Need advice..applying MD..report usmle scores?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Jg7, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. Jg7

    Jg7

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you:)
     
    #1 Jg7, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. dozitgetchahi

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    604
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Someone correct me if I'm wrong...but I don't believe you have a choice with this anymore. I think ERAS makes everyone who took the USMLE submit scores.
     
  4. Jg7

    Jg7

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, you don't have to report them. There is no way for programs to see if you have taken them or not. There obviously is a moral question here...but that is not really what I am trying to discuss:)
     
  5. dozitgetchahi

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2008
    Messages:
    1,583
    Likes Received:
    604
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Yeah, but even if you don't have to report won't they see that you took it? Doesn't that mean you'll get asked about it?
     
  6. ShyRem

    ShyRem I need more coffee.
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    125
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    If you are a DO and apply to ACGME residencies and have taken the USMLE, you are REQUIRED to report your USMLE score. It is no longer an option.

    To have taken the USMLE and not report your score is a match violation and could have you banned from any match. Ever. I wouldn't risk it if I were you.
     
  7. Jg7

    Jg7

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks for the replies! I have been toldby many people..residents, school officials etc there is no way program directors would find out. Eras lets you apply without sending usmle id...only comlex. I am not asking if this is the right/moral thing to do, just a question about the scores specifically
     
  8. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    "Note to osteopathic applicants only: Before you certify your ERAS application, consider whether you will apply to ACGME and/or AOA-accredited programs. If you apply to ACGME accredited programs, and you have taken the USMLE, you must report that on your application. If you only apply to AOA accredited programs, you do not have to report the USMLE on your application."


    I wouldn't risk not reporting your score. One program finds out somehow and you would likely be banned from the match. Not a smart move.
     
  9. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]

    Also, the fact that you have been talking to all these people about it means that any one of them could mention it and you would be screwed. Not worth the risk imo.
     
  10. Jg7

    Jg7

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh well, tried to get some specific advice but I guess its difficult to explain the situation accurately on a forum. I appreciate the responses! I don't think docs/advisors at my school would call up programs and tell on me. There have been many successfully matched applicants who have not told programs they have failed usmle, got a low score etc.
    Thanks!
     
  11. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    How is it difficult to explain the situation? You did poorly on the USMLE and are trying to hide it. Not that difficult to understand. Just know that if this backfires it backfires BIG! So, don't come back here whinning that you were banned from the match if someone finds out, as people here are not going to feel sorry for you.
     
  12. desijigga

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    21
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Best to report your USMLE scores if you have taken it. I do know of some people who have gotten away with not reporting, but its still a risk.

    Regardless your usmle score is fine for Peds, especially your step 2. What programs want to see is improvement which you clearly have shown. As long as you have good letters, strong clinical grades, you should match at a good program.

    One thing is absolutely known Allo PDs value usmle>comlex, so you are risking missing out on interviews at some very good programs by not reporting your usmle.
     
  13. Jg7

    Jg7

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    thank you desi for your advice, which was what I was looking for.

    sylvanthus - Why wouldn't I try to hide it if it meant it was going to hurt my chances for an interview? I'm merely asking for advice, not asking for someone to state the obvious about the score... and if I did get banned from the match I don't think I would come back to this forum and whine and ask for sympathy! hehehe that is just ridiculous. Life is too short to be so mean and rude. You have no idea who I am or the circumstances around why I "did so poorly" on step 1.

    anyways, thanks again for the advice everyone!
     
  14. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Lets see, you are trying to go against the match rules by lying, hiding your poor score (regardless of the circumstances), and you are upset that you are being called out for it?

    Yaaaaaaa, done with this thread.
     
  15. the alchemist

    the alchemist Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    i think that u do have to report it and that rule came into being in the last couple of yrs (while i was in med school) - i think b4 that, do students could choose not to report usmle scores but now have no choice as everyone is saying. i'm not entirely sure but i do think that the programs can see that u took usmle even if u don't release the score and that'll just look like u're hiding sth and worse, get u banned from match, if u don't release. better to explain than to look like u're trying to pull a fast one. and the rest of your app would have to be stellar if md programs are going to go based on just grades/comlex (which they don't seem to like to do, they def prefer usmle > comlex).

    many md programs might not require usmle (some do) but u might miss out on interviews anyway b/c they 1) either won't know u took it but i don't think this is true anymore as i stated or 2) won't have your score (and some programs won't rank you even if they interview u w/o the score).
     
