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[Qtip96]

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hi neonateMD. i thought i could interest you in an article from today's New York Times. it's a conversation with Nobel laureate, Christine Nusslein-Volhard. the article is titled , "Solving a Mystery of Life, Then Tackling a Real-Life Problem."

"In the 1980's, she and Eric F. Wieschaus solved one of the central mysteries of life: how the genes in a fertilized egg direct the formation of an embryo. For their discovery, Dr. Nüsslein-Volhard, Dr. Wieschaus and Edward B. Lewis received the 1995 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. Dr. Nüsslein-Volhard was just the 10th woman to win a Nobel Prize in one of the sciences. Now 63, she directs the Max Planck Institute for Developmental Biology in Tübingen, Germany. In her off-hours, she works to improve the status of women in science..."

"I am often asked why there is discrimination against women in science. And I have given it some thought. With prejudicial attitudes, you can't really do much. You can point out when people discriminate and ask them not to...

In... science, we have a special problem. We lose talented women at the time they get pregnant. Some of it occurs because they are encouraged — by their husbands, bosses and the government — to take long maternity leaves...Many stop their research for two or three years. Later, these young women find it difficult to get back. They drop out."

"Q. Did you experience gender bias when you were a student?

A. ...when I finished my doctoral thesis, it was published and I was only listed as the second author. The boss at the laboratory where I worked said: "Let this man be first author. He started the project and has family, and he needs his career." I had done almost all the work. And yet, I agreed! I could still foam: I get so angry about it."

all of us can frame your interaction with your BF in any number of ways. the bottom line is that it's GENDER BIAS. why would these guys have problems with women doing more? why does gender make a difference? these questions have as much relevance with women of modest goals as with a nobel laureate. 😉

 

[ralf]

hi neonateMD. all of us can frame your interaction with your BF in any number of ways. the bottom line is that it's GENDER BIAS. why would these guys have problems with women doing more? why does gender make a difference? these questions have as much relevance with women of modest goals as with a nobel laureate. 😉

👍

 

[LADoc00]

hi neonateMD. i thought i could interest you in an article from today's New York Times. it's a conversation with Nobel laureate, Christine Nusslein-Volhard. the article is titled , "Solving a Mystery of Life, Then Tackling a Real-Life Problem."

"In the 1980's, she and Eric F. Wieschaus solved one of the central mysteries of life: how the genes in a fertilized egg direct the formation of an embryo. For their discovery, Dr. Nüsslein-Volhard, Dr. Wieschaus and Edward B. Lewis received the 1995 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine. Dr. Nüsslein-Volhard was just the 10th woman to win a Nobel Prize in one of the sciences. Now 63, she directs the Max Planck Institute for Developmental Biology in Tübingen, Germany. In her off-hours, she works to improve the status of women in science..."

"I am often asked why there is discrimination against women in science. And I have given it some thought. With prejudicial attitudes, you can't really do much. You can point out when people discriminate and ask them not to...

In... science, we have a special problem. We lose talented women at the time they get pregnant. Some of it occurs because they are encouraged — by their husbands, bosses and the government — to take long maternity leaves...Many stop their research for two or three years. Later, these young women find it difficult to get back. They drop out."

"Q. Did you experience gender bias when you were a student?

A. ...when I finished my doctoral thesis, it was published and I was only listed as the second author. The boss at the laboratory where I worked said: "Let this man be first author. He started the project and has family, and he needs his career." I had done almost all the work. And yet, I agreed! I could still foam: I get so angry about it."

all of us can frame your interaction with your BF in any number of ways. the bottom line is that it's GENDER BIAS. why would these guys have problems with women doing more? why does gender make a difference? these questions have as much relevance with women of modest goals as with a nobel laureate. 😉

Wow, suprised you took a long enough break from your homoerotic ad hominum posting to type all that! Grats. You win.

 

[ralf]

👍

Whoever makes the most money needs to be very cautious to never use it as a weapon. I've been in the position of being a working wife who made less money and it hurt my feelings, my pride and our relationship when my husband treated my job and wishes as dispensable simply because I brought home less bacon. Now that the shoe is on the other foot I try very hard to make sure that he knows I value his input and that he has equal say in how our family's paycheck is spent.

