My Black Skin Makes My White Coat Vanish

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Doesnt only happen to doctors, my gf is black and a newly minted Nurse Practicitioner and she tells me that after she introduces herself, checks the patienty history etc... The patients always ask her, so when am I going to see a nurse (she works in med surg. where patiently mostly work with nurses). They always expect her to be a tech. or cna. But one thing I love about my gf, eventhough she is as minority as it gets, she never played the black card, never used her minority status to get her places, and never thought she was entitled to anything because of her color. I think this also helped her become one of the brightest people I know. Her working hard approach vs waiting for hand me outs attitude made her a 4.0 in grad school and soon to be first DNP (doctor of nursing) at my school. One thing I give her grief for, she will be graduating with 80K of loans and I keep telling her if she just applied for minority scholarships/grants etc... she will so have graduated undergrad and grad school with no debt. She sometimes regrets it, but mostly shrugs it off and says "I will be making good money and will pay off my debt with my hard work"

I admire my baby!:thumbup:

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Your girlfriend is quite the admirable person, because she works hard. But I think its a common misconception that everyone plays the black or hispanic card. We apply like everyone else, and it is the admissions committee/medical school who decides 1) whether we are a minority or not 2) whether they want to give diversity scholarships. The applicant has no say in the process. From your posting history it appears like you think that minority applicants are waiting with tin cups outside the doors of adcomm officess for handouts. I would hope that you have a better view of your future classmates than that. Because people don't fit into little neat sterotypes.
 
Your girlfriend is quite the admirable person, because she works hard. But I think its a common misconception that everyone plays the black or hispanic card. We apply like everyone else, and it is the admissions committee/medical school who decides 1) whether we are a minority or not 2) whether they want to give diversity scholarships. The applicant has no say in the process. From your posting history it appears like you think that minority applicants are waiting with tin cups outside the doors of adcomm officess for handouts. I would hope that you have a better view of your future classmates than that. Because people don't fit into little neat sterotypes.
1.) Thanks, I know my gf is awesome. I love her personality so much.
2.) I dont think of what your saying about ME personally stereotyping minories in any negative way is accurate, I am a minority myself (not a race that is considered minority by ADCOMS) and disadvantaged. It's that we all know that special admissions standards are given to those described as minorties at med schools. I also unfortunately had experiences and we all know it happens that at times minorities use the race card a bit much that may lead to racism. I had a few guys in my class back in undergrad that everytime they got a grade in one of our essay classes (that was somewhat subjective grading), if they didnt get the grade they want they would call the professor racist. I also had a friend who graduated undergrad with me, awesome girl, was a PA for a while, then I saw her recently she told me she was applying to med school. She has a 3.2, and a 7, 7, 8 on her MCAT. I told her good luck, it is going to be a challenge to get in with those scores, as friends she joked (somewhat not really joking) saying I am a black female, I will get in, what you know she was right, 2 weeks ago she got into med school. Now consider the same application by a non minority, the person wouldnt get admitted, or even consider special programs such as the University of Michigan law School that gives you 20 or so points on their rating scale automatically for being black/hispanic which caused an uproar that went to the supreme court. U of M won and can now overtly say we are using minority status as a means of admissions.

Please dont BS me, yourself or others and pretend that someone's minority status didnt have a huge role in your or others application and give them a huge advantage. Personally as I said before, the days of repressed races or using the race card not to get ahead are gone, we now have a black president (doesnt mean racism is all but eliminated in america, it just indicated regardless of your race if you work hard and are intellient enough you can be anything you want regardless of your race EVEN PRESIDENT).

At times there special advantages given to minorities causes resentment from other students who couldnt get in with higher stats just because they werent minorities, it also builds suspicion on current med school students, residents, etc... who all think that this minority got in just because of his/her color and are probably not that bright. I am not sure if anyone heard of a girl, I think she posted on the pre-med/med forum back in the days saying during one of her residency interviews she overheard one of the Attending telling another, there goes another black girl who is trying to use her URM status to try to take a spot of a "qualified" student. This biased/stereotype views carry on from medical students all the way to attendings as it did with this guy at times.

I think those who are true to themselves would agree with me. I think URM shouldnt be based on color/race, but if one is disadvantaged whether they are first generation, financially disadvantaged, hardships in life, etc... REGARDLESS of what color or race you are. I am being real, pointing these things out because when one is accepted based on their race or if it played a huge role as we know it does, this causes a huge stereotype by others doubting the real intelligence or qualification of that entire race. A true intelligent fully secure applicant such as my gf and roomate (black) agree all the way, others who are may be racists themselves (all races can be racist) or or ignorant would say, oo your saying that because your racist, and you stereotype bla bla... it's the insecure ones with this type of attitude that screws it up for the entire race and causes such stereotypes not by me, but by others who may end up colleagues be it in medical school or any other professional school/profession.

I was reading this post in the pre-dent forum http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=580186

Poster one says "
I hope since we are URM it'll give a little leanway on admissions :thumbup: since we are far and few between!

Representing Tejas.!


One person ONLY one minority responded right after he wrote it and impressed me so much with her response saying:
Poster 2:
^^I hope not, because then everyone will just look at us and be like 'oh you only got in b/c you're URM'. Um no, I got in because I'm qualified thanks. (also it's "leeway" not "leanway")

Poster one represents the type of person that wants his/her status to get into a school, poster two who replied to him refers to those who have a personality like my gf and roomate who understand how this type of behavior can lead to the stereotypes/racism by others I explained in my post.
 
