MWU-AZ’s reputation?

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It expensive, but i think it comparable to a lot of out of state school cost. For example, Musc, a public school would cost the same as Midwestern as an oos student. Unless you get instate or scholarship, expect to pay at least 400k wherever you go.
 
I scratch my head whenever someone says MWU-AZ has a “great” clinical program. What is great, doing five more root canals than another school? It is also outrageously expensive and they try to cover it up with all the fancy tech none of their graduates will even be able to afford upon graduation
 
a couple of my interviewers at Colorado, Michigan and, UCSF asked me where else I applied and told them MWU and they all said their clinical program is amazing and that they have been working with them to incorporate some of the stuff MWU does at their school
 
surfline said:
I scratch my head whenever someone says MWU-AZ has a “great” clinical program. What is great, doing five more root canals than another school? It is also outrageously expensive and they try to cover it up with all the fancy tech none of their graduates will even be able to afford upon graduation
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MWU students also don’t spend 3 hours with one patient like most schools. During our tour a D4 student was doing sinus surgery and the oral surgeon was just watching
 
Not defending MWU-AZ outrageous COA, but as you can see from the attachment, there are many schools that rank higher than them. Some of them are even public schools, but i dont see anyone complaining and bitching about it. Hell, there even a public school on that list that cost almost 400k for instsate. MWU is expensive no doubt, but that just the way the game is set up nowadays. At least with them, you will get more clinical training compare to most schools.
 

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dentman7712 said:
Not defending MWU-AZ outrageous COA, but as you can see from the attachment, there are many schools that rank higher than them. Some of them are even public schools, but i dont see anyone complaining and bitching about it. Hell, there even a public school on that list that cost almost 400k for instsate. MWU is expensive no doubt, but that just the way the game is set up nowadays. At least with them, you will get more clinical training compare to most schools.
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That number seems pretty low. I estimated the COA, including interest and cost of living, at $525k. If you live modestly you could probably land somewhere just over $500k. However, I didn't take into account tuition hikes every year either

At least some people tend to agree that they are putting good use to that ridiculous tuition. I interviewed at a couple of very pricy dental schools on that list and was sort of shocked at the state of the facilities. At least the deans drove luxury cars
 
Like others have said. Their clinical program is top notch and blew away all the other schools I interviewed at in that aspect, but the price was way too high to justify me choosing it over a state school.
 
Life of Pablo said:
This sounds borderline unethical.
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I mean the oral surgeon must have consulted with people above him and other factors. They mentioned that for students interested in any field, they can go spend more time in that department and assist with procedure and from there on if you show skills and the dentist trusts you they will let you do more

You mentioned that Penn new dean is trying to improve Penn clinical program. At his or her next talk they will probably be like "We are getting help from MWU and using their model" lol
 
Faux said:
Isn't that how it is in AEGD/GPR as well?
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At an AEGD/GPR you are a licensed dentist, not a dental student. There is a difference and it’s a big difference. Aka you’re a doctor in one situation and not in another.

princeafrica said:
You mentioned that Penn new dean is trying to improve Penn clinical program. At his or her next talk they will probably be like "We are getting help from MWU and using their model" lol
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Trust me, it will not be through doing sinus surgery while the OMFS attending sits in the corner and twiddle their thumbs. Assisting with these procedures is way different than what you described.
 
Life of Pablo said:
At an AEGD/GPR you are a licensed dentist, not a dental student. There is a difference and it’s a big difference. Aka you’re a doctor in one situation and not in another.


Trust me, it will not be through doing sinus surgery while the OMFS attending sits in the corner and twiddle their thumbs. Assisting with these procedures is way different than what you described.
Click to expand...

The oral surgeon was standing next to her and he told us that she has been in the oral surgery department assisting and showing interest for a while and that she was currently doing most of the procedure herself with guidance. Of course he wasn't standing in the corner on his iPad like anesthesiologists haha.

Idk bro I just dropped my jaw and then remembered their tuition and moved on
 
Life of Pablo said:
At an AEGD/GPR you are a licensed dentist, not a dental student. There is a difference and it’s a big difference. Aka you’re a doctor in one situation and not in another.


Trust me, it will not be through doing sinus surgery while the OMFS attending sits in the corner and twiddle their thumbs. Assisting with these procedures is way different than what you described.
Click to expand...

Just because you have a dental license doesn’t mean you’re any more competent at doing procedures you haven’t done before. What’s the difference between A D4 that’s doing a sinus lift for the first time and a dentist that’s been practicing for a few months doing a sinus lift for the first time?

Dental school is the only time in your career where you can work under someone else’s license and not get burned for your mistakes.
If your school gives you an opportunity to do a more advanced procedure why not do it?
 
