Need advice. Would you do this?

[aformerstudent]

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Long story short. I was at a Caribbean med school. Terrible pre-req GPA, just took the MCAT because only the score was required, withdrew after three terms with C grades and a lot of W's.

I admittedly took the short cut and it got me nowhere. I guess during my time there I realized that I really wanted to do this but I was just ill-prepared. I applied to two other Caribbean schools and they rejected the application stating poor performance with pre-req's and my time in med school.

After some debate, I actually want to go back and do a post-bacc for two years and retake all of the pre-reqs and several upper level courses. I'm in my mid- 30's now. I have a good amount of student debt as well.

I feel that doing this the right way will yield better results and I will have the satisfaction of being well-prepared this time.

This will sound crazy but I would actually reapply to the Caribbean. I'm not someone that would advocate going to the Caribbean but the fact remains that some of us will just not be competitive for US programs no matter what we do at this point and that is me. I bashed my last school in my last post but the truth is if you work incredibly hard, any of these schools can help you get to where you want to go and I am going to take that chance. I have no chance with MD and DO at this point as I cannot get the GPA up considerably to become competitive for that route. It would take me at least another year of time and money to retake courses to be competitive for DO and I don't know if I can do that.

With the Caribbean route, I would just have to work hard to get to the top quarter of the class where those students begin to see success. It's not at all easy but I have seen it done and I've been in the Caribbean long enough that I am immune to the pain. I am interested in primary care.

Would you retake courses if you were in this predicament or would you walk away?

 

[LUCPM]

Personally I would walk away because you've already tried for 3 terms in med school and you could have figured things out by then. I'm not sure retaking prerequisites will help at this point.

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[DrMidlife]

#toughlove. All of the following assumes that you won't be talked out of going back.

Nobody is going to recommend that you go back. Nobody who knows anything. You have to know this. If you're unable to let this med school dream go, you're not in the realm of sensible grown up choices. Imho the first question is whether you really understand that. You're the guy in his mid-30's who is still waiting tables auditioning for cruise ship jobs unable to give up hope that he'll make it on Broadway.

So there's no common sense here. Encouragement should be entirely ignored. Encouragement from your parents or gf/bf should be ignored. Encouragement from doctors in practice should be ignored. That one guy you met last time who got away with it? Ignore his encouragement. You'd do as well to consult an astrologist. Point being, if you actually need encouragement, yes, walk away now.

If you haven't been doing clinical volunteering or clinical work all this time, you're completely full of crap about wanting the job of being a doctor. It's one thing for a naive 21 year old do be completely full of crap about the job. It's one thing for a naive 21 year old to have an abstract ambition of being a doctor because mumble prestige mumble parents mumble money. Point being, are you honest about your reasons for wanting to go back? Is there a long record of action that says patient care is where you're happy and fulfilled? Is "doctor" a thing you need to be for reasons other than working with sick people? All day long? Year after year?

With the Caribbean route, I would just have to work hard to get to the top quarter of the class where those students begin to see success.

100% of the incoming class is gunning for that top quarter. At best, your odds of success are 25%. It sounds like you're cool with this. But what's your threshold? If your odds are 10% do you go back? 5%?

Since you didn't get to the point of taking Step 1 on your first go round, a strong MCAT score is one of the non-negotiable steps to a restart. It would be unbelievably foolhardy to go back without having a big fat demonstration that you can smoke an hours-long, comprehensive MCQ test. You can survive on a ton of denial but your MCAT score is a data point that you really, really, really need to respect. Why? Carib schools literally depend on half the class not passing Step 1 because they only have 3rd year rotations for half the class. You need more than hope and hard work to get past that obstacle. You need to come in with a big chunk of reality.

Secondly, yes, retake prereqs and get A's. That means working every single last chem & physics problem whether you're assigned them for homework or not. It means doing university classroom classes, not online, not CC. It means being scared and stressed out about every single exam point. It means taking that fear and stress and embracing it and bathing in it and tattooing it on your face and living that fear and stress for the next 10 years.

If you only do prereqs, if you only do the bare minimum to get back in, then imho to hell with you. Go do whatever you want. If you have any shred of respect for the profession, any humility, you'll produce some traditionally reputable academic assets, such as a rigorous masters with pubs, such as a years-long effort that is productive, as the price of admission. The Carib doesn't get to allow you to be a doctor. dinguses like me, on the wards, on the other side of the first two years of med school, will be the ones who do that. Or don't.

Best of luck to you.

 

[bears1992]

I'm sure you have a large amount of student debt now (120-150k?) which can be managed with a decent paying job. Another failed attempt at carribean school would put you in debt that would almost be insurmountable. Your student debt can't be discharged in bankruptcy so it will follow you until death if you don't pay it off. 300k in students loans with a sub 100k salary is going to significantly cut into your ability to live well for the next 30 years (basically like paying a 30 mortgage for a 300k house that you don't live in).

If you go back and succeed, that debt (probably 450k if you make it all the way through plus your previous debt) will be manageable on a physicians salary. It's going to be a magnificent gamble. Good luck to whichever route you choose.

 

[YayPudding]

I would advise anyone against any going to the Caribbean for medical school at any stage of their education, but especially so given your compromised past academics and current debt. Have you taken the MCAT again and scored ideally 510+? What metrics do you have that demonstrate readiness for not only medical school curriculum, but the USMLE/COMLEX? I did a post-bacc as you did, and I believe that a strong MCAT score will make you competitive for some US MD and DO programs if you craft a razor sharp application.

There do exist many other very satisfying careers in healthcare. I am related to an OT, an NP, two RNs and a clinical researcher and they are content and driven by working with patients.

 

[bears1992]

I would advise against any going to the Caribbean for medical school at any stage of their education, but especially so given your compromised past academics and current debt. Have you taken the MCAT again and scored ideally 510+? What metrics do you have that demonstrate readiness for not only medical school curriculum, but the USMLE/COMLEX? I did a post-bacc as you did, and I believe that a strong MCAT score will make you competitive for some US MD and DO programs if you craft a razor sharp application.

There do exist many other very satisfying careers in healthcare. I am related to an OT, an NP, two RNs and a clinical researcher and they are content and driven by working with patients.

I think there were only 8 people last year that were able to drop out of an MD school and remaltriculate (not counting a leave of absence). OP has poor MD stats so there is zero chance that any MCAT score would get him into a US MD school. It's going to be Carribean or bust for OP.

