Need Adivce and Help making a solid plan!

[Jaleman22]

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My Undergrad education has had twists and turns and needs some serious concrete planning if its ever gonna get done. First things first, I wasn't sure I wanted to be a Physician until after my first year in college, so it explains some of my first year issues. Here's what were looking at so far.

-Graduated from High School in 2009 (I graduated with various general college courses taken during the summers, classes such as Psychology, English 101, 102, etc.)
-Attended 2 Semesters at Arizona State University.
-----Fall 2009: -General Biology - B
-Gen Chemistry- W
-College Algebra- W
(and took some generals....Got 2 A's out of them)
-----Spring 2010: -General Biology 2 - C
-Economics- D
-Communications- B
-Sociology- B
(Wasn't sure about what to do with my life...tried out business...didn't like it. Was ready to just drop the idea of going to school in general. I was immature in every way. I left in Dec. 2010 on a two year mission in Bolivia and learned Spanish and a native language called Quechua). Changed my perspective and fueled my desire to buckle down and chase my dream of becoming a physician.
---------Spring 2013: -General Chemistry-W
-Anatomy- A
-Precalculus- W
(Realized at this point I had to step back to ground zero. Changed schools, got accepted into BYU Idaho and made the tough decision of starting all over.)
---------Fall 2013: College Algebra: A
-Humanities- A
-Foundations-A
-Religion- A
-Guitar- A
(While attending BYU Idaho I met my wife. Had an awesome semester confidence wise, but made the decision to go to back to Arizona to be closer to family.)
---------Spring 2014: -General Chemistry- A
-Precalculus- A
- Food and Nutrition- A
- Multiculturalism- A
----------Fall 2014: -General Chemistry 2- A
-Calculus- A
-General Physics- A
(Got accepted to BYU. They have an awesome Pre-Med program/acceptance stats...moved up. Chose Public Health w/ an emphasis in Health Science as my major.
----------Spring 2015: -Organic Chemistry (doing well so far)
-Health promotion
-Environmental Health
-Religion
-Public Health

Unfortunately my Physics class wasn't accepted here at BYU even though it would be accepted at Medical schools. After this semester which ends in April, I plan on going back to AZ to take the second physics course at a community college. Then that just leaves Organic Chemistry for the Fall 2015 when I get back to BYU.
I know its just been a complete mess thus far, credits from various schools and moving around as life has made its opportunities. I also just had my first child, this year which has made my motivation and sense of responsibility even more committed.
What I need help with is ADVICE and help PLANNING! When do I take the MCAT? and how can I plan the next two years to have sufficient time to study for the exam? Another one of my worries is the fact that I haven't taken Psychology nor Sociology for over 4 years. Also, When should I take Biochemistry, and is it possible to take the 2015 MCAT without taking biochem? Is there anyway I could take the MCAT this year? or no way....I appreciate all the help, I truly do!
As far as extracurriculars, I have volunteered at a hospital in the PACU for 6 months. Through that I was able to get a position as a Medical Scribe for Physicians and PA's at the Emergency Department at the same hospital. I worked there for 7 months before going to BYU Idaho. Loved it!!!! I have also served as a Pre-Health Club V.P. officer which was also a great way to serve my fellow pre health students. This semester I'm joining the red cross club and am going out teaching CPR classes to hispanic communities in Utah.
I've also shadowed a D.O. Family medicine doctor(who has become more like family), who has been like my personal mentor and has said various times to call him for a letter of Rec. when I apply to school. I've also shadowed an M.D. who likewise has been awesome and is ready to help with anything when the time comes. I also developed a great relationship with my Chemistry professor who was also my Pre-Health Advisor and he told me to definitely keep in touch (LOR opportunity)

I'm also a first generation college student, my parents are both immigrants from Mexico. Its been a rough, stressful road, I appreciate any and all opinions. I'm 23 for goodness sakes! Being a physcian has been my goal for quite a while now, not giving up on it. I know I can do it, I just feel like my options as guidance up to know hasn't been the best. THANKS IN ADVANCE TO ALL!!

