Need input on hospitalist contract

[levelofcare]

Hello everyone, need your opinion about this. I got an offer as hospitalist in a small town hospital, they offered around 285 yearly, 3 yrs contract, around 100k loan forgivable for 4 yrs, 10k relocation, 7 on and off working days, up to 10k annual bonus, and another extra yearly incentive bonus up to 10k yearly. I have not signed the contract yet but it’s really good offer, however, they have in their contract that if before 3 yrs and I want to leave, I will need to pay for liquidated damages worth 3 months of salary and on top of that I will also pay the remaining of the loan. So that’s I what I’m are concerned of, I love the area and want to settle with my family, I just don’t feel comfortable with the liquidated damages thing. Any advice? Anyone of you have this in your contracts? Thank you.

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[CCM-MD]

Is this a J1 waiver job? I believe some of those are required to have that type of clause.

 

[levelofcare]

Is this a J1 waiver job? I believe some of those are required to have that type of clause.

Not a J1 job. No visa sponsorship is required.

 

[DrMetal]

Hello everyone, need your opinion about this. I got an offer as hospitalist in a small town hospital, they offered around 285 yearly, 3 yrs contract, around 100k loan forgivable for 4 yrs, 10k relocation, 7 on and off working days, up to 10k annual bonus, and another extra yearly incentive bonus up to 10k yearly. I have not signed the contract yet but it’s really good offer, however, they have in their contract that if before 3 yrs and I want to leave, I will need to pay for liquidated damages worth 3 months of salary and on top of that I will also pay the remaining of the loan. So that’s I what I’m are concerned of, I love the area and want to settle with my family, I just don’t feel comfortable with the liquidated damages thing. Any advice? Anyone of you have this in your contracts? Thank you.

Sounds pretty good and fair. 3 years is fairly short, I think, unless the place is a total shtshow. If you like the area and want to settle, all the better.
Actually, 285K is pretty good, on the higher end of things consider the dismal hospitalist market. Am curious, what part of the country?

 

[anonperson]

Hello everyone, need your opinion about this. I got an offer as hospitalist in a small town hospital, they offered around 285 yearly, 3 yrs contract, around 100k loan forgivable for 4 yrs, 10k relocation, 7 on and off working days, up to 10k annual bonus, and another extra yearly incentive bonus up to 10k yearly. I have not signed the contract yet but it’s really good offer, however, they have in their contract that if before 3 yrs and I want to leave, I will need to pay for liquidated damages worth 3 months of salary and on top of that I will also pay the remaining of the loan. So that’s I what I’m are concerned of, I love the area and want to settle with my family, I just don’t feel comfortable with the liquidated damages thing. Any advice? Anyone of you have this in your contracts? Thank you.

So if you want to quit, you have to pay $71250 ? (Monthly salary x 3).

That's nuts.

Most contracts require anywhere from 60 to 90 days notice but not actually paying anything out.

Who covers your tail if you leave?

 

[levelofcare]

Sounds pretty good and fair. 3 years is fairly short, I think, unless the place is a total shtshow. If you like the area and want to settle, all the better.
Actually, 285K is pretty good, on the higher end of things consider the dismal hospitalist market. Am curious, what part of the country?

Midwest location. Wondering how common it is to have liquidated damage clause.

 

[levelofcare]

So if you want to quit, you have to pay $71250 ? (Monthly salary x 3).

That's nuts.

Most contracts require anywhere from 60 to 90 days notice but not actually paying anything out.

Who covers your tail if you leave?

Seems like it. Plus paying back remaining if loan + interest! This is is understood. But it seems paying back 3 months salary was intended to replace non compete clause. I learned non compete clause is against the law now!
They provide tail coverage.

 

[anonperson]

Seems like it. Plus paying back remaining if loan + interest! This is is understood. But it seems paying back 3 months salary was intended to replace non compete clause. I learned non compete clause is against the law now!
They provide tail coverage.

Paying a 3 month penalty is ridiculous. I haven't heard of that before.

$70k to quit a job is not reasonable.

The other issue is with the loan payback.

Are they cutting you a check for $100k that is forgiven in time increments?

If so, I believe you are paying taxes on that $100k when you first get it. If they expect full repayment back, you will not be breaking even but in the negative due to the taxes you paid.

