NEED realistic advice on moving forward.

[CKERAMA]

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Greetings everyone,

I wanted to post on the medical student forum to get advice from those who have already made it through the application process.

I am a Biological Sciences Major at Clemson University with a Minor in Psychology.

As of right now my grades from freshman year are really pulling me down. I lost a close friend in a car accident and my girlfriend and I of 3 years broke up. Safe to say I was in a dark place and school was not my priority. After that summer I really took the time to reevaluate my choices and refocus on school. My GPA's are as follows from freshman year until my second semester sophomore year

2.7, 3.2, 3.65, 3.82.

As you can see as my classes have gotten harder my grades have gone up substantially. I currently sit at a 3.44 when you factor in my number of institution credits vs transfer credits etc etc. This is my first semester junior year and by far my hardest academically. I am sitting fairly close to either making a 3.75 or a 3.56 depending on whether or not I make an A on my physics final later today.

Obviously I know my GPA is not where it needs to be, I am also set to graduate a semester early. Realistically, if I stick to this timeline and not pick up another minor/major I am going to graduate with between a 3.5 and 3.6

Moving Forward: What should be my plan to optimize my medical school application? I was thinking about either picking up another minor, picking up a second major (if so in what?), or completing a master's program, or just go ahead and graduate, try to get a job in something medical related (scribing, CDC, a lab) for a year or two and then reapplying.

My Extracurriculars: I feel as though this is one field I am moderately strong in. I shadowed my freshman year summer at a fertility institute. Sophomore summer I went on a medical mission trip to Panama where I worked in clinics both in the jungle and slums for 3 weeks. I am currently the lead undergraduate researcher on a fairly exciting autism project here at Clemson. I lead a team of 3-4 undergrads and I work directly with the Dr. in charge of the study. Furthermore, I am in a fraternity here where I have served a term as both Alumni Relations Chair, and another as Risk manager. I am no stranger to a leadership roles and I hope this may help me stand out a little bit. I also have gotten to know several doctors and professors on a personal level and can get about 3-5 really strong recommendation letters.

I plan on taking the MCAT in March

Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

[alveron_]

The first thing I would say is to take a deep breath, you definitely can become a doctor.

What you choose to do depends on whether you are planning on applying to MD or DO. For DO, if you stay on your predicted timeline and continue raising your GPA with the same trend, you will do fine. Landing a solid MCAT score will make your odds of acceptance that much better. Just make sure to spend some time shadowing a DO physician and getting some hours observing in primary care.

For MD, my advice is going to be a bit different. A 3.5-3.6 is not stellar, but it does not preclude you from acceptance at low-tier schools. Many schools reward reinvention, and by giving yourself 5-6 semesters of solid grades after your freshman year you demonstrate a clear upward trend. I would only recommend adding another major/minor if you can hold good grades while taking more credit hours. The number of your GPA matters much, much more than how many majors and minors you have. If you are thinking about adding a minor, I would suggest one that requires upper-level science classes so that you can continue to raise your sGPA. I wouldn't graduate early unless you have financial reasons for doing so. Graduating on-time to allow yourself to take enough classes to continue to pull your GPA up is in your best interest.

For what it's worth, my academic rock-bottom was second semester sophomore year but with a lot of hard work and and a solid MCAT I managed to get an II at my top choice. You will do fine, OP. Good luck!

 

[CKERAMA]

The first thing I would say is to take a deep breath, you definitely can become a doctor.

What you choose to do depends on whether you are planning on applying to MD or DO. For DO, if you stay on your predicted timeline and continue raising your GPA with the same trend, you will do fine. Landing a solid MCAT score will make your odds of acceptance that much better. Just make sure to spend some time shadowing a DO physician and getting some hours observing in primary care.

For MD, my advice is going to be a bit different. A 3.5-3.6 is not stellar, but it does not preclude you from acceptance at low-tier schools. Many schools reward reinvention, and by giving yourself 5-6 semesters of solid grades after your freshman year you demonstrate a clear upward trend. I would only recommend adding another major/minor if you can hold good grades while taking more credit hours. The number of your GPA matters much, much more than how many majors and minors you have. If you are thinking about adding a minor, I would suggest one that requires upper-level science classes so that you can continue to raise your sGPA. I wouldn't graduate early unless you have financial reasons for doing so. Graduating on-time to allow yourself to take enough classes to continue to pull your GPA up is in your best interest.

For what it's worth, my academic rock-bottom was second semester sophomore year but with a lot of hard work and and a solid MCAT I managed to get an II at my top choice. You will do fine, OP. Good luck!

What exactly are the consequences of attending a "low-tier" school? I hear this terminology frequently and was wondering if you would be able to perhaps give a couple of examples. I certainly do not wish to scrape by in the career/struggle to obtain a solid residency post med school. I am also pretty set on pursuing an MD as opposed to a DO. If I wish to attend medical school back home in Texas, what would my best options be?

Thanks!