 

[gamieg]

you said "it would take me at least another year of time and money to retake courses to be competitive for DO and I don't know if I can do that." this is a huge red flag in two parts: one because you don't seem to want to commit another year to pursuing a potentially viable path to medical school and two because you think that you only need one year to do this.

it would take much longer than one year to redo your prerequisites, take many quarters/semesters of rigorous upper division science courses to demonstrate that you could possibly tackle the curriculum of medical school, and go the extra step in extracurriculars to show altruism and that you know what you're really getting yourself into with this career.

with your predicament, it's honestly blind faith or bust at this point. blind faith being you work hard and long (probably at least 2-3 years) with the understanding that your chances of being accepted into any medical program is likely zero.

if it were me, I'd retake all or most of my prerequisites and get all As, retake the MCAT and kill it, apply to an SMP with these new stats (since these are generally med school auditions and you'd be taking med school coursework), do extremely well in the SMP to demonstrate you can handle a medical school curriculum, all the while making sure my ECs are nonstop and unique, and THEN apply. I'd also apply MD, DO, and caribbean to have all my bases covered and keep working during the application cycle with the understanding that my chances are most likely going to be zero. I'd set aside ~5 years to get this all done.

I don't know how long it's been since your previous medical school experience, but the goal is to demonstrate that you are not the same person who made the (lethally) bad decisions you did before. you'll have an intensely steep uphill battle convincing any admissions committees to take another chance with you and the road will be really hard and long. please make sure this is the only path you can see yourself taking before jumping in.

 

[aformerstudent]

No don't worry, I'm not stubborn and unreasonable. I made the post out of desperation because I withdrew less than a year ago and I am still figuring out my next step. It's a scary spot to be in. I guess I felt better just for trying to make an effort to find a way to continue. I've been doing a lot of research and trying for a second shot in the Caribbean and it just makes no sense statistically and more importantly financially. All the advice is good and I'd give the same advice to someone else once I get over this. I have debt right now but it's not a killer so I guess I lucked out with that. I think what I really have accepted is that I certainly had the opportunity to study medicine when I was in undergrad. I went to two excellent undergrad schools and my parents even financed a post-bacc. If it [success] didn't happen then, the odds of it happening somewhere in the future are not so good. I really don't think you can become a stellar student overnight at my age. I think success in school really has to do with what kind of a person you are, how you were raised, certain circumstances, etc.

I just have a strange feeling that it will take me a lot of time to accept this because there will always be what-if's and even those rare success stories of people who beat the odds and I personally want to be far away from hearing all that at least for now.

I'd like to ask one more question to help me feel better I suppose. What kind of stats do you think I would have needed as a Caribbean student to have been successful? If I see some of my C student classmates match, I certainly will feel disappointed somewhere down the road. I personally doubt that will happen based on my research but I'm just saying because they seem pretty sure of themselves over there.

I guess one thing that I can help people with now is continue telling them my story so that they don't make the mistake I did and fall for the trap that just anyone can become a doctor because that is not true.

Here's the part that disappoints me the most. After going through all of this and walking away from it, you actually start to doubt your reasons for wanting to become a doctor in the first place as if you perhaps made a mistake. I mean I don't think I made a mistake for wanting to become a doctor but for at least 15 years I still haven't figured out how to properly answer the question "Why do you want to become a doctor?" It's a tricky question because it seems pretty genuine on the outside but the answer I would always give doesn't seem to be helping me out in succeeding towards that goal. I think I'm accepting the answer to that question really goes something like this... "Because I've always been a good student and I'm an expert test-taker..." I'm starting to wonder if whatever comes after that line really even matters.

 

[Goro]

Your medical career is over. You had your chance, and you failed out. Magic is not going to occur and make a second at-bat possible.

The Carib diploma mills grow fat and rich on desperate marks like you.

Even if you made straight As at a post-bac or SMP now, you'd still be DOA at my school.

No don't worry, I'm not stubborn and unreasonable. I made the post out of desperation because I withdrew less than a year ago and I am still figuring out my next step. It's a scary spot to be in. I guess I felt better just for trying to make an effort to find a way to continue. I've been doing a lot of research and trying for a second shot in the Caribbean and it just makes no sense statistically and more importantly financially. All the advice is good and I'd give the same advice to someone else once I get over this. I have debt right now but it's not a killer so I guess I lucked out with that. I think what I really have accepted is that I certainly had the opportunity to study medicine when I was in undergrad. I went to two excellent undergrad schools and my parents even financed a post-bacc. If it [success] didn't happen then, the odds of it happening somewhere in the future are not so good. I really don't think you can become a stellar student overnight at my age. I think success in school really has to do with what kind of a person you are, how you were raised, certain circumstances, etc.

I just have a strange feeling that it will take me a lot of time to accept this because there will always be what-if's and even those rare success stories of people who beat the odds and I personally want to be far away from hearing all that at least for now.

I'd like to ask one more question to help me feel better I suppose. What kind of stats do you think I would have needed as a Caribbean student to have been successful? If I see some of my C student classmates match, I certainly will feel disappointed somewhere down the road. I personally doubt that will happen based on my research but I'm just saying because they seem pretty sure of themselves over there.

I guess one thing that I can help people with now is continue telling them my story so that they don't make the mistake I did and fall for the trap that just anyone can become a doctor because that is not true.

Here's the part that disappoints me the most. After going through all of this and walking away from it, you actually start to doubt your reasons for wanting to become a doctor in the first place as if you perhaps made a mistake. I mean I don't think I made a mistake for wanting to become a doctor but for at least 15 years I still haven't figured out how to properly answer the question "Why do you want to become a doctor?" It's a tricky question because it seems pretty genuine on the outside but the answer I would always give doesn't seem to be helping me out in succeeding towards that goal. I think I'm accepting the answer to that question really goes something like this... "Because I've always been a good student and I'm an expert test-taker..." I'm starting to wonder if whatever comes after that line really even matters.

 

[aformerstudent]

Your medical career is over. You had your chance, and you failed out. Magic is not going to occur and make a second at-bat possible.

The Carib diploma mills grow fat and rich on desperate marks like you.

Even if you made straight As at a post-bac or SNP now, you'd still be DOA at my school.

Chill Goro,

Nobody is applying to your school. My medical career is over when I say it's over. Ok

 

[Goro]

It will be a lot faster and more efficient if you simply take your tuition money and flush it down the toilet.

Chill Goro,

Nobody is applying to your school. My medical career is over when I say it's over. Ok

 

[aformerstudent]

It will be a lot faster and more efficient if you simply take your tuition money and flush it down the toilet.

I'll keep that in mind.

 

[Mountain lawyer]

Long story short. I was at a Caribbean med school. Terrible pre-req GPA, just took the MCAT because only the score was required, withdrew after three terms with C grades and a lot of W's.