 

[AlteredScale]

My Undergrad education has had twists and turns and needs some serious concrete planning if its ever gonna get done. First things first, I wasn't sure I wanted to be a Physician until after my first year in college, so it explains some of my first year issues. Here's what were looking at so far.

-Graduated from High School in 2009
-Attended 2 Semesters at Arizona State University.
-----Fall 2009: -General Biology - B
-Gen Chemistry- W
-College Algebra- W

I'm confused. That's all you've taken after 2 semesters?

 

[Jaleman22]

sorry, new to posting. Had to edit that!

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Looks good to me, you are still very early on, just keep up the good work. Loads and loads of people have a goofy start with maybe a couple fails or W's (heck you are smart for taking the W's instead of fails haha). You have shown growth via getting W's in your gen chems, and then getting solid grades on them later on. You could honestly just leave economics alone, its all good, no one is going to care about a D in an economics course in your first year. Just stay the course, keep getting good grades and you will be fine. Just keep slowly working your way up to the harder classes. Its also good that you are starting to shadow and stuff, keep those relationships strong, you will need letters of recommendation from physicians later on when you are applying.

As for some of your specific questions:
When do I take the MCAT? and how can I plan the next two years to have sufficient time to study for the exam?

---You should take it ONLY after you have taken at least 90% of the courses required for the exam (organic, biochem, sociology/psych, physics, etc). Having a few upper level bio courses doesnt hurt either - genetics, cell bio, micro, stuff like that. But you dont have to wait to take those. You absolutely will need biochem to take the exam. Even before it switched over to the new format, biochem was extremely helpful. I imagine that even though you took pysch/soc a while back you could probably study for those sections just with proper study material, you dont need to retake the classes or anything.

---Here is the biggest key advice I can give: do not plan to study for more than 10-12 weeks for it. What you need to do is find a very concise plan and stick to it. This is your first lesson for medical school - study smart, dont just study hard. If you go over 3 months you WILL burnout and it will cause you to get a lower score. Take it from me - I studied for 40-50 hours a week for 14 weeks. I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that I would have gotten 2-3 points higher had I taken it at 12 weeks (my practice tests were telling me so). Its seems crazy that only a 2 week difference could mean so much, but when you are going that hard for so long, there is absolutely a point of diminishing returns. So your best plan is to take all of the courses you need to take then either take a semester off or study during the summer and kill it then. So to summarize: you do not need years to plan or study for it. A couple months of hard/concise studying is definitely better than a year of suffering and half@ssing your studying while being preoccupied with other things.

--- A very nice plan is one you will find on here on SDN called SN2ed. It will tell you all of the materials that you need and will give you a schedule for it. There is no need for a prep course if you are solid and can stick to a plan such as that. (I dont know how the plan works for the new MCAT - but the idea being that you go in with a plan and stick to it).

---Plan to take it once and only once. Yes, technically you can take it as many times as you want. But there is something to be said about studying correctly the first time and then never having to think about it again. Not to mention some schools dont take the highest/newest score, some schools average scores, so doing well on it once is definitely better. You will know after a handful of practice tests how you will fare on it.

---Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. Just keep enjoying learning and it will all fall in place. Take the courses that you need to take then take the MCAT only when you are ready. If it feels like you are struggling to do it all then give yourself time. You will get into med school when it is meant to happen. Even if it means you take a gap year or you take the test later than you would have hoped, etc. It all works out in the end. Your job is to just keep your head down, keep working, and roll with whatever needs to happen - adapt.