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Your girlfriend is quite the admirable person, because she works hard. But I think its a common misconception that everyone plays the black or hispanic card. We apply like everyone else, and it is the admissions committee/medical school who decides 1) whether we are a minority or not 2) whether they want to give diversity scholarships. The applicant has no say in the process. From your posting history it appears like you think that minority applicants are waiting with tin cups outside the doors of adcomm officess for handouts. I would hope that you have a better view of your future classmates than that. Because people don't fit into little neat sterotypes.
1.) Thanks, I know my gf is awesome. I love her personality so much.
2.) I dont think of what your saying stereotyping minories, I am a minority myself (not a race that is considered minority by ADCOMS) and disadvantaged. It's that we all know that special admissions standards are given to those described as minorties at med schools. I also unfortunately and we all know it happens that at times minorities use he race card a bit much that may lead to racism. I had a few guys in my class back in undergrad that everytime they got a grade in one of our essay classes (that was somewhat subjective grading), if they didnt get the grade they want they would call the professor racist. I also had a friend who graduated undergrad with me, awesome girl, was a PA for a while, then I saw her recently she told me she was applying to med school. She has a 3.2, and a 7, 7, 8 on her MCAT. I told her good luck, it is going to be a challenge to get in with those scores, as friends she joked (somewhat not really joking) saying I am a black female, I will get in, what you know she was right, 2 weeks ago she got into med school. Now consider the same application by a non minority, the person wouldnt get admitted, or even consider special programs such as the University of Michigan law School that gives you 20 or so points on their rating scale automatically for being black/hispanic which caused an uproar that went to the supreme court. U of M won and can now overtly say we are using minority status as a means of admissions.
Please dont BS me, yourself or others and pretend that someones minority status didnt have a huge role in your or others application and give them a huge advantage. Personally as I said before, the days of repressed races or using the race card not to get ahead are gone, we have a black president. At times there special advantages given to minorities causes resentment from other students who couldnt get in with higher stats just because they werent minorities, it also builds suspicion on current med school students, residents, etc... who all think that this minority got in just because of his/her color and are probably not that bright. I am not sure if anyone heard of a girl, I think she posted on here back in the days saying during one of her residency interviews she overheard one of the Attending telling another, there goes another black girl who is trying to use her URM minority to try to take a spot of a "qualified" student.
I think those who are true to themselves would agree. I think URM shouldnt be based on color/race, but if one is disadvantaged whether they are first generation, financially disadvantaged, hardships in life, etc... regardless of what color or race you are. I am being real pointing these things out because when one is accepted base on their race or if it played a huge role as we know it does, this causes a huge stereotype by others of the real intelligence or qualification of that entire race. A true intelligent fully secure applicant such as my gf and roomate (black) agree all the way, others who are less intelligent or are racist themselves would say oo your saying that because your racist, and you stereotype bla bla, its the insecure ones with this type of attitude that screws it up for the entire race and causes such stereotypes not by me, but by others who may end up colleagues be it in medical school or any other professional school/profession.
 
Just to remind everyone: The Underrepresented in Healthcare Forum is not intended for discussions of affirmative action. The Sociopolitical Forum is the appropriate forum for such discussions.
 
Just to remind everyone: The Underrepresented in Healthcare Forum is not intended for discussions of affirmative action. The Sociopolitical Forum is the appropriate forum for such discussions.
anytime a real discussion is made the thread is either closed, warned, or some other headache, gezzz:thumbdown: You cant be selective on what you consider the right place to post or not as long as it is medically related, it just seems that sometimes mods let their personal feelings get into a thread and if they dont like what they hear it is either moved or warned:mad:
 
anytime a real discussion is made the thread is either closed, warned, or some other headache, gezzz:thumbdown: You cant be selective on what you consider the right place to post or not as long as it is medically related, it just seems that sometimes mods let their personal feelings get into a thread and if they dont like what they hear it is either moved or warned:mad:

It is not my rule; It is defined in the guidelines for this forum. Please refer to the first thread when this forum was created:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=381758

"There are three comments I'd like to make about this forum. First, this forum is not for discussion of AA; to discuss affirmative action, please use the sociopolitical forum."
 
Where can I buy some RACE cards? Sounds like a fun game to play during the holidays. I'm sick of UNO and spades. :rolleyes:
 
1.) Thanks, I know my gf is awesome. I love her personality so much.
2.) I dont think of what your saying stereotyping minories, I am a minority myself (not a race that is considered minority by ADCOMS) and disadvantaged. It's that we all know that special admissions standards are given to those described as minorties at med schools. I also unfortunately and we all know it happens that at times minorities use he race card a bit much that may lead to racism. I had a few guys in my class back in undergrad that everytime they got a grade in one of our essay classes (that was somewhat subjective grading), if they didnt get the grade they want they would call the professor racist. I also had a friend who graduated undergrad with me, awesome girl, was a PA for a while, then I saw her recently she told me she was applying to med school. She has a 3.2, and a 7, 7, 8 on her MCAT. I told her good luck, it is going to be a challenge to get in with those scores, as friends she joked (somewhat not really joking) saying I am a black female, I will get in, what you know she was right, 2 weeks ago she got into med school. Now consider the same application by a non minority, the person wouldnt get admitted, or even consider special programs such as the University of Michigan law School that gives you 20 or so points on their rating scale automatically for being black/hispanic which caused an uproar that went to the supreme court. U of M won and can now overtly say we are using minority status as a means of admissions.
Please dont BS me, yourself or others and pretend that someones minority status didnt have a huge role in your or others application and give them a huge advantage. Personally as I said before, the days of repressed races or using the race card not to get ahead are gone, we have a black president. At times there special advantages given to minorities causes resentment from other students who couldnt get in with higher stats just because they werent minorities, it also builds suspicion on current med school students, residents, etc... who all think that this minority got in just because of his/her color and are probably not that bright. I am not sure if anyone heard of a girl, I think she posted on here back in the days saying during one of her residency interviews she overheard one of the Attending telling another, there goes another black girl who is trying to use her URM minority to try to take a spot of a "qualified" student.
I think those who are true to themselves would agree. I think URM shouldnt be based on color/race, but if one is disadvantaged whether they are first generation, financially disadvantaged, hardships in life, etc... regardless of what color or race you are. I am being real pointing these things out because when one is accepted base on their race or if it played a huge role as we know it does, this causes a huge stereotype by others of the real intelligence or qualification of that entire race. A true intelligent fully secure applicant such as my gf and roomate (black) agree all the way, others who are less intelligent or are racist themselves would say oo your saying that because your racist, and you stereotype bla bla, its the insecure ones with this type of attitude that screws it up for the entire race and causes such stereotypes not by me, but by others who may end up colleagues be it in medical school or any other professional school/profession.