 

[Qtip96]

Wow, suprised you took a long enough break from your homoerotic ad hominum posting to type all that! Grats. You win.

this little exchange reminds me of a quote:

"Why can't they have gay people in the army? Personally, I think they are just afraid of a thousand guys with M16s going, "Who'd you call a fa*got?"" Jon Stewart

in all honesty, i don't understand your predilection for gay attacks, nor your neurosis when it's redirected at you. makes me think, "why is LADoc getting his panties in a wad?"

PS. i'd buy you a drink, but you're not gettin' lucky. i'm not into ugly guys who think they've got "personality".

PPS. you could learn how to spell. that's 'ad hominem' you dope. 😉

 

[LADoc00]

this little exchange reminds me of a quote:
😉

Your response reminds me of a joke:

This guy walks into a bar and two steps in, he realizes it's a gay bar but says, "What the heck, I really want a drink". When the gay waiter approaches and says to the customer "What's the name of your penis?". The customer says, "Look, I'm just not into that. All I want is a drink". The gay waiter says, "I'm sorry but I can't serve you until you tell me the name of your penis." So the customer says, "All right, what's the name of your penis?". The gay waiter says, "NIKE ... you know, JUST DO IT". The customer thinks for a moment and says, "The name of my penis is Secret". The waiter says, "SECRET?". The customer says, "Yeah ... STRONG ENOUGH FOR A MAN BUT MADE FOR A WOMAN!".

 

[Qtip96]

the issue of how men treat academically motivated women is very much apropos...

here is another article from today's NY Times.
"At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust."

" Department of Education statistics show that men, whatever their race or socioeconomic group, are less likely than women to get bachelor's degrees — and among those who do, fewer complete their degrees in four or five years. Men also get worse grades than women.

And in two national studies, college men reported that they studied less... than their female classmates.

Small wonder, then, that at elite institutions like Harvard, small liberal arts colleges like Dickinson, huge public universities like the University of Wisconsin and U.C.L.A. and smaller ones like Florida Atlantic University, women are walking off with a disproportionate share of the honors degrees.

It is not that men are in a downward spiral: they are going to college in greater numbers and are more likely to graduate than two decades ago.

Still, men now make up only 42 percent of the nation's college students. And with sex discrimination fading and their job opportunities widening, women are coming on much stronger, often leapfrogging the men to the academic finish."
7/9/2006

data from the Department of Education...

it doesn't matter what you guys think. women are going to achieve more and more as time goes on, and guys will have to deal . it's not feminazi bull. it is simply a FACT!!! 😀

 

[bananaface]

I have a dilemma... My boyfriend and I are both graduating from undergrad next year, and i am going to medical school after graduation. We have been together for 4 years, and have always talked about getting married one day. Now he is saying that he's had thoughts of breaking up with me beacuse he feels like he is holding me back. He said that he doesn't know if he can handle the fact that I will be making more money than him after becoming a MD. I really think it has more to do with the fact that he doesn't know what he is going to do after graduation, and his family laughs at the fact that he may become "a doctor's husband." So my question is, are there any men who would be uncomfortable with their wife making more than them? Or are there any that are actually in that situation that can give me advice on how to get it through to my bf that money doesn't matter?

My mom made more than my dad when I was growing up. He was a janitor and she was a kindergarten teacher. I remember having a conversation about it with him a long time ago. He said it didn't really bother him because we as a family didn't have money problems and because my mom never really brought it up. So, it was never shoved in his face by anyone and he never felt like he was letting anyone down.

IMO, it's not cool for his family to pick on him, especially since it bothers him enough to make him feel insecure about your relationship.

It's hard to say exactly how to make him feel comfortable about the potential income gap. Keeping people from hassling him about it is probably a good first step. Maybe he will feel more secure after he finds his own path. One nice thing about the extra income is that it will allow him the opportunity to pursue whatever path he wants without having to worry about doing some crap job to make ends meet.

 

[66Lenses]

are there any men who would be uncomfortable with their wife making more than them? Or are there any that are actually in that situation that can give me advice on how to get it through to my bf that money doesn't matter?

I think a lot of men are hung up on the idea of not being the "breadwinner" until they marry a woman making enough for them to retire 😛

He's not worried about holding you back, he's worried how he's going to look standing next to you.

This is not something you need to change about yourself, do not let his insecurities keep you from doing what you've worked so hard to do. He needs to motivate himself and find his passion, killing yours isn't going to gain him any lead and it'll only make you resent him down the line.