---Your ECs are fine; again you are on the right path. Nothing wrong with getting more shadowing, more clinical, and then research. Obviously the more packed your application is, the better. It makes you look better, it makes it easier to write about stuff in your secondary application, and it makes interviews smoother since you have more to talk about. Also nothing wrong with finding something fun that you can get invested in. Working at a summer camp is always fun (and you learn a ridiculous amount about leadership). I really enjoy cooking, so I ended up becoming a cook at a homeless shelter. The stuff you can talk about passionately definitely goes over better in your application. Find things that you love and then turn that into a way to help/serve others, even if it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with people directly.


You got this, just stay the course, be patient, and keep loving to learn.

 

[Jaleman22]

Looks good to me, you are still very early on, just keep up the good work. Loads and loads of people have a goofy start with maybe a couple fails or W's (heck you are smart for taking the W's instead of fails haha). You have shown growth via getting W's in your gen chems, and then getting solid grades on them later on. You could honestly just leave economics alone, its all good, no one is going to care about a D in an economics course in your first year. Just stay the course, keep getting good grades and you will be fine. Just keep slowly working your way up to the harder classes. Its also good that you are starting to shadow and stuff, keep those relationships strong, you will need letters of recommendation from physicians later on when you are applying.

As for some of your specific questions:
When do I take the MCAT? and how can I plan the next two years to have sufficient time to study for the exam?

---You should take it ONLY after you have taken at least 90% of the courses required for the exam (organic, biochem, sociology/psych, physics, etc). Having a few upper level bio courses doesnt hurt either - genetics, cell bio, micro, stuff like that. But you dont have to wait to take those. You absolutely will need biochem to take the exam. Even before it switched over to the new format, biochem was extremely helpful. I imagine that even though you took pysch/soc a while back you could probably study for those sections just with proper study material, you dont need to retake the classes or anything.

---Here is the biggest key advice I can give: do not plan to study for more than 10-12 weeks for it. What you need to do is find a very concise plan and stick to it. This is your first lesson for medical school - study smart, dont just study hard. If you go over 3 months you WILL burnout and it will cause you to get a lower score. Take it from me - I studied for 40-50 hours a week for 14 weeks. I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that I would have gotten 2-3 points higher had I taken it at 12 weeks (my practice tests were telling me so). Its seems crazy that only a 2 week difference could mean so much, but when you are going that hard for so long, there is absolutely a point of diminishing returns. So your best plan is to take all of the courses you need to take then either take a semester off or study during the summer and kill it then. So to summarize: you do not need years to plan or study for it. A couple months of hard/concise studying is definitely better than a year of suffering and half@ssing your studying while being preoccupied with other things.

--- A very nice plan is one you will find on here on SDN called SN2ed. It will tell you all of the materials that you need and will give you a schedule for it. There is no need for a prep course if you are solid and can stick to a plan such as that. (I dont know how the plan works for the new MCAT - but the idea being that you go in with a plan and stick to it).

---Plan to take it once and only once. Yes, technically you can take it as many times as you want. But there is something to be said about studying correctly the first time and then never having to think about it again. Not to mention some schools dont take the highest/newest score, some schools average scores, so doing well on it once is definitely better. You will know after a handful of practice tests how you will fare on it.

---Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint. Just keep enjoying learning and it will all fall in place. Take the courses that you need to take then take the MCAT only when you are ready. If it feels like you are struggling to do it all then give yourself time. You will get into med school when it is meant to happen. Even if it means you take a gap year or you take the test later than you would have hoped, etc. It all works out in the end. Your job is to just keep your head down, keep working, and roll with whatever needs to happen - adapt.

---Your ECs are fine; again you are on the right path. Nothing wrong with getting more shadowing, more clinical, and then research. Obviously the more packed your application is, the better. It makes you look better, it makes it easier to write about stuff in your secondary application, and it makes interviews smoother since you have more to talk about. Also nothing wrong with finding something fun that you can get invested in. Working at a summer camp is always fun (and you learn a ridiculous amount about leadership). I really enjoy cooking, so I ended up becoming a cook at a homeless shelter. The stuff you can talk about passionately definitely goes over better in your application. Find things that you love and then turn that into a way to help/serve others, even if it doesnt necessarily have anything to do with people directly.