:thumbdown: Words spoken by an ill-informed person... gotta love it! Perhaps you should Youtube "Tim Wise" and listen to his discussion on U of M and AA. Maybe then you will begin to understand BOTH sides of the issue, although I doubt that you will ever truly understand. By the way, having a "black" gf or a "black" friend doesn't make you any more understanding than the next person.
~Peace-n-Love~
 
This article is old (published in 2006) but I just found out about it, so I figure others will read it for the first time too: http://www.newsweek.com/id/45912/page/1

Now that black women have pretty much overtaken black men in number in medical school I wonder how long it will take for the perception to change.

Great article, but it's really sad. It sort of killed my morale about becoming a physician. :( It brings tears to my eyes when I think of young black children exhibiting prejudice towards their own race, but I can never blame the child for such behavior.
 
Great article, but it's really sad. It sort of killed my morale about becoming a physician. :( It brings tears to my eyes when I think of young black children exhibiting prejudice towards their own race, but I can never blame the child for such behavior.



No, no, please don't say that! We need you out there! For every bad experience there will be 100 young minority girls or boys who will see you and say wow, if they can do it so can I...
 
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No, no, please don't say that! We need you out there! For every bad experience there will be 100 young minority girls or boys who will see you and say wow, if they can do it so can I...

LOL... Oh I've come to far to give up now. I'm hanging in there! :p
 
LOL... Oh I've come to far to give up now. I'm hanging in there! :p

haha, I don't think that I realized that you were already in med school, by the tone of your post or maybe I just perceived it the wrong way. which year of med school are you in?
 
Wow, I feel bad for the guy in the article =(

I think a very funny thing is that growing up in Canada, I've never seen that happen, but coming to the States, this seems to be prevalent in some of the southern states, I wouldn't say west/midwest/New England states so much though. I'm very disappointed though for the guy in the article, that's disheartening. I also can't believe that a young child would do this, that says something about the way that those parents are perpetuating their own stereotypes...

Fortunately I think that eventually this will dissipate.

Don't let archaic ideologies get you down! :)

By the way, I got here on some random search for another article... I saw the title and just had to read it, lol.
 
Wow... to me, that is just ridiculous. I have white skin, but I've never been intimidated by a black-skinned doctor. In fact, my family physician is dark-skinned AND female. Personally, I ADMIRE professional people who are willing to stand up and become what they dream of being, regardless of gender or skin color. Anyone seen Foreman on House??? He's a darn good doctor. An ***, to be sure, but a good doctor. ;-) And yeah... I am aware that he's a fictional character. :laugh:
Not to get off topic, but even though I never really agreed with Obama on a lot of things, I always respected his professionalism and willingness to be an example for those people who think that they can use their skin color as an excuse, either way. I know that we all face our own challenges, but don't tell me that it's impossible when you see black, female, or both as billionaires and some of the most influential people in the world. We all face prejudice, some more than others... but don't ever use it as an excuse to lay down and cry uncle.
 
You guys know I don't respond too much, because I'm pre-vet, but I read quite a bit. I've loved reading the responses on this thread.

I think I've said this, before...somewhere, maybe. As an AA female looking to get into vet med, it is a lonely, lonely road.

It is definitely the same way for vet med, though I've been surprised by a few clients that will talk to me as though I'm the veterinarian. ( I'm no spring chicken, and I've been told I have an authoritarian [read teacher here] voice. :D) The majority of what I see, while working ( the requirements for vet school are mandatory work with a veterinarian in more than one area [large animal, small animal, oncology, toxicology, etc...]), is a questioning of why I am in the room, let alone touching their animal.

Also, it's a lot harder to present yourself professionally when the family cat is looking to make you into a pin cushion.

When I get my DVM, I may have the occasional luxury of a white coat.

I know there will always be a bit of that questioning, and I am up to the task, whether I'm in a set of coveralls and boots, jeans and a t-shirt, or a suit.
 
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I noticed that an African American classmate of mine (I am white) is often questioned when she goes into the OR. Nobody has ever asked me to show an ID, it is assumed that I belong there.

It must be difficult to face things like that every day! I feel so naive because I really didn't realize racism/ bias exists to such an extent, even today.
 
This article is old (published in 2006) but I just found out about it, so I figure others will read it for the first time too: http://www.newsweek.com/id/45912/page/1

Now that black women have pretty much overtaken black men in number in medical school I wonder how long it will take for the perception to change.

From the article: I remember talking to one of the white, male attending physicians in my training program after he witnessed one such encounter. "Listen," he said, trying to comfort me, "I can walk in wearing a T shirt and jeans and I'll always be seen as the doctor, even without an introduction. You will not."

I'm sorry, but this comment wouldn't comfort me one bit. If someone [especially a white male] said this to me, I would probably be really, really angry, actually. "Thanks for reminding me of your privilege, mister white, male doctor."

That reminds me of one thing I'll need to work on as I enter medical school and the medical profession: my anger and resentment. I need to not resent white people for the privilege they get every day. It's not [exactly] their fault, but argh! ...and for me, it's not just white people, but also heterosexual, gender-normative people, as well. Undergrad has taught me how to prove myself well, but maybe medical school will teach me now to like it?
 
I noticed that an African American classmate of mine (I am white) is often questioned when she goes into the OR. Nobody has ever asked me to show an ID, it is assumed that I belong there.

It must be difficult to face things like that every day! I feel so naive because I really didn't realize racism/ bias exists to such an extent, even today.


Yeah, well anybody that believes that racism is gone or has even taken a back seat is walking around with their eyes closed. It's not the outright KKK type of racism anymore (even though that's still out there), but there is a more subtle form of racism that still lingers. Ever had somebody cross the street to avoid you? Or had a lady clutch a purse when you walk by? Ever had a teacher doubt your abilities without any real reason to? These are just a few things that have happened to me that aren't necessarily intentional and are probably more subliminal than anything. I've also experienced a lot of other dumb crap that is much more outlandish and intentionally cruel. But it's the subliminal stuff that gets to me because those people don't think they're racist whereas the people who will come straight out and call you a racial epithet are willing to outwardly admit that they don't like you which at least lets you know where you stand. Good times....
 
