Navy HPSP Rejected

[2000 Man]

I recently was informed by my recruiter that I was not selected for the Navy HPSP. I am guessing that the reason had to do with having been previously dismissed from my school. After addressing the issue that led to my dismissal I was readmitted to the same school and I am now in my second year and doing very well.

I am planning on re-submitting my packet at the end of this semester. Anyone have any experience with resubmittiing after non-selection? Chances? Advice on how to improve my app? Thanks

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[orbitsurgMD]

I recently was informed by my recruiter that I was not selected for the Navy HPSP. I am guessing that the reason had to do with having been previously dismissed from my school. After addressing the issue that led to my dismissal I was readmitted to the same school and I am now in my second year and doing very well.

I am planning on re-submitting my packet at the end of this semester. Anyone have any experience with resubmittiing after non-selection? Chances? Advice on how to improve my app? Thanks

Work hard and do as well as possible.

Not everything that looks like a setback proves to be one. As one of my Physics professors had pasted to his door: "success can close just as many doors as failure."

 

[jabreal00]

I recently was informed by my recruiter that I was not selected for the Navy HPSP. I am guessing that the reason had to do with having been previously dismissed from my school. After addressing the issue that led to my dismissal I was readmitted to the same school and I am now in my second year and doing very well.

I am planning on re-submitting my packet at the end of this semester. Anyone have any experience with resubmittiing after non-selection? Chances? Advice on how to improve my app? Thanks

Dude you are in your second year. realistically you are looking to get a 2 year scholarship for your remaining last two years. Army and Airforce have gotten rid of those. I am not aware if Navy still has this. If paying your loans is a priority, finish school, do a civilian residency and then apply for the FAP if you want to be active duty. Alternatively you can go the reserve route. Just a thought.

 

[IgD]

Even if you were to get in the HPSP program you'd have an uphill battle trying to get a residency position. It would probably be easier to get a residency spot as a civilian. If you really want to join the military come in through the FAP program or as a direct accession once you get board certified.

 

[2000 Man]

Why would it be an uphill battle getting a residency spot?

 

[IgD]

Why would it be an uphill battle getting a residency spot?

In the military you are only guaranteed an internship position. There are some exceptions but especially in the Navy during your internship you will have to apply for a PGY2 position. If you don't make the cut which is a possibility since you've already got red flags on your record, you will be shipped out to the fleet as a General Medical Officer. (Reference: http://www.militarymedicine.com/gmo) At the end of your GMO tour, you'll have to apply for a PGY2 position again. If you don't get it then you will have to keep doing consecutive GMO tours.

My advice is prove to the world whatever situation caused the red flag is resolved. Get good board scores, letters of recommendation and demonstrate that you have learned from your mistakes. The red flag won't be an issue.

There was an Army psychiatrist with a mediocre record who apparently went crazy and killed a bunch of people at Fort Hood. In the aftermath, everyone asked why he was allowed to graduate medical school, residency and fellowship. I don't know for certain but I suspect the military medical system is going through a time of hypersensitivity to red flags.

 

[IgD]

Hey the other thing about this is that any time you do anything in medicine like apply for a job, obtain a medical license they will review your medical school transcripts. If you are still in medical school you still have a tremendous opportunity to get a good Dean's letter.

For example, wouldn't it be nice if the Dean wrote you had a problem but were responsible, learned from your mistakes and demonstrated a sustained pattern of improvement. He could write he would recommend you without hesitation. You should ask the Dean about it during your senior year.

 

[2000 Man]

Hey the other thing about this is that any time you do anything in medicine like apply for a job, obtain a medical license they will review your medical school transcripts. If you are still in medical school you still have a tremendous opportunity to get a good Dean's letter.

For example, wouldn't it be nice if the Dean wrote you had a problem but were responsible, learned from your mistakes and demonstrated a sustained pattern of improvement. He could write he would recommend you without hesitation. You should ask the Dean about it during your senior year.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insight on this situation. I really appreciate it.

But let me ask you this; The red flags on my record occured in 2007. Since then I was re-admitted by the school that originally dismissed me and have maintained good grades (and participated in some research). If the Navy selects me for HPSP, by the time I am looking at applying for PGY 1 positions it will be 2012 (5 years after my red flags) and I will have 3 years of good grades and boards scores under my belt and hopefully some positve/good LORs.

At that point wouldn't all that plus the fact that a Navy med board selected me for HPSP begin to minimize some of the damage the red flags may have caused? My hope would be to get a FP or Ob-gyn spot after doing a tour as a flight surgeon. So by the time I am looking at PGY 2 I would be anywhere from 6-10 years beyond my initial problems with grades board scores and LORs to support my app.

