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National Boards Pass/Fail
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Well once I saw the person said it was official, I did some looking around and this is the most "credible" source I could find. Scroll down to the very bottom and just read under NBDE.
http://www.agd.org/education/transcriptnews/Default.asp?PubID=47&IssID=802&ArtID=4010
http://www.agd.org/education/transcriptnews/Default.asp?PubID=47&IssID=802&ArtID=4010
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Damn, even wiki confirms the 2010 change. I thought they pushed it back a year, to 2011.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBDE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBDE
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This the most current information on ADA website:
Future Changes in NBDE Scoring
The National Board Dental Examinations will be moving from a scored exam to a pass/fail. Beginning no sooner than January 1, 2010, candidate performance on Part I, Part II, will be reported to candidates, state boards, and dental schools only as pass or fail. The decision was made at the Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations' meeting on March 11-12, 2008. It is noted that the ADA House of Delegates adopted a resolution urging the JCNDE to wait until Nov 1, 2011 so it's possible that the 2010 date will be pushed back. The Commission also decided that standard scores will no longer be developed or reported. Further, they will continue to report raw score performance information in the disciplines covered on the examinations for failing candidates only. This information on failing candidates will be provided to candidates and dental schools. For more information on the
changes in scoring, visit the education and testing area of ADA.org at http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/index.asp.
Future Changes in NBDE Scoring
The National Board Dental Examinations will be moving from a scored exam to a pass/fail. Beginning no sooner than January 1, 2010, candidate performance on Part I, Part II, will be reported to candidates, state boards, and dental schools only as pass or fail. The decision was made at the Joint Commission on National Dental Examinations' meeting on March 11-12, 2008. It is noted that the ADA House of Delegates adopted a resolution urging the JCNDE to wait until Nov 1, 2011 so it's possible that the 2010 date will be pushed back. The Commission also decided that standard scores will no longer be developed or reported. Further, they will continue to report raw score performance information in the disciplines covered on the examinations for failing candidates only. This information on failing candidates will be provided to candidates and dental schools. For more information on the
changes in scoring, visit the education and testing area of ADA.org at http://www.ada.org/prof/ed/testing/index.asp.
Thank you Cold front for sharing your thoughts .
But the big elephant in he room is ... how about us ?? if we passed the boards before 2010 ,lets say 85 score and we applied for residency program in 2010 ,did our score will change from 85 to PASS ??? or we will be stuck with our score forever ???
I am just curious because there will be no need to retake the part 1 for example to get higher "SCORE " if after few months they will gona change the score to PASS....
ANY thoughts on that guys is highly appreciated🙂
But the big elephant in he room is ... how about us ?? if we passed the boards before 2010 ,lets say 85 score and we applied for residency program in 2010 ,did our score will change from 85 to PASS ??? or we will be stuck with our score forever ???
I am just curious because there will be no need to retake the part 1 for example to get higher "SCORE " if after few months they will gona change the score to PASS....
ANY thoughts on that guys is highly appreciated🙂
5
54807
This link is pretty important. It has the states that accept wrebs, nerbs, etc. This is tough to find on the websites individually so hold on to this webpage.
Exam Makeup
Passing Score
States Using This Exam
CRDTS
CRDTS, Inc. has adopted the ADEX* examination as the CRDTS' examination. Therefore, the CRDTS' examination includes the content, criteria and scoring methodologies developed by ADEX.
In order to achieve "CRDTS status" and be eligible for licensure in a participating state, candidates must achieve a score of 75 or more in each part of the examination.
The members of CRDTS are the State Boards of :
CO, GA, HI, IL, IA, KS, MN, MO, NE, ND, SC, SD, WA, WI, WY
The following non-member states also accept CRDTS/ADEX results for licensure:
CT, DC, ID, IN, LA, MA, MD, ME, MI, MT, NH, NJ, NM, NV, NY, OH, OR, PA, RI, TX, UT, VA, VT, WV
NERB
The ADEX* approved ADLEX examination is administered by NERB in the CIF format for senior dental students and in the traditional format for all other candidates.
A score of 75 or more is required to pass each examination.