From the article: I remember talking to one of the white, male attending physicians in my training program after he witnessed one such encounter. "Listen," he said, trying to comfort me, "I can walk in wearing a T shirt and jeans and I'll always be seen as the doctor, even without an introduction. You will not."

I'm sorry, but this comment wouldn't comfort me one bit. If someone [especially a white male] said this to me, I would probably be really, really angry, actually. "Thanks for reminding me of your privilege, mister white, male doctor."

That reminds me of one thing I'll need to work on as I enter medical school and the medical profession: my anger and resentment. I need to not resent white people for the privilege they get every day. It's not [exactly] their fault, but argh! ...and for me, it's not just white people, but also heterosexual, gender-normative people, as well. Undergrad has taught me how to prove myself well, but maybe medical school will teach me now to like it?


this is a little bit of a digression, but does anyone else have parents who want you to go to a "prestigious" medical school for this very reason. if you lurk on these boards long enough, you will innundated with posts about how unimportant or insignificant the ranking or prestige of a US allopathic medical school is. but a main reason my parents want me to go to a harvard, or a yale, or a penn is not because of the superior education i will recieve, but because of the public's perception of me, as a black male and my level of education. it goes without saying that the issue the black guy in the article had to face is not one that is of concern of your average vanilla (to quote LizzyM) primary care physician will face. but it is reality for us colored, or flavored, aspiring doctors.

the most recent example my father continues to point to is PE Obama. how many times was it touted that he was a "Harvard law school" graduate. there has been absolutely no question about his intellectual ability. such is not generally the case for black men. perhaps it is the proverbial chip on my shoulder, but i feel like i am constantly always having to conduct myself in such a way that does not imply ignorance nor lack of education. obama could probably mispell "potato" and still be seen as brilliant. anyway, my pop's point is that a shiny, framed yale degree hanging on my wall or printed on my resume will allow me to walk into doors that may have been closed were i to go to good ole' state u.

ne thoughts?
 
this is a little bit of a digression, but does anyone else have parents who want you to go to a "prestigious" medical school for this very reason. if you lurk on these boards long enough, you will innundated with posts about how unimportant or insignificant the ranking or prestige of a US allopathic medical school is. but a main reason my parents want me to go to a harvard, or a yale, or a penn is not because of the superior education i will recieve, but because of the public's perception of me, as a black male and my level of education. it goes without saying that the issue the black guy in the article had to face is not one that is of concern of your average vanilla (to quote LizzyM) primary care physician will face. but it is reality for us colored, or flavored, aspiring doctors.

the most recent example my father continues to point to is PE Obama. how many times was it touted that he was a "Harvard law school" graduate. there has been absolutely no question about his intellectual ability. such is not generally the case for black men. perhaps it is the proverbial chip on my shoulder, but i feel like i am constantly always having to conduct myself in such a way that does not imply ignorance nor lack of education. obama could probably mispell "potato" and still be seen as brilliant. anyway, my pop's point is that a shiny, framed yale degree hanging on my wall or printed on my resume will allow me to walk into doors that may have been closed were i to go to good ole' state u.

ne thoughts?

Man do i feel you. Though, this pressure to get the prestigious degrees doesn't come from my mother. She could care less. It comes from myself. This is because I earnestly believe a black person needs to work twice as hard to be considered equal, so I have to work twice as hard. This self-pressure not only reflects in my obsession with rankings and schools, but it also affects how I speak, what I say, how I write, etc.

Now, don't get me started on how this pressure to succeed reflects on my "blackness." oh my.
 
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This is because I earnestly believe a black person needs to work twice as hard to be considered equal, so I have to work twice as hard.

Yes, this is the part when I realized that simply Mingling with my PI like the rest of the RAs wouldn’t be enough for me to get my own experiment or my name on a publication, and that something seen as an honest mistake by my Asian colleagues would most likely be construed as evidence of a lack of competence by a black male like myself. Its funny how race has a way of playing a subconscious role in people’s judgment. The margin of error is a lot narrower when you’re riding the Black/minority train.
 
this is a little bit of a digression, but does anyone else have parents who want you to go to a "prestigious" medical school for this very reason. if you lurk on these boards long enough, you will innundated with posts about how unimportant or insignificant the ranking or prestige of a US allopathic medical school is. but a main reason my parents want me to go to a harvard, or a yale, or a penn is not because of the superior education i will recieve, but because of the public's perception of me, as a black male and my level of education. it goes without saying that the issue the black guy in the article had to face is not one that is of concern of your average vanilla (to quote LizzyM) primary care physician will face. but it is reality for us colored, or flavored, aspiring doctors.

the most recent example my father continues to point to is PE Obama. how many times was it touted that he was a "Harvard law school" graduate. there has been absolutely no question about his intellectual ability. such is not generally the case for black men. perhaps it is the proverbial chip on my shoulder, but i feel like i am constantly always having to conduct myself in such a way that does not imply ignorance nor lack of education. obama could probably mispell "potato" and still be seen as brilliant. anyway, my pop's point is that a shiny, framed yale degree hanging on my wall or printed on my resume will allow me to walk into doors that may have been closed were i to go to good ole' state u.

ne thoughts?
Man, I went to a good ole' state u for undergrad instead of Berkeley, and I felt like I was judged every time I mentioned my undergrad during last cycle.

It was the typical conversation:
Me: So where you from?
Them: Random eastcoast city.
Me: How do you like it out there?
Them: I love it, especially my time spent at (insert Ivy here)
Me: That's wussup.
Them: So where did you go to school?
Me: Cal State Long Beach
Them: Ohh.... is that a JC?
Me: Hahaha... it's actually a daycare.