 

[Navybabydoc]

If you get selected for PGY1 after three years of good grades and LOR and do well in internship, my opinion would be you would have just as good a chance at continuing to PGY 2 as anyone else. Especially in OB and/or FP. FP in the Navy is currently undermanned, likely through 2012

 

[haujun]

I recently was informed by my recruiter that I was not selected for the Navy HPSP. I am guessing that the reason had to do with having been previously dismissed from my school. After addressing the issue that led to my dismissal I was readmitted to the same school and I am now in my second year and doing very well.

I am planning on re-submitting my packet at the end of this semester. Anyone have any experience with resubmittiing after non-selection? Chances? Advice on how to improve my app? Thanks

Talk to your recruiter so he can get input from the board member to find out the reasons for your non-selection.

 

[2000 Man]

Talk to your recruiter so he can get input from the board member to find out the reasons for your non-selection.

I went back to my recruiter on two occasions (after finding out I was not selected) and he said that they did not give a reason and that they typically do not give specific reasons.

Now I will tell you why I am finding this so frustrating; I originally submitted my packet to the board last August and they did not reject me but said they wanted to see the results of my first year's grades. Now my grades were pretty good (88% avg) and along with my ECs and LORs my packet could have only looked stronger. And then it comes back with "not selected" and no explanation.

If the reason for my nonselect was my previous red flags in my history wouldn't they have just rejected me the first time? Is an 88% avg not good enough? Or was it simply the result of different people on the board this time as opposed to last year?

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

Though unrelated to your situation, my Navy recruiter said that one of his other applicants was just rejected for having a 22 on his/her MCAT. That is the minimum score required for applying.

Just wanted to get this info on the thread for anyone looking for more general info as to things that might prevent them from receiving the HPSP

 

[Kris1]

Though unrelated to your situation, my Navy recruiter said that one of his other applicants was just rejected for having a 22 on his/her MCAT. That is the minimum score required for applying.

Just wanted to get this info on the thread for anyone looking for more general info as to things that might prevent them from receiving the HPSP

It's funny to me how much emphasis the military puts on MCAT scores. You would think it would be a moot point considering that you are in medical school already. I'm a PGY-1 in EM applying for the FAP and the first two questions I get asked by recruiters are about my height and weight (understandable) and what my MCAT score was. I can't even remember my MCAT score.

 

[MightyMoose]

It's funny to me how much emphasis the military puts on MCAT scores. You would think it would be a moot point considering that you are in medical school already. I'm a PGY-1 in EM applying for the FAP and the first two questions I get asked by recruiters are about my height and weight (understandable) and what my MCAT score was. I can't even remember my MCAT score.

You can find that here:

https://services.aamc.org/mcatthx/

 

[haujun]

I went back to my recruiter on two occasions (after finding out I was not selected) and he said that they did not give a reason and that they typically do not give specific reasons.

Now I will tell you why I am finding this so frustrating; I originally submitted my packet to the board last August and they did not reject me but said they wanted to see the results of my first year's grades. Now my grades were pretty good (88% avg) and along with my ECs and LORs my packet could have only looked stronger. And then it comes back with "not selected" and no explanation.

If the reason for my nonselect was my previous red flags in my history wouldn't they have just rejected me the first time? Is an 88% avg not good enough? Or was it simply the result of different people on the board this time as opposed to last year?

I am sure they look at combination of factors and vote on them. Also the fact that you are applying for 2 year scholarship does not help. There may be limited number of 2 year scholarship (if available) and they are given in the order of merits.

 

[NavyFP]

There are a number of factors looked at when considering applicants. Grades, MCATs, prior performance in med school are all part. When there are low grades or MCATs, the student is at a greater risk of failure. There are studies that have shown that individual MCAT scores less than 8 confer a significant increase in failure rates on part 1 of boards (both USMLE and COMLEX). For the OP, dismissal from medical school is not common and med schools work very hard to graduate every student they matriculate. Despite the changes you have made in your life, you still pose a significant risk of academic problems in the future. There are enough struggling students in the program why potentially add to the headache. At this moment in time, they have more applicants than spots, so they can be choosy.

 

[Jet915]

There are a number of factors looked at when considering applicants. Grades, MCATs, prior performance in med school are all part. When there are low grades or MCATs, the student is at a greater risk of failure. There are studies that have shown that individual MCAT scores less than 8 confer a significant increase in failure rates on part 1 of boards (both USMLE and COMLEX). For the OP, dismissal from medical school is not common and med schools work very hard to graduate every student they matriculate. Despite the changes you have made in your life, you still pose a significant risk of academic problems in the future. There are enough struggling students in the program why potentially add to the headache. At this moment in time, they have more applicants than spots, so they can be choosy.

