Need long-term "Plan B" advice! Thanks.

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medworm

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Here we go again :) -- this is a serious proposition and I really could use some solid advice. :confused: I'm not speculating on how best to tackle my med school apps or chart my premed strategy, I've got that down with SDN forums thank you!. But I could use suggestions for the longer career horizon.

Here's my story:

I'm in my late 20s, female, unmarried, career changer, started my prereqs last Fall, applying for 2006 so I rushed to take the April MCAT (did ok with 9s on every section), and done with secondaries. Retook in August, didn't break 30, VR 8, PS 10, BS 10 (28R). I was surprised that my VR was so low, but can't do anything about it now. I applied w/ April scores but no interviews yet. I am absolutely not going to retake the MCAT. I feel that I've expended enough energy towards the whole process and don't want to hold off life to be a reapplicant. With such low scores, 3.5 GPA, and mediocre CV of just volunteering and work experience, I need to devise a plan B that is also viable long-term solution. I'm currently unemployed, and having trouble landing a job b/c of this glide year hiatus. Although I have solid work experience in business development and project management, healthcare companies aren't interested in me b/c of the prospect of leaving for med school (a long shot if you ask me) and that my prior exp. is unrelated to healthcare. I totally understand where the employer's coming from, b/c I've been a boss before. Even if I do land a f/t job in healthcare, it would be entry-level (lower salary) and will set my career back.

So #1: I can more easily land a non-healthcare position. Should I concentrate my job-seeking efforts towards that or the entry-level healthcare position? How much should I compromise, salary-wise and responsibility wise? #2: If med school doesn't pan out, I still need to get a Masters degree for the long-term. This will be my last degree, I won't try to switch back to medicine. MPH is a good alternative. With that, I could find mgmt work in healthcare, and that would be the end of story. The question: is an MPH enough to secure a viable career path involving management, where I can make $100K in 3-5 years? Or do I need other accreditation as well? What kind of jobs can I get with other Masters degrees, i.e. MSc and DSc? I don't know of the options, please advise.

Ok, back to the MPH. I would need to take the GRE asap to apply for MPH schools for 2006. #3: Is 2 months enough time to study for the GRE? (All this standardized testing and application process is exhausting.) I'm not sure how to obtain LORs or even what my statement of intent would be, but I have about 2 months before apps are due. Any advice on how to tackle MPH application would be appreciated. Also, if med school falls through this year, I would like to relocate next year to either Washington state, Oregon, or Georgia to settle down, buy a house, move on with my life -- any advice on the MPH school and job options in those areas would be great!

Thanks for listening and playing guidance counselor! :)

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Your questions are sort of answerable, but from the tone of your post, I feel like you're getting a little panicked or frayed. Calm down a bit and stay the course for now; there's still a great chance that you'll get some interviews this cycle. :) But on to your questions....

1: no way to answer. You've got to make that choice for yourself. I believed that the salary was less important than the work, or I wouldn't have quit my job to go back to school; therefore, I took an entry level job that pays me 1/3 to 1/2 my old consulting salary. You may not make the same value judgement.

2: Any degree is enough to get the kind of job you describe, depending on your background. But I suppose an MPH might help.

3: I think so. The GRE is really basic stuff -- look it up online somewhere.
 
Options for Plan B:

1. Given that relocation seems to be a possibility - you could look at allopathic medical schools in the Carribean, Australia or Ireland - all viable options where your 28R MCAT and GPA would be competitive.

2. DO school - once again, your stats would be competitive.

3. If management is your preferred non-medicine theme, then perhaps consider an MBA instead of an MPH. Several good MBA programs offer MBA's with healthcare management specialties that would provide an education in both management/decision-making and public health. Also, with an MBA, you don't necessarily lock yourself into public health should you decide to diversify into other industries down the line.

Good luck!
 
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Thanks for the advice so far.