NERB Participating States/Jurisdictions:
CT, DC, IL, IN, ME, MD, MA, MI, NH, NJ, OH, PA, RI, VT, WV
CITA
The CITA dental examination consists of five (5) individual, skill specific parts: (1) computer-based (National Board Exam Parts I and II), two (2) manikin-based, and two (2) patient-based examinations.
Candidates have one (1) year from date of examination to successfully complete the National Boards Part I and II. Failure to do so will result in exam scores becoming null and void, and candidates will be required to retake the entire CITA examination again.
CITA Status is achieved when a candidate has successfully completed all parts of the CITA examination with a score of 75 or greater on each part and has successfully completed the Dental National Board Examinations as administered by the Joint Commission. Once a candidate has achieved CITA Status, they will have met the clinical examination requirement in those states which recognize and accept the CITA exam as fulfilling their clinical licensure requirements.
Currently the states of Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, and the territory of Puerto Rico have contracted with CITA to administer the CITA dental and dental hygiene examination.
The following jurisdictions recognize the results of the CITA examination:
AL, KS, LA, MA, ME, MS, MO, MT, NH, NC, ND, OR, PR, VA, WA, WV
WREB
The examination consists of four parts:
· Operative (52 pts.)
· Periodontics (20 pts.)
· Endodontics (18 pts.)
· Prosthodontics (10 pts.)
WREB requires a (compensatory) minimum overall score of 75 and a (conjunctive) section score of 55. State dental boards require the National Boards, Parts 1 and 2 for licensure. WREB does not require National Boards prior to taking the WREB exam.
WREB Member State Boards:
AK, AZ, CA, ID, MO, MT, NM, OK, OR, TX, UT, WA, WY
The following non-member states also accept WREB for licensure:
CO, CT, IA, KS, KY, LA, MA, ME, NH, NV, OH, SD, TN, VT, VA, WV
SRTA
The examination in dentistry consists of six separate sections: Endodontics, Class III Composite, Class II Amalgam, Fixed Prosthodontics and computer simulated examinations in Periodontics and Prosthodontics.
Each section is judged by specific criteria and scored on a "Pass/Fail" basis. Successful completion of a section is contingent on passing 75 percent or more of the specified criteria in any and all procedures within that section. Successful completion of the examination requires passing all six sections.
SRTA members include:
AR, KY, SC, TN, WV
The following non-member states also accept WREB for licensure:
AL, CT, IN, ME, MN,MT, NE, NH, OH, TX, VT, VA, UT, WA
NBDE
Part I is comprised of 400 multiple-choice items in the areas of Anatomic Sciences, Biochemistry-Physiology, Microbiology-Pathology, and Dental Anatomy and Occlusion.
Part II consists of 500 test items derived from the following disciplines:
- Endodontics
- Operative Dentistry
- Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery/Pain Control
- Oral Diagnosis
- Orthodontics/Pediatric Dentistry
- Patient Management
- Periodontics
- Pharmacology
- Prosthodontics
At the present time, a candidates performance is reported as a single standard score and associated pass/fail status, with a 75 being the minimum passing score. Beginning in 2010, performance will only be reported as pass/fail.
Currently, all 53 United States licensing jurisdictions recognize National Board results.
These jurisdictions include all 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Virgin Islands of the United States.
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That page hasn't been updated since last summer (2008).
That's what I was waiting for. The way I understood it was that the powers at be were going to meet in March/April (same time they met last year which started this mess) to decide once and for all if they were going to continue going along with the P/F change for 2010.
One of the previous (and long) threads on this topic went into detail about that exact situation. The way I remember it (according to that thread) is that if you got a score before the change, you would always have that score even after the test went P/F. Some people at P/F schools were talking about ways to hurry and get a scored exam before the switchover, while people at other school were interested in pushing back their test until after the changeover.
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The information I posted was published a month ago in ADA's 2009 New Grad handbook. It also shows an updated licensing requirements information for each state. If you are about to enter your final year, you should have received a hard copy in the mail.
https://www.ada.org/prof/ed/students/handbook/handbook_newgrad.pdf (pg 5, or search "2010")
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Any score, old or new, will automatically be changed to PASS or FAIL.
For example (hypothetically speaking), if you scored 99 on part 1, and your friend got 75, both of these scores will be reported as PASS. There will be no way to tell who did better on the test.