I admittedly took the short cut and it got me nowhere. I guess during my time there I realized that I really wanted to do this but I was just ill-prepared. I applied to two other Caribbean schools and they rejected the application stating poor performance with pre-req's and my time in med school.

After some debate, I actually want to go back and do a post-bacc for two years and retake all of the pre-reqs and several upper level courses. I'm in my mid- 30's now. I have a good amount of student debt as well.

I feel that doing this the right way will yield better results and I will have the satisfaction of being well-prepared this time.

This will sound crazy but I would actually reapply to the Caribbean. I'm not someone that would advocate going to the Caribbean but the fact remains that some of us will just not be competitive for US programs no matter what we do at this point and that is me. I bashed my last school in my last post but the truth is if you work incredibly hard, any of these schools can help you get to where you want to go and I am going to take that chance. I have no chance with MD and DO at this point as I cannot get the GPA up considerably to become competitive for that route. It would take me at least another year of time and money to retake courses to be competitive for DO and I don't know if I can do that.

With the Caribbean route, I would just have to work hard to get to the top quarter of the class where those students begin to see success. It's not at all easy but I have seen it done and I've been in the Caribbean long enough that I am immune to the pain. I am interested in primary care.

Would you retake courses if you were in this predicament or would you walk away?

I knew one individual who went to a Caribbean medical school and after three semesters, I believe, he realized it was too challenging for him mainly because he had to teach himself, and now he is doing research at Emory University. I don't believe he is re-applying to medical school in the United States or in the Caribbean. I'm not certain that re-doing the pre-requisite classes is beneficial in anyway, that sounds very expensive. It sounds like you have the requisite classes, obviously you got into medical school the first time. I think schools will rightfully be very hesitant to accept you because of the insufficient prior performance. Do you have a Plan B? Do you have a previous career?

 

[aformerstudent]

I knew one individual who went to a Caribbean medical school and after three semesters, I believe, he realized it was too challenging for him mainly because he had to teach himself, and now he is doing research at Emory University. I don't believe he is re-applying to medical school in the United States or in the Caribbean. I'm not certain that re-doing the pre-requisite classes is beneficial in anyway, that sounds very expensive. It sounds like you have the requisite classes, obviously you got into medical school the first time. I think schools will rightfully be very hesitant to accept you because of the insufficient prior performance. Do you have a Plan B? Do you have a previous career?

Goro is a little confused. I didn't fail out so I wouldn't be DOA at another Caribbean school. Additionally, I've seen students restart, pass STEP 1 and match even at SGU. So do I look at that or take Goro's reckless advice. I even know a student who failed out of two Caribbean schools and matched lol. So I don't appreciate it when the "authority" feeds bull****. If that doesn't work at his/her school then that's fine but keep it to yourself until I apply to your school. Don't EVER tell another person when they are done because you know you don't have the answer to that.

To answer your question, I'm making some phone calls. I might have not gotten it done the first try but I don't quit that easily. If I figure out what I'm going to do, I'll certainly update the thread.

Some people have to realize this is med school; it's not life and death. There's more than one way to do things. The question is how far is one willing to go?

 

[Goro]

I know Lotto winner too. But it's not a good strategy for one's retirement. Do you want to trade even more anecdotes?

Yes, you didn't fail out, but that bus was coming for you. You're still a Carib refugee. You were smart by getting out before you went too deep down the rabbit hole of debt, but now, moth-like to a flame, you're heading down the same hole.

So don't listen to me...pay attention to the very wise DrMidlife.

Goro is a little confused. I didn't fail out so I wouldn't be DOA at another Caribbean school. Additionally, I've seen students restart, pass STEP 1 and match even at SGU. So do I look at that or take Goro's reckless advice. I even know a student who failed out of two Caribbean schools and matched lol. So I don't appreciate it when the "authority" feeds bull****. If that doesn't work at his/her school then that's fine but keep it to yourself until I apply to your school. Don't EVER tell another person when they are done because you know you don't have the answer to that.

To answer your question, I'm making some phone calls. I might have not gotten it done the first try but I don't quit that easily. If I figure out what I'm going to do, I'll certainly update the thread.

Some people have to realize this is med school; it's not life and death. There's more than one way to do things. The question is how far is one willing to go?

 

[aformerstudent]

Goro, if you wish to continue this discussion, you can private message me if you wish. I don't spook easily man...regarding anything.

 

[bears1992]

Goro, if you wish to continue this discussion, you can private message me if you wish. I don't spook easily man...regarding anything.

You posted on this site asking if you should retake the prereqs or walk away. An actual adcom for a US medical school replies to your post telling you to walk away. You then proceed to insult him. lol. If you want to go back to the Caribbean, do it, but don't start getting upset when you ask someones advice and they give it to you, especially from someone who is actually qualified to give advice, not like all of us premeds.

 

[aformerstudent]

You posted on this site asking if you should retake the prereqs or walk away. An actual adcom for a US medical schools replies to your post telling you to walk away. You then proceed to insult him. lol. If you want to go back to the Caribbean, do it, but don't start getting upset when you ask someones advice and they give it to you, especially from someone who is actually qualified to give advice, not like all of us premeds.

lol, kid stick to finishing your pre reqs. That conversation is not in our league yet ok. When I want a pre-med's advice, I'll go to the pre-allo form.

 

[bears1992]

lol, kid stick to finishing your pre reqs. That conversation is not in our league yet ok. When I want a pre-med's advice, I'll go to the pre-allo form.

You, as a premed, posted this question in the pre-medical forum...

 

[ddmbmom]

Let me be the one to encourage you here. I encourage you ti so some deep deep soul searching because it appears you may possibly have some thought pattern errors in emotional intelligence, Google it. U cannot go on to randan website and ask complete strangers who have not a clue to your mental, physical, emotional, intellectual and spirit chemical make up. You can read tons on the internet, get tons of advice from friends, many of whom will only give you the answer you want to hear, so they maintain their friendship with you, same with family but not always. Goto and midlife have the best practical non emotional advice on here because if their significant experience with likely thousands of people just like you seeking advice from this website. Ultimately u know yourself best and have the answers from within. Dig deep, think, listen, write these thoughts and look at them later to determine their validity. I'm not saying you're out, but I'm sure as he'll not gonna say you're in. You got a brain, be in touch with yourself, get a plan write it out, reassess maybe weekly or monthly, believe you have the tools to figure this out.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile

 

[ddmbmom]

Forgive me for spelling errors I am an expert writer but this was a poor example of penmanship

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[Crayola227]

ffs

gtfo

and honestly, looking for another career will be better for you anyway, you just don't know it yet

 

[aformerstudent]

Let me be the one to encourage you here. I encourage you ti so some deep deep soul searching because it appears you may possibly have some thought pattern errors in emotional intelligence, Google it. U cannot go on to randan website and ask complete strangers who have not a clue to your mental, physical, emotional, intellectual and spirit chemical make up. You can read tons on the internet, get tons of advice from friends, many of whom will only give you the answer you want to hear, so they maintain their friendship with you, same with family but not always. Goto and midlife have the best practical non emotional advice on here because if their significant experience with likely thousands of people just like you seeking advice from this website. Ultimately u know yourself best and have the answers from within. Dig deep, think, listen, write these thoughts and look at them later to determine their validity. I'm not saying you're out, but I'm sure as he'll not gonna say you're in. You got a brain, be in touch with yourself, get a plan write it out, reassess maybe weekly or monthly, believe you have the tools to figure this out.