I guess I'm just reluctant to literally throw away a couple of years jumping through hoops just to get into medicine. I feel just strongly about medicine as anyone else, but what's the point of spending 6 years to get a 4 year education? It's funny how premeds are like pilgrims to Mecca or the ancient Olympics. IMHO, there are a lot of unrealistic premeds. Anyway---

An MBA would be redundant to my managerial experience. In fact, applications for B-school are down and graduates are having a lot of trouble finding jobs. It's just not as attractive a degree as it used to be. What I actually need is a program is teaches the fundamental aspects, practices, and regulations of the healthcare, biotech, or related field. Honestly, if you look for a job in healthcare, you have to build several years of time equity with the industry before you can actually be of any use. High barriers to entry, as they would call it in B-school. :laugh:

If anyone can discuss the various Master's degrees option, please post. Thanks!
 
You know, a lot of premeds have this "med school or bust" mentality. There are, however, a variety of other career options that requires a similar undergraduate preparation that so many people overlook.

1) Podiatry - this field is really hurting for qualified candidates right now, and your stats would put you in prime position for a spot in podiatry school. In most states, this would give you the ability to handle both medical and surgical treatment of the foot and ankle. It really is a parallel path to allopathic schools, and the clinical rotations are often alongside the MD students.

2) Chiropractic - I have found chiropractors to be some of the happiest people I've ever met with their careers. It's a way to own your own business, provide health care and wellness support to people, and maintain a good lifestyle.

3) Optometry - the first line of defense with vision care - most people don't ever see an opthamologist anymore. Optometrists identify disease, treat infections, and do a lot more that people don't ever think of.

4) Pharmacy - if you're really interested in making a lot of money, this is the way to go. DPharms have been pulling in the cash, and the trend does not look like it's going away anytime soon. This route may have more prereqs, though - I'm not fully aware of the requirements.

All of this is in addition to dentistry, osteopathy, and the foreign school options. There are tons of options if your desire is to treat patients. Ask yourself why you really wanted to go to med school in the first place, and your answer about what you should be doing probably lies there.

And if you decide on the MPH route, there are some schools (I believe Northwestern is one of them, but don't quote me on that) that will take MCATs in lieu of GREs.



medworm said:
Thanks for the advice so far.

I guess I'm just reluctant to literally throw away a couple of years jumping through hoops just to get into medicine. I feel just strongly about medicine as anyone else, but what's the point of spending 6 years to get a 4 year education? It's funny how premeds are like pilgrims to Mecca or the ancient Olympics. IMHO, there are a lot of unrealistic premeds. Anyway---

An MBA would be redundant to my managerial experience. In fact, applications for B-school are down and graduates are having a lot of trouble finding jobs. It's just not as attractive a degree as it used to be. What I actually need is a program is teaches the fundamental aspects, practices, and regulations of the healthcare, biotech, or related field. Honestly, if you look for a job in healthcare, you have to build several years of time equity with the industry before you can actually be of any use. High barriers to entry, as they would call it in B-school. :laugh:

If anyone can discuss the various Master's degrees option, please post. Thanks!
 
Some schools let you take MPH for free while in school. Nova Southeastern University osteopathic program.
 
It seems as if you are going through the same emotions that many of us degree-holding nontrads are experiencing. You've worked to get to a certain point in your career, and you are reluctant to start over for something that is not guaranteed. These are completely valid feelings.
Truthfully, you may just have to 'bite the bullet' on this one. You have switched careers - just like many people in the .com fields - and are starting from the bottom up. You - in my opinion - have to show adcoms that you are dedicated to medicine and really want to be here. Although you have great experience in business, that doesn't move you up the medicine ladder automatically.
I would suggest finding an entry-level healthcare job (phlebotomy, ER tech, EMT, etc.), and accept the paycut. I would also give this med school acceptance process 110%. If, after the first/second application cycle, you are not successful, reevaluate your goals. This way, you can put ALL of your energy into one thing at a time, instead of spliting half of your energy in two directions. Just my two cents. Good luck on your journey!

