Need advice from successful applicants

[staphaureus]

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Hi,

I am very interested in radonc and hoping to get some advice from some successful people that matches.

I'm currently a 3rd year, did a lot of research in undergrad (no paper, just some 2nd and 3rd authorship), some research in med school (again, not publication). Step 1 board score 241, few honors here and there in the class. Like to work hard during 3rd year, but hate ass kissing and trying outcompete other students, so chances are... I expect only a few honors here and there for 3rd yr.

I was wondering if I'm currently on the right track to radonc. I'm not looking to go to the best program, but not the worst either.. just average or decent. The calibers on SDN is impressive, but I don't know how representative of the "average" applicant it is.

Any recommendations/suggestions is greatly appreciated. The only way I can get some meaningful research in is to take a year off, but I really don't want to do this. Is it likely to get into radonc without research paper. Thanks for allyour help

 

[Gfunk6]

The only way I can get some meaningful research in is to take a year off, but I really don't want to do this.

Caveat: I know very little about you or your situation except the bit of info you posted.

However this statement shows that you may not have the best attitude about your situation. Obviously the VAST majority of successful med school applicants (who are MD only) did not have to take a year off to do research. Which means, of course, that you can do research in four years of med school.

Get a RadOnc mentor and try to work on a quick clinical (chart review) project.

Also I am puzzled by this statment,

Like to work hard during 3rd year, but hate ass kissing and trying outcompete other students, so chances are... I expect only a few honors here and there for 3rd yr.

This is also not a helpful attitude to have, though (caveat) I don't know your specific situation. When you do your RadOnc rotations you will (rightly or wrongly) be compared to other students.

This means you will have to read up on your patients, work hard at giving good pt presentations and (importantly) do a well-executed end of rotation presentation. Nobody is asking you to bring the faculty/residents coffee or give them foot massages but realize that if you help them they will help you. Perhaps photocopying something every now and then or volunteering to help a resident who has a particularly brutal day in clinic would not be out of order.

Work ethic is obviously important but you have to be socially aware and politically adroit to maximize your benefit. Not saying that you are lacking in any of these areas but thought I would give you my two cents and emphasize the need for a positive attitude in this whole process. Thanks for reading.

 

[staphaureus]

Caveat: I know very little about you or your situation except the bit of info you posted.

However this statement shows that you may not have the best attitude about your situation. Obviously the VAST minority of successful med school applicants (who are MD only) did not have to take a year off to do research. Which means, of course, that you can do research in four years of med school.

Get a RadOnc mentor and try to work on a quick clinical (chart review) project.

Also I am puzzled by this statment,


This is also not a helpful attitude to have, though (caveat) I don't know your specific situation. When you do your RadOnc rotations you will (rightly or wrongly) be compared to other students.

This means you will have to read up on your patients, work hard at giving good pt presentations and (importantly) do a well-executed end of rotation presentation. Nobody is asking you to bring the faculty/residents coffee or give them foot massages but realize that if you help them they will help you. Perhaps photocopying something every now and then or volunteering to help a resident who has a particularly brutal day in clinic would not be out of order.

Work ethic is obviously important but you have to be socially aware and politically adroit to maximize your benefit. Not saying that you are lacking in any of these areas but thought I would give you my two cents and emphasize the need for a positive attitude in this whole process. Thanks for reading.

Thanks for your quick reply. Regarding the first question: I really do enjoy research, and I guess personally, I've had enough experience to know that I can not produce a meaningful project and still attend to the medical school at the same time. I've thought about taking a year off to do research (which is fully funded), but feel this is too much time off. It's true that one can pick up some clinical/review project, but I don't enjoy it. I like sitting at a bench, building something, breaking something (though not always realistic). If it sounds like a publication is necessary, I might actually will take a year off.

Regarding the second point. It's not that I'm not willing to work hard, come in early, stay late, or help out when needed. I just realize how cut throat the ward can be when there's another student in my service. I don't know if this is just my luck that I happen to meet some pretty competitive students. Additionally, I feel like a student's performance on the ward is totally subjective - depends on the team you're on, the attending your with, resident you're with, how much you have in common with that resident, how often you comment on how good the resident's hair look.. I really not willing go to that length for an honor grade. Again, I'm totally willing to work hard, come early, stay late, and help out when needed -but I honestly don't think this is enough for most cases... which is fine with me. Just want to know if I need to honor every rotation to be competitive (b/c it sounds like it from this forum)

This kind of derailed from my original question, but hope it clearifies a few thing.

 

[Gfunk6]

Thanks for the additional info. You don't need to honor every rotation to be competitive but every good grade helps.