You got this, just stay the course, be patient, and keep loving to learn.

Awesome Sauceome, Thanks for your advice and guidance, it sincerely means a lot. After considering all you said, I realize I've been stressing out over trying to get everything done, and done quickly. You're absolutely right, things are going just fine. You know, it can get bleak real quick in my classes when I feel like its not going according to "plan", but like you said I just gotta enjoy the ride and find interest in the material. Its not worth freaking out and under performing as a result. I've still got a ways to go, you're advice is definitely something I will refer back to constantly. I realize I still have some maturing to do as a student, maturing that will come as I just adapt to whatever may come.

 

[AlteredScale]

Awesome Sauceome, Thanks for your advice and guidance, it sincerely means a lot. After considering all you said, I realize I've been stressing out over trying to get everything done, and done quickly. You're absolutely right, things are going just fine. You know, it can get bleak real quick in my classes when I feel like its not going according to "plan", but like you said I just gotta enjoy the ride and find interest in the material. Its not worth freaking out and under performing as a result. I've still got a ways to go, you're advice is definitely something I will refer back to constantly. I realize I still have some maturing to do as a student, maturing that will come as I just adapt to whatever may come.

I know the feels. When I was in community college and was landing C's on my midterms in biology it wasn't going to plan. A million things were running through my mind...out of all the classes who would I be doing poorly in biology.

And yes, that is true. There comes a time where sheer effort and perseverance (I'll just give 100% all the time) don't alway work and meticulous self-analysis and improvement (what am I doing wrong, how can I adjust) is necessary. Not where you find that balance to apply those aspects in correct situations is a part of the maturing process. And don't worry, it'll come with time.

I know this may come across as cheesy, but don't lose your own identity. Keep with your own interests even if they don't stem into the medical or research realm. Having the "who am I and what do I stand for" is a very important part to this entire process of applying to medical school and will strengthen your personal statement and activities ten-fold.

Best of luck to you 🙂

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Awesome Sauceome, Thanks for your advice and guidance, it sincerely means a lot. After considering all you said, I realize I've been stressing out over trying to get everything done, and done quickly. You're absolutely right, things are going just fine. You know, it can get bleak real quick in my classes when I feel like its not going according to "plan", but like you said I just gotta enjoy the ride and find interest in the material. Its not worth freaking out and under performing as a result. I've still got a ways to go, you're advice is definitely something I will refer back to constantly. I realize I still have some maturing to do as a student, maturing that will come as I just adapt to whatever may come.

Hey, you are doing good. All of of are a little neurotic. In fact I think a little bit of neuroticism can go a long way. I regret not being more involved in various aspects of my life early on in college. I sort of bumbled through and then freaked out in my last year when I realized I was called to medicine and thus ended up having to take a couple of gaps years. Would I go back and change anything? Nah... but it certainly would have been easier if I had some sort of guide/plan heh. I think there is a balance between having a plan and having a yolo attitude towards it.

But definitely just enjoy learning and school in general. There are definitely times where it is not as much fun, especially when you are trying to balance your extracurriculars and such. But generally speaking, what I hear is that the people who do best in med school simply genuinely have a passion to learn. That passion for knowledge is a good trait to start maturing over time. If you have the passion, it will be reflected in better grades, a better MCAT score, and eventually an acceptance to school. The rest will fall into place when it is meant to, I have full faith in that.

So as for the specifics of your plan; technically speaking what year are you planning on graduating? It looks like maybe you are a junior now? the transfer seemed to throw you off, not to mention the first year of courses.

