Jjkim89

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I am a sophmore in college with a 3.28 overall and a 3.0 BCPM... This semester is might pull up my gpa to a possible 3.4 overall and like a 3.3 BCPM. The thing is that I don't know know if I am going to do with orgo. I think i'm going to end up with a C.... Which would totally kill my grade. So.. I'm pending whether or not I should stick for MD school and switch to DO school. Also, what is the difference between MD and DO? I met a few DO physicians and they do the same thing as a MD physician.
 

Bacchus

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The difference between MD and DO is that you will learn osteopathic manipulative medicine at a DO school. There can be some residency bias for the top spots, but there is extreme competition for these spots regardless.

Lets not start a debate. Give the OP suggestions, but DO NOT argue the legitimacy of DO vs. MD.

OP, go to the pre-osteo forum for a DO FAQ.
 

Quix

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Missionary.







Try the search function before you post this - all of these questions have been answered before, and all will be answered again... [/BSG]
 
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Jjkim89

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er....so should i switch to DO instead of MD? that was my first question which wasn't answered.. i'll check up on the DO vs MD
 

Quix

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er....so should i switch to DO instead of MD? that was my first question which wasn't answered.. i'll check up on the DO vs MD


No, you should only apply to DO schools if that philosophy of medicine suits you.

You aren't applying immediately, so work to improve your QPA and apply broadly. Study your butt off to make your MCAT competitive. Decide which philosophy of practice suits you best and apply according over a broad spectrum of schools. This is the same advice everyone gets, especially when they have a B+ average and pre-med neurosis, convinced that their lives are over because of a sub-3.5 QPA.
 
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Jjkim89

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sadly orgo has depressed me to a state where I ask myself how well am i going to do in orgo 2 if i get a freaking C in orgo 1. I seriously want to do MD. I'm already looking at UIC Med for MD. Planning to shadow physicians soon. Volunteer (Hopefully, too many freaking premeds are already doing it) at a hospital. Oh. and next semester is going to be fun. Cell bio, orgo 2, orgo lab, soc, and some other class.
 

billy72583

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sadly orgo has depressed me to a state where I ask myself how well am i going to do in orgo 2 if i get a freaking C in orgo 1. I seriously want to do MD. I'm already looking at UIC Med for MD. Planning to shadow physicians soon. Volunteer (Hopefully, too many freaking premeds are already doing it) at a hospital. Oh. and next semester is going to be fun. Cell bio, orgo 2, orgo lab, soc, and some other class.

I wouldn't be soliciting advice from the bunch of neurotic gunners you will find on SDN. I got a C in orgo, my GPA is 3.3, and I just got into an MD school. Go for it, if thats really what you want to do. Take a sedative too, its just a C, dude.
 

cbrons

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I wouldn't be soliciting advice from the bunch of neurotic gunners you will find on SDN. I got a C in orgo, my GPA is 3.3, and I just got into an MD school. Go for it, if thats really what you want to do. Take a sedative too, its just a C, dude.

good advice, I think you'll be fine. Just do well from here on out and do well on MCAT.
 

ANF1986

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I wouldn't be soliciting advice from the bunch of neurotic gunners you will find on SDN. I got a C in orgo, my GPA is 3.3, and I just got into an MD school. Go for it, if thats really what you want to do. Take a sedative too, its just a C, dude.


Just a C!!!!!!!!!!!...... SDN Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lol just kiddin bro...


To the OP, it is not the end of the world, decide what route to take when you are closer to actually applying...
 

Rooni

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You're only in your third semester of college. You still have plenty of time to pull your GPA up, get some good extracurriculars, and study hard for the MCAT. I really don't think you need to be worrying just yet about where you should apply.
 

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No, you should only apply to DO schools if that philosophy of medicine suits you.

I disagree. If you want to be a physician and going to a DO school is the only way you can become one, then you should do it.

Yes, some people apply to DO schools because they cannot get into MD schools. I don't see anything wrong with that.
 

brianmartin

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Besides, the philosophy is not different in any way. Unless you believe that BS about MD physicians "not treating the whole patient."
 

Quix

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I disagree. If you want to be a physician and going to a DO school is the only way you can become one, then you should do it.

Yes, some people apply to DO schools because they cannot get into MD schools. I don't see anything wrong with that.