 

[rokshana]

Hello everyone, need your opinion about this. I got an offer as hospitalist in a small town hospital, they offered around 285 yearly, 3 yrs contract, around 100k loan forgivable for 4 yrs, 10k relocation, 7 on and off working days, up to 10k annual bonus, and another extra yearly incentive bonus up to 10k yearly. I have not signed the contract yet but it’s really good offer, however, they have in their contract that if before 3 yrs and I want to leave, I will need to pay for liquidated damages worth 3 months of salary and on top of that I will also pay the remaining of the loan. So that’s I what I’m are concerned of, I love the area and want to settle with my family, I just don’t feel comfortable with the liquidated damages thing. Any advice? Anyone of you have this in your contracts? Thank you.

Sounds like a pretty decent offer… ask to see if they will take out the liquidated damages clause.
Paying back the loan is not unusual, but could ask for it to be for it to be distributed in yearly amounts for the 3 years and and would have to payback the remaining portion of you leave early.

 

[levelofcare]

Paying a 3 month penalty is ridiculous. I haven't heard of that before.

$70k to quit a job is not reasonable.

The other issue is with the loan payback.

Are they cutting you a check for $100k that is forgiven in time increments?

If so, I believe you are paying taxes on that $100k when you first get it. If they expect full repayment back, you will not be breaking even but in the negative due to the taxes you paid.

It is not reasonable, although being justified with removal of non compete clause and the expenses of hiring a physician!

For the loan it seems that half is given on signing and the other half on first paycheck. This is supposed to be a “loan” it is non taxable from my understanding. The forgiven monthly payments are taxable. I will verify the double taxation.

 

[DrMetal]

It is not reasonable, although being justified with removal of non compete clause and the expenses of hiring a physician!

For the loan it seems that half is given on signing and the other half on first paycheck. This is supposed to be a “loan” it is non taxable from my understanding. The forgiven monthly payments are taxable. I will verify the double taxation.

It's good man. The hospital is trying to watch out for themselves too, I can't blame em. I'd only hesitate if you didn't like the geography, or if the place was a total shtshow. (the problem with the latter aspect, is you never know until you're in the thick of it). Three or 4 years is reasonable, you can quit and move on after that if you don't like it.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I was about to ask if this is some sort of weird way to penalize the leaving doc outside of a non-compete.

I’m guessing either your state doesn’t allow them or the hospital thinks they will be gone legislatively in the future and this is their hedge.

I would counter that if they fire you or don’t renew your contract then they owe you 6 months of damages while you find a new job.

 

[anonperson]

It is not reasonable, although being justified with removal of non compete clause and the expenses of hiring a physician!

California does not allow any non compete clauses and I have never seen a payback clause like that in any of my contracts.

The only time I have seen a damages clause is if you leave without giving the agreed upon minimum notice.

I am willing to bet the CFO, CEO, various army of useless VPs these hospitals have don't have any damages clause.

I think that part of your contract is bogus and would do everything I can to get it removed. They may stand firm and refuse to budge.

How much is it worth to you?

Just know that if the job ends up sucking or you want to do something else after a year or two, that's a $70k penalty, which is a lot of money.

 

[Gastrapathy]

That clause means they can do anything to you and you’ll probably decide to stay. Totally unreasonable. Also, the loan repayment needs to line up w the contract.

 

[scoopdaboop]

how is 285 yearly after bonuses and whatever maybe making 315 in a small midwest town good?

 

[levelofcare]

I was about to ask if this is some sort of weird way to penalize the leaving doc outside of a non-compete.

I’m guessing either your state doesn’t allow them or the hospital thinks they will be gone legislatively in the future and this is their hedge.

I would counter that if they fire you or don’t renew your contract then they owe you 6 months of damages while you find a new job.

If leaving outpatient practice in large desirable and warm city (big city didn’t fit our style) to work as a hospitalist in a small Midwestern town enough reason for them to think I will leave within 3 years, then they are very sensitive!

 

[levelofcare]

California does not allow any non compete clauses and I have never seen a payback clause like that in any of my contracts.

The only time I have seen a damages clause is if you leave without giving the agreed upon minimum notice.

I am willing to bet the CFO, CEO, various army of useless VPs these hospitals have don't have any damages clause.

I think that part of your contract is bogus and would do everything I can to get it removed. They may stand firm and refuse to budge.

How much is it worth to you?

Just know that if the job ends up sucking or you want to do something else after a year or two, that's a $70k penalty, which is a lot of money.

Yeah I know that part is bogus. I’m not sure if it is legal. they could increase the notice time required from 90 to 180 days without financial penalty for a solution!

 

[levelofcare]

That clause means they can do anything to you and you’ll probably decide to stay. Totally unreasonable. Also, the loan repayment needs to line up w the contract.