CrazyPremed
 
I've thought about homeopathic medicine, or perhaps Ayurvedic for "plan B". I think "Traditional Chinese Medicine" has lost some good qualities, due to the maoists deeming them to be unproper for the communist mood.

Is there a website similar to this, where students can discuss reputable schools of the alternative medicine variety?
 
medworm said:
Here we go again :) -- this is a serious proposition and I really could use some solid advice. :confused: I'm not speculating on how best to tackle my med school apps or chart my premed strategy, I've got that down with SDN forums thank you!. But I could use suggestions for the longer career horizon.

Here's my story:

I'm in my late 20s, female, unmarried, career changer, started my prereqs last Fall, applying for 2006 so I rushed to take the April MCAT (did ok with 9s on every section), and done with secondaries. Retook in August, didn't break 30, VR 8, PS 10, BS 10 (28R). I was surprised that my VR was so low, but can't do anything about it now. I applied w/ April scores but no interviews yet. I am absolutely not going to retake the MCAT. I feel that I've expended enough energy towards the whole process and don't want to hold off life to be a reapplicant. With such low scores, 3.5 GPA, and mediocre CV of just volunteering and work experience, I need to devise a plan B that is also viable long-term solution. I'm currently unemployed, and having trouble landing a job b/c of this glide year hiatus. Although I have solid work experience in business development and project management, healthcare companies aren't interested in me b/c of the prospect of leaving for med school (a long shot if you ask me) and that my prior exp. is unrelated to healthcare. I totally understand where the employer's coming from, b/c I've been a boss before. Even if I do land a f/t job in healthcare, it would be entry-level (lower salary) and will set my career back.

So #1: I can more easily land a non-healthcare position. Should I concentrate my job-seeking efforts towards that or the entry-level healthcare position? How much should I compromise, salary-wise and responsibility wise? #2: If med school doesn't pan out, I still need to get a Masters degree for the long-term. This will be my last degree, I won't try to switch back to medicine. MPH is a good alternative. With that, I could find mgmt work in healthcare, and that would be the end of story. The question: is an MPH enough to secure a viable career path involving management, where I can make $100K in 3-5 years? Or do I need other accreditation as well? What kind of jobs can I get with other Masters degrees, i.e. MSc and DSc? I don't know of the options, please advise.

Ok, back to the MPH. I would need to take the GRE asap to apply for MPH schools for 2006. #3: Is 2 months enough time to study for the GRE? (All this standardized testing and application process is exhausting.) I'm not sure how to obtain LORs or even what my statement of intent would be, but I have about 2 months before apps are due. Any advice on how to tackle MPH application would be appreciated. Also, if med school falls through this year, I would like to relocate next year to either Washington state, Oregon, or Georgia to settle down, buy a house, move on with my life -- any advice on the MPH school and job options in those areas would be great!

Thanks for listening and playing guidance counselor! :)

With a 3.5 and 28 you aren't out of the game yet - hopefully you applied smartly and broadly. An MPH isn't likely going to easilly lead to a $100k job -- there are lots of PhDs in public health that don't make a ton. Frankly, there are not a lot of graduate level paths leading to a six digit income you can follow for which you can avoid taking another major standardized test. Your best bet is to use your MCAT score to go to a non-allo or non-US med school if you don't get into an allo one. However I'd have to say that you are so close in terms of having competitive numbers for allo that it seems strange to me that you would not buckle down, study hard and get the two or three more points you need. You are going to have to study a LOT harder once you get into med school, and once you are in, you are going to think yourself foolish that you were going to shy away from the relatively modest level of studying you will have needed to do for the MCAT. In the greater scheme of things, what's the big deal if it takes you eight years to get to private practice or seven???
 
Stick this round out... (while waiting... use your credentials... to apply to Stanford PA school... and the Carib schools.)

If you don't get into Med School this round... Go to PA school... (16 months at Stanford)... or Carib med school... since you don't sound opposed to moving anyway.

Going to a 16month PA school (Stanford) will allow you to have a Marketable Clinical Medicine Skill set (~ $65k-$115k/yr)... in a relatively short time...
and get a MPH (can be part of the program)...