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile

Thank you for your post. Yeah I know what you mean. And you're right, how am I supposed to get my answer from this forum. Ultimately, I'm the one who can only figure the answer out.

I'm just perplexed how some people are so anal about this whole process. It's medical school, yeah we all know it's hard but it's also not impossible. Kudos to those who get it right the first try but there are those who struggle and get it done other ways. That's just fact. Goro and midwife were attacking me and that's why they get the answers they get because they don't know me. There's no reason for that; are they seriously judging me based on a paragraph of my life? Very poor judgment on both their parts then.

Goro and midwife are giving cookie cutter advice and that's the problem. That's fine to post on a random forum for all to see but you wouldn't give cookie cutter advice to someone you actually know. I already spoke to several US MD programs just to see what they would say and none of them said I would be "DOA" because I attended and withdrew from a Caribbean school. Point being, if I have it in me, I can attempt this again but it's an uphill battle.

And I see nothing wrong with my plan. Do you? I'm retaking the pre-req's and the MCAT and applying back to a better Caribbean school. I'm not rushing into that just yet but that's the blueprint.

SDN is 90% negative so you just have to filter those knuckleheads out and find the genuine people. But the 10% that are genuine are worth the read. I haven't decided anything yet but like you said, only I can figure the answer out. So we'll see.

 

[aformerstudent]

ffs

gtfo

and honestly, looking for another career will be better for you anyway, you just don't know it yet

lol, I bet you feel like a big man typing that. Go study for your orgo exam bud. Worry about your own journey.

 

[Goro]

Crayola is a clinician.

Looks like you already made your decision. You've been warned.

lol, I bet you feel like a big man typing that. Go study for your orgo exam bud. Worry about your own journey.

 

[aformerstudent]

Crayola is a clinician.

Looks like you already made your decision. You've been warned.

Good to know Goro, then you and him both need to learn how to speak to other humans.

 

[Goro]

Stay out of New York City then. My people use the term "F You" as a greeting. Look, people come here for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses, and certainly not to tell people what they want to hear.

We also do not suffer fools lightly. You are engaging in behavior that the historian Barbara Tuchman described as folly, meaning, "behavior contrary to one's self interest". Even worse, you also do not learn from your mistakes.

Therefore, you will be getting what you deserve.

Crayola is a her, BTW.

Good to know Goro, then you and him both need to learn how to speak to other humans.

 

[Shotapp]

No don't worry, I'm not stubborn and unreasonable.

Sure you aren't...

 

[Lawpy]

Would you retake courses if you were in this predicament or would you walk away?

I would walk away. I would also take @DrMidlife @Goro @Crayola227 comments/warnings seriously.

 

[aformerstudent]

Stay out of New York City then. My people use the term "F You" as a greeting. Look, people come here for realistic advice, not hugs and kisses, and certainly not to tell people what they want to hear.

We also do not suffer fools lightly. You are engaging in behavior that the historian Barbara Tuchman described as folly, meaning, "behavior contrary to one's self interest". Even worse, you also do not learn from your mistakes.

Therefore, you will be getting what you deserve.

Crayola is a her, BTW.

You disappoint me Goro. Well at least we know where we both stand.

 

[Lawpy]

lol, I bet you feel like a big man typing that. Go study for your orgo exam bud. Worry about your own journey.

Good to know Goro, then you and him both need to learn how to speak to other humans.

You disappoint me Goro. Well at least we know where we both stand.

I would also work on developing a thick skin amd not get offended by blunt and realistic comments on the internet.

 

[aformerstudent]

I would also work on developing a thick skin amd not get offended by blunt and realistic comments on the internet.

And I would suggest being more open-minded.

One day when you have a dying patient in front of you, I don't think they would appreciate it if you were being blunt.

 

[jorjorswens]

It is going to take a lot of thick skin to make it in medicine in the US. If you don't like their advice work your ass off and prove them wrong. Their words are just letting you know you have an uphill battle. It is not the time to find excuses or get mad at criticism. It won't help you going forward and it shows a low emotional intelligence.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Stagg737]

OP, you're getting unnecessarily defensive. If you really think you can do it, then go for it. No one is stopping you, but pretty much everyone (most of whom are either adcoms or much farther along than you ever got) are warning you how poor your chances of success are. You said it yourself, you were a C student with a bunch of W's on your transcript. That would look bad if you were a US MD/DO, nevermind being a Carib grad. You dropped out of med school, getting back in anywhere that will give you a decent shot at actually matching is going to be very difficult. That's just a fact. It doesn't matter if you had been getting C's/Ws at Harvard and dropped out, you'd still be lucky to get accepted anywhere. What's worse is you apparently dropped out recently, which means med schools are going to look at you as the same person that just dropped out. No legitimate school wants to take someone that they don't think will finish, that's just reality. You need to take some more time to prove to them that you're a different person than when you dropped out. If you don't, you're just screwing yourself over from the start.

If your heart is really set on medicine, then go for it. Just realize that nothing will have really changed since the last time you attended school. Med school is still going to be difficult, you'll still be at a Carib school (which alone will significantly hurt your chances), and it seems like you're the same person you were when you left (maybe not, idk). So you need to look in the mirror and really ask "what's going to be different this time?" You're trying to get back to the Carib, praying someone will give you another shot and then having to hope 4 (maybe 5 or 6) years from now that you'll be a strong enough applicant to match somewhere (which doesn't sound promising given your previous attempt at med school). People are being blunt because it's obvious that you're in a terrible position as a future candidate, and more often than not the underdogs don't get their happy ending (which is why they're underdogs). So if it's really the only path you can see going forward, then good luck. Just make sure you have some back-up plans as well otherwise you're only setting yourself up for misery in the future.

I'd like to ask one more question to help me feel better I suppose. What kind of stats do you think I would have needed as a Caribbean student to have been successful? If I see some of my C student classmates match, I certainly will feel disappointed somewhere down the road. I personally doubt that will happen based on my research but I'm just saying because they seem pretty sure of themselves over there.