Another point here, I asked for that and the reply was that loan amount will be slashed in half if it were to match the term length

 

[levelofcare]

how is 285 yearly after bonuses and whatever maybe making 315 in a small midwest town good?

This is my first hospiatalist offer. The small town part is fine. Not sure if the pay is on par. Translates to about 148 an hour

 

[DrMetal]

how is 285 yearly after bonuses and whatever maybe making 315 in a small midwest town good?

I hate to say it, but that's a pretty good offer today, given the climate. In California, we're now seeing offers as low ball as $220-$230K (I know I know, it's Cali).

Sad truth is with the influx of NPs/PAs into the market, here shortly (I give it no more than 10 years) we'll see offers dip down <$200K (already happening in some parts). And this is exactly what the industry wants.

So if you're good with the location, in the words of Steve Miller, "go on and take the money and run"!

 

[collegestud2013]

This is my first hospiatalist offer. The small town part is fine. Not sure if the pay is on par. Translates to about 148 an hour

Pay is a bit low for a small town, especially if it's in a less desirable area. What's the census like? Might be reasonable if the census is on the low side and you can finish early on most days. Keep in mind the census that they tell you when recruiting is often inaccurate (and sometimes even hospitals themselves can't accurately predict the future patient volumes/census). And what are the $10k bonuses based on? If it's a quality bonus keep in mind that some places write them so it's nearly impossible to meet (and they're often metrics averaged from the whole group and not just individually so you may not have much control over how much you get). Ideally there should also be a decent RVU bonus so if the census gets high you at least get compensated somewhat for your extra work.

Agreed that $71k to quit a job is pretty unreasonable. Would probably be a dealbreaker for me if it can't be removed.

And agreed that the loan repayment should be prorated to match your contract term length if you leave early (usually on a monthly basis).

Non-compete clauses are non-enforceable in California (though some employers will put them in anyways to scare the employees into not leaving).

 

[Residentdoc86]

Contracts like these really bother me.

I know someone who had a similar deal, they took it and were miserable for 3 years. If you don't mind small-town living, doing more night shifts, working more than 7 days on, doing ICU admissions, running their own RRT, and seeing more patients than your cap then take the money. Just understand what you are getting into.

OP also mentions leaving outpatient practice for hospital medicine. Not sure how long it's been since residency but it might take you a little bit to get back in the swing of things.

 

[levelofcare]

Pay is a bit low for a small town, especially if it's in a less desirable area. What's the census like? Might be reasonable if the census is on the low side and you can finish early on most days. Keep in mind the census that they tell you when recruiting is often inaccurate (and sometimes even hospitals themselves can't accurately predict the future census). And what are the $10k bonuses based on? If it's a quality bonus keep in mind that some places write them so it's nearly impossible to meet (and they're often metrics averaged from the whole group and not just individually so you may not have much control over team). Ideally there should also be a decent RVU bonus so if the census gets high you at least get compensated somewhat for your extra work.

Agreed that $71k to quit a job is pretty unreasonable. Would probably be a dealbreaker for me if it can't be removed.

And agreed that the loan repayment should be prorated to match your contract term length if you leave early (usually on a monthly basis).

Non-compete clauses are non-enforceable in California (though some employers will put them in anyways to scare the employees into not leaving).

Census is 15 on average
Didn’t get a chance to talk about the quality bonus as I had bigger fish to fry.
No RVU bonus structure, but additional shifts paid hourly rate + 20 dollars per hour.
When I talked about the loan matching contract length, the amount was cut almost half.

 

[levelofcare]

Contracts like these really bother me.

I know someone who had a similar deal, they took it and were miserable for 3 years. If you don't mind small-town living, doing more night shifts, working more than 7 days on, doing ICU admissions, running their own RRT, and seeing more patients than your cap then take the money. Just understand what you are getting into.

OP also mentions leaving outpatient practice for hospital medicine. Not sure how long it's been since residency but it might take you a little bit to get back in the swing of things.

Yes. Miserable for 3 years potentially 4 is the scary part.

Not too long out of residency, finished last year.

 

[stayinalive]

While I am not a hospitalist, I have many friends who are. The payback is ridiculous. I have never heard anyone have such a payback. As poster above mentioned, I can garauntee no one in management has a payback provision and in fact they likely have a severance provision.

