Muslims applying to DO

[Arooga]

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I'm a Muslim applying to DO! 🙂

About the case FlaMedic mentioned, my understanding is that in severe life-threatening medical emergencies, the rules of gender interaction can be overlooked. In other words, the saving of a life takes precedence over committing what would normally be unlawful deeds. This is a basic understanding of Islamic law. I can elaborate if anyone likes.

Yes thts exactly wats said. It bothers me when people hide behind the religion for what ever they believe in when its really not the religion

 

[Arooga]

Being allowed to cover her body when in the presence of men would be reasonable in my book, and is less disruptive to the schedule than praying (which is of course also reasonable).

Also, I do think it is reasonable for a woman who wants to minimize physical contact with men to take that wish into account when deciding a specialty. I am not suggesting a Muslim woman attending medical school would be refusing to study male anatomy or to examine a male patient, but she might also be inclined not to specialize in urology, for example.

I really find the "Do things our way or get out" attitude in some of the posts irritating and bigoted.

I am glad someone feels its very irritating to be acting this way, specially if u want be a doctor. 👍

 

[ms8]

I think you should contact the school directly and ask them these questions, that would be the best thing to do. What I can check is since my cousin just graduated from there but he is a male I will ask him some of these questions. I'm pretty sure he had to have a muslim girl or two in his class with the same issue.

yeah you are right, but I don't know who to ask. I didn't know about this issue until I was about to send my deposit and read the technical standards regarding the dress code. Otherwise, I would have asked one of the student representatives during the interview. Plz do let me know what ur cousin says. Thanks

 

[Semicolon]

yeah you are right, but I don't know who to ask. I didn't know about this issue until I was about to send my deposit and read the technical standards regarding the dress code. Otherwise, I would have asked one of the student representatives during the interview. Plz do let me know what ur cousin says. Thanks

I would contact the Office of Student Affairs:

http://iris.nyit.edu/nycom/Students_Homepage.htm

That's my guess, anyway. 🙂

 

[Mohammed1989]

yeah you are right, but I don't know who to ask. I didn't know about this issue until I was about to send my deposit and read the technical standards regarding the dress code. Otherwise, I would have asked one of the student representatives during the interview. Plz do let me know what ur cousin says. Thanks

He said just to contact the school Semicolon does give a link so check that out. He said the muslim girls he had in class were able to get some accomodations. He said call and talk to them about it.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Surgeon: Well, I'm very sorry to tell you this, but your mother passed away on the operating table.
Family: Oh my goodness, what happened?
Surgeon: How the hell should I know, I was down in the chapel taking communion.
Family: What the hell? Couldn't you have waited???
Surgeon: Nah, screw her....I take communion when I want even if it is in the middle of an operation.

I hope everyone finds this as ridiculous as I do...

Yeah, really. I'm assuming that God wouldn't fret if I missed some religious observance because I was in the process of saving that person's life. In fact, I'd think God would be pretty proud of that. I'm not sure I'd respect any deity that wouldn't respect me for doing that.

And as far as the bathroom break argument goes....if your concentration is being scuttled during a surgery because your bladder is full, then I'd argue that relieving yourself is not only acceptable but essential. Pilots, for instance, don't try to fly across the Atlantic without taking bathroom breaks (although pilots have the benefit of autopilots and/or co-pilots that are capable of attending to the plane while they're in the bathroom). However, disrupting a surgery in progress to satisfy your personal religious beliefs is selfish and kind of ridiculous. I cannot envision a deity that would endorse abandoning another human in such a precarious state just so that one of his/her believers would pray to him/her at that exact moment. God can wait, believe me.

 

[megaFox]

Amen.

Yeah, really. I'm assuming that God wouldn't fret if I missed some religious observance because I was in the process of saving that person's life. In fact, I'd think God would be pretty proud of that. I'm not sure I'd respect any deity that wouldn't respect me for doing that.

And as far as the bathroom break argument goes....if your concentration is being scuttled during a surgery because your bladder is full, then I'd argue that relieving yourself is not only acceptable but essential. Pilots, for instance, don't try to fly across the Atlantic without taking bathroom breaks (although pilots have the benefit of autopilots and/or co-pilots that are capable of attending to the plane while they're in the bathroom). However, disrupting a surgery in progress to satisfy your personal religious beliefs is selfish and kind of ridiculous. I cannot envision a deity that would endorse abandoning another human in such a precarious state just so that one of his/her believers would pray to him/her at that exact moment. God can wait, believe me.