Going to a 16month PA school (Stanford) will Greatly improve your competiveness...
You will already have a DEA# and license to practice and experience practicing medicine when you go for med school interviews...Clinical Medicine & Step 2 will be a cakewalk in med school... because you will know how to treat 70-80% of common ailments... and know where to look so you can treat the rest... all learned in PA school... Residency will be like going to work... Many PAs that went to med school worked after the first 1.5 year while in med school... 5 12hr shifts/month @ $55/hr + ~$7-$9/patient in urgent care or EM ain't bad $$$... :cool: )...

Going to a 16month PA school (Stanford) will only take 2 years off your end goal (start PA school 9/06-->12/07... done!... work in ANY specialty... LORs from any specialty... ECs don't matter because you have been actually practicing medicine... and shows adcomms that you are serious about medicine)...

There have been occasions where PA-Cs have been admitted to "competitive" programs with 21 MCATs and 3.2 gpas...

OR...

Just go to the carib...


DocNusum
Btw... PA school is basically a condensed MSII--> end of PGY I (no breaks-no vacation!)... without the "hardcore core" sciences of MS I & MS I.5 ... it does not prepare you for step I but step II and FP/IM/Peds/OB-GYN residency has been deemed a "cakewalk" by many MDs who were PAs first.
 
Some MPH programs, and actually some grad programs (in general) may accept MCAT scores. For the most part, a 3.5 GPA is not a low GPA. But how well you did in science vs. non-science courses also matter. An MCAT score of 28 isn't too bad either, but yes the 8 in VR is not too good.

In my opinion, if finding a job and ultimately getting into med school are your goals, then I would highly suggest graduate school in favor over finding another job, or a post-bacc program.

For one, graduate school, most programs pay for your tuition and provide an annual stipend. Where as post-bacc programs do not. Additionally, this allows you to take harder courses, where you can prove yourself again, and provide proof to the adcoms that you did something during the years between applying. One word of warning, MPH programs rarely have any type of fee remission (ie: they don't pay for tuition).
 
I think you need to take a step back and a deep breath. You will have the rest of your life to feel happy about your decision. Or not. All of the degrees mentioned require a large investment of time, money, and energy. I think it would be hard to tackle any of them without feeling that they are truly what you want. You might want to consider talking to a career counselor, or finding some other way of first investing in figuring out what is most important to you.

And by the way, of all of the career options mentioned, med school is the one likely to cost the most as well as the least likely to have you making "100K in 3-5 years". In 3-5 years you would be a resident. If you want to make buckets of money ASAP, go to law school. You won't even have to pretend that you are not in it for the money. But you would have to study for another standardized test.
 
Good plan B
Nurse Anesthetist,

About $140,000 / year
 
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Great suggestions so far. Keep them coming. I really like the (eventual) autonomy of a physician's practice, but as CrazyPreMed mentioned -- hey, I'm getting old and kinda tired to be swinging on monkey ropes.

I don't mind another standardized test like the GRE, but I'm not going to deal with the trials and tribulations of reapplying & glide year again. Hey, Bob Dole lost the presidential election, and although he's probably perfectly qualified, he's not running again b/c he's too old. Know what I mean? For every Bob Dole that made it to the presidential race, there are a million others who have equal aspirations for presidency that found a better fit elsewhere.

I've been considering PA school -- generally they require a year or two of prior clinical paid experience. I'll look into Stanford's requirements.

The audiologist route seems interesting. Is that a job that's got variety on a daily basis?