Please please please keep in mind that this is your first job and switching out of one's first job after a 1-2 yrs remains quite common. There are many reasons for this. 3 years seems short, but can be an eternity if its a bad gig. Also be aware of your own blind spots...this is your first job. You are not a seasoned hospitalist who has worked many jobs and has a experience evaluating a position and more importantly sniffing out BS beforehand. (even seasoned docs fail to sometimes see the pifalls).

I really do no want to come on here and read a sad story 1.5 years from now. The payback clause should be a deal-breaker.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[chessknt]

Employer sounds predatory between the unreal punitive clause for quitting (can't believe this could ever be enforced, that is like indentured ****ing servitude) and the loan payback provision being killed when you asked for it to match the contract term. Move on--stop trying to contort to make it work unless you have a strict geographic anchor to this area.

 

[collegestud2013]

Census is 15 on average
Didn’t get a chance to talk about the quality bonus as I had bigger fish to fry.
No RVU bonus structure, but additional shifts paid hourly rate + 20 dollars per hour.
When I talked about the loan matching contract length, the amount was cut almost half.

If the average census of 15 is based on what the recruiter told you verbally, I would take it with a grain of salt (and at least try to talk with the current hospitalists there to see if that's accurate) The census can fluctuate significantly at any hospital due to a variety of factors. And if there's no hard cap written into your contract and no RVU bonus either, you could get stuck seeing a lot more patients without any extra pay.

Though if that's really the average census, that's on the lighter side these days for a 12-hr shift (assuming all 15 are rounding patients only and you're not admitting on the same shift) and your pay would actually be pretty good for those volumes. It can still be a lot work if you're at a small hospital without much sub-specialty support and nearly all the work-up and management falls on the hospitalist.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The loan forgiveness is pretty standard. They give you a big chunk of change to pay off some of your loans. They loan it back to you, so there is no tax event. Basically, you're transferring the loan from your loan servicer to them. They then give you a no-interest loan, and they forgive some percentage of the loan every paycheck / month / year. When they forgive parts of the loan, then that becomes taxable to you. If you leave the place before you finish getting the whole thing forgiven, it's still "a loan" and you need to pay it back. Usually they add on some reasonable interest rate. This is a reasonable process. Don't cut the term of repayment and decrease the amount -- that's pointless. If you left at 3 years with the current terms you'd owe $25K to them instead of to your current loans, if they decrease the amount to $50K and you leave at 3 years you'd be behind by $25K.

The "damages" part is crazy. I've never seen that before in any of my grad's contracts. There should be no damages, and even if there was it should prorate over time. Depends on how much you like this offer and how much you want to play hardball. I'd only accept one month, or prorate it so it's 3 months in the first year, 2 in the second, and 1 in the third. But honestly I'd demand they remove it completely, and tell them that I'm disappointed and will be looking at other offers.

 

[levelofcare]

Thank you for the helpful input everyone!

By the way how bad is Meditech?

 

[scoopdaboop]

Thank you for the helpful input everyone!

By the way how bad is Meditech?

looks depressing, works fine.

 

[DrSnips]

The "damages" part is crazy.

Yeah second that. I looked through several contracts before taking my current job. A few had those forgivable loans (one of them was like a 7 year forgivable loan which I thought was a bit nuts, but it was prorated at least). None of them had a penalty clause for leaving early. I do wonder if people have tried to get out of paying that penalty by getting themselves fired instead of quitting. In any case, I wouldn't sign such a contract.

 

[Splenda88]

Sounds pretty good and fair. 3 years is fairly short, I think, unless the place is a total shtshow. If you like the area and want to settle, all the better.
Actually, 285K is pretty good, on the higher end of things consider the dismal hospitalist market. Am curious, what part of the country?

That is about average for a smalll town. I have seen above 300k.

 

[Splenda88]

how is 285 yearly after bonuses and whatever maybe making 315 in a small midwest town good?

It's not good. People are making 280k in decent size city. Heck, I am making more 315k in small city that is in a desirable part of the county. (average encounters is 18;17 pts plus 1 admit).

That contract is HORRIBLE...

 

[rokshana]

Thank you for the helpful input everyone!

By the way how bad is Meditech?

Not the worst out there…that would be allscripts *shutter*…the windows version is actually pretty decent and with dragon, pretty efficient.

 

[DrMetal]

Heck, I am making more 315k in small city that is in a desirable part of the county. (average encounters is 18;17 pts plus 1 admit).

In what prison system are you working in? Sign me up.

The only general IM hospitalists I know making >$300K are those picking up extra shifts and/or carrying a census of 20+, in some very compromising situations. I don't know of any making that much money working normal schedules/censuses. Maybe I need to get more friends.