 

[Semicolon]

Yeah, really. I'm assuming that God wouldn't fret if I missed some religious observance because I was in the process of saving that person's life. In fact, I'd think God would be pretty proud of that. I'm not sure I'd respect any deity that wouldn't respect me for doing that.

And as far as the bathroom break argument goes....if your concentration is being scuttled during a surgery because your bladder is full, then I'd argue that relieving yourself is not only acceptable but essential. Pilots, for instance, don't try to fly across the Atlantic without taking bathroom breaks (although pilots have the benefit of autopilots and/or co-pilots that are capable of attending to the plane while they're in the bathroom). However, disrupting a surgery in progress to satisfy your personal religious beliefs is selfish and kind of ridiculous. I cannot envision a deity that would endorse abandoning another human in such a precarious state just so that one of his/her believers would pray to him/her at that exact moment. God can wait, believe me.

I'm afraid that I do lean more towards this stance, but more due to principle rather than practicality. Practically speaking, chances are that taking a break to pray won't do anything to the patient nor the surgical procedure. However, I think more people are annoyed by the principle of leaving a procedure for what they see as a non-essential task when a person's life is in your hands. That does sound a bit wrong, and a 15-minute break during a surgery sounds like a long break.

 

[FDNewbie]

Yeah, really. I'm assuming that God wouldn't fret if I missed some religious observance because I was in the process of saving that person's life. In fact, I'd think God would be pretty proud of that. I'm not sure I'd respect any deity that wouldn't respect me for doing that.

We're not talking about extenuating circumstances here. Emergencies are emergencies.

And as far as the bathroom break argument goes....if your concentration is being scuttled during a surgery because your bladder is full, then I'd argue that relieving yourself is not only acceptable but essential. Pilots, for instance, don't try to fly across the Atlantic without taking bathroom breaks (although pilots have the benefit of autopilots and/or co-pilots that are capable of attending to the plane while they're in the bathroom). However, disrupting a surgery in progress to satisfy your personal religious beliefs is selfish and kind of ridiculous. I cannot envision a deity that would endorse abandoning another human in such a precarious state just so that one of his/her believers would pray to him/her at that exact moment. God can wait, believe me.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I can tell you, however, that I get MUCH more anxious/disturbed/emotionally troubled when I'm about to (or in the rare & unfortunate case that I actually have) miss a prayer. In an extremely NON-judgmental way, I'd like to remind you that your level of faith and what impact it has on you is just that: specific to YOU. You can't speak to what impact it has or what role it plays on other individuals who consider themselves to be deeply religious.

Having said that, much like how you realize that you could use the bathroom, and later that you should use the bathroom, and much later that you NEED to use the bathroom...prayer time in Islam isn't some instantaneous phenomenon. Each prayer has a start and end time, in between which you are free to pray the prayer anytime. So as I said in my original post, the responsible Muslim physician will pray immediately upon the beginning of this time frame to avoid putting himself/herself in a situation of being in the middle of patient care, and the prayer time about to run out.

The problem, however, arises in one of two situations.

One, is when the Attending is scheduling cases back to back, with little to no turn-around time. Sure, usually you have a few minutes between cases (room turnaround, ensuring all pre-op paperwork is complete, Anesthesia to come get the pt., sedate & intubate the pt, the nurse to prep the pt, etc) then you walk in and do your thing. So in between cases, it is feasible to disappear real quick and pray. The PROBLEM arises, however, when Attendings just wanna bang out cases ALL day long, and end up running multiple rooms at once. So there is NO time between cases...as soon as you finish one case, you enter the other OR where the case is already underway.

The other problem is along the same premise...but it's when you're in a single really REALLY long case.

Both situations present you with a situation where you are scrubbed in for extended periods of time, because at the Attending's discretion, there is nothing else more important to do before/after/in between cases.

