my dreams are crashing and burning

[strictlyanon]

Is it just me or is there a constant cycle of anywhere from 1-3 users at a time on Pre-Allo starting arguments and being disrespectful, then they get banned, and after a little while a new group comes up? Lol. I still remember the havoc wreaked by the Real SVB a few months back

It's almost as if people forget the real purpose of posting on here-- to help OP.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[nverqrui]

Is it just me or is there a constant cycle of anywhere from 1-3 users at a time on Pre-Allo starting arguments and being disrespectful, then they get banned, and after a little while a new group comes up? Lol. I still remember the havoc wreaked by the Real SVB a few months back

Please don't even mention The Real SVB. I'm undergoing rehab for the extensive brain damage I received in that time, and I don't want to relapse.

 

[Goro]

SVB had nothing on mrh125 or theBatman!

Is it just me or is there a constant cycle of anywhere from 1-3 users at a time on Pre-Allo starting arguments and being disrespectful, then they get banned, and after a little while a new group comes up? Lol. I still remember the havoc wreaked by the Real SVB a few months back

 

[Affiche]

Please don't even mention The Real SVB. I'm undergoing rehab for the extensive brain damage I received in that time, and I don't want to relapse.

SVB is like Voldemort: if you say the name he might come back!

SVB had nothing on mrh125 or theBatman!

I actually kind of liked Batman!!! Mostly because he came back as "BatmanReturns" hahaha

 

[ranob]

• Mental health issues have a lot of to with your school performance. Depression will lead to apathy, and anxiety will make it difficult to study.
• Generalizing your incident is not appropriate. You are one person not a thousand.
• Mental health disorders are very, very chronic. It is possible one may suffer from dysthymia which went undiagnosed and unnoticed. This leads to my first point, so your statement is unfair to make.

Chiming in as another "the lack of education on mental health issues in this thread is disheartening".
OP, I also struggled mightily with anxiety and depression throughout the first two years of college. [...] My grades were more than fine

Make that two people now. Might be worth rethinking the misconception that depression/anxiety have anything to do with grades, as more and more people chime in here regarding their experiences with "mental disorders." Seriously though, if you haven't suffered from these afflictions (and don't know anyone that has), you really shouldn't blindly comment on them. Get informed first.

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

Make that two people now. Might be worth rethinking the misconception that depression/anxiety have anything to do with grades, as more and more people chime in here regarding their experiences with "mental disorders." Seriously though, if you haven't suffered from these afflictions (and don't know anyone that has), you really shouldn't blindly comment on them. Get informed first.

I am diagnosed with dysthymia and social anxiety disorder with multiple mental health professionals agreeing on the diagnosis.

 

[NewHorizons]

SVB is like Voldemort: if you say the name he might come back!


I actually kind of liked Batman!!! Mostly because he came back as "BatmanReturns" hahaha

Yo seriously I heard rumors of this name before.... what was it like during their reign?

Definitely more entertaining than the Canadian counterpart... I'm gonna get more fat with all this popcorn I'm eating.

 

[Doudline]

SVB had nothing on mrh125 or theBatman!

mrh125 was banned?! I kinda liked her.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

mrh125 was banned?! I kinda liked her.

I'm pretty sure he's still around...under a new handle, obviously.

 

[Doudline]

Make that two people now. Might be worth rethinking the misconception that depression/anxiety have anything to do with grades, as more and more people chime in here regarding their experiences with "mental disorders." Seriously though, if you haven't suffered from these afflictions (and don't know anyone that has), you really shouldn't blindly comment on them. Get informed first.

• http://www-personal.umich.edu/~daneis/papers/MHacademics.pdf

"We conduct the first study, to our knowledge, of how mental health predicts academic success during
college in a random longitudinal sample of students. We find that depression is a significant predictor of lower GPA and higher probability of dropping out, controlling for prior academic performance and other variables. The association between depression and academic outcomes is strongest among students with a positive anxiety disorder screen."

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16278502

"This study investigates the relationship between depression and its treatments and the academic performance of undergraduate students [...] Diagnosed depression was associated with a 0.49 point, or half a letter grade, decrease in student GPA."

• http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042814001876

"The present research aims to study the Relation between Mental health and Academic Performance in athletic and non-athletic Students of the Islamic Azad University Ahvaz branch, Iran [...] The results showed that general health and some of its components, such as depression and anxiety, had a significant relation with educational performance [...] According to the findings of this research, it can be concluded that the higher the mental health of the students, the better their educational performance".