If you don't have ANY RadOnc related research (e.g. never even attempted to do a project) it will hurt you IMO. Research appears to be the great equalizer in the application process.

Otherwise do a home rotation and perhaps an away or two and try to impress, get good LORs and apply broadly. Your Step I is good so that should open a few doors for you and help you get past initial screens.

 

[Thaiger75]

What programs are most interested in terms of having rad onc research (and it doesn't necessarily have to be rad onc related) is that you are committed to become a radiation oncologist and that you have the aptitude and interest to do it. You don't have to have a publication in hand, but at least be involved in a research project and have something substantial done by the time you interview. It's perfectly fine to say that you have in the midst of writing up an abstract or paper and be able to talk intelligently about it. Of course if you have something already accepted to a conference as a poster or presentation or better yet, accepted for publication...then that's definitely an added bonus.

 

[Pewl]

I kinda second the OP's sentiment in that I'm unwilling to take another year off to do research. I'd already spent 2 years to do an M.S. in Medical physics and managed to get some papers off between 1st and 2nd year of medschool. Nonetheless, with a competitive field like rad onc, would it be highly helpful to be the first author on a real basic science research paper? I mean, it's so hard to be the PI of your own major novel project!

 

[CaptainXRT]

I kinda second the OP's sentiment in that I'm unwilling to take another year off to do research. I'd already spent 2 years to do an M.S. in Medical physics and managed to get some papers off between 1st and 2nd year of medschool. Nonetheless, with a competitive field like rad onc, would it be highly helpful to be the first author on a real basic science research paper? I mean, it's so hard to be the PI of your own major novel project!

You have an MS in medical physics (with several publications) and you're worried about matching??? Baby, you are in goooood shape. Just get the aforementioned radonc 'chart review' project under your belt to demonstrate interest from the clinical perspective, and get a couple aways. You'll be just fine.

 

[napoleondynamite]

Perhaps I can chime in here. I considered taking a year off to participate in the Fogarty-Ellison NIH International research program and also looked into the CRTP program offered by the NIH to students who have completed their third year of medical school. No doubt these would have been amazing experiences, but my real reason for doing it really would have been just to beef up my CV, which was (I felt) very deficient in the research section.

I guess my advice is, if that's the MAIN reason you would consider taking a year off for, don't do it. You could be throwing a year of your valuable radonc life away. I will be 36 when I'm done with radonc residency..with the benefit of hindsight (knowing that I matched) there's not a snowball's chance I would trade one entire year of my radonc life for a year of research..but that's just me. And I'm not saying this for the financial reasons (though that's something to also consider..you may be making a four hundred thousand dollar mistake!) I'm saying it because if I really want to spend a chunk of my life doing research, I'd rather wait and really contribute to the field I want do dedicate my entire life to. What happens if you do that year of research in radonc and then you don't get in? Are you still glad you did it? If the answer is no, I'd say work your a$$ off fourth year, apply broadly, make connections and throw your hat in the ring! If you don't get in, do a prelim year and try again...and again..then take a year and do research if you have to.

But if you just LOOOOOOOOOOVE research (some do 😍) then perhaps you'll be happy either way. For me, I am SO GLAD I did not do it...but hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Pewl]

You have an MS in medical physics (with several publications) and you're worried about matching??? Baby, you are in goooood shape. Just get the aforementioned radonc 'chart review' project under your belt to demonstrate interest from the clinical perspective, and get a couple aways. You'll be just fine.

heh well the publications I say I have are actually "pending." Just some red tape and bureaucracy to get through, but should be out before I graduate. One of the projects was actual basic science with bench work and stuff. The other was just me organizing data on a spreadsheet, ha ha. I still have to take step 1 next year. Do you really need to hit 240 to get into a competitive program?

 

[Gfunk6]

Do you really need to hit 240 to get into a competitive program?

No. But you do need other compelling traits in your application to make up for an "average" Step I score.

 

[Pewl]

No. But you do need other compelling traits in your application to make up for an "average" Step I score.

Did you do a bunch of away rotations? I figure those are highly important in general, especially if you rotate through places that you've very interested in going to.

 

[blueMD]

just my 2 cents, outside rotations can be be good or bad. and if ur considering rotating at more reputable rotations keep in mind that you'll likely find competition from other visiting students as well. dont get me wrong.. if u are very interested in a program i think u should go but you need to be on ur A-game every day. also when u do ur rotations is important, i recommend around the time of june, july, august and even later if ur school allows it. i dont think ur key rotations should be done during interview season though which most typically start early december. good luck!