Chances are some of them will match. However, it won't be in a field they want, or in a location they want, or even at a program that will train them well to become decent physicians. They'll be settling for a family med program in the middle of nowhere Wyoming with inadequate resources, terrible benefits, and attendings that would rather be left alone. If they can be happy with that, then good for them, but I know too many people who went the Caribbean route and ended up miserable to ever suggest it as a choice for someone who has a goal more than just matching.

 

[KnowledgeBot4000]

Thank you for your post. Yeah I know what you mean. And you're right, how am I supposed to get my answer from this forum. Ultimately, I'm the one who can only figure the answer out.

I'm just perplexed how some people are so anal about this whole process. It's medical school, yeah we all know it's hard but it's also not impossible. Kudos to those who get it right the first try but there are those who struggle and get it done other ways. That's just fact. Goro and midwife were attacking me and that's why they get the answers they get because they don't know me. There's no reason for that; are they seriously judging me based on a paragraph of my life? Very poor judgment on both their parts then.

Goro and midwife are giving cookie cutter advice and that's the problem. That's fine to post on a random forum for all to see but you wouldn't give cookie cutter advice to someone you actually know. I already spoke to several US MD programs just to see what they would say and none of them said I would be "DOA" because I attended and withdrew from a Caribbean school. Point being, if I have it in me, I can attempt this again but it's an uphill battle.

And I see nothing wrong with my plan. Do you? I'm retaking the pre-req's and the MCAT and applying back to a better Caribbean school. I'm not rushing into that just yet but that's the blueprint.

SDN is 90% negative so you just have to filter those knuckleheads out and find the genuine people. But the 10% that are genuine are worth the read. I haven't decided anything yet but like you said, only I can figure the answer out. So we'll see.

The problem is there's a lot of double-think among adcoms and higher ed administration, and they're always trying to protect their jobs and reputation. They also have an incentive to give you answers like this as it's in their best interest.

If I had a cush job working in administration, I'd probably give vague and useless open ended answers too. How do I know you won't spend 3 years getting a 4.0 then score a 40+ (old scale) on the MCAT? I don't, so if even what seems like a terrible applicant asked me what their chances were, I'd probably just say "There's no way we can no for certain" or "I would never say anyone's situation make it absolutely impossible to get into medical schools." Also, your race is hugely important (it's worth like 10 MCAT points being black instead of Asian), but medschools won't even acknowledge that (affirmitive action is even illegal in Cali, though it's still effectively in place), so when assessing your chances they can't even ask you the hugely important "What race are you?" question despite caring so much about it. Also, if you apply even though they know you have no chance in hell in getting in, it's just free monies for them. So they have every incentive to lie and just give pretty much BS answers. For these reasons I highly doubt you're going to get blunt, honest advice from contacting schools.

Anyways, here's what we do know:

#1) It's impossible to know exactly how smart you are and how good you are at this whole "medical school thing" until you've done it. Since you've already dabbled in the Caribbean, the best indicators we have is that doing well in medical school isn't where your talent lies.

#2) Lots of students with advantages give their best effort to get in and get through medical school and fail. You're trying to do this with a massive disadvantage.

#3) To any reasonable outside person (who is somewhat knowledgeable about the current medical school application process), the rewards do not seem to justify the risks. Could applying again turn out to be the best decision of your life? Sure, but no one (not even you) really has any way of knowing this. Could applying against turn out to be the worst decision of your life? Sure, but no one (not even you) really has any way of knowing this. But, to those of us on the outside looking it, it's pretty easy to say "the rewards do not seem to justify the risk for someone in your current situation and you seem at least a bit naive on what you're attempting to do."

Either way, best of luck in whatever you decide. If you do decide to go for it (which I would recommend against), I'd listen to DrMidLife.

 

[MusicDOc124]

.

 

[aformerstudent]

OP, you're getting unnecessarily defensive. If you really think you can do it, then go for it. No one is stopping you, but pretty much everyone (most of whom are either adcoms or much farther along than you ever got) are warning you how poor your chances of success are. You said it yourself, you were a C student with a bunch of W's on your transcript. That would look bad if you were a US MD/DO, nevermind being a Carib grad. You dropped out of med school, getting back in anywhere that will give you a decent shot at actually matching is going to be very difficult. That's just a fact. It doesn't matter if you had been getting C's/Ws at Harvard and dropped out, you'd still be lucky to get accepted anywhere. What's worse is you apparently dropped out recently, which means med schools are going to look at you as the same person that just dropped out. No legitimate school wants to take someone that they don't think will finish, that's just reality. You need to take some more time to prove to them that you're a different person than when you dropped out. If you don't, you're just screwing yourself over from the start.

If your heart is really set on medicine, then go for it. Just realize that nothing will have really changed since the last time you attended school. Med school is still going to be difficult, you'll still be at a Carib school (which alone will significantly hurt your chances), and it seems like you're the same person you were when you left (maybe not, idk). So you need to look in the mirror and really ask "what's going to be different this time?" You're trying to get back to the Carib, praying someone will give you another shot and then having to hope 4 (maybe 5 or 6) years from now that you'll be a strong enough applicant to match somewhere (which doesn't sound promising given your previous attempt at med school). People are being blunt because it's obvious that you're in a terrible position as a future candidate, and more often than not the underdogs don't get their happy ending (which is why they're underdogs). So if it's really the only path you can see going forward, then good luck. Just make sure you have some back-up plans as well otherwise you're only setting yourself up for misery in the future.



Chances are some of them will match. However, it won't be in a field they want, or in a location they want, or even at a program that will train them well to become decent physicians. They'll be settling for a family med program in the middle of nowhere Wyoming with inadequate resources, terrible benefits, and attendings that would rather be left alone. If they can be happy with that, then good for them, but I know too many people who went the Caribbean route and ended up miserable to ever suggest it as a choice for someone who has a goal more than just matching.

You seem like a reasonable person. I'm listening.

In the initial post, I clearly said I was looking at a post-bacc here and based on that and a new MCAT I would make the decision to go forward with trying for SGU. I'm trying to demonstrate that I want to improve. I even humbly said, I made a mistake accepting an offer to a third-tier school with low stats. They got me good but you know what, I experienced med school already which is very valuable going forward; I know what apparently works and what doesn't. I made a mistake, I understand it now I am devising a plan to fix it. That's what I'm scratching my head about, did I leave out the part of taking the long road? I'm sorry but grades are not the equivalent of a criminal record. Grades can be fixed. I'm working on my study skills right now and trying to get ready for Gen Chem I and II in the summer. If that goes well, I am registering for the fall and if I reach that point, I will not look back till the post-bacc and MCAT are done and I can talk with SGU about another shot. If SGU says no, then I'll have pre-reqs that I can use for another program. I doubt they'll say no though.