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I think you are misinformed. non-pass/fail scores will always be reported with a numerical grade. it is only the pass/fail scores (whenever that will actually be implemented) will be reported as pass/fail. I think this is important to clarify.
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ADA has not officially commented on what will happen to old scores, I just don't see the significance of keeping old scores the same. People have reported phone/email responses from ADA on this matter, but I am note sure if this part of the issue has been finalized.
Either way, the value of using of NBDE scores for post-grad selection process will be zero, with or without scores. Passing the test is all that matters.
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I hope they stay on 2010 to make it pass/fail and not push it back, I was so excited about that. It definitely removes some of the stress in studying for the exam.
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My apologies... The link to the page you first gave has additional links over on the right that state "new" even though they are quite old. I see that when I go further in the NBDE 1 section there is some updated material. 👍
I second that. Granted I will still have to study in order to pass, I have never been a great standardized test taker (SAT, ACT, DAT) and don't want to kill my self trying to score ridiculously high. Would much rather use those hours volunteering in weekend clinics, or doing research.
You are wrong on this one, buddy. People taking the exam before the date of conversion to P/F will always be stuck with their score. Old scores are not going to be converted to P/F.
I just called the ADA and ask them about this issue, they told me that the boards committee shall meet this month and decide regarding this issue. if anybody interesting in this , you may contact them directly " take the words from the horse mouth " 1800 2321694 .
I believe its make no sense starting 2010 with two format( numeric and PASS/FALL )grade at a time . how the program director will decide if they have 2 student one with 90 score and other PASS . its not fair just to admit the student with grade just because they pass the exam before 2010 . I think the numeric grade will make sense only for students they will apply this year only, starting next year it will not give any advantage over any other candidate . just my thoughts 🙂
Lol, It's funny, cos I called the same number today morning before you did (a couple of minutes before my previous post) to ask about this, and the lady on the phone told me that old scores will NOT be converted to pass/fail after the conversion of NBDE to P/F system. That's why I was so assertive and certain with my post. I guess they don't even know what they are going to do, so we will need to wait.
are you serious ?? didn't she told you that the board shall meet and decide regarding this issue this month 🙂 , and they will post the new regulation in the ADA website ... wat a forked tongueanyway, even if they don't change the old score, its still make no sense ....
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I'm moving this to the dental forum...
I'm pretty sure there is more than one person answering our phone calls, and the degree of willingness to explain things to people certainly varies from one person to other. I am takin part-1 in July, and certainly want to get my score after two years of studying for the damn thing day and night.
anyway, even if they don't change the old score, its still make no sense ....
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That's what the ADA secretaries will tell you on the phone, and most of the time they don't agree with each other. Either way, even if your old scores don't change, no one will care how well you did on part 1 once the new grading system is phased in. The #1 goal for the JCNDE is to eliminate the NBDE scores' use for post-grad programs - that's a FACT.
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Then what criteria do they base it off of then?
Does this mean it will be P/F for the 2013 entering class? Is this a good thing?
I'm not really familiar / sure whether I should be happy or not. 😕
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ya i really feel like a guinea pig!
What will happen to those who want to apply for specialties in our class?? Will most schools just accept within their class, or will the schools create a standardized specialty exam?
If the true cause for going p/f is to eliminate it's current use in specialty consideration, which it is, i wouldn't think that the possibility of having scores released if the student applies to a specialty school would be considered (not sure if i worded that coherently)
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Simple... The DAT is an admissions test and the only reason applicants take it is to get a score (to be used for comparison).
The NBDE on the other hand is test that needs to be passed in order to receive a dental dental license. The score from this test had been inadvertently used for comparison of applicants for residency programs. The test was never designed for that type of assessment and is one of the reasons why they are contemplating a switch away from numeric scores.
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Ok... that makes sense...
.But then what will they use to determine if theyw ant you for specialty? What about Dschools that are Pass / Fail.... now they only have a bunch of P's or F's for both board and D-school... leaving htem almost nowhere????
.But then what will they use to determine if theyw ant you for specialty? What about Dschools that are Pass / Fail.... now they only have a bunch of P's or F's for both board and D-school... leaving htem almost nowhere????