Now, please note the following:
- These are SCHEDULED ELECTIVE cases I'm speaking of. Nothing emergent. So this is by CHOICE.
- Likewise, if the Attending gets distracted by anything (gets hungry, has to take a phone call, has a family emergency etc), he CAN and is MORE than willing to put EVERYTHING on hold, delay the case, or even cancel it altogether to attend to what he deems as HIS priority.

So the situation that I'm complaining about is the lack of priority given to our religions requirements (understandably so, however, since it is something unfamiliar and probably altogether foreign to many non-Muslims). And this lack of priority is two-fold: both on the Attending's part as well as on the entire system's. What I mean is, the Attending can very well accomodate it (so that you don't have to chose one over the other) if he is aware of the situation and chooses to respect it. And on the second point, the system itself can very well accomodate prayer time as a whole, as the ENTIRE Muslim world (from North Africa, to the Middle East, to Asia & Indo/Pak subcontinent, to Indonesia) have this as the STANDARD. Surgeries (and pretty much all other things in life) are scheduled AROUND the 5 daily prayers.

So in short, it's all about what YOU see as YOUR priority, and important enough for YOU to accomodate. If you're a practicing Muslim and you happen to be an Attending, problem solved. If you're a junior under a non-Muslim Attending, it's hit-or-miss.

So I don't buy the argument that it's a real issue at all. It can and IS commonplace in practically 1/3 of the world, if not more. Us dealing w/ this is merely one of the many challenges faced by Muslims living amongst a non-Muslim majority, and we do our best to meet everyone halfway without compromising our principles or core beliefs.

 

[Traign]

Honestly, yes. I do have a problem with the dress code, by the way; it gives me a tremendous deal of anxiety to think about being half-naked and exposed in front of my entire medical school class and professors. Frankly I suspect that if they are able to make a concession to Muslim students that they can wear tight shirts and yoga pants then they should be able to make that concession to all women (and men too, I guess) and that would be far preferable to me.

However, I do not expect an institution to which I am voluntarily applying to change their rules in order to accomodate me and my preferences, religious or otherwise. I am going to suck it up and go through with it, and realize that probably at least 50% of the class around me is just as self-conscious and uncomfortable.

The last thing I would do is register my objections silently while signing this form (agreeing to the standards) and matriculating, then wait until I am in a position of needing to follow through with those regulations to object and expect accomodations. I would ask for those accomodations before enrolling and if they could not be met, I would indeed look elsewhere for my education. No one is forcing me to go there.

As a matter of fact, I had a problem with LECOM's ridiculous dress code (among other restrictive policies) and that played a huge role in my decision to turn down my acceptance there in favor of PCOM. I never would have enrolled at LECOM knowing their expectations up front and then expected some kind of special treatment later.

Thank you so much for stating this, I've been freaking out about the idea of OMM class, as I know I will not be comfortable exposing myself to 150 of my classmates, one physician in a private room, sure no problem but 150 of my peers is terrifying. Don't people have nightmares about this? I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that has these anxieties. I'm sure even if I was just an average person I would have the anxieties but I'm not average so they feel 10 times worse.

Do you know what other DO schools have strict dress codes, such as dressing formally just for class?

 

[drmsm]

Thank you so much for stating this, I've been freaking out about the idea of OMM class, as I know I will not be comfortable exposing myself to 150 of my classmates, one physician in a private room, sure no problem but 150 of my peers is terrifying. Don't people have nightmares about this? I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that has these anxieties. I'm sure even if I was just an average person I would have the anxieties but I'm not average so they feel 10 times worse.

Do you know what other DO schools have strict dress codes, such as dressing formally just for class?

You can call schools in regards to their dress code. LECOM is the most mentioned, because it is very formal and strict.

In regards to "exposing yourself", it's not like OMM is a porno in the making. Also, at NYCOM (where I attended for the first two years), when things are being demonstrated no one is paying attention to you and your partner, everyone is trying learn the technique all at once. There is one prof who demonstrates on a class member on stage, but this is typically a volunteer, not a compulsory student chosen by the prof. There are als fellows who help in the process. (Note: Labs are only 75 or so students at a time now, the 150 sizes were split in half in 2006).