And anyone who's familiar with Environmental Science, please PM me. Thanks.
 
you're right that glide years are horrible from a career perspective. i'm glad i don't have to do another one.

as for plan b's, why not osteopathic medicine or the caribbean? you'll be a physician either way. sure, ultra competitive specialties like derm will be harder, but if you're like me and just want to be an internist or psychiatrist, it doesn't matter. your numbers are solid for both. personally, i'd go for osteopathic medicine over the caribbean and likely am going to wind up being a do, but i can see why a person would opt to go sgu or ross instead.

i ruled out pa early on because of that strong clinical experience requirement -- sorry, i don't want to quit my job to earn $10/hr working as a cna for a year. my big plan b was occupational therapy -- you get autonomy, job security, and a decent salary. you probably won't see six figures, but you'll still do okay. i never thought about audiology, but that could be very cool, too. i ruled out the rn option early on just because it's so hard to get into rn programs these days. i don't want to stick around and wait several years just for a slot to open up.

as for moving to oregon, i work for an insurance company in portland, which is sort of similar to healthcare work, imo. pm me if you want information about places to look for work in portland.
 
TheSecret said:
You know, a lot of premeds have this "med school or bust" mentality. There are, however, a variety of other career options that requires a similar undergraduate preparation that so many people overlook.

1) Podiatry - this field is really hurting for qualified candidates right now, and your stats would put you in prime position for a spot in podiatry school. In most states, this would give you the ability to handle both medical and surgical treatment of the foot and ankle. It really is a parallel path to allopathic schools, and the clinical rotations are often alongside the MD students.

2) Chiropractic - I have found chiropractors to be some of the happiest people I've ever met with their careers. It's a way to own your own business, provide health care and wellness support to people, and maintain a good lifestyle.

3) Optometry - the first line of defense with vision care - most people don't ever see an opthamologist anymore. Optometrists identify disease, treat infections, and do a lot more that people don't ever think of.

4) Pharmacy - if you're really interested in making a lot of money, this is the way to go. DPharms have been pulling in the cash, and the trend does not look like it's going away anytime soon. This route may have more prereqs, though - I'm not fully aware of the requirements.

All of this is in addition to dentistry, osteopathy, and the foreign school options. There are tons of options if your desire is to treat patients. Ask yourself why you really wanted to go to med school in the first place, and your answer about what you should be doing probably lies there.

And if you decide on the MPH route, there are some schools (I believe Northwestern is one of them, but don't quote me on that) that will take MCATs in lieu of GREs.


great post! I'd like to add that podiatry schools will take your mcat scores, so you would not need to retake another standardized test.
 
medworm said:
Hey, Bob Dole lost the presidential election, and although he's probably perfectly qualified, he's not running again b/c he's too old. Know what I mean?

I'm 39 applying MD/PhD this year so naw, I don't know what you mean! ;)
 
I'm in school for audiology (1st year AuD at Vanderbilt) so I can answer any questions you have about the field and or schools. As for variety in the job from day to day ... it really depends where you work. There is always variety because each patient is going to be different , but of course you could get a job where you fit hearing aids and thats all you do. (Which I would hate by the way). Audiology has a lot more to offer than that though ex. cochlear implant programming, intraoperative monitoring, vestibular testing which are also very interesting. As for the taking the GRE it is not too hard. I took a class at Kaplan which didn't help at all so I wouldn't suggest that. What was actually very useful was the study guides by princeton review and the one by ETS. The math is the same as is on the SAT, its only the verbal that is different.
 
foil said:
Good plan B
Nurse Anesthetist,

About $140,000 / year

Hi there,
Four years to BSN plus some critical care experience (1 to 2 years) then masters-level CRNA program. That's close to eight additional years. Fine if you like nursing but MBA/MPH is a better choice for someone with healthcare management aspirations.

njbmd :)
 
medworm said:
Here we go again :) -- this is a serious proposition and I really could use some solid advice. :confused: I'm not speculating on how best to tackle my med school apps or chart my premed strategy, I've got that down with SDN forums thank you!. But I could use suggestions for the longer career horizon.