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Except all the residency programs seem quite content using it as a ranking system and if they switch it to P/F how are residency programs going to rank students?
Most likely make an experimental test for the class of 2013 and we get to be the test dummies. I'd rather have the rules established and tested before and not be the phase I trial.
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exactly, and i'm hoping they push it back so the next years class will be p/f. I'm somewhat scared that my school, which is known for it's difficult curriculum, would change to a graded system. This would really put harder p/f schools at a disadvantage when it comes to applying for specialties.
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Yep, I called them too, starting Jan 2010, it will be P/F.
It is official, according to the lady I called lol (1-800-232-1694)
My school is P/F (Columbia) and the Test is P/F.
Sincerely, I couldn't be happier (explanation below).
😀
I did way lower on the DAT (than I realistically expected) bec/ I was so stressed out to get the really high scores I kept getting on all practice exams. Turns out the whole week before, I could only sleep like ~2 hours per night bec/ I was so stressed out. And I was falling asleep, dozing off throughout the test. Yes, making it P/F, will make me way less stressed.
I guess some ppl are worried that others will just coast through the test just to get the "P" while the rest of us are truly trying to learn the most so we can do great, even though it is only P/F. So they are worried that other ppl who scored less will be in the same group as us ("P")? I am not really worried about competition with others though, just with myself. I know that sounds cheesy lol.
In a way, I feel like all this freedom lets me truly focus on learning the material without all the stress. I couldn't be happier. I can't wait to hit the books!
It is official, according to the lady I called lol (1-800-232-1694)
My school is P/F (Columbia) and the Test is P/F.
Sincerely, I couldn't be happier (explanation below).
😀
I did way lower on the DAT (than I realistically expected) bec/ I was so stressed out to get the really high scores I kept getting on all practice exams. Turns out the whole week before, I could only sleep like ~2 hours per night bec/ I was so stressed out. And I was falling asleep, dozing off throughout the test. Yes, making it P/F, will make me way less stressed.
I guess some ppl are worried that others will just coast through the test just to get the "P" while the rest of us are truly trying to learn the most so we can do great, even though it is only P/F. So they are worried that other ppl who scored less will be in the same group as us ("P")? I am not really worried about competition with others though, just with myself. I know that sounds cheesy lol.
In a way, I feel like all this freedom lets me truly focus on learning the material without all the stress. I couldn't be happier. I can't wait to hit the books!
Here is the memo:
This won't make a difference for anyone who doesn't want to specialize.
It will hurt you if you are prepared, and good at these kinds of tests, and want to specialize. If you are in a P/F, no rank school, it's even gonna be worse.
It will help you if you are not prepared, and bad at these kinds of tests, and want to specialize.
Someone should stop these guys from messing up with the system. Having no grades, no board exams, and no ranking ---> Most students (talking about 99%, including me) will only strive for a passing grade in every single class ---> no one will care about didactics anymore ---> dentistry will turn into potery.
Always, there has to be a motive for something to be done. There would be no desire for learning organic chemistry well in undergrad, if the student was not supposed to get a high Ochem score on the DAT to get in dental school.
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It does indeed. how are you going to be distinguished (in case you deserve it) in a class of 80 by competing with yourself, when there are no grades, no ranks, and no board exam scores.
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actually Columbia is P/F/Honors
this isn't going to mitigate any stress its only going to make things more stressful for those who want to specialize.
But I'll see you next year playa good choice for school 👍😎
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And using your own reasoning, how are you going to be distinguished in a city with several hundred dentists when there are no grades, no rankings, etc? You have to want it for yourself not just for a grade or ranking.
You are distinguished among other dentists in a city based on your good dental and communication skills, while you are dintinguished in dental school for especializing based on the amount of hard work you put into studying and learning the skills. What has the measure for assesing one's education been since elementary school? The answer is grades! I don't see how dental school would be different. No grades, ranks, and board scores equals a lack of assesment for the time and energy students spend in dental school.
Just because I want to have my grades for further assesment does not mean that I learn the material merely to get a good grade or ranking.