This idea is dangerous as it takes us into MD > DO territory, which generally produces arguments and bans.

Besides, the philosophy is not different in any way. Unless you believe that BS about MD physicians "not treating the whole patient."

This isn't an accurate statement. The training is essentially identical (with differences in terms of OMM and the COMLEX), but they do approach diagnosis and treatment differently. That "BS" as you call it is actually true, regardless of what your pre-med impression is.
 
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fightinI

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The training is essentially identical (with differences in terms of OMM and the COMLEX),

I agree.


That "BS" as you call it is actually true, regardless of what your pre-med impression is.

I respectfully disagree.

OP, go ahead and apply to DO school when the time comes. You'll will be highly qualified and able to care for people with either degree
 

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I'll try to be constructive (all my own honest opinions). I am going to an MD school next year mainly because it is considered to be the "standard." The main practical difference that I see between the two degrees is the global recognition of the MD degree (which is important to me because of my career goals). The DO degree, however, is basically the same as the MD in the United States (there are amazing physicians on both sides). Treating the whole patient is entirely the individual physician's responsibility. In the future, the DO degree will become even more similar to the MD. It is increasingly recognized globally, and it will make you happier than not being a doctor.

You can still raise your GPA. Getting into medical school is not impossible, and you will be surprised how many interviews you can get with a 3.4 GPA complemented with a high MCAT. Go study!
 

magikdoc

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please no more MD vs DO debate threads....

So for the original OP, I was in similar shoes when I was a sophomore. I had a GPA below 3.3, involved heavily in athletics and was kind of dreaming I could get into any medical school with any grade....

Suffice to say it, I did some research and realized I was wrong. My junior/senior years, I started doing a significant amount of research and luckily got publications. Also, I started taking more science classes toward my major which boosted my sGPA.

I ended up taking a year off too.

I guess my advice to you, is that it is never too late to bump that GPA back up and also, you will have to work extra hard on the MCAT to make up for the low GPA.

Soooo far, its been going pretty well for me, I can't complain. And I definitely UIC med college is a wonderful choice to aspire to.
 

Excelsius

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DO vs MD argument is all about perception. The first question is do you have a preference for either one due to the slightly different methods of instruction? If the answer is no, then the only other important question is if you are ok with people questioning your DO title and asking you to explain what it is. If you're ok with that too, then it makes no difference whether you choose DO vs MD.

The less relevant question as of today concerns residency. It is less relevant because as a premed it is almost impossible to know whether you will be choosing the most competitive residency or not. One caveat: if you are absolutely sure that you are shooting for dermatology, then you should know that by 2015 there is a possibility that the decreased residency spots (by up to 40%) will force AMA to limit the number of international residence applicants (which are mostly for primary residencies) and these spots will be mainly redistributed to DOs, making them even more concentrated in primary care. There are about 12 additional MD schools that will come online by 2015 and by 2019 most of the MD residencies will have to go to MD students.
 

Excelsius

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Keep in mind that low GPA also depends on your ethnicity. The average GPA per ethnicity goes as low as 3.44 cGPA and 3.30 BCPM. Look here and see where you fall. There are some Caucasian students who get in with sub 3.30 as well. If you look at MSAR, you'll see that the 10th percentile acceptances for quite a few MD schools is 3.2 or below.

The above + that you have some time left in school, you do have a shot at MD schools. Just plan where you apply, how many schools you apply to, and what you do to supplement your lower GPA.
 

Chemdude

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Keep in mind that low GPA also depends on your ethnicity. The average GPA per ethnicity goes as low as 3.44 cGPA and 3.30 BCPM. Look here and see where you fall. There are some Caucasian students who get in with sub 3.30 as well. If you look at MSAR, you'll see that the 10th percentile acceptances for quite a few MD schools is 3.2 or below.

The above + that you have some time left in school, you do have a shot at MD schools. Just plan where you apply, how many schools you apply to, and what you do to supplement your lower GPA.

Do we seriously have to mention that? You're basically telling the OP, "It's ok to get a C if you are URM."
 

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I don't see why you have to "switch" to pre-DO from pre-MD. The prereqs are the same, the extracurriculars that help you for one also help you with the other. The ONLY difference in preparation I can think of is to shadow a DO, but even this isn't essential for DO schools and even this will help you with MD schools, because shadowing a DO is still shadowing a physician.