In the real world ... General dentists do not perform sinus lifts. Midwestern has the reputation for graduating super dentists who are blurring the line that separates general dentistry and the specialities.
 
dentman7712 said:
The Most Ridiculously Expensive Dental Schools Thread
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A lot of those numbers are wrong with regards to California schools because they underestimate their cost of living. For example, at my UoP interview they said the cost of living they list is with the assumption that 3 people are living in a 2 person apartment. So, if you're like me and don't want to be living in the living room or closet of an apartment, your cost of living is probably much much higher than what they list.

Same goes for USC/UCLA
 
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2TH MVR said:
In the real world ... General dentists do not perform sinus lifts. Midwestern has the reputation for graduating super dentists who are blurring the line that separates general dentistry and the specialities.
Click to expand...

HAHA YES. One of the dentists I shadow teaches residents part time at a residency and he brags a ton about sinus lift procedures and the complex things they do. I finally asked him how often he does these kinds of things in practice and he said he doesn't and most of his students never will!
 
Life of Pablo said:
A lot of those numbers are wrong with regards to California schools because they underestimate their cost of living. For example, at my UoP interview they said the cost of living they list is with the assumption that 3 people are living in a 2 person apartment. So, if you're like me and don't want to be living in the living room or closet of an apartment, your cost of living is probably much much higher than what they list.

Same goes of USC/UCLA
Click to expand...
So you're saying those numbers should even be higher? Where is the hate for those schools then?
 
2TH MVR said:
In the real world ... General dentists do not perform sinus lifts. Midwestern has the reputation for graduating super dentists who are blurring the line that separates general dentistry and the specialities.
Click to expand...
The general dentist that i worked for performed sinus lift. Even though it pretty rare, he has done it before. If you are properly trained and confident in your abilities, who to say you are not allow to?
 
dentman7712 said:
The general dentist that i worked for performed sinus lift. Even though it pretty rare, he has done it before. If you are properly trained and confident in your abilities, who to say you are not allow to?
Click to expand...

PROPERLY TRAINED. Can you define properly trained? I get it. In rural areas where there are no specialty services and/or they are too far to travel to .... a super dentist properly trained can do their community a favor by treating all areas of dentistry. Remote areas (Indian reservations, Eskimo villages in Alaska, etc etc) benefit from a super dentist that can do these specialty procedures. But in the average, typical city with plenty of dentists and specialists .... this is not a common occurrance.

LIABILITY, MALPRACTICE. When you perform procedures that are outside the AVERAGE, TYPICAL dental school curriculum and procedures that are typically done by experienced, properly trained specialists ... you are opening yourself up to unnecessary possible liability. Even if your have performed dozens of those procedures ... all it takes is ONE bad outcome and your "properly trained" background will come into question.

Malpractice suits are real. They will ruin your day, month, year. I've been through it. Trust me. You NEVER want to be in that position. I was a cocky young orthodontist treating patients like I was a god and I was untouchable. One day I was sued. Of course it was frivolous and I had done nothing wrong. Didn't matter. I was dragged through the dirt for 12 long months. The case was predicatably settled since it was the "tactical" thing to do. After that experience. I treat EVERY patient as a possible litigant. I don't OPEN myself up to possible negligence.
 
dentman7712 said:
The general dentist that i worked for performed sinus lift. Even though it pretty rare, he has done it before. If you are properly trained and confident in your abilities, who to say you are not allow to?
Click to expand...
Just because a general dentist performs these procedures doesn’t mean he/she should. There are specialists for a reason, and they don’t exist to clean up the mistakes that overly confident general dentists make.

I sat through a 2 hour presentation by the head of an OMFS program where he presented case after case of all the botched implants he had to fix that led to nerve damage. Who were the main perpetrators? General dentists.
 
2TH MVR said:
PROPERLY TRAINED. Can you define properly trained? I get it. In rural areas where there are no specialty services and/or they are too far to travel to .... a super dentist properly trained can do their community a favor by treating all areas of dentistry. Remote areas (Indian reservations, Eskimo villages in Alaska, etc etc) benefit from a super dentist that can do these specialty procedures. But in the average, typical city with plenty of dentists and specialists .... this is not a common occurrance.

LIABILITY, MALPRACTICE. When you perform procedures that are outside the AVERAGE, TYPICAL dental school curriculum and procedures that are typically done by experienced, properly trained specialists ... you are opening yourself up to unnecessary possible liability. Even if your have performed dozens of those procedures ... all it takes is ONE bad outcome and your "properly trained" background will come into question.