Honestly, the OMM lab, while I'm not a huge fan of OMM (mostly the method it's taught) is what really makes you shine in some rotations/clinicals vs MD students. You have interact and touch people and places you may be squeamish about. This is reality. You have to touch patients, REAL cases/people in 3rd year, 4th year, internship and on. It may not be pleasant, comfortable or otherwise but it's gotta be done. DO students, in general, do far better with patient interaction as I have seen because we are not afraid to touch. We've had our classmates we go to the diner with palpate our pubic tubercle during lab, so touching some patient we hardly know there is old hat.

In regards to this topic and specific religions, you have to sign a form when you matriculate in regards to being able to do certain physical activities and commit to basically being a physician. If you're not comfortable with this, or your religion prohibits this, I'm sorry, but there are plenty of other job choices that don't require this. In the pre-clinical years there may be some give (ie NYCOM did allow clothing for muslim students that was a bit more comprehensive). If a student came to me on my service and I was their resident and said they couldn't touch this or that patient because of religion (I don't care which one it is), I would have a discussion with them about the field and then with their school. If it continued, I would fail them. No questions. This is a serious field and you take an oath at the end of fourth year in regards to that (inferred that you are de facto doing so as a student when you sign the matric agreement). If you can't uphold it and do everything required, then like I said, there are plenty of other opportunities for you, maybe medicine isn't one of them.

 

[lammoush09]

I don't understand why this discussion is still going on.

I think that the original question was primarily posed to other Muslims going into medicine and not every person on SDN who has an opinion/judgment about what Muslim students should be doing.

I think that we can all agree that within each religion, people practice differently, and any Muslim woman, such as myself, going into medicine is fully aware that she is going to have contact (and more) with male bodies and the same is true for any Muslim man going into medicine. I doubt there is a pre-med out there who thinks they can get thru med school without interacting extensively with the opposite sex.

Islam clearly states, and other people have said this before, that it is permissible for male doctors to treat females and vice versa. And all restrictions are put aside to save a life.

I'm a little bit tired of all the non-Muslims who have commented on this. They have no say in what a Muslim student may or may not wish to do and every student should speak to their respective school about any concerns they may have. We can each make our own choices in coordination with the school and/or hospital/residency later.

And frankly, for the Muslims and students of other faiths, if a school or hospital is completely unwilling to accommodate its students and physicians to some minimal extent, and religion is important to you, it may not be worth attending. Schools with a religious foundation, like Touro, may be more accommodating and don't forget that the Jewish system is very very compatible with Islam (No classes afternoon on Fridays, similar timing of holidays, Kosher food all over campus, etc..).

There are well known statistics that a majority of doctors have some sort of faith or believe in God (around 60%). And I think that the 60% would appreciate it if the remaining 40% kept their opinions about how we practice religion and how it affects our medical practice to themselves. When patients complain, it's another thing completely.

 

[tin0tin0tina]

I don't understand why this discussion is still going on.

I think that the original question was primarily posed to other Muslims going into medicine and not every person on SDN who has an opinion/judgment about what Muslim students should be doing.

I think that we can all agree that within each religion, people practice differently, and any Muslim woman, such as myself, going into medicine is fully aware that she is going to have contact (and more) with male bodies and the same is true for any Muslim man going into medicine. I doubt there is a pre-med out there who thinks they can get thru med school without interacting extensively with the opposite sex.

Islam clearly states, and other people have said this before, that it is permissible for male doctors to treat females and vice versa. And all restrictions are put aside to save a life.

I'm a little bit tired of all the non-Muslims who have commented on this. They have no say in what a Muslim student may or may not wish to do and every student should speak to their respective school about any concerns they may have. We can each make our own choices in coordination with the school and/or hospital/residency later.

And frankly, for the Muslims and students of other faiths, if a school or hospital is completely unwilling to accommodate its students and physicians to some minimal extent, and religion is important to you, it may not be worth attending. Schools with a religious foundation, like Touro, may be more accommodating and don't forget that the Jewish system is very very compatible with Islam (No classes afternoon on Fridays, similar timing of holidays, Kosher food all over campus, etc..).