I even stated that I had reasonable expectations. I pursued this route because my shadowing experience and interests were related to primary care. I think the Caribbean route can make that happen and that is why I considered it in the first place. Now that I know what's ahead, I have a choice to adapt or walk away. I'm fixing things so I want to stay on the path. The post-bacc and MCAT is a two-year commitment. A lot can change during that time especially when you have someone going in who knows exactly what is ahead. The issue here is not medicine, it's basic sciences. Let me fix that first.

Regarding future outlook, there will always be primary care positions in rural areas or community hospitals that need to be filled by IMG's. I would not be against that.

The only problem with this plan is if you can demonstrate to me that a Caribbean withdrawal is already a black flag. Regardless of C's and W's, a withdrawal is not a dismissal. If you cannot produce such statistics, there is no point in telling someone that they are going to be "DOA." You let me figure out when it's time to walk away even if it's something you would not do yourself.

But to get back to your post, the heads up is appreciated and that's what I need to hear and I'm listening. Let me get through Gen Chem I and II. I think that will tell me a lot about the steps ahead. Is that being unreasonable?

 

[sloop]

Dude, your medical career is toast. I don't know how many people with more experience than you need to tell you this before you get the picture. You can spend money trying to salvage it if you like, but that ship is lost.

 

[aformerstudent]

The problem is there's a lot of double-think among adcoms and higher ed administration, and they're always trying to protect their jobs and reputation. They also have an incentive to give you answers like this as it's in their best interest.

If I had a cush job working in administration, I'd probably give vague and useless open ended answers too. How do I know you won't spend 3 years getting a 4.0 then score a 40+ (old scale) on the MCAT? I don't, so if even what seems like a terrible applicant asked me what their chances were, I'd probably just say "There's no way we can no for certain" or "I would never say anyone's situation make it absolutely impossible to get into medical schools." Also, your race is hugely important (it's worth like 10 MCAT points being black instead of Asian), but medschools won't even acknowledge that (affirmitive action is even illegal in Cali, though it's still effectively in place), so when assessing your chances they can't even ask you the hugely important "What race are you?" question despite caring so much about it. Also, if you apply even though they know you have no chance in hell in getting in, it's just free monies for them. So they have every incentive to lie and just give pretty much BS answers. For these reasons I highly doubt you're going to get blunt, honest advice from contacting schools.

Anyways, here's what we do know:

#1) It's impossible to know exactly how smart you are and how good you are at this whole "medical school thing" until you've done it. Since you've already dabbled in the Caribbean, the best indicators we have is that doing well in medical school isn't where your talent lies.

#2) Lots of students with advantages give their best effort to get in and get through medical school and fail. You're trying to do this with a massive disadvantage.

#3) To any reasonable outside person (who is somewhat knowledgeable about the current medical school application process), the rewards do not seem to justify the risks. Could applying again turn out to be the best decision of your life? Sure, but no one (not even you) really has any way of knowing this. Could applying against turn out to be the worst decision of your life? Sure, but no one (not even you) really has any way of knowing this. But, to those of us on the outside looking it, it's pretty easy to say "the rewards do not seem to justify the risk for someone in your current situation and you seem at least a bit naive on what you're attempting to do."

Either way, best of luck in whatever you decide. If you do decide to go for it (which I would recommend against), I'd listen to DrMidLife.

You sound like a very reasonable person as well. I can't argue with anything you said.

You're right about one thing; I won't get good advice contacting schools. That's why it has never occurred to me to work towards perfecting even a DO app because I think US programs are biased towards people like myself to begin with. As Goro eloquently pointed out, people like myself really are refugees waiting for a chance and that's where the Caribbean comes in. The opportunity is there and no questions are asked. The problem is are you ready for that opportunity? The first time, I went in blind. I want to fix the problems and go back in with some proper credentials. I've been arguing strongly that nobody should apply to the Caribbean without doing their research. My research was my failure to make it the first time. The truth is, the right student can succeed down that path if they were very driven. I'm trying to get to that point.

Medical school is not about smarts. What exactly is smart anyway? Define it for me.

Yeah the risks are there. I'm looking at them. I wouldn't say I'm being naive. Naive would be blaming the school and saying it was them and not me. I'm saying it's me and I know what I need to fix. Is it risky? Sure, but naive? I'm not so sure.

Anyway, thanks for your unbiased info. I'm still making calls and putting things together for the summer.

 

[aformerstudent]

Dude, your medical career is toast. I don't know how many people with more experience than you need to tell you this before you get the picture. You can spend money trying to salvage it if you like, but that ship is lost.

Says who dude? Go study for your exams and leave that up to me.

 

[sloop]

Says who dude? Go study for your exams and leave that up to me.

I'm a matched fourth year medical student basically just waiting to graduate, so I don't have any exams.

People generally don't recover in your situation. That's why everyone has said to let it go. Of course it's ultimately your decision but you asked our opinions. You got them. Be an adult and deal with it.

 

[ddmbmom]

I carefully will add (jo attacks please!) The medical director I work under (I am the chief clinical officer) at our very small rural rehab office is a new Caribbean grad at 26 years old, and while I and our health care team has a great level of trust in b each other's respective areas, he is the MD and has training way beyond our masters degrees, and he is doing a good job, we are lucky to have him, and he makes a good income for his family of 5

Sent from my SM-G900V using SDN mobile

 

[Stagg737]

You seem like a reasonable person. I'm listening.

In the initial post, I clearly said I was looking at a post-bacc here and based on that and a new MCAT I would make the decision to go forward with trying for SGU. I'm trying to demonstrate that I want to improve. I even humbly said, I made a mistake accepting an offer to a third-tier school with low stats. They got me good but you know what, I experienced med school already which is very valuable going forward; I know what apparently works and what doesn't. I made a mistake, I understand it now I am devising a plan to fix it. That's what I'm scratching my head about, did I leave out the part of taking the long road? I'm sorry but grades are not the equivalent of a criminal record. Grades can be fixed. I'm working on my study skills right now and trying to get ready for Gen Chem I and II in the summer. If that goes well, I am registering for the fall and if I reach that point, I will not look back till the post-bacc and MCAT are done and I can talk with SGU about another shot. If SGU says no, then I'll have pre-reqs that I can use for another program. I doubt they'll say no though.

