Need Advice From Program Director

[SKP0223]

Hi - I am a US born FMG from a carribbean medical school. I have taken my Usmle step 1&2 multiple times and currently am stuck on usmle step 2. I applied to one program, the one I work for. I work for the PD in another department who got me the interview for the IM program. She is aware of my background but was impressed by work ethic and ability to take initiative so she hired me in order to help get my foot in the door. My problem is I have not passed step 2 and failed again this Jan and will not be eligible for match, how to I approach the IM PD that granted me the interview?? I want be up front and already had the interview and it went well. They were waiting for my step 2 results. I know it's all about the numbers but how do I approach the PD so I can have a shot next year?? FYI I have improved my application with clinical and research publications but let's be honest how many publications can you have to make up for usmle a deficits. Any advice I would appreciate. Thanks

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[W19]

@aProgDirector

 

[673441]

Hi - I am a US born FMG from a carribbean medical school. I have taken my Usmle step 1&2 multiple times and currently am stuck on usmle step 2. I applied to one program, the one I work for. I work for the PD in another department who got me the interview for the IM program. She is aware of my background but was impressed by work ethic and ability to take initiative so she hired me in order to help get my foot in the door. My problem is I have not passed step 2 and failed again this Jan and will not be eligible for match, how to I approach the IM PD that granted me the interview?? I want be up front and already had the interview and it went well. They were waiting for my step 2 results. I know it's all about the numbers but how do I approach the PD so I can have a shot next year?? FYI I have improved my application with clinical and research publications but let's be honest how many publications can you have to make up for usmle a deficits. Any advice I would appreciate. Thanks

So when you say "stuck," are you planning to sit for it soon? Or are you just not able to pass it at all? Either way, I would be sending that PD a fruit basket 1x/week until I match. I have no idea what your situation is on why you haven't taken STEP2 yet, so I wouldn't know what to recommend. A failure on any of the STEP exam is like a [expletive]-stain on your khaki pants, every PD will see it from a mile away and avoid you.

 

[gyngyn]

It is likely that your school will not certify you for the Match.
Tell the PD that you will not have a passing score by the time that they certify their rank order list.
Thank them for the courtesy of interviewing you.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As an FMG, the match isn't an option until you pass Step 2 and get ECFMG certified / approved. At this point, you can't take the exam again fast enough to do so, so you're out of the match this year. You will be automatically withdrawn, even if the PD were to consider ranking you it isn't an option. I think you know that, but just making it clear for others.

You're in a tough spot. You mentioned failing USMLE step 1 and 2 multiple times. That, and each year that passes from your graduation, the less chances of getting a spot. You're also going to possibly run up against USMLE limits -- you can only take any individual step a maximum of 6 times, and some states have other limits either on individual steps, or on the series as a whole. (This link has a summary: https://www.fsmb.org/licensure/usmle-step-3/state_specific Technically that's a list of Step 3 requirements, but it points out which states also have USMLE limits).

As to what to do for this PD, you tell the truth. If your score has an upward trend, then perhaps the next time will be the charm. You thank them for supporting you. You can certainly ask if they will consider you in a future year when you pass.

In the long term, you may need a plan B. Even if you pass at this point, it's unclear if anyone will take you. Then, you'll have STep 3 to deal with, and most programs have a time limit to get that done else you'll be let go. And then there will be Board Certification. Each exam has a failure rate, and those that don't pass the prior exams never make it to the next (suggesting that each gets more difficult).

 

[Goro]

Yet another data point on why going to the Caribbean is a bad idea.

 

[SKP0223]

As an FMG, the match isn't an option until you pass Step 2 and get ECFMG certified / approved. At this point, you can't take the exam again fast enough to do so, so you're out of the match this year. You will be automatically withdrawn, even if the PD were to consider ranking you it isn't an option. I think you know that, but just making it clear for others.

You're in a tough spot. You mentioned failing USMLE step 1 and 2 multiple times. That, and each year that passes from your graduation, the less chances of getting a spot. You're also going to possibly run up against USMLE limits -- you can only take any individual step a maximum of 6 times, and some states have other limits either on individual steps, or on the series as a whole. (This link has a summary: https://www.fsmb.org/licensure/usmle-step-3/state_specific Technically that's a list of Step 3 requirements, but it points out which states also have USMLE limits).

As to what to do for this PD, you tell the truth. If your score has an upward trend, then perhaps the next time will be the charm. You thank them for supporting you. You can certainly ask if they will consider you in a future year when you pass.

In the long term, you may need a plan B. Even if you pass at this point, it's unclear if anyone will take you. Then, you'll have STep 3 to deal with, and most programs have a time limit to get that done else you'll be let go. And then there will be Board Certification. Each exam has a failure rate, and those that don't pass the prior exams never make it to the next (suggesting that each gets more difficult).