Anyways, I didn't think about the "prestige" factor until I applied to med school. It didn't weigh in on my mind as an undergrad, and for the most part, it still doesn't. It kinda sucks when people somewhat write you off based on where you went to school though, but to each their own. I'm VERY pleased with my education and I truly loved my college experience so I don't trip about it.

My decision on a med school was largely based on my own ambition and desire to go to a school that was at the very forefront of medicine and to live in a city that was very intellectual and progressive. I'm a total nerd when it comes to learning, so I chose the school that would best suit my goals.

And now, although my med school does have a decent amount of prestige, the average person has never heard of it and I get similar reactions as my undergrad.

Them: So you're a med student? Where do you go to school?
Me: UCSF
Them: Ohh... how do you like it?

The other difficulty is going from a good ole state U to a major med school. Then people think AA must have been used, even though CA is banned from using it. The irony.

Would life have been easier had I chosen more popular institutions? Perhaps. But I'm doing this for myself and at the end of the day, people will judge me for a variety of reasons. Race, undergrad, med school whatever. I aint got time to worry about them.
 
this is a little bit of a digression, but does anyone else have parents who want you to go to a "prestigious" medical school for this very reason. if you lurk on these boards long enough, you will innundated with posts about how unimportant or insignificant the ranking or prestige of a US allopathic medical school is. but a main reason my parents want me to go to a harvard, or a yale, or a penn is not because of the superior education i will recieve, but because of the public's perception of me, as a black male and my level of education. it goes without saying that the issue the black guy in the article had to face is not one that is of concern of your average vanilla (to quote LizzyM) primary care physician will face. but it is reality for us colored, or flavored, aspiring doctors.

the most recent example my father continues to point to is PE Obama. how many times was it touted that he was a "Harvard law school" graduate. there has been absolutely no question about his intellectual ability. such is not generally the case for black men. perhaps it is the proverbial chip on my shoulder, but i feel like i am constantly always having to conduct myself in such a way that does not imply ignorance nor lack of education. obama could probably mispell "potato" and still be seen as brilliant. anyway, my pop's point is that a shiny, framed yale degree hanging on my wall or printed on my resume will allow me to walk into doors that may have been closed were i to go to good ole' state u.
ne thoughts?

Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.


Bottom line, you don't have to attend Harvard or Hopkins to excel and lead in medicine. You can rise to the top from any medical school in this country. Sure, walking the halls of a Harvard or a Hopkins will put you in close proximity to some outstanding clinicians but you can work with and under these folks from any medical school in the country especially if you excel in your studies and attend national meetings.

I am nothing special but I have had the opportunity to train under (or operate with) all of the folks above except Dr. Claude Organ and Dr. Canaday both of whom I met at the American College of Surgeons and the Society of Black Academic Surgeons. Dr. Carson was the speaker at my White Coat Ceremony and I spent plenty of time with him on my acting internship at Hopkins with Dr. Cornwell.

In short, your career is what you make of it and in the world of medicine, men and women of color are so very, very rare. I can tell you that I know every surgeon (and most of the rest of the physicians of other specialties) of color in the major metropolitan area where I practice. There just aren't that many of us. No doors are closed to you if you do excellent work and perform at a high level. You don't NEED to flash a degree to make yourself distinguished, you need to flash some excellence.
 
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Man, I went to a good ole' state u for undergrad instead of Berkeley, and I felt like I was judged every time I mentioned my undergrad during last cycle.

It was the typical conversation:
Me: So where you from?
Them: Random eastcoast city.
Me: How do you like it out there?
Them: I love it, especially my time spent at (insert Ivy here)
Me: That's wussup.
Them: So where did you go to school?
Me: Cal State Long Beach
Them: Ohh.... is that a JC?
Me: Hahaha... it's actually a daycare.

Anyways, I didn't think about the "prestige" factor until I applied to med school. It didn't weigh in on my mind as an undergrad, and for the most part, it still doesn't. It kinda sucks when people somewhat write you off based on where you went to school though, but to each their own. I'm VERY pleased with my education and I truly loved my college experience so I don't trip about it.

My decision on a med school was largely based on my own ambition and desire to go to a school that was at the very forefront of medicine and to live in a city that was very intellectual and progressive. I'm a total nerd when it comes to learning, so I chose the school that would best suit my goals.

And now, although my med school does have a decent amount of prestige, the average person has never heard of it and I get similar reactions as my undergrad.

Them: So you're a med student? Where do you go to school?
Me: UCSF
Them: Ohh... how do you like it?

The other difficulty is going from a good ole state U to a major med school. Then people think AA must have been used, even though CA is banned from using it. The irony.

Would life have been easier had I chosen more popular institutions? Perhaps. But I'm doing this for myself and at the end of the day, people will judge me for a variety of reasons. Race, undergrad, med school whatever. I aint got time to worry about them.

QFT. Life is too short to worry about things that are beyond your control. We're entering 2009 and as long as you do everything in your power to excel in whatever it is that you do, you should be fine (generally speaking).
 
Man do i feel you. Though, this pressure to get the prestigious degrees doesn't come from my mother. She could care less. It comes from myself. This is because I earnestly believe a black person needs to work twice as hard to be considered equal, so I have to work twice as hard. This self-pressure not only reflects in my obsession with rankings and schools, but it also affects how I speak, what I say, how I write, etc.

Now, don't get me started on how this pressure to succeed reflects on my "blackness." oh my.


Not to question your "blackness" but didn't in another thread you say you were Samoan? Or are you both perhaps? Or perhaps your somehow Afro-Samoan which I've never seen or heard of but I guess might exist? lol
 
Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.


Bottom line, you don't have to attend Harvard or Hopkins to excel and lead in medicine. You can rise to the top from any medical school in this country. Sure, walking the halls of a Harvard or a Hopkins will put you in close proximity to some outstanding clinicians but you can work with and under these folks from any medical school in the country especially if you excel in your studies and attend national meetings.

I am nothing special but I have had the opportunity to train under (or operate with) all of the folks above except Dr. Claude Organ and Dr. Canaday both of whom I met at the American College of Surgeons and the Society of Black Academic Surgeons. Dr. Carson was the speaker at my White Coat Ceremony and I spent plenty of time with him on my acting internship at Hopkins with Dr. Cornwell.