Apply to both. I don't see anything wrong with appplying DO without being into the "philosophy." If osteopathic medicine gives one the chance to become a physician, then you can get into the philosophy.
 

katarina90

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I don't see why you have to "switch" to pre-DO from pre-MD. The prereqs are the same, the extracurriculars that help you for one also help you with the other. The ONLY difference in preparation I can think of is to shadow a DO, but even this isn't essential for DO schools and even this will help you with MD schools, because shadowing a DO is still shadowing a physician.

Apply to both. I don't see anything wrong with applying DO without being into the "philosophy." If osteopathic medicine gives one the chance to become a physician, then you can get into the philosophy.

I agree, and am definitely applying to both, with an open mind about either option. But also would add that if/when you get interviews at DO schools, make sure you can talk about the philosophy and also have good reasons why you applied to DO schools.

PS. I can sympathize w/ you, OP. I've got a almost an identical situation (overall and BCPM gpa, also a soph.), and am pulling straight As this semester (doable, with good class planning and a lot of work). You have time to bring that GPA up...

*An added note: AT Still University (founding DO school; ave. gpa about a 3.5, MCAT 28 according to handout) reps came to visit our campus this week, and I spoke with one of them. I was very impressed. They seem to have a nice curriculum and atmosphere, definitely one of the schools I'm looking into.
 

premedrod

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I am a sophmore in college with a 3.28 overall and a 3.0 BCPM... This semester is might pull up my gpa to a possible 3.4 overall and like a 3.3 BCPM. The thing is that I don't know know if I am going to do with orgo. I think i'm going to end up with a C.... Which would totally kill my grade. So.. I'm pending whether or not I should stick for MD school and switch to DO school. Also, what is the difference between MD and DO? I met a few DO physicians and they do the same thing as a MD physician.

first off, get some shadowing done, then you'll see if you like the profession. you might not think its worth it if you learn more about it. just because you got a C doesnt mean you should go to D.O. it just means you might have to do super well junior and senior year to be able to go to an MD school. but in my experience, 3 and 4th year is hard... if you got a hard major. anyways, fin d out if you like it, then you'll have the drive to do well and not have to settle for anything. ur lucky you're still in college, while i, on the other hand, figured that i wanted to apply after college so my gpa stands to be a horrible sight...
 

Excelsius

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Yeah, why not? That's what I'm going to do.

Apply to both only if you are willing to go the DO route. If you get accepted only to DO schools and you decide not to go, in your next cycle you will not get into any schools since they'll know that you have already turned down an acceptance. Every once in a while someone pops up on SDN in that situation. Applying DO is not about backups to make you feel better. You must be prepared to attend.
 

Excelsius

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Excelsius, You could always match into an osteopathic derm residency. Problem solved.

You can match into an MD derm residency too. I don't know what's the DO residency break down for each subspecialty, but I know that there have been a some concerns about a few of them in terms of quality. In addition, I think there are fewer residency spots - I think 10 or so DO spots for NS. Some DO NS spots go unfilled and that has raised questions as to why that might be...

Things aren't bad right now, but if you listen to guys like Law2Doc, they predict that within a few years most IMG spots are going to be transferred to US graduates. Since that is going to be accompanies by flood of extra MD students due to new MD med schools (10-15 by 2015), that means that DO students will have to heavily rely on their own residency spots. If those spots don't increase (which it seems there are no plans as of now), then the logical conclusion is that the IMG residency spots will be heavily distributed to DO students, which, as you might know, are mostly for primary care. I am more optimistic and think that only 20% of IMG spots will be reserved for US seniors, but some who are more pessimistic assume that it could be up to 40%. That's a large number. It is also not hard to imagine that beyond a certain point of IMG residency spot decrease (e.g., 30%), there might be a chain reaction where very few people choose to attend the Caribbean schools. This will make even more primary residencies to US seniors and given that MDs have their own specialty residencies, those extra residencies meant for IMGs might be used as a good excuse to not increase MD, but especially DO spots. Either way, DO specialty residency spots will become much more hard to get.

Still, if someone is this concerned about it, then he/she should do everything possible to exhaust the MD route first, and there are several routes.
 
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