There are well known statistics that a majority of doctors have some sort of faith or believe in God (around 60%). And I think that the 60% would appreciate it if the remaining 40% kept their opinions about how we practice religion and how it affects our medical practice to themselves. When patients complain, it's another thing completely.[/QUOte

I am sorry to break this for , but you live in the United States where Muslims make less than 2% of the population. So yeah, you have to live in this world and in this society and accept it the way it is. I am a very religious/ conservative person but come on if I am working I work I don't leave it to PRAY or to do any other religious duties. I don't go asking for accomadations to fit my lifestyle and religion knowing that the job that I have is demanding and require me to be on top of myself, and a career that would literally consume my life. The same thing, I don't go to become a stripper or a belly dancer and ask to wear a T-shirt under my suit/ uniform. If i become a stripper I go on to that field knowing that I have to take my cloth of in front of everyone. Same thing if you are going into medicine you should expect to have very little flexibility because the patient comfort and health comes before my own. It is sacrifices that we all have to make and going into that field you should be able to do it. I have lived for a good portion in my life is a religious country were religion and medicine come hand in hand. and let me tell you something. people have died, because some one needed to pray. girls got mutilated because of religion, and the health system SUCKS. so please leave your religion between you and god. and if you want to be a doctor then you need to learn how to serve others (patients) and place their comfort before your own. I am personally grossed out by the comments in that thread. and FYI I am not an atheist who don't value any religions. I am pretty religious myself, but i know how to give god and prayer its time and work and studying its own time.

 

[DrA]

I am sorry to break this for , but you live in the United States where Muslims make less than 2% of the population. So yeah, you have to live in this world and in this society and accept it the way it is. I am a very religious/ conservative person but come on if I am working I work I don't leave it to PRAY or to do any other religious duties. I don't go asking for accomadations to fit my lifestyle and religion knowing that the job that I have is demanding and require me to be on top of myself, and a career that would literally consume my life. The same thing, I don't go to become a stripper or a belly dancer and ask to wear a T-shirt under my suit/ uniform. If i become a stripper I go on to that field knowing that I have to take my cloth of in front of everyone. Same thing if you are going into medicine you should expect to have very little flexibility because the patient comfort and health comes before my own. It is sacrifices that we all have to make and going into that field you should be able to do it. I have lived for a good portion in my life is a religious country were religion and medicine come hand in hand. and let me tell you something. people have died, because some one needed to pray. girls got mutilated because of religion, and the health system SUCKS. so please leave your religion between you and god. and if you want to be a doctor then you need to learn how to serve others (patients) and place their comfort before your own. I am personally grossed out by the comments in that thread. and FYI I am not an atheist who don't value any religions. I am pretty religious myself, but i know how to give god and prayer its time and work and studying its own time.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but your comparison is laughable. The essence of a stripper job is to STRIP off your clothes. Needless to say, that is not the essence of being a physician. What I'm about to say is so elementary but clearly needs to be stated for some of you: you can find all sorts of successful physicians from varying backgrounds and beliefs; you don't need to throw away your faith to practice in the US. What you need to do is to accommodate, which is the purpose of this discussion- how to ensure fulfilling the role of physician/resident/medical student without compromising your own way of life. The fact that this is a religion issue gives every ignorant reader the green light to declare that it is outrageous. It's okay to take a bathroom break but not a prayer break when all else is equal. Says who? It's ideas like these that are failing the very concept that this country was built upon. Not long ago there was a thread about a student who is a quadriplegic but had strong enough a passion to fight for an acceptance and many of you applauded him (including me). Even while a disability such as this is clearly one of the greatest obstacles a medical student could face. Yet a Muslim student asking for minutes per day should have to "live in this society and accept it that way it is". Pretty pathetic if you ask me. There is more to a person than his occupation. Difficult for some pre-meds to grasp I know, but yes medicine is an occupation.