IF I was you, and I was a junior, here is what I would do:
Load up next fall on basically all of the last courses that you would need for med school (maybe biochem and stuff). Basically finish off the list. If you cant fit it all in, then maybe save one or two courses for the spring. IF you have the credits to graduate next fall then I would basically spend the spring by maybe just taking one or two relatively easy/interesting classes and thats it (or just graduate after the fall semester). Winter break I would not do a single thing - play video games, chill, relax, etc. Then spring hit the MCAT studying hard, basically treat it like a full time job (this is why you will not be taking any/many other courses). Then take it at the end of April. Get your scores back at the end of May. Apply to schools in the first week of June (when the application opens). Get your secondary applications back end of June/early July (so make sure all of your letters are ready and in your hands by early June). Interview in the fall and get accepted. Done. So that gives you this spring and next fall to just keep working on your classes and ECs. Only focus on those guys. Its all about compartmentalization - only focus on what you can currently work on. Then when next fall is done only focus on the MCAT. Then when the spring is done, work on your application, etc etc. Its more manageable that way.

***Dont let a single person tell you that you can apply later, like is not a big deal. Applying in June/early July is probably one of the most helpful things you can do to getting into a school. My pre-med advisor swore up and down that I was fine applying in October and I had to literally fight her for my committee letter - that is total crap. The earlier you apply, the better schools you can get in to, and the more interviews you will have - thats a fact. So whatever your plan entails, you make sure that you are applying early in the season - before August or September if you can (June is ideal). If it doesnt work out, you wait until next season. You are doing yourself a disservice and wasting a bunch of money otherwise. By applying early you basically guarantee an acceptance. By applying late you treat it like its gambling. Getting into med school isnt random, there is a logical step by step process that occurs. Timing is just as important as grades and your MCAT.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

Whew sorry... brevity is not one of my strong suits... I am really trying to work on it.

 

[Jaleman22]

Awesome Sauceome, you're the best. Thanks again.

I wrote out on paper a timeline of everything that needs to be done the next year, and I'm glad I did because it actually goes right along with what you suggested. To your question, yes technically I am a Junior this semester. So here's what I got:

(3 week break after this semester-REST!!)
Summer 2015: -Physics 2
-Maybe take Microbiology
(Month break before Fall-REST!!)
Fall 2015: -Organic Chem 2
-Genetics
(Then three other courses for my Major which is Public Health)
Spring 2016: -Biochemistry
(one or two other EASY classes for my major) Semester Ends on April 24th here at BYU.
At this point I will have all my pre-reqs necessary for the MCAT done. Then I'll have about two more semesters of classes just for my major until I graduate.
BYU has an MCAT prep course (Check it out: http://ce.byu.edu/cw/testprep/) That begins approx. Jan. 20th-March 31st. Its $750 which is a great price compared to other programs. Whats your take on that? My only thing is I haven't taken a bio course in a while so I would need someone to keep me accountable in that area.
-Then take the MCAT in April, get my results by May, Apply in June as soon as applications open.

 

[Awesome Sauceome]

So technically you have 2.5 years left of school then? You have this spring, then all of next year (by next spring you will be complete with pre-reqs for MCAT) and then 1 more year of courses for your major? Am I reading that right? So you will be taking a super senior year then?

Well then I guess you could probably study for the MCAT spring of 2016 and take it that April or May. IF, and only if you know that those other 1 or 2 classes are super easy. I took the MCAT the same semester I was taking physics II and it worked out ok, especially because I had the MCAT scheduled essentially at the end of the semester (last week of April), so I had most of the material down anyways.

Well so I personally dont know much about that particular prep course, you are best to start a thread (maybe on the pre-allo section) and specifically ask if its any good. That is a good price for a prep course. But you will need to find out what materials you get with it, what is the structure of the class, who teaches it, what types of practice tests you get, how people usually fare after taking it. Try and get a feel for those things. If its a thumbs up then go for it, if people give a thumbs down find your own plan and study on your own. My general feel is that I personally did not need a prep course and it was a waste of money. But it depends on your learning style - generally speaking courses are very nice because they provide structure, but all of the practice and knowledge gathering is on you, no one can teach you how to do well on the MCAT. Its just brute force practice and consistency.

