one million people in one of New York City's most ethnically diverse communities." Elmhurst does not see nearly the volume that Bellevue does and it does not serve the same homeless population that Bellevue serves.
Whats funny is that at the Mt. Sinai interview the new dean for admissions comes and greets you in the morning. At my interview he confessed that he went to NYU-SOM and that although there is no hospital like Bellevue, Elmhurst is as close of a hospital with respect to diversity of patients as possible. He gives the reason that now that manhattan is soooo expensive immigrants are no longer able to afford to move there instead they move to Queens which is a lot cheaper and so that is why Elmhurst sees such a diverse pt. population.
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Bread and butter cases are NOT easy to treat. There are many guidelines and trying to master them is difficult as it is. If instead of understanding the pathophysiological bases behind asthema, you are memorizing the treatment options behind leprosy, then I think you are getting your priority wrong as a medical student.
I am not arguing that MGH and Hopkins are not great hospitals. They treat cases where no other hospitals can treat and hence the patients are referred to these places. But that does not mean these cases are appropriate for medical students to LEARN AND MANAGE.
Other than showing off that you have seen two patients with leprosy while you are on your internal medicine rotation, what else can you do with it in the future other than practicing in 3rd world countries? Enter a internal medicine residency that goes around the US treating the paltry number of leprosy cases in this country??
Med students don't have an infinite amount of time on hand. Days are packed with things to do. So if you don't use your time wisely on the bread-and-butter cases (which you look down) but spend your time on porphyria and leprosy, then your residents have not done their best jobs teaching you.
And if you are really really confident that by going through only 2 years of clinical rotations in medical school you have already mastered everything there is to know about every bread and butter case out there, then very very good for you. Go to MGH, B&W, Hopkins, UCSF, etc. to learn the rare diseases that inflict US population. I am sure you will then be at the top of your residency graduating class.
Scut work comes with the phrase, "responsibility."
I am not arguing that MGH and Hopkins are not great hospitals. They treat cases where no other hospitals can treat and hence the patients are referred to these places. But that does not mean these cases are appropriate for medical students to LEARN AND MANAGE.
Other than showing off that you have seen two patients with leprosy while you are on your internal medicine rotation, what else can you do with it in the future other than practicing in 3rd world countries? Enter a internal medicine residency that goes around the US treating the paltry number of leprosy cases in this country??
Med students don't have an infinite amount of time on hand. Days are packed with things to do. So if you don't use your time wisely on the bread-and-butter cases (which you look down) but spend your time on porphyria and leprosy, then your residents have not done their best jobs teaching you.
And if you are really really confident that by going through only 2 years of clinical rotations in medical school you have already mastered everything there is to know about every bread and butter case out there, then very very good for you. Go to MGH, B&W, Hopkins, UCSF, etc. to learn the rare diseases that inflict US population. I am sure you will then be at the top of your residency graduating class.
Scut work comes with the phrase, "responsibility."
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I have posted the following on another thread and decided to duplicate it here.
"Just make things easy for yourself, which one cost less, is closer to your family, appears to be in better city?
if you still cannot decide, then flip a coin.
all the talk about prestige, matchlist, student competitiveness, how many go into ortho (read Georgetown thread), which one has "better" teaching hospital (read NYU vs Mt Sinai), etc. is exessive."
Granted, Harvard and hopkins can open someone's eyes and some of the top 10 schools are filled with anal classmates who study all the time. But if you are going to be miserable at Mt Sinai, you will probably be miserable at NYU. If you are going to mess up at Mt Sinai and not get that coveted ortho spot, I don't think that going to NYU in the first place would have given you that ortho spot either.
"Just make things easy for yourself, which one cost less, is closer to your family, appears to be in better city?
if you still cannot decide, then flip a coin.
all the talk about prestige, matchlist, student competitiveness, how many go into ortho (read Georgetown thread), which one has "better" teaching hospital (read NYU vs Mt Sinai), etc. is exessive."
Granted, Harvard and hopkins can open someone's eyes and some of the top 10 schools are filled with anal classmates who study all the time. But if you are going to be miserable at Mt Sinai, you will probably be miserable at NYU. If you are going to mess up at Mt Sinai and not get that coveted ortho spot, I don't think that going to NYU in the first place would have given you that ortho spot either.
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