navy gmo/umo/FS question

[CanuckianSatori]

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This topic has been brought up, but I need a clear answer that my recruiter can't provide. I'm an MS1 considering a 3-year HPSP scholarship. I'm interested in serving as a GMO (preferably a UMO) and getting out to pursue a civilian residency. I want to the diversity of experience the navy can offer and I want to serve, but I don't think I want a Navy residency.

With a 3-year HPSP scholarship, what would my payback be as a GMO or UMO? The payback chart that has been floating around on the forum doesn't clearly define this. My recruiter told me the Navy internship year that precedes GMO/UMO would count as a year of payback, but that seems like a flat-out lie. Would I have one year of internship and three years as a GMO/UMO? Would I have have a one-year internship, two years as a GMO/UMO/FS and get out? Does the extra training for UMO or FS count towards my obligation, or does my payback not start until I finish that training? I know the FS and UMO training is at least 6 months.

Also, how competitive is UMO? I know it varies year by year, but that's the position I'm most interested in. What are they looking at in applicants? Will i be competing against docs who have already finished a residency?

 

[pgg]

With a 3-year HPSP scholarship, what would my payback be as a GMO or UMO?

3 years after internship. UMO/FS tours are 3 years to begin with, and you'd owe 3 years for HPSP.

Would I have one year of internship and three years as a GMO/UMO?

Yes. PGY1 does not count toward payback, nor does it incur additional obligation.

Also, how competitive is UMO? I know it varies year by year, but that's the position I'm most interested in. What are they looking at in applicants? Will i be competing against docs who have already finished a residency?

I can't comment on competitiveness, except to say that I think most who want it get it, but there's a fair amount of self-selection. For every one guy who wants UMO there are probably 10 who don't want it. There doesn't seem to be the same level of interest as in FS (which includes flight training and so is popular). Fitness seems to be more important than with FS or other GMO tours.

I believe that historically, residency trained docs didn't do UMO tours, so you wouldn't be competing with them. However the Navy has stated its intention to phase out GMOs and replace them with BC physicians, so I suppose there may be some people post-residency who've been slotted for GMO duty, who might want UMO billets.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

pgg stole my answer

 

[CanuckianSatori]

Thanks for the fast reply guys! Another question:

pgg, you mentioned FS is more sought after than UMO. Is there a particular reason for this? Why do some docs prefer FS to UMO and vice versa? And how does being a fleet/marine GMO compare with those two jobs?

 

[TheGoose]

Another question:

pgg, you mentioned FS is more sought after than UMO. Is there a particular reason for this?

the need.......the need for speed.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Thanks for the fast reply guys! Another question:

pgg, you mentioned FS is more sought after than UMO. Is there a particular reason for this? Why do some docs prefer FS to UMO and vice versa? And how does being a fleet/marine GMO compare with those two jobs?

You can be a fat flight surgeon.

 

[pgg]

You can be a fat flight surgeon.

You can be a fat greenside GMO too, but they won't let you fly planes.

More people like the idea of flying than swimming.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

You can be a fat greenside GMO too, but they won't let you fly planes.

More people like the idea of flying than swimming.

Duty station has a lot to do with it. Most FS billets are squadron-level and combat air, even P-3s. The assignments can be attractive, and are usually with the pointy part of the spear organizations. Home bases are in generally nice places.

In UMO, unless you get detailed to special ops (and some do, but not many) one typical assignment is to a sub group assigned to a sub tender. There, you might be a department head, but you will be spending a lot of time seeing sick call and taking care of medical needs of a surface ship--the tender crew, and less time with the sub crews. You can also be detailed to local medical clinics for general sick call and ED duties and are usually expected to staff a UMO-only chamber watch for emergency recompressions, which can end up being covered by very few UMOs, if you get my drift. At best, you might go on a workup cruise but not on a full deployment, except on the tender. The sub bases are Groton, CT, Kings Bay, GA, San Diego (Pt. Loma--nice), Bangor, WA and Pearl Harbor, HI. Overseas, there is still a base at Yokosuka, Japan.

 

[FNU LNU]

I remember going through pre-flight indoctrination with 10-15 future flight surgeons. They did all the same fun classroom, pool, survival and PT training that we did. They went out to the P-Cola bars with us and generally hard a relaxing, fun time post intern year.

One night we were out at the Florabama and I met an intern-year friend of theirs who was going through UMOC at Panama Beach. He had a lot of stories about being in the front leaning rest, elbow deep in a snow bank at 0500 because one of his classmates had screwed up. Definately not for everyone...