• http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/upl...l-health-and-academic-achievement-2-24-12.pdf

"Only 32 percent of students with a serious mental illness continue onto postsecondary education"

"Anxiety disorders [...] are associated with a reduced likelihood of attending college"

"People with a lifetime occurrence of social phobia are almost twice as likely to fail a grade or not finish high school as those who have never had the condition"

"High depression scores have been associated with low academic achievement; high scholastic anxiety; increased school suspensions; and decreased ability or desire to complete homework, concentrate, and attend class"

"Students reporting high levels of psychosocial stress are more likely to perceive themselves as less academically competent"

---------------------------------------------

Taking the first 4 links popping on Google.

But you know, you have a n=2 here, so you must be right.

 

[Goro]

He and the minimum four subsequent resurrections as well.

mrh125 was banned?! I kinda liked her.

 

[Crayola227]

• http://www-personal.umich.edu/~daneis/papers/MHacademics.pdf

"We conduct the first study, to our knowledge, of how mental health predicts academic success during
college in a random longitudinal sample of students. We find that depression is a significant predictor of lower GPA and higher probability of dropping out, controlling for prior academic performance and other variables. The association between depression and academic outcomes is strongest among students with a positive anxiety disorder screen."

• http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16278502

"This study investigates the relationship between depression and its treatments and the academic performance of undergraduate students [...] Diagnosed depression was associated with a 0.49 point, or half a letter grade, decrease in student GPA."

• http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1877042814001876

"The present research aims to study the Relation between Mental health and Academic Performance in athletic and non-athletic Students of the Islamic Azad University Ahvaz branch, Iran [...] The results showed that general health and some of its components, such as depression and anxiety, had a significant relation with educational performance [...] According to the findings of this research, it can be concluded that the higher the mental health of the students, the better their educational performance".

• http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/upl...l-health-and-academic-achievement-2-24-12.pdf

"Only 32 percent of students with a serious mental illness continue onto postsecondary education"

"Anxiety disorders [...] are associated with a reduced likelihood of attending college"

"People with a lifetime occurrence of social phobia are almost twice as likely to fail a grade or not finish high school as those who have never had the condition"

"High depression scores have been associated with low academic achievement; high scholastic anxiety; increased school suspensions; and decreased ability or desire to complete homework, concentrate, and attend class"

"Students reporting high levels of psychosocial stress are more likely to perceive themselves as less academically competent"

---------------------------------------------

Taking the first 4 links popping on Google.

But you know, you have a n=2 here, so you must be right.

Great work on showing that you are informed. It would be nice to know what were your Google search terms that generated these search results.

It's great work as it really shows how important addressing mental health is for individual quality of life, and also what society stands to gain by it. Studies like these may help us to ensure that the educational process is helping maximize potential and minimize harm.

Most of what you cited suggests correlation, not causation, between mental health problems and low academic performance. I think that is interesting.

It's great to consider the data in how we can better treat and train people.

Another question to consider, which is what is the correlation between academic achievement at any level of education and patient outcomes in a given healthcare field? In allopathic medical schools, emphasis has been on traditional markers such as MCAT and Step Scores. This has predicted further test performance, but the relation to success in residency and beyond in relation to improving patient outcomes, hard measures and subjective, has been elusive. In osteopathic schools, there has been less emphasis on these markers, and while lower performance on these tests in DO graduates has been predictive of Step 3 and board pass rates, has not shown significant effect on patient outcomes. So there has been great interest in exploring how to measure academic achievement, and how that translates to patient care, outcomes, satisfaction.

Professionalism concerns in medical school predicted later professionalism concerns.

Interestingly, there have been studies that looked at medical student mental health before and after medical school, and before and after residency. Consistently worse. Could just be correlation.

Mental health treatment, education, training, and occupational factors should all be considered.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2011/01/surgeon-contemplating-suicide.html

 

[mcatjelly]

Make that two people now. Might be worth rethinking the misconception that depression/anxiety have anything to do with grades, as more and more people chime in here regarding their experiences with "mental disorders." Seriously though, if you haven't suffered from these afflictions (and don't know anyone that has), you really shouldn't blindly comment on them. Get informed first.