I even stated that I had reasonable expectations. I pursued this route because my shadowing experience and interests were related to primary care. I think the Caribbean route can make that happen and that is why I considered it in the first place. Now that I know what's ahead, I have a choice to adapt or walk away. I'm fixing things so I want to stay on the path. The post-bacc and MCAT is a two-year commitment. A lot can change during that time especially when you have someone going in who knows exactly what is ahead. The issue here is not medicine, it's basic sciences. Let me fix that first.

Regarding future outlook, there will always be primary care positions in rural areas or community hospitals that need to be filled by IMG's. I would not be against that.

The only problem with this plan is if you can demonstrate to me that a Caribbean withdrawal is already a black flag. Regardless of C's and W's, a withdrawal is not a dismissal. If you cannot produce such statistics, there is no point in telling someone that they are going to be "DOA." You let me figure out when it's time to walk away even if it's something you would not do yourself.

But to get back to your post, the heads up is appreciated and that's what I need to hear and I'm listening. Let me get through Gen Chem I and II. I think that will tell me a lot about the steps ahead. Is that being unreasonable?

So a few things here...

It seems like you've got a plan laid out and are looking for somewhat longer term fixes, which will be a plus for you, but you'll still have to show that you're a more mature, well-prepared person than you were during your first go. If an adcom member asks you "What's changed since your first time in med school?" you better have a damn good answer, and it needs to be more than "I retook some pre-reqs and did better on the MCAT". You need to show you're a better applicant both on paper and in person. So be ready for that. Other than that, I don't think the plan you've got set up is too bad, I would just be concerned that it won't be enough to get you past the stigma of being a med-school dropout.

As for leaving med school, how schools look at your reapplication will depend largely on why you left. Someone who was forced to leave because of a medical issue will be looked at far more favorably than someone who left because they were struggling academically and felt like they couldn't cut it (I'm not sure what your reasons for leaving, but it sounds like it may be closer to the latter from previous posts). Some schools may see a medical withdrawal as nbd if the person can show the issue is in the past and is taken care of. But someone that chose to leave because they were struggling will be seen as someone who felt medicine wasn't for them. The unfortunate part of medicine is that oftentimes you only get one shot and if you leave there's just no coming back at a lot of places. It's the reason why the question "Have you ever matriculated at a medical school?" is part of the primary application on both the US MD and DO applications. Some schools may be willing to look past it if you're a decent applicant, but some schools (including mine) throw those applications straight into the reject pile. I'm not sure if Caribbean schools will look at you the same way, but my guess is that there's a good chance at least some of them will.

Your flexibility and willingness to match pretty much anywhere will be helpful if you manage to get to the match, the biggest problem I can foresee with what you've said is getting to that point. It sounds like you're going to take it one step at a time and see how it works out. If that's really what you want then go for it. Just realize that even if you do well in your post-bac and get a decent MCAT you're on a very, very uphill road and you may still fail even if you do everything right.

People on here are being blunt and negative because your situation really is bad. If you manage to overcome all of the obstacles (some of which may very well be insurmountable) you'll be one of the miracle success stories. Odds are you won't be, that's just the unfortunate truth. Either way, it seems like you've made up your mind to go for it, so just make sure from here on out you commit 100%. At least that way if it doesn't end up working out you can take another path knowing you did everything you could.

 

[Lawpy]

And I would suggest being more open-minded.

One day when you have a dying patient in front of you, I don't think they would appreciate it if you were being blunt.

The situation is not analogous. If you are serious about your career, you should be open-minded and take advice from those who are involved in the process seriously. Your plan isn't realistic and it wouldn't be surprising if you ended up in a similar problem few years from now if you continue with the plan. We are trying to prevent that from happening.

But hey, if you want to stick with your plan despite the inevitable failure, by all means go for it. All we can do is advise and the rest is up to you.

 

[aformerstudent]

So a few things here...

It seems like you've got a plan laid out and are looking for somewhat longer term fixes, which will be a plus for you, but you'll still have to show that you're a more mature, well-prepared person than you were during your first go. If an adcom member asks you "What's changed since your first time in med school?" you better have a damn good answer, and it needs to be more than "I retook some pre-reqs and did better on the MCAT". You need to show you're a better applicant both on paper and in person. So be ready for that. Other than that, I don't think the plan you've got set up is too bad, I would just be concerned that it won't be enough to get you past the stigma of being a med-school dropout.

As for leaving med school, how schools look at your reapplication will depend largely on why you left. Someone who was forced to leave because of a medical issue will be looked at far more favorably than someone who left because they were struggling academically and felt like they couldn't cut it (I'm not sure what your reasons for leaving, but it sounds like it may be closer to the latter from previous posts). Some schools may see a medical withdrawal as nbd if the person can show the issue is in the past and is taken care of. But someone that chose to leave because they were struggling will be seen as someone who felt medicine wasn't for them. The unfortunate part of medicine is that oftentimes you only get one shot and if you leave there's just no coming back at a lot of places. It's the reason why the question "Have you ever matriculated at a medical school?" is part of the primary application on both the US MD and DO applications. Some schools may be willing to look past it if you're a decent applicant, but some schools (including mine) throw those applications straight into the reject pile. I'm not sure if Caribbean schools will look at you the same way, but my guess is that there's a good chance at least some of them will.

Your flexibility and willingness to match pretty much anywhere will be helpful if you manage to get to the match, the biggest problem I can foresee with what you've said is getting to that point. It sounds like you're going to take it one step at a time and see how it works out. If that's really what you want then go for it. Just realize that even if you do well in your post-bac and get a decent MCAT you're on a very, very uphill road and you may still fail even if you do everything right.

People on here are being blunt and negative because your situation really is bad. If you manage to overcome all of the obstacles (some of which may very well be insurmountable) you'll be one of the miracle success stories. Odds are you won't be, that's just the unfortunate truth. Either way, it seems like you've made up your mind to go for it, so just make sure from here on out you commit 100%. At least that way if it doesn't end up working out you can take another path knowing you did everything you could.

I'll keep adding to this story.

A few weeks ago, I interviewed for a post-bacc program. I showed the director my grades and instead of attacking me he said "I think this school was unethical in accepting you." He showed me a rough plan and he said forget MD and DO and try for SGU. He also did tell me to look at other healthcare careers but I told him, "If I want to study to become a PA or a podiatrist, first I have to want to become a PA or a podiatrist." He also had the opportunity to be blunt and tell me what most of the people above are telling me but he didn't. He has nothing to lose, he's not making any money off of my acceptance to his post-bacc program.