  16. ooitsamonkey

    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Match 2011 was the last one where usmle scores were optional. For all of us who are applying this upcoming cycle, there is no choice of not reporting it. Failed, passed, or even killed the usmles makes no difference. Your score will be reported if you have taken that exam. W/e the circumstances are, we are now in the same boat as allopaths. If you take usmle step 2 after september 1st or if your score is reported after that date, I believe you have the option of not releasing that score to residency programs prior to interviews, but you have to at some point let the hospitals know of your score. From what I understand some hospitals may not even interview osteopaths w.o a usmle step 2 score.
     
  17. the alchemist

    the alchemist Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    yeah, i released both my comlex and usmle (had to take all 6 b/c some md programs i'm applying to do not accept comlex and even said i have to take 2-cs, ugh). was just letting the OP know as u and most everyone has, that s/he can't "hide" their usmle score anymore. like u said, we don't have that choice this cycle.

    my usmles r after sept 1st and in that case, there's the option to have scores automatically sent to eras (even b4 i get them) or sent to me first and i have to "release" after each one. either way, my usmle # is in there (so they'll know i'm taking them) and all the info as to dates as well. a lot of programs in my specialty send invites after 9/1 so not everyone has step 2 scores in and still get interviews.
     
  18. ShyRem

    ShyRem I need more coffee.
    Physician Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2004
    Messages:
    9,798
    Likes Received:
    125
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Actually, when I went through the match in 2010 USMLE score reporting for ACGME residencies was mandatory. To not report a USMLE score if you have taken the exam and you are applying for ACGME residencies was a match violation even then.
     
  19. fiznat

    fiznat Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    56
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]

    Hate it when people do this. Why did you delete your original question? Just because you got your question answered doesn't mean that this thread can't serve as a reference for others. I realize it is possible to deduce what you asked by reading the replies, but come on.... bad form.
     
  20. aliDO

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    what about not reporting comlex for allopathic match? I posted a forum about it but nobody really knows. Obviously they will know I took it but do they even care if I have a USMLE score?
     
  21. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    10
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Don't we have to since COMLEX is required for licensing purposes? Or can we just get away with reporting "pass"?

    So in summary, if you are applying to allopathic match, you HAVE to report USMLE Step 1 and Step 2 if taken before September 1. And Step 2 taken after September 1 will need to be eventually reported so for all practical purposes, both Step 1 and Step 2 need to be reported.
     
  22. aliDO

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    I've read people not reporting it. I don't think it would be a violation because obviously they know we have taken and passed it. I just didn't do as well on it and with a good usmle score and applying to allopathic schools I don't really see the point in mentioning it and paying the extra money for a score they don't really understand anyway.
     
  23. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    10
    Status:
    Medical Student
    How do they know we passed it? Are we allowed to participate in the allopathic match only if we've passed COMLEX Step 1? What about Step 2...how do they know we passed that?
     
  24. aliDO

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Pre-Medical
    It would be pretty hard to be applying to residency without at least passing comlex one. I'm pretty sure your school would pull you out by that point. Colex 2 is another story but most don't care as long as you do pass which you would have to to start residency.
     
  25. buggle

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Non-Student
    I have always been told even for this year that USMLE submission for DO (even for ACGME match) is optional. Can someone POST a link to the ERAS site that actually says you are REQUIRED to post it? I asked my interviewers if I am required to give them the scores, and they said no since I took the Comlex and they have those scores. So, where on earth are people getting the information that it is required? I cannot find anything on ERAS. Maybe I am not looking in the right place..... I am just going to call them tomorrow when they are open and post the response here.
     
  26. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
  27. buggle

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Non-Student
    OK, this is what I see on the page.
    " If you apply to ACGME accredited programs, and you have taken the USMLE, you must report that on your application. If you only apply to AOA accredited programs, you do not have to report the USMLE on your application."

    Does this mean to give out the transcript, or to report that you took it in your application? In the application, you can report that you have taken the USMLE. But, it does not say specifically about reporting the actual scores.
     
    #26 buggle, Jan 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  28. buggle

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Non-Student
    Hey Guys!