Wait... I wasn't trying to make that point? I consider myself lucky to have achieved the GPA I did when I was seriously anxious and depressed. I have many friends who deal with mental health issues and are NOT able to maintain decent grades; some have had to take medical leave or go part time due to their mental health affecting their GPA.

For some, severe anxiety can be a driving force; for others, it's paralyzing. Mental illness doesn't have to affect GPA, sure, but within the definition of mental illness lies "impairment of daily functioning," so of course it's often detrimental to GPA.

 

[619959]

People, you DO NOT REALIZE that some of your comments might actually worsen OP's mental health situation...

 

[AlfonsTheGuru]

People, you DO NOT REALIZE that some of your comments might actually worsen OP's mental health situation...

This thread isn't very helpful for OP anymore :/

 

[619959]

This thread isn't very helpful for OP anymore :/

that also...I have gone through depression and some people who are participating in this thread do not realize how much one's word can impact someone's mental health situation

 

[Goro]

Good point Cray. This is actually one we medical educators wrestle with constantly. How do we know that we're turning out a good product? We know we're turning out smart products, but does that mean they'll be good doctors?

The answer is, unfortunately a multi-year project.

One of the few outcomes my school has been able to look at is where are our graduates ending up in practice.

Another question to consider, which is what is the correlation between academic achievement at any level of education and patient outcomes in a given healthcare field? In allopathic medical schools, emphasis has been on traditional markers such as MCAT and Step Scores. This has predicted further test performance, but the relation to success in residency and beyond in relation to improving patient outcomes, hard measures and subjective, has been elusive. In osteopathic schools, there has been less emphasis on these markers, and while lower performance on these tests in DO graduates has been predictive of Step 3 and board pass rates, has not shown significant effect on patient outcomes. So there has been great interest in exploring how to measure academic achievement, and how that translates to patient care, outcomes, satisfaction.

 

[GrapesofRath]

The bottom line from all of this and many other discussions that highlight how pathetic education on mental health in this country is is until the number of people who think mental illness is "the fault of a person" "or something they can control whether it happens or not" and is simply an issue of "toughening up and dealing with it"goes down substantially ignorance on the issue itself will persist and continue to make it an incredibly difficult environment and culture for those who do happen to suffer from issues regarding mental health to get necessary help and be able to develop a method and plan to begin to overcome what is bothering them.

 

[nverqrui]

The bottom line from all of this and many other discussions that highlight how pathetic education on mental health in this country is is until the number of people who think mental illness is "the fault of a person" "or something they can control whether it happens or not" and is simply an issue of "toughening up and dealing with it"goes down substantially ignorance on the issue itself will persist and continue to make it an incredibly difficult environment and culture for those who do happen to suffer from issues regarding mental health to get necessary help and be able to develop a method and plan to begin to overcome what is bothering them.

This might be the longest, most correct sentence I have ever read.

 

[Affiche]

This thread isn't very helpful for OP anymore :/

It hasn't been for a long while.

I will chime in with a classic n=1 and encourage anyone reading this who may suffer from anxiety and/or depression that it isn't a career-killer like some posters have suggested. My mentor of 10+ years suffers from clinical depression and happens to be a phenomenal attending at a magnet hospital. Her depression was so terrible in college that she used to miss class because of a bad hair day. I remember her telling me that she literally looked in the mirror and thought ''I can't possibly go to class like this''. Guess what? She got help and got a handle on it. She probably is more prone to bad days than her colleagues, but it doesn't affect her day to day at all and it certainly doesn't affect her career.

I think a lot of naive pre-meds think that if you suffer from any kind of mental illness it means 1. It's a permanent red flag and 2. That you aren't strong enough to handle medicine. The state of your mental health can be very fluid for even the healthiest of us and it definitely doesn't mean you aren't strong or capable.

Physicians aren't perfect. They all have flaws and personal **** they are working through, so it follows that pre-meds and med students will too. Honestly, from reading SDN you'd think AMCAS will soon ask your BMI and if you've ever seen a therapist!

 

[619959]

It hasn't been for a long while.

I will chime in with a classic n=1 and encourage anyone reading this who may suffer from anxiety and/or depression that it isn't a career-killer like some posters have suggested.

but, some of the posts that are waaaaayyyyyyy too much hurtful and unnecessary needs to be hidden if you would recommend someone (with similar condition) to read this...one the other hand, there are SO MANYYYYYY misconceptions around mental health issues among the general population as it has been portrayed here.

 

[tantacles]

This thread is no longer helpful. Closing.