 

[staphaureus]

thanks for all the great replies... it's sad, but the more I read this forum, the less hope I have for going to Rad Onc. Is this a special group of people that's outside of the norm? 1 PhD = 6 first author publications? ... this post makes me want to raise my white flag before I'm even close. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3480600&postcount=55

 

[Gfunk6]

thanks for all the great replies... it's sad, but the more I read this forum, the less hope I have for going to Rad Onc.

Then stop reading this forum and apply already!

This is an anonymous internet forum. As such you will see it littered with hyperbole, half-truths, innuendo, and outright lies. That's the price you have to pay to have an open community.

Despite numerous success stories of people applying with below average Step I, little/no published research, and applying late in the application cycle -- people still post and write that they feel "uneasy."

Just suck it up and apply I say. The match rate for US Seniors applying only to RadOnc is ~87% . . . that's pretty good!

 

[CaptainXRT]

thanks for all the great replies... it's sad, but the more I read this forum, the less hope I have for going to Rad Onc. Is this a special group of people that's outside of the norm? 1 PhD = 6 first author publications? ... this post makes me want to raise my white flag before I'm even close. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3480600&postcount=55

Pumpkin, I can't tell you how much this forum stressed me out during my 3rd and 4th years in med school - it actually gave me panic attacks (and I've never had a panic attack outside the context of the match). I was an average applicant with no phd, no rad-onc (or medical) publications, and average 3rd year grades. I applied wide, and matched at my first choice. Don't sell yourself short - make sure you have a backup plan, then GO FOR IT!!! Try your hardest, be likeable at interviews. You still have good chances. Please don't let this forum freak you out - it's not worth the lost sleep. YOU CAN DO IT!!!! <big hugs>

 

[staphaureus]

Pumpkin, I can't tell you how much this forum stressed me out during my 3rd and 4th years in med school - it actually gave me panic attacks (and I've never had a panic attack outside the context of the match). I was an average applicant with no phd, no rad-onc (or medical) publications, and average 3rd year grades. I applied wide, and matched at my first choice. Don't sell yourself short - make sure you have a backup plan, then GO FOR IT!!! Try your hardest, be likeable at interviews. You still have good chances. Please don't let this forum freak you out - it's not worth the lost sleep. YOU CAN DO IT!!!! <big hugs>

thanks for your words of encouragements (and the hug). Will try to do the best I can and then leave it up to chance. Do you have any good suggestions on what would be a good back up plan to strengthen the application? I can only think either doing a preliminary year or a research year. Although, it might be hard applying for funding on such short notice.

 

[Pewl]

Pumpkin, I can't tell you how much this forum stressed me out during my 3rd and 4th years in med school - it actually gave me panic attacks (and I've never had a panic attack outside the context of the match). I was an average applicant with no phd, no rad-onc (or medical) publications, and average 3rd year grades. I applied wide, and matched at my first choice. Don't sell yourself short - make sure you have a backup plan, then GO FOR IT!!! Try your hardest, be likeable at interviews. You still have good chances. Please don't let this forum freak you out - it's not worth the lost sleep. YOU CAN DO IT!!!! <big hugs>

This forum does seem awfully skewed towards ridiculously overqualified. Would you say that 1st authorships are highly important? There's no way I'm gonna have the opportunity to be a PI or anything in the near future.

 

[CaptainXRT]

This forum does seem awfully skewed towards ridiculously overqualified. Would you say that 1st authorships are highly important? There's no way I'm gonna have the opportunity to be a PI or anything in the near future.

Heck, I never got a first authorship. In fact, I was only 4th author in my ONE(!) publication (eight years ago) in a completely different field. These are scary times, don't get me wrong. At least try to get your feet wet in a project (so you have something to talk about) even if it doesn't go anywhere. In your application and interviews, let your enthusiasm for the field shine through. That means alot.

 

[CaptainXRT]

thanks for your words of encouragements (and the hug). Will try to do the best I can and then leave it up to chance. Do you have any good suggestions on what would be a good back up plan to strengthen the application? I can only think either doing a preliminary year or a research year. Although, it might be hard applying for funding on such short notice.

Everybody will have different advice for backup. My plan was to go for the transitional year and then reapply. I talked about this plan with my transitional interviewers, and most of them said they could accommodate a research month early in the year, and that it would not be hard to bail into another specialty should I be unsuccessful again. I chose this approach so that I could get the icky Internal Medicine stuff out of the way, and then if I was to match into a PGY-2 program that year, have a year left to have fun and enjoy life. Also, at least on this forum, sometimes PGY1 positions open up, so you can try and snag those. But honestly, that was just my approach. I'm not sure what the best solution is. Hopefully, you won't need it 😛