It's not your place to "make" him understand money doesn't matter because to him it does. Be compassionate, try to stand behind ideas he's interested in persuing, but ultimately it's him who has to realize the situation and determine if he can live with the future, whatever it may be.

 

[Sweenracer]

My wife is a 2nd year Resident and will undoubtedly make more money than my Engineer self when she is a true Hemotologist after 2 more years of residency, 1 chief year, and then 3 years of fellowship... But for past 5 years and next 6 years... I was/am/will-be the primary bread-winner. I am secure in the fact that she will one day probably double my salary... especially since I have worked so hard trying to support her medical education. I feel like I will deserve a vacation and a new car at that point because I will have earned it too. And she deserves it too. But soooooo far off... Looking forward to paying off those loans!!!

 

[OzDDS]

the issue of how men treat academically motivated women is very much apropos...

here is another article from today's NY Times.
"At Colleges, Women Are Leaving Men in the Dust."

" Department of Education statistics show that men, whatever their race or socioeconomic group, are less likely than women to get bachelor's degrees — and among those who do, fewer complete their degrees in four or five years. Men also get worse grades than women.

And in two national studies, college men reported that they studied less... than their female classmates.

Small wonder, then, that at elite institutions like Harvard, small liberal arts colleges like Dickinson, huge public universities like the University of Wisconsin and U.C.L.A. and smaller ones like Florida Atlantic University, women are walking off with a disproportionate share of the honors degrees.

It is not that men are in a downward spiral: they are going to college in greater numbers and are more likely to graduate than two decades ago.

Still, men now make up only 42 percent of the nation's college students. And with sex discrimination fading and their job opportunities widening, women are coming on much stronger, often leapfrogging the men to the academic finish."
7/9/2006

data from the Department of Education...

it doesn't matter what you guys think. women are going to achieve more and more as time goes on, and guys will have to deal . it's not feminazi bull. it is simply a FACT!!! 😀

Maybe after the 60s they tried to correct the problem by helping young girls get ahead. But now they have gone too far in that direction and are actually not taking into consideration that boys and girls are different and they are leaving the boys behind now from a very early age. What do you think about these articles?

Click here

Click here

And here

... and here

interesting

 

[GwinnettPreMed]

To the OP: ridiculous opinions and "research" about "the horrors of being (female/male)" aside... I think you've reassured your b/f that it isn't that big of a deal to you, which is a good first step.

You might mention that if he's really hung up on being the provider, in a sense he can do it: if he busts his butt during the remainder of his twenties/early thirties to earn a relatively high income and invests 25% of that income in 401(k)/IRA/529s/house, he will have provided retirement/education security (I am assuming he's still in his early twenties). That is the most important thing a person can do for her/his family, and it would be harder for you to do starting in your late thirties after paying off loans. This would have the added benefit of helping him figure out what he wants to do with his life - a few years in a high-pressure career is an excellent clarifying agent.

Another thing you might bring up: if you want kids together, your being the breadwinner could enable him to stay home and raise his kids. That is an opportunity that few husbands have been provided historically, and in our parents' and grandparents' generations, there are a lot of regretful men who wish they had spent more time with their children. He can avoid that.

Lastly, make sure you go into this with the understanding that you'll have to consider two people's needs when it comes to how "your" money is spent in the marriage. Being the breadwinner can breed resentment, and it'll become very easy to say to yourself "why do I have to be the 'man' in this relationship and earn 'all' the money?" after a few years of 80-hour weeks. You need to be sure that you care enough about this relationship to make a committment to fight that attitude.

You seem to care a lot about your relationship. I hope it works out well for both of you - good luck!

 

[mtDNA]

Here is the biggest problem that I can foresee with this situation. If the guy makes less money than his wife and feels insecure about it, then that is a tough thing. However, the problem can only be worse when the difference in income/prestige is HUGE. The examples on this board of guys who made less than their wives are definitely legit, but the thing is, these responses are coming form successful guys, who just happen to have more successful wives (one guy was an engineer, another a doctor, etc.). The guy that the OP is involved with apparently has no idea what he wants to do, and has finished college. This could end up being a really big difference between prestige/money earned by each of them. How many female doctors do you know who are married to pizza delivery boys or something like that? It would be a recipe for disaster in my opinion...