    I just spoke to ERAS. They said they have NO requirement that a DO student/graduate has to release their USMLE transcripts to the allopathic programs. The statement was to say (in your application) that you took it. But, it is up to the PROGRAMS if they require you to submit the USMLE transcript to them. If they do require and ask you to, then you HAVE TO release the scores to them. But, ERAS says they have no set requirements.
    If you need to, you can call them directly to confirm this.

    NRMP also say they do not require a DO to release the USMLE transcript scores.

    So, again, it is completely up to the residency programs if they require the scores.
     
    #27 buggle, Jan 3, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2012
  29. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Aye that may be true, but if I was a PD and saw you took the USMLE, I would want to know how you did. Likely, many PDs would think like that.
    But, who knows.
     
  30. sylvanthus

    sylvanthus EM/IM/CC PGY-6
    Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    Messages:
    2,871
    Likes Received:
    594
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Also, it'd be pretty obvious a person did poorly, if they report that they took the USMLE, but don't include the score.
     
  31. thepoopologist

    thepoopologist Ph.D in Clinical Meconium
    Classifieds Approved 7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    3,557
    Likes Received:
    698
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I spoke to a 4th year on rotation with me after reading this thread and he said he didn't report it, and the closest he'd come to being asked about it was along the lines of "have you ever considered taking the USMLE?" He said he had considered it, and left it at that.

    If this is really the case with NRMP/ERAS then I think I'll take my chances with not reporting it if things go south with my score.
     
  32. Rollo

    Rollo Renowned Wolf
    2+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,411
    Likes Received:
    10
    Status:
    Medical Student
    Very helpful! Thank you for confirming this straight out of the horse's mouth.
     
  33. ensuii

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    If applying to both DO and MD programs with having taken both COMLEX and USMLE, does anyone know if you can prevent DO programs from seeing your USMLE score or knowing that you took it?
     
  34. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one...
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    DO programs aren't going to care about your USMLE score whether you report it or not. The USMLE is not a requirement for DO programs. Small sample size, but the few DO PDs I talked to tend to worry about students who take USMLE. They wonder if they are applying DO as a backup. I am by no means saying all DO PDs are like that, but it's food for thought.
     
  35. ensuii

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    That's kindof been my interpretation of the climate. I think I did pretty well on both (240+, 600+) but the USMLE score for DO programs could really only work against me and likely isn't going to do anything in my favor so I would really prefer to not divulge the information if I don't have to :p
     
  36. LSU Alex

    LSU Alex The only good lawyer is a sick one...
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I don't know what specialty you are aiming for, but your USMLE stats are good enough for ACGME primary care, EM, Gas, and maybe rads. If you are looking for any of those specialties, you don't really need to apply DO... well maybe for rads...
     
  37. ensuii

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I'm aiming for EM *fingers crossed*...I know there are a lot of good ACGME programs but there are a couple DO programs I wouldn't mind being at too.
     
  38. jumpmanv15

    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    37
    Status:
    Fellow [Any Field]
    Is EM that competitive? I thought those scores were necessary to get looked at for things like Derm, Ophtho etc meaning EM should be doable... im only a second year so i dont know that much though
     
  39. DrMediterranean

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    4
    Status:
    Medical Student
    I thought the same thing. Possibly the DOs are held to higher standards on USMLE for the ACGME specialties you mentioned? Surely, I would think any US MD student with a 240+ would have a decent chance for Derm or Optho..... lets see what the gunners on SDN say :D
     
  40. ensuii

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    12
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I think in terms of averages, figures and statistics, my application would be relatively competitive as long as I get generally favorable LORs...its just that when it comes to residency spots, its a seller's market and you can't take anything for certain. I think my numbers say I should feel comfortable for matching SOMEWHERE. But I have specific locations and types of programs in mind where I most likely won't be among the applicants with the highest board scores, clerkship grades, number of publications, etc..
     
  41. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus
    5+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    8,223
    Likes Received:
    80
    Status:
    Medical Student
    You would not graduate your DO school. A medical degree is still a requirement.
     
  42. LeftoverFx26

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    What if you don't enter your USMLE ID #?
     
  43. LeftoverFx26

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Medical Student
    So, question. You will not enter your USMLE ID number in then right?
     

Share This Page