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I'm cool with having it p/f, if the purpose is just to make sure dentist have reached a certain adequate level, and that is the scope of the exam, then p/f makes sense
they just should have noted that a new specialization test/criteria will be created to account change to p/f
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I like the idea of P/F boards but, as many people have mentioned on this thread, I do not see how those wanting to specialize are going to be distinguished. It seems like it is going to suck for the c/o 2013 at a school that takes part I after the first year (as well as the c/o 2012 who take it after 2nd year) because we will be the guinea pigs. Honestly, if I choose to specialize I am sure I will feel like I have worked too hard to have it all come down to some specialization test they cook up in a year's time. I really cannot see, though, any other option besides a such a test. Many schools have courses/reviews based on what the test has been like historically and this will not be possible with a test they have just created. I sure hope this is something that the specialties have been preparing for!
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I appreciate your comment but disagree with part of your reply. Your statement basing distinction in dental school "on the amount of hard work you put into studying and learning the skills" does not coorelate well with what I see in my class. There are people who work 10x as hard as others studying and practicing their skills and some of these are performing a levels below that of people who barely pick up a book and don't come in after hours to practice preps, etc. So if assessment is "for the time and energy students spend", the system is failing.
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So, correct me if I'm wrong... the only argument for the switch is that the exam wasn't designed to assess your readiness for a specialty program.
If that is the case, then even though it wasn't DESIGNED for that purpose, why doesn't it FUNCTION in that way? And if there is a switch, how can they make it without first designing a test (and improving it over at least a few years) that assesses your readiness for a specialty in a better way.
I just don't understand the benefit of switching from graded to pass/fail on an exam that isn't subjective to what school you attend.
If that is the case, then even though it wasn't DESIGNED for that purpose, why doesn't it FUNCTION in that way? And if there is a switch, how can they make it without first designing a test (and improving it over at least a few years) that assesses your readiness for a specialty in a better way.
I just don't understand the benefit of switching from graded to pass/fail on an exam that isn't subjective to what school you attend.
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i bet when it finally does go P/F all specialty programs will require GRE scores until a suitable residency admissions test is created, if that ever happens. some specialty programs already do require a GRE score anyway.
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wow studying for that test won't be the ultimate waste of time 🙄
This will be the most epic BS ever. Because math and verbal is a great comparison to the pure science that is the boards. 👎
That was bad wording on my part. I agree that the time someone puts in something is not representative of how well they learn it. I should have said "based on how well you learn the material and skills". Well, grades don't measure the time you put in learning anyway.
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Are you sure of what are you saying here?! I called the ADA and they confirmed that if you'd request a score report after 2010 for your exam taken prior to 2010 that it would be an exact duplicate of your current score report. which means the score will be there. can you please post a link of your infos.
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If the test goes to pass/fail then it will probably mean that GPA or Pass/NP with distinctions or any honors would filter applications and interviews will be the most important.
Wouldn't an actual score be recorded and just not shown on your results?
Wouldn't an actual score be recorded and just not shown on your results?
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I guess I like the idea. Takes the stress off. I can focus on doing well in my classes.... and then focus on doing well on the boards without having to worry about competing with others.
Doesn't really help those going to a school with a P/NP system....there has to be some way they plan on accounting for this. Obviously if you get a NP in anything you are screwed--especially if you don't have a nice board score to back it up, right?? I don't know that much about it but the idea to have some schools with P/NP and some with grades seems silly....(if they go through with this idea)
Doesn't really help those going to a school with a P/NP system....there has to be some way they plan on accounting for this. Obviously if you get a NP in anything you are screwed--especially if you don't have a nice board score to back it up, right?? I don't know that much about it but the idea to have some schools with P/NP and some with grades seems silly....(if they go through with this idea)
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No... Part 1 boards are designed to test proficiency in the basic sciences. They have sent a benchmark for a passing score (75) that all dental students need to reach in order to move on into their dental careers. The way it stands now, students get a numerical score which is either 75+ (pass), or below 75 (fail).
The conversion to P/F will just keep than number secret and award you a P or F. This conversion will not suddenly raise the bar and make it more difficult to pass. The level of proficiency needed in the basic sciences for dental students is already set, the only thing changing would be how they report it. Everyone 75 and above would be equal and receive a P.
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