My interview question-support for step 3?

[nearlythere]

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Hi,
I read in the past somewhere that some programs send their residents to a 4 day prep course for step 3. Are any programs doing this still? Could I even dare ask whether a program supports a resident in taking the step 3 exam?!
Thanks

 

[Frugal Traveler]

I think you do not want to get too much into benefits as usually much information is on the website about these things. You could phrase the question as, "I was wondering what kind of support your program provides for board exams."

I would try to check out the website first... many programs have a stipend that you can use to pay for Step 3 in addition faculty may do discrete board review courses.

 

[ShyRem]

I flat out ask during interviews. Do they do review for step 3, what form does it entail, what help do they give interns who fail step 3, do they review for boards, does everyone take boards (to see if the pass rate is artificially inflated)... etc. I figure I'm interviewing them as much as they're interviewing me. So I want to know details about support for exams which affect my future. I haven't had anyone upset, in fact most have said it was a good question that I should indeed be asking about.

 

[nearlythere]

THANK YOU!

I agree this IS my future and I would like to know whether they give support. I will ask it politely though, but certainly evaluate how much they want to help their residents.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Good Lord - a 4 day prep course? For Step 3?

What happened to bring a number 2 pencil ("2 months, 2 weeks, #2 pencil?")

 

[gutonc]

Good Lord - a 4 day prep course? For Step 3?

What happened to bring a number 2 pencil ("2 months, 2 weeks, #2 pencil?")

I was thinking the same thing. I read through one review book over the course of 3 evenings (at a bar) and did about 200 questions in 2 nights (at a bar). Far and away my best Step score.

And I thought it was "2 weeks, 2 days, #2 pencil."

If you are breathing and have graduated from a real medical school (even St. James or Eustasius which just barely count) you should pass Step 3. I know plenty of people who have failed Steps 1 or 2...I've never met anybody who failed Step 3.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I was thinking the same thing. I read through one review book over the course of 3 evenings (at a bar) and did about 200 questions in 2 nights (at a bar). Far and away my best Step score.

And I thought it was "2 weeks, 2 days, #2 pencil."

Maybe it was...who remembers, it was a long time ago.😀

If you are breathing and have graduated from a real medical school (even St. James or Eustasius which just barely count) you should pass Step 3. I know plenty of people who have failed Steps 1 or 2...I've never met anybody who failed Step 3.

Agreed. Hell, I was lucky to get the time off to TAKE Step 3, let alone a 4 day prep course. If I can pass it when there were about 4 surgery questions on it, anyone should be able to. Its not hard...I think I skimmed through Swanson's FM and some notes and did the practice questions USMLE provided.

You don't need a prep course and I certainly wouldn't look at it as a measure of a program caring about its residents. Give me more pay, more vacation...something I need and can use. IMHO programs that throw this fluff at you do so because they are lacking somewhere else.

 

[ShyRem]

I have heard those phrases too, WS, but I've also met residents who indeed failed step 3. I don't know if the steps being reviewed are the reason for the failures, poor preparation in school, poor intern year, whatever. But more and more programs do a review throughout the year as part of their didactics.

And as for vacation -- plenty of programs are not allowing residents to take true vacation time. They will manipulate their schedules so their normal time off is in a block, but that's not vacation in my book. Vacation is not working days you are supposed to work, not shoving all your weekends into one block so your total number of work days stays the same. (wow, did that even make sense?)

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have heard those phrases too, WS, but I've also met residents who indeed failed step 3. I don't know if the steps being reviewed are the reason for the failures, poor preparation in school, poor intern year, whatever. But more and more programs do a review throughout the year as part of their didactics.

Oh I know, we all know people who have failed Step 3. I'm not sure why either because I felt that if I could pass it, at the dawn of my PGY-3 year, before the 80 hr thang, with little "general medicine" (or all that Peds ID stuff I got asked about), others should be able to. But there are lots of reasons why people don't pass, even very bright ones. Just seems like overkill to have review programs but no skin off my nose if someone wants to focus on that as a reason to pick a residency program.

And as for vacation -- plenty of programs are not allowing residents to take true vacation time. They will manipulate their schedules so their normal time off is in a block, but that's not vacation in my book. Vacation is not working days you are supposed to work, not shoving all your weekends into one block so your total number of work days stays the same. (wow, did that even make sense?)

I could not agree more. Those block vacations without any vacation throughout the rest of the year are just ways to make scheduling easier for someone. They are not restful and do not benefit the resident in any way I can see.

 

[nearlythere]

Hi, can I ask you what you mean with block vacation? Thank you for your responses. I smiled reading a few of them. I am anxious as I've done the step 2, two years ago and feel rusted. I DO learn things to understand and so remember them, so I'm glad to hear that it shouldn't be that difficult to pass the exam.

I AM more worried about the vacations not being true vacations the way they schedule it per what you are saying. Please advise me how I can ask the right questions about the vacation set out, if I don't even know what block vacation means!!

Thanks,

 

[error404]

I wouldn't expect any program to be in the habit of giving 4 days off for a prep course-- though I would expect, if you got your dates sorted early enough, that they'd help you arrange your vacation week to coincide with an existing course.

I would expect some noon conferences dedicated to board questions and good didactic sessions as their "board prep."

Many programs do offer some financial assistance... For instance, a couple hundred dollars towards "educational materials" and occasionally, reimbursement for the exam itself.

 

[ShyRem]

Yeah, I haven't found any programs who offer time off for a board prep course. But most do didactic sessions/noon conferences for board prep for their interns. Some, however, do not, and that is something I wanted to know about.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

But most do didactic sessions/noon conferences for board prep for their interns.

I would be pretty unhappy if my didactics ended up being step 3 review. I'd much rather get teaching tailored to my specialty.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Hi, can I ask you what you mean with block vacation?

All programs offer a certain amount of vacation. Usually 3-4 weeks per year.

Block time vacation means rather than having your 3-4 weeks taken 1 week at a time, ALL of your vacation time is bundled or blocked together, back to back.

Really sucks, especially if you get the first or last block of the year - you're either not in need of vacation or needed it a lot sooner. Its simply a lazy way for programs to distribute manpower, IMHO.

 

[ShyRem]

And there are some programs where say you're supposed to work 20 shifts in a month. You want to take vacation... so they rework your schedule so you STILL work 20 days that month, no weekends, and then get your "vacation" in what days are leftover. For example, you want off December 22-Jan1. So you work from 12/1-12/21 with only one day off (thus working your 20 shifts) and then have 12/22-1/1 marked as "vacation" even though you'd get the same number of days off that month anyway, just spread out a bit.

 

[nearlythere]

Whao, I better remember to check in with current residents to find out about their vacation days experience. Thank you for the information.

 

[Buzz Me]

Good Lord - a 4 day prep course? For Step 3?

What happened to bring a number 2 pencil ("2 months, 2 weeks, #2 pencil?")

Exactly!

Not only did I only study 2 days for Step 3 (which basically involved skimming a review book plus doing the official clinical cases on CD), those counted as two of my four days off for that month. 🙁