Thanks for advice aProgDirector, I appreciate it. I know I'm in a touch spot and at this point I would just complete these exams. If I can get residency then that would be wonderful but I can also accept it - if I don't. I just feel like this IM program director at least gave me a chance by interviewing me so I owe it to her to be honest and upfront. During my interview in Jan I ask them what are my chances and she said you have a shot if you pass but if you don't then maybe there's next year. I hate analyze what that actually means but since my husband is a practicing physician in the town and I will be staying put so I figure to try my best to get into the program.
Out of curiosity - would an MBA or M.S or MPH strengthen my application due to my failed USMLE attempts? I have multiple publications so I doubt any more would help, correct?

 

[SKP0223]

It is likely that your school will not certify you for the Match.
Tell the PD that you will not have a passing score by the time that they certify their rank order list.
Thank them for the courtesy of interviewing you.

True, I will definitely not be certified by Match so I am already disqualified, thanks

 

[SKP0223]

So when you say "stuck," are you planning to sit for it soon? Or are you just not able to pass it at all? Either way, I would be sending that PD a fruit basket 1x/week until I match. I have no idea what your situation is on why you haven't taken STEP2 yet, so I wouldn't know what to recommend. A failure on any of the STEP exam is like a [expletive]-stain on your khaki pants, every PD will see it from a mile away and avoid you.

I am planning to for USMLE Step2 again but not in time for match - I am stuck in the fact I didn't want a repeat of USMLE step 1 but here I am with multiple attempts on Step 2CK...I know its not a knowledge problem because I have had many tutors who have assured me along with doing well on qbanks. The only thing I can think of is that I overanalyze the questions on the real exam or that I second guess myself so much that I end up failing. I know a failure doesn't look good but at this point - I want to know how to approach the PD that gave the interview so that they will consider me again.

 

[Psai]

Yet another data point on why you're an insufferable prick.

Sorry about your life choices bro

 

[the argus]

Sorry about your life choices bro

This is a thread where someone with a genuine problem was asking for help. He has nothing of substance to actually offer, but sees an opportunity to make a snarky comment. Pathetic.

You mean the life choices where I get to make lots of money doing exactly what I want where I want to do it? Yea, woe is me...

 

[Psai]

This is a thread where someone with a genuine problem was asking for help. He has nothing of substance to actually offer, but sees an opportunity to make a snarky comment. Pathetic.

You mean the life choices where I get to make lots of money doing exactly what I want where I want to do it? Yea, woe is me...

Yeah but money can't buy class. Or help with an inferiority complex.

 

[Gastrapathy]

OP, it all comes down to the relationship between the PDs and how much they like you (at least it will if you pass). Your shot at any other program approaches zero.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Please remain civil and professional in your responses. Calling each other out or insults are not to be tolerated.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

IMHO another example of the moderating double standards on this site that the poster who started the unnecessary bashing goes untouched, while the poster who called him out on it ends up on probation.

 

[Psai]

IMHO another example of the moderating double standards on this site that the poster who started the unnecessary bashing goes untouched, while the poster who called him out on it ends up on probation.

So the guy who called someone an insufferable prick is innocent. That sure isnt unnecessary bashing.

 

[the argus]

IMHO another example of the moderating double standards on this site that the poster who started the unnecessary bashing goes untouched, while the poster who called him out on it ends up on probation.

Yup, same thing happened to me. I called someone a "name" and was put on probation for TOS. The person I called said name to did the SAME exact thing a day later and wasn't put on probation: good stuff.

Fun fact. There's also apparently a statue of limitations on how old of a post you can report, and also how many posts you can report.

I might have also pointed out this double standard by going back and reporting (first time I've ever used that option by the way, some of us don't have to go run and tell mommy) some of a poster's unnecessary bashing/harassment going back over a year.

Turns out you can get more months of probation for overuse of the report feature, and also for reporting posts that are over a certain age.

 

[Psai]

Fun fact. There's also apparently a statue of limitations on how old of a post you can report, and also how many posts you can report.

I might have also pointed out this double standard by going back and reporting (first time I've ever used that option by the way, some of us don't have to go run and tell mommy) some of a poster's unnecessary bashing/harassment going back over a year.

Turns out you can get more months of probation for overuse of the report feature, and also for reporting posts that are over a certain age.

Rofl
I'm not the one who reported you

 

[Winged Scapula]

Both individuals involved had administrative action taken against them.

Of all people, @SouthernSurgeon knows that users don't get put on probation for a single isolated incident. Nor do users get put on probation for abusing the report post function.

I'm not going to comment before but suffice it to say that what has been posted above by some users is not only inaccurate but approaches delusion.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Please remain on topic for the benefit of the OP