The OPs contract isn't great, some of the stuff in it is scary and intimidating. But again, give the climate, given where we're heading, $285K in a community you'd like to live in with loan payment options is pretty decent, IMO.

It's gonna get much worse in the coming years, that I can promise you.

 

[Splenda88]

In what prison system are you working in? Sign me up.

The only general IM hospitalists I know making >$300K are those picking up extra shifts and/or carrying a census of 20+, in some very compromising situations. I don't know of any making that much money working normal schedules/censuses. Maybe I need to get more friends.

The OPs contract isn't great, some of the stuff in it is scary and intimidating. But again, give the climate, given where we're heading, $285K in a community you'd like to live in with loan payment options is pretty decent, IMO.

It's gonna get much worse in the coming years, that I can promise you.

Lol. ~300 bed hospital in the southeast. Average census 17.5 plus 1 admit. The OP contract should be a non starter for any hospitalist given the location.

 

[DrMetal]

I'm sadly reminded of our EM colleagues, many of whom swore (not less than 10 years ago) that they'd all forever make $300/hr or $500k/year, even if working in non-trauma centers and seeing only low acuity colds/sniffles. As soon as that mid-level faucet was turned on, the flooding began and those salaries dropped (if the EM physician job wasn't eliminated entirely).

I'm a cheerful guy, I know.

But hey, prove me wrong. This is a debate I'd love to lose.

 

[Splenda88]

I'm sadly reminded of our EM colleagues, many of whom swore (not less than 10 years ago) that they'd all forever make $300/hr or $500k/year, even if working in non-trauma centers and seeing only low acuity colds/sniffles. As soon as that mid-level faucet was turned on, the flooding began and those salaries dropped (if the EM physician job wasn't eliminated entirely).

I'm a cheerful guy, I know.

But hey, prove me wrong. This is a debate I'd love to lose.

I agree that most non surgical physicians should be expected to make a lot less in 10 yrs.

I have a semi decent gig right now and I am going to take advantage of that; hoping to be in a good financial position in 5 yrs.

 

[AshNiffler]

While I am not a hospitalist, I have many friends who are. The payback is ridiculous. I have never heard anyone have such a payback. As poster above mentioned, I can garauntee no one in management has a payback provision and in fact they likely have a severance provision.

Please please please keep in mind that this is your first job and switching out of one's first job after a 1-2 yrs remains quite common. There are many reasons for this. 3 years seems short, but can be an eternity if its a bad gig. Also be aware of your own blind spots...this is your first job. You are not a seasoned hospitalist who has worked many jobs and has a experience evaluating a position and more importantly sniffing out BS beforehand. (even seasoned docs fail to sometimes see the pifalls).

I really do no want to come on here and read a sad story 1.5 years from now. The payback clause should be a deal-breaker.

Just my 2 cents.

This! I’m in this exact same situation, job sounded great on paper so I didn’t think too much about the liquidated damages ($250k) when I signed. Now I badly need to leave less than a year…so now I have to deal with that.

 

[chessknt]

I'm sadly reminded of our EM colleagues, many of whom swore (not less than 10 years ago) that they'd all forever make $300/hr or $500k/year, even if working in non-trauma centers and seeing only low acuity colds/sniffles. As soon as that mid-level faucet was turned on, the flooding began and those salaries dropped (if the EM physician job wasn't eliminated entirely).

I'm a cheerful guy, I know.

But hey, prove me wrong. This is a debate I'd love to lose.

The em people where I live make more than Ortho their market is fine.

 

[levelofcare]

I got a lawyer to look at it. He agrees with most everything that was said here, but they (employer) won’t change anything! They know it is unfair and a penalty to a leaving physician.

They state the most common contract negotiation line -if we change this for you we will have to change it for hundreds of physicians working for us-

I am not buying this!

 

[anonperson]

I got a lawyer to look at it. He agrees with most everything that was said here, but they (employer) won’t change anything! They know it is unfair and a penalty to a leaving physician.

They state the most common contract negotiation line -if we change this for you we will have to change it for hundreds of physicians working for us-

I am not buying this!

Typical administration BS.

The penalty is way too high for leaving. It would be one thing if you were making $600k, but not at the current rate.

 

[Elixir6]

Just signed for my first job, so not speaking from a lot of experience here, but the loan aspect seems right. They are factoring the cost of paying off the loan over the life of a 3 year contract.