Here's my story:

I'm in my late 20s, female, unmarried, career changer, started my prereqs last Fall, applying for 2006 so I rushed to take the April MCAT (did ok with 9s on every section), and done with secondaries. Retook in August, didn't break 30, VR 8, PS 10, BS 10 (28R). I was surprised that my VR was so low, but can't do anything about it now. I applied w/ April scores but no interviews yet. I am absolutely not going to retake the MCAT. I feel that I've expended enough energy towards the whole process and don't want to hold off life to be a reapplicant. With such low scores, 3.5 GPA, and mediocre CV of just volunteering and work experience, I need to devise a plan B that is also viable long-term solution. I'm currently unemployed, and having trouble landing a job b/c of this glide year hiatus. Although I have solid work experience in business development and project management, healthcare companies aren't interested in me b/c of the prospect of leaving for med school (a long shot if you ask me) and that my prior exp. is unrelated to healthcare. I totally understand where the employer's coming from, b/c I've been a boss before. Even if I do land a f/t job in healthcare, it would be entry-level (lower salary) and will set my career back.

So #1: I can more easily land a non-healthcare position. Should I concentrate my job-seeking efforts towards that or the entry-level healthcare position? How much should I compromise, salary-wise and responsibility wise? #2: If med school doesn't pan out, I still need to get a Masters degree for the long-term. This will be my last degree, I won't try to switch back to medicine. MPH is a good alternative. With that, I could find mgmt work in healthcare, and that would be the end of story. The question: is an MPH enough to secure a viable career path involving management, where I can make $100K in 3-5 years? Or do I need other accreditation as well? What kind of jobs can I get with other Masters degrees, i.e. MSc and DSc? I don't know of the options, please advise.

Ok, back to the MPH. I would need to take the GRE asap to apply for MPH schools for 2006. #3: Is 2 months enough time to study for the GRE? (All this standardized testing and application process is exhausting.) I'm not sure how to obtain LORs or even what my statement of intent would be, but I have about 2 months before apps are due. Any advice on how to tackle MPH application would be appreciated. Also, if med school falls through this year, I would like to relocate next year to either Washington state, Oregon, or Georgia to settle down, buy a house, move on with my life -- any advice on the MPH school and job options in those areas would be great!

Thanks for listening and playing guidance counselor! :)

I'm also in my late 20's, unmarried and I'd gotten about the same score on my MCATs back in college, but this year bit the bullet, took the kaplan course and had no life from Jan-April while I studied for school. It's possible to go up (I got a 31 this time) though your score doesn't put you out of the running. I was a drug rep for 2.5 years and made very good money, but it reminded me every day why I wanted to be a doctor. I joined the Air Force and have been in for 1.5 yrs now, applied for 2006 and got accepted to USUHS. I have a REALLY long commitment but love the military and even though I'm older I'm excited!

I think even if you have a non-medical job, do a lot of volunteering (I've volunteered at various free clinics for a few years), become an EMT or paramedic and run with a squad, shadow some doctors and there are many other opportunities.

A lot of D.O. schools have lower MCAT averages, I don't know how many you applied to, but that's an option as well.

It can be a harder field to get into, but if you want more info on pharmaceutical sales PM me.
 
I'd suggest genetic counselling or social work but neither are hardxdollar$core.
 
Things are looking up a bit -- got one interview coming up and awaiting forever for others. Need lots of :luck:

Still if medicine falls through, I'd be perfectly happy to go back to civilian life, which is like ROLAIDS for the stress of medicine! Whew!

Oh, btw -- I'm leaning towards a part-time MPH for the back-up plan.

Thanks for everyone's input. ;)
 
One of the things you really have to ask yourself is do you really want ot be a doctor or will you truly be happy with some of these other options? Premeds are not lemmings. They jump through the hoops because that is what it takes to get to med school whihc is what you have to do to be an MD.

If the awnser is yes, then you need to do whatever it takes to make your application as strong as possible.
 
another plan b: industrial hygiene. my SO and I worked that for awhile. you make 70 g's to start. need a masters to take the IH test or 5 years or so experience...and yr science background will help. no patients tho.
 
No one has mentioned the possibility of getting a Masters in Health Care Administration. I know the University of Washington in Seattle has this program, I'm not sure about which other schools. You can do it part time in 2 years while working another job to support yourself.
 
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