Well thankfully I would argue that bio is the easiest section to study/review without having a bunch of classes. Most of the questions are not straight knowledge based, most are analyzing pieces of data and then making inferences - so more logic than memorization. If you have some basic anatomy knowledge and you can memorize hormones (where they come from, where they go, what they do) then you are pretty good to go so long as you can problem solve.

***Side note, another critical piece of info I can give that I am thinking about now. Your #1 resource for killing the MCAT is practice problems. Its not like a test for one of your college courses, where you have to know facts. The MCAT is problem solving. You can learn how to solve problems about topics you have never even heard of simply by practicing. So when you do eventually start all this business, dont worry about covering a whole bunch of material and reading books front to cover (like a lot of prep courses like to have you do). Just do countless practice problems and practice exams - you will gain all the knowledge you need to from getting problems wrong (and then checking why you got them wrong), and not to mention you will get your speed up which is one of the big reasons why people do poorly (they cant answer all of the questions). So yup, just thought I would throw that in there since I was thinking of it: practice problems > knowledge.

 

[Jaleman22]

So technically you have 2.5 years left of school then? You have this spring, then all of next year (by next spring you will be complete with pre-reqs for MCAT) and then 1 more year of courses for your major? Am I reading that right? So you will be taking a super senior year then?

Well then I guess you could probably study for the MCAT spring of 2016 and take it that April or May. IF, and only if you know that those other 1 or 2 classes are super easy. I took the MCAT the same semester I was taking physics II and it worked out ok, especially because I had the MCAT scheduled essentially at the end of the semester (last week of April), so I had most of the material down anyways.

Well so I personally dont know much about that particular prep course, you are best to start a thread (maybe on the pre-allo section) and specifically ask if its any good. That is a good price for a prep course. But you will need to find out what materials you get with it, what is the structure of the class, who teaches it, what types of practice tests you get, how people usually fare after taking it. Try and get a feel for those things. If its a thumbs up then go for it, if people give a thumbs down find your own plan and study on your own. My general feel is that I personally did not need a prep course and it was a waste of money. But it depends on your learning style - generally speaking courses are very nice because they provide structure, but all of the practice and knowledge gathering is on you, no one can teach you how to do well on the MCAT. Its just brute force practice and consistency.

Well thankfully I would argue that bio is the easiest section to study/review without having a bunch of classes. Most of the questions are not straight knowledge based, most are analyzing pieces of data and then making inferences - so more logic than memorization. If you have some basic anatomy knowledge and you can memorize hormones (where they come from, where they go, what they do) then you are pretty good to go so long as you can problem solve.

***Side note, another critical piece of info I can give that I am thinking about now. Your #1 resource for killing the MCAT is practice problems. Its not like a test for one of your college courses, where you have to know facts. The MCAT is problem solving. You can learn how to solve problems about topics you have never even heard of simply by practicing. So when you do eventually start all this business, dont worry about covering a whole bunch of material and reading books front to cover (like a lot of prep courses like to have you do). Just do countless practice problems and practice exams - you will gain all the knowledge you need to from getting problems wrong (and then checking why you got them wrong), and not to mention you will get your speed up which is one of the big reasons why people do poorly (they cant answer all of the questions). So yup, just thought I would throw that in there since I was thinking of it: practice problems > knowledge.

Sorry, I explained it poorly. I would be graduating Fall 2016.
Thanks for the study tips as far as the MCAT goes, they sound like life savers. Feeling A LOT more confident now that I have an idea of what to expect/plan for the next two years. I'm gonna take our plan to my Pre-Health advisor who I will be meeting for the first time this week and just for kicks and giggles see what he says and I'll post soon after. Thanks again AwesomeSause, you're a life saver.

 

[High_protein_diet]

Whew sorry... brevity is not one of my strong suits... I am really trying to work on it.

All the same, that's some excellent advice.