Question: can anyone breakdown the relative percentage of UMOC graduates who go to different communities? i.e. what percent go to SEAL teams v. EOD v. Dive v. Subs. What are the more coveted assignments? Also, what are the prospects for being a DMO for a Marine unit?

Thanks

 

[CanuckianSatori]

Question: can anyone breakdown the relative percentage of UMOC graduates who go to different communities? i.e. what percent go to SEAL teams v. EOD v. Dive v. Subs. What are the more coveted assignments? Also, what are the prospects for being a DMO for a Marine unit?

Yeah, does anyone know this? I'm curious what my odds are. The one UMO I spoke with made it sound like you had to "tough it out" with a submarine tender tour for two years before you could have the option of an EOD or SEAL tour. And I've also heard that you can't get on a SEAL unit as a UMO unless you're a previous operator or board certified FP or EM.

 

[MSS07]

THis might be a realy dumb question but Can someone explain to me what this PGY1 thing is, is that the one year of internship before you become a GMO? Do people who go "straight through" to residency still have to do the internship.

 

[dwb8p]

THis might be a realy dumb question but Can someone explain to me what this PGY1 thing is, is that the one year of internship before you become a GMO? Do people who go "straight through" to residency still have to do the internship.

yes, yes.

 

[Trajan]

I remember going through pre-flight indoctrination with 10-15 future flight surgeons. They did all the same fun classroom, pool, survival and PT training that we did. They went out to the P-Cola bars with us and generally hard a relaxing, fun time post intern year.

One night we were out at the Florabama and I met an intern-year friend of theirs who was going through UMOC at Panama Beach. He had a lot of stories about being in the front leaning rest, elbow deep in a snow bank at 0500 because one of his classmates had screwed up. Definately not for everyone...

Question: can anyone breakdown the relative percentage of UMOC graduates who go to different communities? i.e. what percent go to SEAL teams v. EOD v. Dive v. Subs. What are the more coveted assignments? Also, what are the prospects for being a DMO for a Marine unit?

The billets for some recent UMO classes broke down like this:

CLASS #1
Submarine Groups or support centers: 4
EOD: 1
Dive School: 1
Research: 2 (1 NEDU, 1 subs)
Clinic: 1
BUDS (not a SEAL job per se, but a training command for SEAL candidates): 1
SEALS: 1 (reserved for EM LCDR)
UMO Program Manager: 1

CLASS #2
Submarine Groups or support centers: 3
Sub tenders: 1
Health Clinic: 2
EOD: 2
SEALS: 1
Research: 2 (NEDU)
Dive School: 1

 

[FNU LNU]

Thanks Trajan - I've been surfing the internet for a couple years looking for the answer to that one. So no billets with the Marines? Also, can you please tell us which billets tend to be highly sought after and why?

 

[MSS07]

Which GMO would be the best in terms of medical experience? I am thinking anything with he marines, might see something interesting oversees? are my assumptions correct?

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Which GMO would be the best in terms of medical experience? I am thinking anything with he marines, might see something interesting oversees? are my assumptions correct?

Every GMO will be filled wtih non-complex sick call and tons of beauracratic administrative work. A big ship might let you see more pathology because you'll have surgical capability and more people=more sickness.

Your assumptions aren't correct. When you go "oversees" you will still man sick call for your guys and do the above-mentioned admin work.

 

[uhshopeful]

I'm planning on attending UHS for the navy and shooting for a trauma surgery residency. If I did a GMO with the Marines, would I do anything other than administrative stuff or would I be able to choose a deploying unit and do real surgery?

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

I'm planning on attending UHS for the navy and shooting for a trauma surgery residency. If I did a GMO with the Marines, would I do anything other than administrative stuff or would I be able to choose a deploying unit and do real surgery?

First of all there is no such thing as a trauma surgery residency. There's general surgery and then you can do a trauma fellowship afterwards.

By in large, as a GMO you won't operate. The one's who have done a lot of surgical stuff were in some pretty bad situations and probably wouldn't wish that on anybody because they were under-trained and unsupported (surgically)

 

[pgg]

would I be able to choose a deploying unit and do real surgery?

At best, you might be lucky enough to wind up near a surgical team, and one of the surgeons MIGHT take pity on you and let you scrub in on a case or two. You might get to hold a retractor or squeeze the staple gun a couple times to close the skin. Some GMOs may have the title "Battalion Surgeon" but they're not surgeons.

What's UHS? Do you mean USUHS?