 

[lammoush09]

I'm sorry to break this to you, but your comparison is laughable. The essence of a stripper job is to STRIP off your clothes. Needless to say, that is not the essence of being a physician. What I'm about to say is so elementary but clearly needs to be stated for some of you: you can find all sorts of successful physicians from varying backgrounds and beliefs; you don't need to throw away your faith to practice in the US. What you need to do is to accommodate, which is the purpose of this discussion- how to ensure fulfilling the role of physician/resident/medical student without compromising your own way of life. The fact that this is a religion issue gives every ignorant reader the green light to declare that it is outrageous. It's okay to take a bathroom break but not a prayer break when all else is equal. Says who? It's ideas like these that are failing the very concept that this country was built upon. Not long ago there was a thread about a student who is a quadriplegic but had strong enough a passion to fight for an acceptance and many of you applauded him (including me). Even while a disability such as this is clearly one of the greatest obstacles a medical student could face. Yet a Muslim student asking for minutes per day should have to “live in this society and accept it that way it is”. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. There is more to a person than his occupation. Difficult for some pre-meds to grasp I know, but yes medicine is an occupation.

Thank you for this. And I'll just add that, as I stated when I originally wrote my comment, that patient care does come first and I doubt that any true Muslim would let a patient die while they fulfilled their religious duties. This is a country of great diversity and we, as a medical profession, have become more welcoming of that diversity, rather than the opposite.

And yes, the original question was posed to OTHER MUSLIMS. The title of this topic is "Muslims applying to DO"

 

[Flushot]

I'm sorry to break this to you, but your comparison is laughable. The essence of a stripper job is to STRIP off your clothes. Needless to say, that is not the essence of being a physician. What I'm about to say is so elementary but clearly needs to be stated for some of you: you can find all sorts of successful physicians from varying backgrounds and beliefs; you don't need to throw away your faith to practice in the US. What you need to do is to accommodate, which is the purpose of this discussion- how to ensure fulfilling the role of physician/resident/medical student without compromising your own way of life. The fact that this is a religion issue gives every ignorant reader the green light to declare that it is outrageous. It's okay to take a bathroom break but not a prayer break when all else is equal. Says who? It's ideas like these that are failing the very concept that this country was built upon. Not long ago there was a thread about a student who is a quadriplegic but had strong enough a passion to fight for an acceptance and many of you applauded him (including me). Even while a disability such as this is clearly one of the greatest obstacles a medical student could face. Yet a Muslim student asking for minutes per day should have to “live in this society and accept it that way it is”. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. There is more to a person than his occupation. Difficult for some pre-meds to grasp I know, but yes medicine is an occupation.

Wait, you just started this response by dismissing the stripper comparison, and now you're using a physical disability as a comparison to religious needs? I don't think either is a good argument.

I remember I had a good discussion about the bathroom break vs. prayer thing too. This might be a similar situation too; physical necessity vs. something physically optional. Maybe you disagree, but I don't think that if a hospital says that you may only leave a surgery for physical needs is being insensitive.

I also don't see why non-Muslims can't comment. I think we can learn a bit from each other's experiences and what we will and will not compromise for. At least, that's what I've taken away when I read this thread.

 

[235750]

Look, I think lammoush09 is right in that this discussion is out of control. We have binko telling us about her/his 'religion' (veganism? seriously?) and other people telling anecdotal stories about Muslim patients.

3 pages ago someone from Erie spoke about LECOM-E and prayer, and then a Muslim surgeon gave some great insight for what life is like for him. I think that's what the OP was looking for.

As for coping with OMM lab, yeah I'm with DO2Be in that I'm scared to death of showing off my old, pale-white, chubby body to my healthy and young classmates. But, we all knew what the requirements for entry were. If you are going to an osteopathic school you signed a waiver saying (in so many words) that you were ok with stripping down and having people (male & female) touch you. If if signed that "Technical requirements" agreement, the discussion is over. You bargain before a contract is made, not after. Don't sign something you're not comfortable with. End of story

So, lets move on to more traditional SDN topics like "Carribean vs DO?!?!?" or my personal favourite, "what specialties can a DO be??" 🙂

 

[Flushot]

Hmm, I don't see any real animosity in this thread. I think it's mostly dissenting opinion to what people would want in terms of respect for things like religion. I thought the posts by the Muslim surgeon and the tidbits on how each school addresses these issues was good. It doesn't sound like the thread is going down hill. Is it necessarily wrong to disagree with what certain religions ask of physicians?

 

[snurpy]

Hmm, I don't see any real animosity in this thread. I think it's mostly dissenting opinion to what people would want in terms of respect for things like religion. I thought the posts by the Muslim surgeon and the tidbits on how each school addresses these issues was good. It doesn't sound like the thread is going down hill. Is it necessarily wrong to disagree with what certain religions ask of physicians?