Regarding coursework, it will be the post-bacc/MCAT and at least one term of upper level courses. The post-bacc alone and an MCAT would not help me much and I was told this by the schools that rejected me. So yes, it's quite the uphill battle. But my reasoning for even considering an uphill battle is that medicine will still be a 25-30 year career even at my age. If that is what you want to do with your life, do you walk away from it because you couldn't fight it out for another two years? If after my first Caribbean experience, I concluded that I did not like something or I lacked the capacity, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. When I was sitting in my room cramming for biochem, micro, and genetics, I told myself something is not right here and I need to get out and regroup. I took three NBME subject exams during my two terms and "passed" all three. I'm not an idiot just wishfully thinking I can retake undergrad premed courses.

As far as the Caribbean goes, they accept students who want to repeat. I've seen them with my own eyes. We had Saba, AUC, AUA, and SGU repeats at MUA. There are some schools that will not accept dismissals but that is not my case. My Dean's letter clearly states officially withdrawn on academic probation. At MUA, withdrawing a course puts you on academic probation. It is what it is. SGU has already said I can put in an application in the future.

All of these Caribbean programs are glorified STEP1 prep programs. You really can't look at basic sciences as "medical school" in the literal sense. You have to look at it as test preparation on steroids. Perhaps that's another way where I went wrong. I approached medical school too broadly and got lost somewhere. If you stay focused and efficient at each step, you can better navigate each step until you finally get to clinical medicine. It's really a schooling issue right now.

There are a lot of checkpoints along this path and one slip up sinks the whole ship. My initial approach was based on taking short cuts. My new approach is taking a traditional route knowing what is ahead. Like I said, Gen Chem I and II are a small investment at this point. Let me see how those go. I can learn a lot about what has changed and what isn't changing.

The problem I have with the blunt approach is that it's really wrong and in poor-taste. Generally speaking, sure be blunt if you wish but I would be more blunt with someone who has no idea what they are doing. I.E. the student going to the Caribbean who wants to become a cardiothoracic surgeon and who has no idea what that is or the pre-med who is hell bent on EC's at the expense of their grades. I think I've been pretty honest with my past and my future goals, and that I have learned that there are no shortcuts to an MD. I thought I'd be past the blunt stage but I guess that's not the case. To be more frank, a DOA in my situation would be multiple comp shelf failures or a STEP1 failure. At that stage, feel free to say "move on." I am nowhere near that.

The only other problems with my plan are that I don't know what the future outlook is going to look like. I've been hearing since 2011 that the match is going to get tougher and tougher for IMG's but even the 2017 match did not look terrible. So that's something I will have to research further. I don't see a school like SGU going anywhere in the near future so that is why I will focus on that route.

Are the odds against me? Absolutely, but you can't live your life fearing failure. At least when it comes down to your career.

 

[aformerstudent]

I'm a matched fourth year medical student basically just waiting to graduate, so I don't have any exams.

People generally don't recover in your situation. That's why everyone has said to let it go. Of course it's ultimately your decision but you asked our opinions. You got them. Be an adult and deal with it.

Dude I can hear your condescending tone through my screen. Enjoy your break. When July 1st comes, try and be a little more humble.

 

[sloop]

Dude I can hear your condescending tone through my screen. Enjoy your break. When July 1st comes, try and be a little more humble.

I'm so sorry. I had forgotten about how you were the paragon of humility in this thread.

 

[Crayola227]

Dude I can hear your condescending tone through my screen. Enjoy your break. When July 1st comes, try and be a little more humble.

receiving a reality check is not the same as being condescended to.

as stated, if you think being told the truth with no window dressing is condescension, and that upsets you, you may find a career in medicine difficult.

my mom calls it the "war mentality." You are trying to join a group with a mission that it takes as seriously as the military. No one will coddle you, and that is with reason. We have to stay sharp because we are at war with disease and lives are on the line.

Whining because you've failed at many turns, well surely you can understand why either is raising our ire. Both are against our culture.

Anything less than excellence is unacceptable. I'm very sorry, but you've demonstrated a pattern that is not excellence. Second, we expect excellence no matter what. No excuses. The one B on your transcript when your mom died? Admirable. The F? Perhaps understandable. But what is your pattern? The pattern needs to be good grades over the long haul, even if you're dealing with ___, ____, _____ over the years.

You are not describing to me someone who takes intensive science courses and their brain acts like a sort of sponge for it, and that you're sharp at then applying it. Many people want to be physicians that simply don't possess the aptitude or skillset.

So I'm just explaining why you're getting some tough love in the the thread, the culture, the expectations. I'm not saying you don't fit the above, I'm just saying what's true.
What I want to know::

Why did you fail before, and what is so different now?
I don't want to hear why YOU WANT to be a doctor, tell me what would make you an excellent physician?
What do you have to offer quite specificially to the profession, and to patients?
What makes you suited for the role?

So far, it's a no go to many of us, without knowing the above, just based off of academic track record. Applying yourself and learning is something you must maintain excellence in for the entire life of your career

 

[Crayola227]

Lastly, and I am very sorry for this, when it comes to Matching, there are a number of filters that ERAS has. One question asked is how many medical schools you have attended, and grades.

Many students have far less red flags than you do, and get filtered out automatically. No one sees their app, a cold hard computer setting puts in the digital trash bin before anyone can give any ****s about it.

In my mind, the only reason to continue in the face of this insanity, is because despite everything I have said, you really were born to be a physician and have what it takes. And so far, it's not looking so good, because part of what it takes is not flunking out of med school the first time, when your first admission to med school, the Carribbean, already made this an almost impossible venture. That was already your one long shot.

You will be looked at so harshly, because every medical student treats their one and only matriculation as their precious one and only chance to achieve a dream 1/100 applicants get, that much of their adult life has worked towards. Most of them treat it as the single most important thing in their lives that they can't afford to **** up. AS a result, almost none of the MD/DOs fail, because the admin have selected folk they think can bring their A not just the first time but always and forever.

Why didn't you take your one and only shot more seriously? That would be the question on the mind of any PD that even saw your app assuming you made it past the filters. Even the Carrib diploma mills don't see you as a good gamble. Why would a PD? Do you have the compelling sort of story I may have described?

I'm very sorry that you screwed up at the Carrib school the first time, that you went and retook all your courses, and presumably did well, and that for the most part, you still don't look like a good candidate. Maybe you are, but you don't look it. And you only have you to blame for that. You're not going to convince many people, otherwise.

 

[sloop]

To echo what @Crayola227 just said a bit: your patients won't care how much you want to be a doctor if you can't actually perform well as a doctor. This is an elite profession and a lot of people can't cut it. To a lot of people, saying that would be seen as condescending. So be it. It's the honest truth.

People who have been in medicine have seen the patterns of people who probably just don't have what it takes, and yours is such a pattern. This doesn't at all mean you won't be great at something else (assuming that you learn to take honest feedback and advice better). It just probably won't be medicine.