Nail techs

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JustAPedicurist

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I’ve heard of some places having nail techs, they seem like MAs or LPN’s but they cut nails. How often is this used and what is the legality of this? Is it state dependent or legal everywhere? As the podiatrist can you bill everything under them?


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PM News recently had a comment thread on this.

One Janet McCormick who has founded a nail tech training school has been reaching out to the colleges of podiatry to merge their curricula, and rightfully is trying to stir up a grassroots movement amongst practicing DPMs to recruit nail techs into their business.

Dr Ivar Roth, who has a mustache, responded saying in so many words that we need to protect our monopoly on grinding keratin

The more definitive response came from Dr Richard Maleski where he basically said "no, it can't be billed to insurance, it's fraud."

Today, the final results of a poll on the subject were posted. Of 443 respondents, 47% said no, they don't want to hire nail techs.
 
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Michael Warsaw has an article (below) and it has much less content than I thought it would have. The same applies to randos writing into Boomer news. I was expecting something more definitive like a link to CMS documentation.

This superseded CMS LCD (below) does repeatedly use language focusing on the provider rendering the service ie.
"The clinical documentation must clearly show that the patient’s condition warrants a provider rendering these services in accordance with the above instruction,"

Meanwhile in Texas.
 
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There is nothing to stop you from using nail techs in basically all places. In PP, it's just MAs who get trained for that and everything else. Nail techs will still need to know how to be podiatry MA, unless you have an unreal amount of RFC.

You will hear the "that's not legal" from the occasional podiatry student who the mustache professors or APMA old heads have 'scared straight,' but it's just noise.

...in the end, just do it ethically. See new patients for talk and exam before debride (and honestly, may as well do debride yourself anyways... takes 1-2mins and creates rapport and doc f2f time that your MA doing debride will not). It needs to be documented that they meet at-risk status. For follow-ups, you can delegate, but I just do the RFC... you obviously can't delegate callus shaving or invasive stuff to people minimal/no training, so may as well do RFC while asking about shoes, glucose control, etc.

I do a relatively little amount of RFC visits, and I honestly find it's better to do the debride myself and have MA grabbing felt pads or instruments or cream or etc from drawers, doing note, getting gel toe pads or various OTC stuff, cleaning other exam room or rooming next patient, autoclaving, etc.

It's different in 'nail jail' practices where half the daily schedule is f/u RFC visits. When its only a few per day, I'm just more efficient for the DPM to quickly do those, and since you will need to do exam and calluses anyways, you don't end up with all the "make that nail shorter" and "is that edge an ingrown" and "I think she missed a corner" and "can you check circulation/neuropathy/injury."

When you think about it, any DPM out practicing has been cutting nails for many years: 3rd year student, 4th year, three years residency... plus more years of practice and shadowing. Most MA will be bad and/or afraid to do nail care, and even if your MA(s) are quite good at nail care, they'll make mistakes... and pts won't trust them or value their time as much as doc f2f time. Those few MAs who do get with good nail care are fairly rare and typically more useful doing other stuff. They also won't identify calluses, biopsies, tendonotmies, deformities, DM shoe need, etc for you while they're doing nail care... but you can.

In the end, the staff are minimum value on nails and much more added efficiency at many other office tasks IMO. I am talking about maxing revenue and efficiency. You will accomplish better care and efficiency with less overlap if you largely DIY nail care during exam + convo, assuming it's a balanced office schedule (derm, ortho, DM, deformities, RFC, etc). For those ultra-depressing offices with 10+ nail pts per day, then yeah, I get it... train MAs to cut, dremel, or both when you ask. :thumbup:
 
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You can absolutely hire a nail tech, but their services can’t be billed to insurance (not by you or the nail tech).
 
You can absolutely hire a nail tech, but their services can’t be billed to insurance (not by you or the nail tech).
I'm not saying your wrong - I'm saying you are not offering a source. What is the basis for this? Where in Medicare's rules / guidelines does it say this?

The other podiatrist in town that I am friends with does nail surgery on Saturday because you can't "bill a visit and procedure together." False.
My front desk staffer told me that if you bill a CPT code and an E&M together you get paid less for the visit. False.

So much of what people say is just made up / what they heard. Feli above says you can. You say you can't. Who will point to actual guidance?

Note that Warsaw above, a professional coder, doesn't point to any documentation in Medicare's actual guidelines saying you can't do it. He essentially says - if the patient is high risk how do you justify it.
 
Sure you can hire one but guess who is going to be cutting the gnarly nails the nail tech getting paid minimum wage feels uncomfortable cutting?
 
Sure you can hire one but guess who is going to be cutting the gnarly nails the nail tech getting paid minimum wage feels uncomfortable cutting?
Maybe we're talking about different things, but how would you hire someone for $7 an hour that works a line of chairs at a salon charging $50 + tip a person...
 
Maybe we're talking about different things, but how would you hire someone for $7 an hour that works a line of chairs at a salon charging $50 + tip a person...

My cousins are nail techs, own 3 shops now with a total of 30 stations that she rents out to other techs who just needs a shop. She has a 70/30 rule where the shop keeps 70% and you take 30+tips. She told me privately that after over head she's taking home 200K. She completed a 1 month program, did 100 hrs of supervision and it cost her 5K.
 
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1. Cash is king.
2. "The sky is the limit" is only true when you keep the income of others.
3. Successful businesses set their own prices.
 
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The other podiatrist in town that I am friends with does nail surgery on Saturday because you can't "bill a visit and procedure together." False.
I've complained about my billers enough you know what my situation is. Sucks.

But I have also complained to my friends and one of my friends in a different state texted me that their biller now also is denying E&M with procedure. Only procedure is billed/reimbursed. Which sucks because on a wRVU bases injections and minor procedures pay less than a 99213/99203.

I dont make people come back another day for a procedure. But I dont blame docs that do.
 
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...you can't "bill a visit and procedure together." False....
Yes, totally false.

This is a usually a combo of uneducated doc (probably using wrong mods and/or same code for E&M and proc), inept billing, and misunderstanding.

There are certainly situations where the E&M or proc will get rejected (should be rare with most payers with proper coding... but many will try... and typically reject whichever one was worth more). From there, it's on the biller to re-submit with note or op report. And sure, it can be low quality payers that have higher reject rate, but many people work around that with accurate coding.

Back in reality, basically the only time one should ever be doing proc CPT without a E&M is if the proc was clearly planned/scheduled/decided at a prior visit. That would be your ingrown put on abx and comes back for planned matrix, your 4th or 5th wound or verruca tx or etc in a row (with no other issues or new decision making), scheduled OR surgery, etc.

This is one of the biggest myths in podiatry, bar none.
It is up there with "one incision, one procedure" nonsense.
 
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