Agree, I recently talked to a recruiter about the reserves and he told me there are tons of HPSP applicants for all branches and not enough spots so they can be choosy now.

 

[haujun]

Agree, I recently talked to a recruiter about the reserves and he told me there are tons of HPSP applicants for all branches and not enough spots so they can be choosy now.

I wonder why there are increasing number of HPSP applicants? Is there similar trend existing for military physicians as well (number of military physicians staying past their obligation)? I wonder where are these negative posters (galo, milmed etc...)? They have not been posting so HPSP applicants have gone up??

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I wonder why there are increasing number of HPSP applicants? Is there similar trend existing for military physicians as well (number of military physicians staying past their obligation)? I wonder where are these negative posters (galo, milmed etc...)? They have not been posting so HPSP applicants have gone up??

I doubt that the tone of critics of HPSP on this board alone had all that much influence on the recruitment numbers before and the lesser frequency of those posts probably hasn't had much to do with the recent uptick in applications or in filling the quotas. Even as both may be true, there is not likely a causal relationship.

Medical schools are relentlessly raising tuition levels and there is more reporting broadly of primary care doctors, and even some specialists, being squeezed by dropping insurance and Medicare payment, or at least static payment in the face of rising practice costs. There aren't many scholarship funds in professional schools, and programs like HPSP may be receiving increased interest due to general uncertainty about the financial prospects of a career in medicine. The subtext of the Obama health reform plan is for broader coverage but at the expense (unstated, but one can read the tea leaves) of decreasing fees for services. While there remains to be proven that this kind of plan can work (I think it can't--you can't legislate lower prices without affecting quality and/or destroying supply) that all adds to the climate of apprehension and uncertainty. The military services are the unwitting beneficiaries.

Keep in mind, there is a huge difference between getting a few more applicants that allows the small luxury of choosing among them while maintaining the minimum accession quota and having a high-quality applicant pool and meaningful competition for scholarship slots, as was once the case. Except for the handful of service academy graduates who are forced into HPSP as a condition of being granted permission to go directly to medical school without first serving their line service obligations, the military isn't getting many applications from top schools, despite the supposed motivator of their high costs. The fact that they can exclude a few borderline applicants from osteopathic schools isn't really a reason to crack the good bubbly just yet. It has been a long time since the services could boast about their attractiveness, and they aren't anywhere close to being back to where they once were.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

.

 

[AF M4]

I wonder why there are increasing number of HPSP applicants? Is there similar trend existing for military physicians as well (number of military physicians staying past their obligation)? I wonder where are these negative posters (galo, milmed etc...)? They have not been posting so HPSP applicants have gone up??

What am I, chopped liver? Blast, my devilish plot to destroy the entire military medical system using only an online forum has been for naught!

(Kidding of course, for all you censors out there.)

Orbitsburg's post is very insightful.

 

[FlyDoc34]

Consider this a blessing that you've been turned down for an HPSP scholarship. Sounds way cooler than it actually is, trust me. Been there, done that for 11 years before wising up and departing. Put down the application and walk away....don't look back....

 

[Jet915]

Though unrelated to your situation, my Navy recruiter said that one of his other applicants was just rejected for having a 22 on his/her MCAT. That is the minimum score required for applying.

Just wanted to get this info on the thread for anyone looking for more general info as to things that might prevent them from receiving the HPSP

Someone got into med school with a 22 mcat? Wow, that is REALLY low.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

Someone got into med school with a 22 mcat? Wow, that is REALLY low.

word

 

[rblgenius]

Consider this a blessing that you've been turned down for an HPSP scholarship. Sounds way cooler than it actually is, trust me. Been there, done that for 11 years before wising up and departing. Put down the application and walk away....don't look back....

What did you not like about the HPSP?

 

[addo]

Consider this a blessing that you've been turned down for an HPSP scholarship. Sounds way cooler than it actually is, trust me. Been there, done that for 11 years before wising up and departing. Put down the application and walk away....don't look back....

In addition to rblgenius' question, Id also like to know why 11 years. If the requirement is 8 years, then it took you an additional 3 years to figure out it wasnt for you?

 

[Kris1]

In addition to rblgenius' question, Id also like to know why 11 years. If the requirement is 8 years, then it took you an additional 3 years to figure out it wasnt for you?

It's a 4-year commitment giving even more credence to the question.

