Nbde p/np and its effect on matching

[GravityxZero35]

---

Members do not see this ad.

For those of you who matched into specialty programs, how did the nbde being p/np change your chances at matching? Is it advantageous to attend a p/np dental school now since the boards are p/np as well? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[cbizzle7994]

For those of you who matched into specialty programs, how did the nbde being p/np change your chances at matching? Is it advantageous to attend a p/np dental school now since the boards are p/np as well? Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

For OMFS, thankfully we have the NBME CBSE. Basically the only change is that we have one extra [bitch of a] test to study for. I go to a school that doesn't rank or have GPA and I know my friends going into ortho had trouble getting interviews. Multiple program directors actually told them "how can we differentiate you from the hundreds of other applicants if you have no boards scores, no GPA, and no class rank?" So unless you go into one of the specialty feeder dental schools like Harvard or Columbia, P/F boards and classes can hurt you.

 

[GravityxZero35]

For OMFS, thankfully we have the NBME CBSE. Basically the only change is that we have one extra [bitch of a] test to study for. I go to a school that doesn't rank or have GPA and I know my friends going into ortho had trouble getting interviews. Multiple program directors actually told them "how can we differentiate you from the hundreds of other applicants if you have no boards scores, no GPA, and no class rank?" So unless you go into one of the specialty feeder dental schools like Harvard or Columbia, P/F boards and classes can hurt you.

Thanks for ur input! What do you think about ucsf? If you dont mind me asking, which school do you attend?

 

[Member 6236]

For OMFS, thankfully we have the NBME CBSE. Basically the only change is that we have one extra [bitch of a] test to study for. I go to a school that doesn't rank or have GPA and I know my friends going into ortho had trouble getting interviews. Multiple program directors actually told them "how can we differentiate you from the hundreds of other applicants if you have no boards scores, no GPA, and no class rank?" So unless you go into one of the specialty feeder dental schools like Harvard or Columbia, P/F boards and classes can hurt you.

Exactly this. Going to a P/NP school is going to hurt you for specializing UNLESS you wanted OMFS due to the CBSE.

 

[GravityxZero35]

Anyone else has any input?

 

[UCSFx2017]

Anyone else has any input?

Outside of the few prestigious P/F schools, there are only a few other schools that are P/F. The prestigious schools that are P/F, H/P/F, or 1-11 ranking continue to have a high placement in specialty programs. That includes Harvard, UCLA, UCSF, Columbia, and Penn.

UCSF went from traditional ranking to P/F in 2007. Before and after they made the change, UCSF continued to have a high specialization rate. It may have even raised the specialization rate, maybe not causally but at least coincidentally. Although UCSF is P/F for the first two years, the last two years are Letter of Commendation/P/F. The letter of recommendation that the school sends out to specialty programs are also worded in such a way that program directors should be able to interpret the student's academic standing. For example, they can be worded as "student [x] is recommended" or "student [y] is highly recommended". UCSF internalizes all the grading among students but does not give out any specific ranking.

 

[herkulis]

Exactly this. Going to a P/NP school is going to hurt you for specializing UNLESS you wanted OMFS due to the CBSE.

Can one go to p/np, non-ivy dental school (like LECOM, for example) and aim for OMFS specialization as long as he/she does well on the CBSE?

 

[Member 6236]

Can one go to p/np, non-ivy dental school (like LECOM, for example) and aim for OMFS specialization as long as he/she does well on the CBSE?

I'm sure you can....but not having an OMFS department is a bad thing. You won't get to explore OMFS as deeply as you should or get the chance to get letters from OMFS faculty....so you would have to do that on externships. Overall, it'll be a LOT harder and I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[HamPorter]

Don't forget to show UConn (P/F) some love! The 4th year class of 40ish students went 7/8 for ortho and 5/5 for OMFS this year.

 

[GravityxZero35]

So it sounds like by attending p/np schools that have the specialty programs of interest will not put you at a disadvantage compared to students in ranked schools?

 

[Member 6236]

So it sounds like by attending p/np schools that have the specialty programs of interest will not put you at a disadvantage compared to students in ranked schools?

Check out the OMS coordinator thread. He clearly says it is much harder to make a decision about a candidate's application if the school is P/NP. Think about it. If someone wanted to do Pedo and the school didn't have grades, a class rank, AND the dental boards are pass/fail.....then how can they possibly gauge that applicant? The only thing they could go off of would be letters and extracurriculars which never make up the bulk of any application.

Luckily OMFS has the CBSE to gauge applicants. But for all other specialties, you have an advantage by having grades and a class rank (but of course you will have to work your butt off to maintain your position near the top).

 

[sgv]

Check out the OMS coordinator thread. He clearly says it is much harder to make a decision about a candidate's application if the school is P/NP. Think about it. If someone wanted to do Pedo and the school didn't have grades, a class rank, AND the dental boards are pass/fail.....then how can they possibly gauge that applicant? The only thing they could go off of would be letters and extracurriculars which never make up the bulk of any application.