In short, your career is what you make of it and in the world of medicine, men and women of color are so very, very rare. I can tell you that I know every surgeon (and most of the rest of the physicians of other specialties) of color in the major metropolitan area where I practice. There just aren't that many of us. No doors are closed to you if you do excellent work and perform at a high level. You don't NEED to flash a degree to make yourself distinguished, you need to flash some excellence.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Great post!! Do you know any Latinos of this caliber? Or are we not quite as distinguished yet? lol
 
This thread is very interesting. Education will always be power for the black students. As a black student, I care less about what others think about me, instead, I work hard to reach the highest of heights in society. I have come face to face with racism in nursing college every time I have clinical rotation but I always try to remain rational and motivated to do my best. I was the only black employee where I worked and I was the first to be laid-off. Those that came after me are still working and my manager chose me, the student who has the ambition for advancement" to be laid off. I packed my bag and left with my head up high because I know deep within that the only thing that can go on forever is salvation.
 
Not to question your "blackness" but didn't in another thread you say you were Samoan? Or are you both perhaps? Or perhaps your somehow Afro-Samoan which I've never seen or heard of but I guess might exist? lol

Hello... Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is Afro Samoan. Yeah, he used to wrestle, but he parlayed that into a film career.
 
Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.


Bottom line, you don't have to attend Harvard or Hopkins to excel and lead in medicine. You can rise to the top from any medical school in this country. Sure, walking the halls of a Harvard or a Hopkins will put you in close proximity to some outstanding clinicians but you can work with and under these folks from any medical school in the country especially if you excel in your studies and attend national meetings.

I am nothing special but I have had the opportunity to train under (or operate with) all of the folks above except Dr. Claude Organ and Dr. Canaday both of whom I met at the American College of Surgeons and the Society of Black Academic Surgeons. Dr. Carson was the speaker at my White Coat Ceremony and I spent plenty of time with him on my acting internship at Hopkins with Dr. Cornwell.

In short, your career is what you make of it and in the world of medicine, men and women of color are so very, very rare. I can tell you that I know every surgeon (and most of the rest of the physicians of other specialties) of color in the major metropolitan area where I practice. There just aren't that many of us. No doors are closed to you if you do excellent work and perform at a high level. You don't NEED to flash a degree to make yourself distinguished, you need to flash some excellence.

Haha, Great post. I'm proud to say I had the pleasure of shadowing Dr. Myers at Howard on a couple occasions but unfortunately, my attempts to scrub in on some of his surgeries left me wanting (He said NO) :laugh:. However, I did get to watch him take a piece of metal out of some little child's ear during his office rounds.
 
Hello... Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is Afro Samoan. Yeah, he used to wrestle, but he parlayed that into a film career.


He's not "Afro-Samoan" he's half black, half samoan...and for some reason kinda looks like my dad lol...if he were Afro-Samoan he would be full Samoan but somehow his ancestors would have been descendants from Africa who were either brought or moved to Samoa....feel me?
 
Not to question your "blackness" but didn't in another thread you say you were Samoan? Or are you both perhaps? Or perhaps your somehow Afro-Samoan which I've never seen or heard of but I guess might exist? lol

Yeah, I'm both. black and Samoan. I grew up in Detroit's black/Jewish community, though. Hence, my quest to find other Samoans out there. I need to move to the west coast to get more exposure. Plus, I'm in LOVE with the Rock! I always wondered if we were related... He can pay for my medical school.

EDIT: I've never heard of Afro-Samoan, but I do know that the Samoan community HEAVILY identifies with the U.S. black community. In fact many Samoans on the mainland identify so strongly with the black community, that they experience racial identity confusion.
 
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Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.


Bottom line, you don't have to attend Harvard or Hopkins to excel and lead in medicine. You can rise to the top from any medical school in this country. Sure, walking the halls of a Harvard or a Hopkins will put you in close proximity to some outstanding clinicians but you can work with and under these folks from any medical school in the country especially if you excel in your studies and attend national meetings.

I am nothing special but I have had the opportunity to train under (or operate with) all of the folks above except Dr. Claude Organ and Dr. Canaday both of whom I met at the American College of Surgeons and the Society of Black Academic Surgeons. Dr. Carson was the speaker at my White Coat Ceremony and I spent plenty of time with him on my acting internship at Hopkins with Dr. Cornwell.

In short, your career is what you make of it and in the world of medicine, men and women of color are so very, very rare. I can tell you that I know every surgeon (and most of the rest of the physicians of other specialties) of color in the major metropolitan area where I practice. There just aren't that many of us. No doors are closed to you if you do excellent work and perform at a high level. You don't NEED to flash a degree to make yourself distinguished, you need to flash some excellence.
NJB!!! Holla at me! :love:
 
Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.

I hope to be able to see my name on that list one day :D.
 
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I hope to be able to see my name on that list one day :D.


Now, that's the thinking that you want to have. It isn't where you come from, it's where you are going and anyone can achieve excellence from any medical(dental) school in this country. It's day in and day out hard work but you can all do it. No distractions and no doubts because if you make it in, you can make it happen for yourself.

The person in that article that Doctajay posted wrote about one obstacle that's out there. I can tell you that there are others but you reach down inside yourself and decide that you will face every challenge head on and make it work for yourself. Your school isn't going to do this for you, you have to do this for yourself.
 
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Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.


Bottom line, you don't have to attend Harvard or Hopkins to excel and lead in medicine. You can rise to the top from any medical school in this country. Sure, walking the halls of a Harvard or a Hopkins will put you in close proximity to some outstanding clinicians but you can work with and under these folks from any medical school in the country especially if you excel in your studies and attend national meetings.

I am nothing special but I have had the opportunity to train under (or operate with) all of the folks above except Dr. Claude Organ and Dr. Canaday both of whom I met at the American College of Surgeons and the Society of Black Academic Surgeons. Dr. Carson was the speaker at my White Coat Ceremony and I spent plenty of time with him on my acting internship at Hopkins with Dr. Cornwell.