 

[teacherman84]

In addition to rblgenius' question, Id also like to know why 11 years. If the requirement is 8 years, then it took you an additional 3 years to figure out it wasnt for you?

4 years in school, 3 years for residency, 4 years payback. 11 years affiliated with the military. Thats not including any IRR years after separation. Only 4 of the years will be on active duty, unless he did a mil residency, then 7 years were AD.

 

[pgg]

It's a 4-year commitment giving even more credence to the question.

Don't neglect to consider the effect of GMO time too, and how inservice residencies incur obligated service too.

4 years medical school (4 years owed)
1 year internship (4 years still owed)
2 year GMO tour (2 years still owed)
3 year residency (3 years now owed)
3 years payback

13 years

 

[glamqueen]

Don't neglect to consider the effect of GMO time too, and how inservice residencies incur obligated service too.

4 years medical school (4 years owed)
1 year internship (4 years still owed)
2 year GMO tour (2 years still owed)
3 year residency (3 years now owed)
3 years payback

13 years

I really do get that this board tends to be very negative about experiences with the military, and that is fine, because it is your own experiences you are talking about. Fair enough. However, I don't understand why you guys are counting the four years in med school. This is not a malignant time period. Yes, you are "technically" military, but we are inactive. Uncle Sam basically bothers me to recertify online once a year, and then he pays me once a month and reimburses me for my books. I don't understand why this is lumped in with the "miserable" military time. I do understand if you find the active duty time or residency in the military unsavory if that is your experience; however, what is the big gripe about med school inactive military status? I don't seem to have much of a problem with mine thus far, and my friends who have gone through liked their rotations just fine also and didn't have a problem with the school time either.

Or was this included just for a general time count since commissioning?

 

[pgg]

I really do get that this board tends to be very negative about experiences with the military, and that is fine, because it is your own experiences you are talking about. Fair enough. However, I don't understand why you guys are counting the four years in med school. This is not a malignant time period. Yes, you are "technically" military, but we are inactive. Uncle Sam basically bothers me to recertify online once a year, and then he pays me once a month and reimburses me for my books. I don't understand why this is lumped in with the "miserable" military time. I do understand if you find the active duty time or residency in the military unsavory if that is your experience; however, what is the big gripe about med school inactive military status? I don't seem to have much of a problem with mine thus far, and my friends who have gone through liked their rotations just fine also and didn't have a problem with the school time either.

Or was this included just for a general time count since commissioning?

I'm really NOT negative about my overall Navy experience. Quite the contrary actually, despite the ISP shenanigans and bureaucratic hassles. If you have about 6 days to kill you could dredge up my posts about being a GMO and doing an inservice residency, and they are far more to the positive than the negative side.

You're right, it's probably not fair to count med school time in the tally, even though the military does technically own you during that period, however hands-off the system is. But there are a LOT more who don't understand how the clock ticks when there are med school and residency paybacks owed, or how fellowships fit in, or how their choice of residency may extend their payback even if they don't do GMO time, or how the numbers change if an MSP contract is signed before or after a FTOS fellowship slot is accepted. The system is complicated, and almost universally poorly understood, and the end result is ALMOST always more time owed than initially thought.

The day I showed up to my interview at USUHS, I thought the 7 year commitment meant that I'd be done 7 years to the day after I graduated from medical school.

 

[glamqueen]

I'm really NOT negative about my overall Navy experience. Quite the contrary actually, despite the ISP shenanigans and bureaucratic hassles. If you have about 6 days to kill you could dredge up my posts about being a GMO and doing an inservice residency, and they are far more to the positive than the negative side.

You're right, it's probably not fair to count med school time in the tally, even though the military does technically own you during that period, however hands-off the system is. But there are a LOT more who don't understand how the clock ticks when there are med school and residency paybacks owed, or how fellowships fit in, or how their choice of residency may extend their payback even if they don't do GMO time, or how the numbers change if an MSP contract is signed before or after a FTOS fellowship slot is accepted. The system is complicated, and almost universally poorly understood, and the end result is ALMOST always more time owed than initially thought.

The day I showed up to my interview at USUHS, I thought the 7 year commitment meant that I'd be done 7 years to the day after I graduated from medical school.

Gotcha - that makes sense now. And I agree with you - there is an insane amount of ignorance from even those that are actually already signed on with HPSP on how the system works. I've seen some scary levels of ignorance on these boards from people on how payback is owed. Not that that is a slam to them - it is rather complicated, and it can be confusing depending on who you spent the majority of your time talking to (hopefully not a recruiter).