Luckily OMFS has the CBSE to gauge applicants. But for all other specialties, you have an advantage by having grades and a class rank (but of course you will have to work your butt off to maintain your position near the top).

Ortho has GRE. Perio/Pedo/Prosth/etc. were never as difficult to get in as OMFS and Ortho soooo....boards being P/F shouldn't be that big of a deal...with that said, pedo is getting more competitive every year. Pedo likes to look at personality fit and general operative skills.

UC's and Ivy's with P/F or H/P/F end up matching a ton at pedo every year soooo...at least 12-15 matching at ortho and >5 at omfs is normal for these schools.

if your P/F school happens to be a non-ivy or non-UC and is generally considered easy to get in as a predent, you're probably going to have a bad time matching...i'm not saying that necessarily happens...it's just my speculation since I don't know their match rate because no one ever talks about ridiculously high match rate coming from these new private schools.

 

[sgv]

So it sounds like by attending p/np schools that have the specialty programs of interest will not put you at a disadvantage compared to students in ranked schools?

You need specialty departments to shadow, extern, and maybe ask for LORs

 

[Bereno]

Don't forget to show UConn (P/F) some love! The 4th year class of 40ish students went 7/8 for ortho and 5/5 for OMFS this year.

Well said Ham.

Lol, it seems like UConn is the unnoticed IVY of the non IVYs. I think people tend to forget that we match nearly all of our ortho and OMFS applicants. That, and we are a true P/F school - none of that H/P/F (A/B/F) stuff here haha.

 

[sgv]

Well said Ham.

Lol, it seems like UConn is the unnoticed IVY of the non IVYs. I think people tend to forget that we match nearly all of our ortho and OMFS applicants. That, and we are a true P/F school - none of that H/P/F (A/B/F) stuff here haha.

Honestly, I think UConn is the best dental school in the U.S. I don't even go there.

 

[UCLADDS2015]

UCLA used to regularly match around 15 people to Ortho every year. I believe this will be much harder going forward due to P/F boards. When 15 people are applying from the same school without a class rank or board score, it is extremely difficult to decide who to accept or even who to give interviews to, as most programs will only interview around 2-3 people from the same school.
The main advantage of pass fail schools in the past was that applicants did not have to worry about maintaining a high GPA or class rank, as long as their board scores were in the 90's. This is no longer the case and having a high class rank is a huge plus for competitive specialties.
GRE is not nearly as important as NBDE Part I used to be for Ortho and Pedo has also become increasingly competitive.
If you are capable of achieving a top 5-10 rank at a school with a GPA, I would recommend going to a ranked school rather than a P/F school if are set on specializing because you will have more interview invites. This does not apply to OMFS because of the CBSE.

 

[The OMFS]

5 OMFS applicants from UCLA didn't match this cycle. Harvard, UCSF, Columbia, and Penn each has at least one applicant that didn't match this year, The bottomline is that it is what you make out of the dental school that you go. You don't have to go to an IVY or UC in order to match to a program.

 

[Bereno]

Honestly, I think UConn is the best dental school in the U.S. I don't even go there.

Probably not the best dental school, but likely one of the best for specializing.

 

[OMSCoordinator]

5 OMFS applicants from UCLA didn't match this cycle. Harvard, UCSF, Columbia, and Penn each has at least one applicant that didn't match this year, The bottomline is that it is what you make out of the dental school that you go. You don't have to go to an IVY or UC in order to match to a program.

This.

 

[playa2652]

I didn't match into Ortho my first time around, but the following year after doing an AEGD, I got into a non-match program. I actually went to UCSF for dental school, and although my feelings for my alma mater are of a love/hate relationship, I have been told by lots of programs that I went to a great dental school. For my friends who didn't get into ortho the first time around, all my friends did get in the following year. Most applicants forget one BIG thing, and that is you have to be humble with what you have. A lot of the people who didn't match, including myself, let our pride get in the way and believed they were hot stuff. It took me about six months to realize that I screwed up my interview(s) and also my choices weren't the right fit for me because maybe I was not the applicant they were looking for. Remember, you and ONLY YOU have the ability to make yourself a strong applicant.

Even though I had Part I scores, my friends the following year did not, but they had a killer application. Heavily involved in extracurriculars, clubs, research etc.

NOTE: The school you attend is just a facade to get you into the front door. Afterwards, its up to you to seal the deal and potentially match, regardless if you come from a P/NP grading system

 

[Calculus2008]

I think there are no hard and fast rules for getting into specialities which are very competitive such as Pedo, ortho or OMS. Pedo is definitely the "new ortho". It does matter to some extent which school you are coming from as some schools (UCLA, UCSF, Harvard, Penn, etc) have a very good reputation for matching applicants to positions, but at the same time, you have to have worked hard, done your homework and have good extracurricular activities, research etc to get into good programs. I think you can still get into good programs if you work very hard at your dental school no matter where you go and apply to the "right" programs and ace your interviews. A lot of people apply to specialties without adequate exposure to their field of interest and not being exposed to it. It is easy to tell from your interview and resume how much interest/experience you have in the field and whether you would be a good fit for a certain program or not.