I've been following along this thread for a few days, and although it's a bit of a charged discussion, I would agree it's not awful yet. It's quite interesting, even for the non-Muslims. BTW, I don't think getting the opinions of some non-Muslims is bad. You're trying to ask the best way to work around a system that is apparently not conducive to your religion, so instead of labeling us all ignorant for not knowing how long / how often your prayers take, why not try educating and sharing information to work toward the best solution or alternative?

IMO regarding OMM labs, you might say you feel like a stripper because you're not comfortable in a tank top and shorts in front of your classmates, but I'm sure your non-Muslim classmates (including me) aren't exactly blindingly confident about our bodies, so please don't make it sound like we're the ones being sacrilegious. If you're serious about attending a DO school, you should realize this is an obstacle, and ask individual DO schools to see if you can get away with wearing yoga pants or something. Otherwise, apply to MD. If touching male patients / classmates is going to be a -complete- problem, which is contrary to what some other Muslims are saying about what's explicitly stated is allowed, I don't understand why you want to go into medicine. This is very unrealistic to have this accommodated in any US medical school, not because it's ignorant, but b/c it goes against American ethics to treat no matter their race, gender, sexuality, so on so forth. You respect our views, we respect yours.

Bottom line is, there are probably some accommodations and leeway to stay faithful and become a DO doctor, but if you can't be flexible, the system WILL work against you.

 

[MarieMarie]

There are well known statistics that a majority of doctors have some sort of faith or believe in God (around 60%). And I think that the 60% would appreciate it if the remaining 40% kept their opinions about how we practice religion and how it affects our medical practice to themselves. When patients complain, it's another thing completely.

I think the last thing I expected to see in this thread is historically repressed religious minority invoking tyranny of the majority.

Edit: Repressed in the United States.

 

[FormerCorpsman]

I think the last thing I expected to see in this thread is historically repressed religious minority invoking tyranny of the majority.

Edit: Repressed in the United States.

I do not know if I would label Islam as an oppressed religious minority. Currently, about 6 billion people live on the earth. However, 1.5 billion of them are Muslim.

 

[Octagonecology]

Is Islam the most popular religion worldwide? I'm justs curious as the ratio of Muslim to other religions. I always assumed that Islam was the most popular worldwide.

Corpmen, did you learn Arabic at BYU or are you of Arabic descent? Just curious cuz your mdapps thing says caucasion but seems like you might speak Arabic pretty well...

 

[FormerCorpsman]

Is Islam the most popular religion worldwide? I'm justs curious as the ratio of Muslim to other religions. I always assumed that Islam was the most popular worldwide.

Corpmen, did you learn Arabic at BYU or are you of Arabic descent? Just curious cuz your mdapps thing says caucasion but seems like you might speak Arabic pretty well...

I am currently on a study abroad still trying to speed up my Arabic skills. About the ratio to other religions, I am not quite sure. But you stated that Islam is one of the most popular religions world wide, which is correct.

I do not have any Arab descendants, but I have plenty of Comanche and Cherokee descendants.

 

[The Poet Sings]

I am currently on a study abroad still trying to speed up my Arabic skills. About the ratio to other religions, I am not quite sure. But you stated that Islam is one of the most popular religions world wide, which is correct.

I do not have any Arab descendants, but I have plenty of Comanche and Cherokee descendants.

...ancestors?

 

[FormerCorpsman]

...ancestors?

Thanks for the correction. Yes I have many Native American Ancestors. Sorry about that.

 

[The Poet Sings]

Thanks for the correction. Yes I have many Native American Ancestors. Sorry about that.

part of me was hoping that maybe you were just quite good at procreating 😛. but good job broadening your horizons and learning a language not in your family history. everyone should make an effort. not that this is really relevant to anything. whoops!

 

[FormerCorpsman]

Well learning Arabic is no walk in the park. I think Chinese is a breeze compared to Arabic. Sometime I just want to beat my head against the wall. In Arabic you have to learn the written language called Fusha and a regional dialect.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Bump.

I would like to know if Muslim students at LECOM LDP are able to do Friday prayers. That question was brought up, but I don't think it was answered.