However, the liquidation seems unreasonable to me. My contract says I need to give 90 days notice to quit, but that if I give less than 90 days, then there is this type of clause where I owe ~$1000/day for each day less than 90 days (plus part of my sign on bonus which is rather small actually). The paying if giving less than 90 days seems reasonable to me, since they may have to hire a locums or do something creative to fill the hole left in the outpatient/inpatient/call schedules. What you are describing does not.

Also, I am going into GI, and as a fellow I am moonlighting at a VA in the Northeast in a very desirable area. I make $1,700 gross for a 12 hour hospitalist shift (whether day or night, and during the day I don't do any admissions). If I extrapolate that to 7 on/off for a year less 4 weeks of vacation it would be the same salary you are describing, and yet I see or admit very few patients a shift (although one rounding or admitting patient at the VA is like two elsewhere because the VA system is so painfully slow and crappy). So your salary doesn't sound great to me, particularly if the census cap is not hard and you have to do a lot of day admissions, or do a lot of weeks of nights.

Also if the loan is paid by them over 4 years, but your contract is for 3 year (that's what I gather from your post) then they are trying to dangle something to get you to sign onto another contract. At least negotiate the loan is paid off in 3 years.

My two naïve cents

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I got a lawyer to look at it. He agrees with most everything that was said here, but they (employer) won’t change anything! They know it is unfair and a penalty to a leaving physician.

They state the most common contract negotiation line -if we change this for you we will have to change it for hundreds of physicians working for us-

I am not buying this!

The idea above - 90 day notice, financial penalty for less - is very reasonable.

If you're not buying it, and they won't budge, then there's only one solution. Decline the position. Tell them you'll take it immediately if they remove the damages part or change it to whatever you think is a reasonable compromise.

If you're not willing to let this position go, then you're stuck with it.

 

[DrMetal]

The em people where I live make more than Ortho their market is fine.

No way. A general EM working shifts in a ER? I don't believe it, unless they're working a lot. Or, If they're fellowship trained (US, EMS, bla bla) and/or doing something on the side (like running a ketamine clinic), then maybe.

 

[levelofcare]

The idea above - 90 day notice, financial penalty for less - is very reasonable.

If you're not buying it, and they won't budge, then there's only one solution. Decline the position. Tell them you'll take it immediately if they remove the damages part or change it to whatever you think is a reasonable compromise.

If you're not willing to let this position go, then you're stuck with it.

I declined it. I tried for a compromise, used many ideas from here I even said 6 months notice instead of 3. Hard no.

They said try it with a locum assignment, if you think like it agree to the clause in the full time contract!

The search continues

 

[rokshana]

I declined it. I tried for a compromise, used many ideas from here I even said 6 months notice instead of 3. Hard no.

They said try it with a locum assignment, if you think like it agree to the clause in the full time contract!

The search continues

Lol… if they are willing to hire you locums, they are desperate … give them your terms, and look for another position elsewhere… will keep you working and and no gaps… if they end up wanting you to stay… then you can we negotiate to what you want and not them…

They are hoping that if you start there, you won’t want to leave… it can be the other way around…

And as locums, make sure they pay for everything… travel, accommodations, gas, med mal, licenses, and credentialing…I work locums…locums, especially through a company, is expensive for a facility…most place avoid it if they can.

 

[chessknt]

No way. A general EM working shifts in a ER? I don't believe it, unless they're working a lot. Or, If they're fellowship trained (US, EMS, bla bla) and/or doing something on the side (like running a ketamine clinic), then maybe.

They are very busy and are a doc owned private practice. They clear at least 700 a year working 12-14 a month. Idk man a great strategy to gut your supply is spell doom. Look how great anesthesia is now.

 

[SOCalXtine]

I hate to say it, but that's a pretty good offer today, given the climate. In California, we're now seeing offers as low ball as $220-$230K (I know I know, it's Cali).

Sad truth is with the influx of NPs/PAs into the market, here shortly (I give it no more than 10 years) we'll see offers dip down <$200K (already happening in some parts). And this is exactly what the industry wants.

So if you're good with the location, in the words of Steve Miller, "go on and take the money and run"

What about doing locums in the Inland empire or working there how much does a hospitalist make I’m willing to work out in riverside etc

 

[anonperson]

I declined it. I tried for a compromise, used many ideas from here I even said 6 months notice instead of 3. Hard no.

They said try it with a locum assignment, if you think like it agree to the clause in the full time contract!

The search continues

So they would rather have you on as a locums and pay through the nose for that. Plus, as a locums, you could do whatever length you want with no financial penalty.

Is this correct?

The stupidity of hospital administration in full effect.