Malpractice suits are real. They will ruin your day, month, year. I've been through it. Trust me. You NEVER want to be in that position. I was a cocky young orthodontist treating patients like I was a god and I was untouchable. One day I was sued. Of course it was frivolous and I had done nothing wrong. Didn't matter. I was dragged through the dirt for 12 long months. The case was predicatably settled since it was the "tactical" thing to do. After that experience. I treat EVERY patient as a possible litigant. I don't OPEN myself up to possible negligence.
Click to expand...
Maybe i should of added that he did a 2 years GPR training focusing on surgery. Even though his title is still a general dentist, he mainly does oral surgery procedures. That what i meant when i say properly trained. But i agreed with what you're saying.
 
Life of Pablo said:
A lot of those numbers are wrong with regards to California schools because they underestimate their cost of living. For example, at my UoP interview they said the cost of living they list is with the assumption that 3 people are living in a 2 person apartment. So, if you're like me and don't want to be living in the living room or closet of an apartment, your cost of living is probably much much higher than what they list.

Same goes of USC/UCLA
Click to expand...
Not really- just calculated it out for UCLA IS the same way they did (no tuition/housing increases) with living in university housing (which is sharing a 2bd/2bt apt with 1 other student, utilities included in rent), w/o having a car, and not spending money excessively/splitting consumables with your housemate. $300 monthly for food, personal items, recreation, gets you a number that's $12k less than what's on there, and $500 monthly gives you the same number on that thread. The numbers will vary depending on what type of university housing you get though, but I think it's a pretty good estimate.
dentman7712 said:
So you're saying those numbers should even be higher? Where is the hate for those schools then?
Click to expand...
I think it all depends on your situation. That thread is good for ballpark estimates, but you should definitely create your own personal COA list for the schools you are accepted to to get a more accurate idea 🙂 For example, you may not get into university housing, and would have to pay more, and that would really change your numbers up.

I will say though that the list is based off of 2016 numbers, and a newer one for 2019/2020 numbers should probably be made. Would/should be a community effort, imo. Thoughts?
 
artist2022 said:
Not really- just calculated it out for UCLA IS the same way they did (no tuition/housing increases) with living in university housing (which is sharing a 2bd/2bt apt with 1 other student, utilities included in rent), w/o having a car, and not spending money excessively/splitting consumables with your housemate. $300 monthly for food, personal items, recreation, gets you a number that's $12k less than what's on there, and $500 monthly gives you the same number on that thread. The numbers will vary depending on what type of university housing you get though, but I think it's a pretty good estimate.

I think it all depends on your situation. That thread is good for ballpark estimates, but you should definitely create your own personal COA list for the schools you are accepted to to get a more accurate idea 🙂 For example, you may not get into university housing, and would have to pay more, and that would really change your numbers up.

I will say though that the list is based off of 2016 numbers, and a newer one for 2019/2020 numbers should probably be made. Would/should be a community effort, imo. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

$300 on food/personal expenses is insanity. My school is in Florida and they still give us $40,000 on living expenses a year, with most people not being able to live without a roommate on that amount. CA schools budgeting 25k on living expenses a year are cooking the books.
 
Here's my problem with Midwestern (and USC as well) - ALL of their programs are ridiculously expensive (not just dental); more so than any other school. This just leads me to believe that school administration is concerned with lining their pockets with students' loan/tuition money with no regard for putting thousands of students in financial servitude to the government. On top of that, Midwestern has zero name recognition to show for it (unlike, let's say UPenn).
 
allantois said:
Here's my problem with Midwestern (and USC as well) - ALL of their programs are ridiculously expensive (not just dental); more so than any other school. This just leads me to believe that school administration is concerned with lining their pockets with students' loan/tuition money with no regard for putting thousands of students in financial servitude to the government. On top of that, Midwestern has zero name recognition to show for it (unlike, let's say UPenn).
Click to expand...

So you are saying Penn and Columbia admin can line their pockets more because of their name recognition? Oh and these big name recognition ion are started by their undergrad schools
 
allantois said:
$300 on food/personal expenses is insanity. My school is in Florida and they still give us $40,000 on living expenses a year, with most people not being able to live without a roommate on that amount. CA schools budgeting 25k on living expenses a year are cooking the books.
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I don't think $300-$500 a month is unreasonable, because it's taught me where I can really cut costs- not eat out and instead meal prep, use Costco to buy things in bulk, etc. 3k a month is ridiculous, but that's a discussion for another thread not this one lol
 
artist2022 said:
I don't think $300-$500 a month is unreasonable, because it's taught me where I can really cut costs- not eat out and instead meal prep, use Costco to buy things in bulk, etc. 3k a month is ridiculous, but that's a discussion for another thread not this one lol
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I agree. Been living on $400 for food since undergrad.
 
allantois said:
$300 on food/personal expenses is insanity. My school is in Florida and they still give us $40,000 on living expenses a year, with most people not being able to live without a roommate on that amount. CA schools budgeting 25k on living expenses a year are cooking the books.
Click to expand...
You guys must not know how to be frugal then.
 
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