In short, your career is what you make of it and in the world of medicine, men and women of color are so very, very rare. I can tell you that I know every surgeon (and most of the rest of the physicians of other specialties) of color in the major metropolitan area where I practice. There just aren't that many of us. No doors are closed to you if you do excellent work and perform at a high level. You don't NEED to flash a degree to make yourself distinguished, you need to flash some excellence.

Boy NJBMD, you be dropping some real knowledge on us!
 
I am so glad to see this post. I am bicultural and black and proud. I do not walk around with a poster stating this. I am just myself, ebulient and fun loving, hard working. I went to med school in a large urban school where there was strong African Americal representation. I felt tremendous support as a med student. I am in my third year of residency and cannot wait to be done so I can get the heck ou of this state in the southwest. The problem is racism is everywhere!I have never had a situation where people were so underhanded and passive aggressive. I have had complaints launched at me such as I talk too proper or when i am talking to another patient that I use too much slang. I have even had auxillary staff lie on me saying I cussed them out...totally out of character for me! On the flip side, many will say that I light up the room and I know I have more friends than foes. It is just very discouraging and sometimes I wish I had stayed where there was minority support. But everything happens for a reason and I am glad I had this experience. Anyone else going though this character defamation?
 
Hello... Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson is Afro Samoan. Yeah, he used to wrestle, but he parlayed that into a film career.

he was also an all star defensive end for UMiami I think. a true superstar in the realest sense of the word.

i had an argument with someone about him, though. when i look at him, i dont see a black man. but he is without a doubt bi-racial. the person whom i was arguing with claimed that he was, "obviously black." i didn't and still don't think so. i dont think the average joe would look at him and see a black man. i think they would see a mixed race person whom they couldn't quite put a finger a on. at any rate. Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?

and speaking of cooking, Samoan's got some damn good cookies. them girl scout cookies are on point!
 
Yeah, well anybody that believes that racism is gone or has even taken a back seat is walking around with their eyes closed. It's not the outright KKK type of racism anymore (even though that's still out there), but there is a more subtle form of racism that still lingers. Ever had somebody cross the street to avoid you? Or had a lady clutch a purse when you walk by? Ever had a teacher doubt your abilities without any real reason to? These are just a few things that have happened to me that aren't necessarily intentional and are probably more subliminal than anything. I've also experienced a lot of other dumb crap that is much more outlandish and intentionally cruel. But it's the subliminal stuff that gets to me because those people don't think they're racist whereas the people who will come straight out and call you a racial epithet are willing to outwardly admit that they don't like you which at least lets you know where you stand. Good times....


Haha. Just reading this post makes me think back to the times in high school this happened to me. Once, this guy thought I was going to steal his car. Second time, me and my friend who happens to be Black, walked into a Michael's because we needed some stuff for a project. As soon as we walked in, we noticed the manager whisper into an employees ear and tell her to follow us around the store. They didn't think we know, but how can you not tell when someone is indescriminatly following you? Haha.

Although, if I do see someone who looks suspicious dressing "down" so to speak, I'm going to be cautious as well. It might be racist, but that's my senses "tingeling".
 
he was also an all star defensive end for UMiami I think. a true superstar in the realest sense of the word.

i had an argument with someone about him, though. when i look at him, i dont see a black man. but he is without a doubt bi-racial. the person whom i was arguing with claimed that he was, "obviously black." i didn't and still don't think so. i dont think the average joe would look at him and see a black man. i think they would see a mixed race person whom they couldn't quite put a finger a on. at any rate. Can you smell what the Rock is cooking?

and speaking of cooking, Samoan's got some damn good cookies. them girl scout cookies are on point!


Maybe I'm just biased towards my own people or something...but when I saw the Rock I coulda sworn the brother was Puerto Rican or Dominican or something along those lines. He doesn't look black at all in my opinion...he definitely looks mixed. But, well, I hate wrestling...but that's an argument for another time :laugh:
 
Yeah, I'm both. black and Samoan. I grew up in Detroit's black/Jewish community, though. Hence, my quest to find other Samoans out there. I need to move to the west coast to get more exposure. Plus, I'm in LOVE with the Rock! I always wondered if we were related... He can pay for my medical school.

EDIT: I've never heard of Afro-Samoan, but I do know that the Samoan community HEAVILY identifies with the U.S. black community. In fact many Samoans on the mainland identify so strongly with the black community, that they experience racial identity confusion.

That just goes to show that we can't place all people into the few categories that we have for "race". There are sooo many different types of people in the world that don't really fit into the categories of black/white/asian etc. I'll never forget the shock of when I came across an island of African-looking people(sub-suharan) with naturally blonde hair, and (according to scientists) Asian DNA. :wow:
 
I think this sort of behaviour is typically american, in western europe(where i study) it is quite unlikely for a patient to refuse a doctor because they are african or indian, there are many doctors from former colonies practising in the uk, france and belgium. Nobody has ever doubted my intelligence, because african students in my university have a reputation of doing much better than the average, we are more likely to be respected in academic circles than in real life. The town where i study is extremely racist, many cafes and bars are no go zones for us, but we just avoid them altogether, the feeling of being rejected is horrible but i guess we are used to it, we have our own groups, we stick together and help each other out. The professors are great here because they know we are more dedicated than the average student, we also work longer and harder. I will definitely come to america for a year long research, i have family there, but this sort of thing discourages me, as for the future, i will go back to my country of origin even though i will have an EU passport before i graduate.
 
I think this sort of behaviour is typically american, in western europe(where i study) it is quite unlikely for a patient to refuse a doctor because they are african or indian, there are many doctors from former colonies practising in the uk, france and belgium. Nobody has ever doubted my intelligence, because african students in my university have a reputation of doing much better than the average, we are more likely to be respected in academic circles than in real life. The town where i study is extremely racist, many cafes and bars are no go zones for us, but we just avoid them altogether, the feeling of being rejected is horrible but i guess we are used to it, we have our own groups, we stick together and help each other out. The professors are great here because they know we are more dedicated than the average student, we also work longer and harder. I will definitely come to america for a year long research, i have family there, but this sort of thing discourages me, as for the future, i will go back to my country of origin even though i will have an EU passport before i graduate.

Don't let that stuff discourage you. If it makes people in this thread feel any better, when I was shadowing a doctor I was given a white coat, and everyone mistook me for a doctor even though I was just an undergrad:eek:. I was even repeatedly asked to give recommendations on treatments(while the real doctor was in the room~he was white and old btw).

So yea **** happens but it happens to alot of people, just get over it and get the job done.

But I do have a pretty mature looking face.
 
Benjamin Carson, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School (state school). Dr. Carson is one of the most recognizable African-American surgeons in this country. He is a pediatric neurosurgeon and chair of his department at Johns Hopkins.

LaSalle Lefall, Jr, M.D. is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine and was the first African-American president of the American College of Surgeons.

Edward Cornwell, III, M.D. chair of adult Trauma Surgery at Johns Hopkins is an alum of Howard University College of Medicine. He just made the move to take over chair of surgery at Howard.

Claude Organ, M.D. was an alum of Creighton Medical School and was the second African-American president of the American College of Surgeons. He went on to chair the department of surgery at UCSF-East Bay.

Alexa I Canady, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric neurosurgeon. She is now at Sacred Heart Medical Center in Pensacola, Fla by way of the chairmanship of Yale Neurosurgery.

Anthony Stallion, M.D. is an alum of University of Michigan Medical School and a nationally recognized pediatric surgeon who specializes in the treatment of Hirschsprung's Disease. Dr. Stallion heads Pediatric Surgery at Cleveland Clinic.

Ernest Myers, M.D. is an alum of University of Pittsburgh Medical School and the author of one of the definitive books in the treatment of head and neck cancer. He is chair of the ENT Department at Howard.

Vivian Pinn, M.D. is an alum of University of Virginia Medical School and the former head of the Woman's Health Initiative at NIH. She was my renal pathology professor.


Bottom line, you don't have to attend Harvard or Hopkins to excel and lead in medicine. You can rise to the top from any medical school in this country. Sure, walking the halls of a Harvard or a Hopkins will put you in close proximity to some outstanding clinicians but you can work with and under these folks from any medical school in the country especially if you excel in your studies and attend national meetings.

I am nothing special but I have had the opportunity to train under (or operate with) all of the folks above except Dr. Claude Organ and Dr. Canaday both of whom I met at the American College of Surgeons and the Society of Black Academic Surgeons. Dr. Carson was the speaker at my White Coat Ceremony and I spent plenty of time with him on my acting internship at Hopkins with Dr. Cornwell.

In short, your career is what you make of it and in the world of medicine, men and women of color are so very, very rare. I can tell you that I know every surgeon (and most of the rest of the physicians of other specialties) of color in the major metropolitan area where I practice. There just aren't that many of us. No doors are closed to you if you do excellent work and perform at a high level. You don't NEED to flash a degree to make yourself distinguished, you need to flash some excellence.

First, let me say that this is very true and I totally agree that what other people think should not determine whatsoever how you view yourself, nor should it take away from your accomplishments, etc. But, I also think its a mistake to undervalue that "prestige factor." What people think can shape your path to some degree. Going to one of "those other schools" may not close doors, but being an urm, I think we have to walk through every possible door that is opened to us, because there are still so many that are closed. These schools will open doors.

I was fortunate enough to go to a "top" undergrad, and it is amazing to see how people change once you tell them. People who were once disinterested in you will turn completely around, asking questions, and even look up to you (given that they believe you lol) Don't get me wrong, I don't go around telling everyone I see my background, but when it does come up, its like night and day.

I think sometimes with the stigma attached to AA we tend to look down on "handouts" because it not only devalues us in others' eyes but in our own as well. We already have to work double to be considered to have the same ability as our white counterparts. The people on this list worked triple (at least). Theres nothing wrong with taking an opportunity even if it is "only because your black." If you are working as hard as you can, putting your best foot forward it shouldn't matter. If they want to give you something, take it. Let them worry about the reasoning behind it.

Personally, I say if you have an opportunity to go to a great big name school, go. If you think you have no chance, its still worth a try (given you have the app money). You never know what those adcoms are looking for. Even if it means taking out a little more loan money, you will pay off the loans, but ur experience will stay with you. What up doc's pop's is right. and the obama example is a good one.

So all in all I think that regarding the prestigious schools, It doesn't make you who you are, it wont automatically make you a good doctor, but it will help equalize the playing field quite a bit, and maybe keep a few naysayers from asking for the white doctor.

Just my 2 cents.

PS great list. some true inspiration right there.

this is a little bit of a digression, but does anyone else have parents who want you to go to a "prestigious" medical school for this very reason. if you lurk on these boards long enough, you will innundated with posts about how unimportant or insignificant the ranking or prestige of a US allopathic medical school is. but a main reason my parents want me to go to a harvard, or a yale, or a penn is not because of the superior education i will recieve, but because of the public's perception of me, as a black male and my level of education. it goes without saying that the issue the black guy in the article had to face is not one that is of concern of your average vanilla (to quote LizzyM) primary care physician will face. but it is reality for us colored, or flavored, aspiring doctors.

the most recent example my father continues to point to is PE Obama. how many times was it touted that he was a "Harvard law school" graduate. there has been absolutely no question about his intellectual ability. such is not generally the case for black men. perhaps it is the proverbial chip on my shoulder, but i feel like i am constantly always having to conduct myself in such a way that does not imply ignorance nor lack of education. obama could probably mispell "potato" and still be seen as brilliant. anyway, my pop's point is that a shiny, framed yale degree hanging on my wall or printed on my resume will allow me to walk into doors that may have been closed were i to go to good ole' state u.

ne thoughts?
 
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Racism seems to be a never ending era since it passed on from generation to generation. In the hospitals in Florida it is very prevalent. It is by the grace of God why I still have a job. I have to practice to ignore people and swallow.
 
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