 

[alveron_]

What exactly are the consequences of attending a "low-tier" school? I hear this terminology frequently and was wondering if you would be able to perhaps give a couple of examples. I certainly do not wish to scrape by in the career/struggle to obtain a solid residency post med school. I am also pretty set on pursuing an MD as opposed to a DO. If I wish to attend medical school back home in Texas, what would my best options be?

Thanks!

I'm not the most well-versed person about the differences between med schools, but what I know about the tier system comes from the applicant rating system (ARS) developed by @WedgeDawg. From what I understand, the "tier" of the school refers to a combination of the average LizzyM scores of matriculants as well as how selective the school is. WedgeDawg has a great post about the ARS that you can look up for more info. Some low-tier schools are USF-Morsani, Wayne State, Creighton, Oakland, SLU, Cincinnati, Indiana, Miami, Iowa, MC Wisconsin, Toledo, SUNY Downstate, Stony Brook, VCU, Western MI, EVMS, Vermont, WVU, Wisconsin, Quinnipiac, Wake Forest, and Maryland.

My state school is a low-tier, and I know that I won't have any problems landing a career if I were to graduate from that school. Certainly high tier schools have more options for research, academic medicine, etc., but that doesn't mean that mid- and low-tier schools don't have any opportunities. There's a lot of factors that go into residency placement and future careers outside of the school that you graduate from.

Texas schools have their own independent application, so I can't give advice about how to apply to Texas schools/which schools to apply to. Just make sure that you clarify whether or not you are IS because you went to undergrad outside of Texas. Being IS vs. OOS definitely will make a difference on you chances of acceptance.

 

[arcus]

What exactly are the consequences of attending a "low-tier" school? !

When you graduate you get to be called Doctor.

A GPA of 3.6 is fine considering the any number of MD schools. Your MCAT score needs to be better than competitive to your peers. They are your competiton

As for the whole “tier” thing, ignore such comments on here. If being a Doctor is your vocation, then if a LCME medical school exists if it has names such as University of Pascagoula, Yee Haw College of Medicine or Piggly Wiggly Medical School will do. Harvard would be nice but dont knock Mississippi if no other medical school will even look at you

Getting into medical school in the USA is done by few people.

gopher it

good luck

 

[21Rush12]

First off, that’s not how the medical student forum works. It’s for students to post, not to be interrogated.

Second, I have personally been through this and the best thing I did for myself was to get the best grades I could and build extracurriculars around that. Focus on your MCAT as well and DO NOT RUSH INTO THIS. You need to have the best possible application when you apply. That means being realistic about your school list, having it proofread (we have a forum for that! It’s a big help) and making sure that your personal statement and activities sections of the application are just about perfect. Apply early too, preferably by the end of June. “Deadlines for submission” are a joke, don’t let any advisor tell you differently.

Thirdly, tier of school is irrelevant to you — you either want to go to medical school or you don’t. I’m at a low tier school that routinely matches people to excellent competitive residencies every single year. The school provides the tools but the student does the work.

If there’s anything I can help you with, especially regarding the challenges of overcoming a bad start, feel free to send me a PM! Good luck to you!

 

[Goro]

What exactly are the consequences of attending a "low-tier" school? I hear this terminology frequently and was wondering if you would be able to perhaps give a couple of examples. I certainly do not wish to scrape by in the career/struggle to obtain a solid residency post med school. I am also pretty set on pursuing an MD as opposed to a DO. If I wish to attend medical school back home in Texas, what would my best options be?

Thanks!

Beggars can't be choosy. All DO schools reward reinvention, while some MD schools do.

You need more patient contact experience. Med schools look down upon medical missions and view them as medical tourism. Also, add non-clinical service to others, especially those less well off than you.

Chances will be best with TX schools. Very few Texans go to MD schools outside the state. They tend to be superstars.

 

[CKERAMA]

Beggars can't be choosy. All DO schools reward reinvention, while some MD schools do.

You need more patient contact experience. Med schools look down upon medical missions and view them as medical tourism. Also, add non-clinical service to others, especially those less well off than you.

Chances will be best with TX schools. Very few Texans go to MD schools outside the state. They tend to be superstars.

What are the best ways to get this patient contact? With so many stringent regulations in the states its difficult to find programs that allow such contact. Because of this, I have been told that it is much more accessible to travel outside of the U.S, which is why I went to Panama. If you mind me asking, what avenues did you choose to gain this experience, and what are the best ways to follow that path as well?

 

[Goro]

What are the best ways to get this patient contact? With so many stringent regulations in the states its difficult to find programs that allow such contact. Because of this, I have been told that it is much more accessible to travel outside of the U.S, which is why I went to Panama. If you mind me asking, what avenues did you choose to gain this experience, and what are the best ways to follow that path as well?

Not all volunteering needs to be in a hospital. Think hospice, Planned Parenthood, nursing homes, rehab facilities, crisis hotlines, camps for sick children, or clinics.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.


Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

 

[candbgirl]

What are the best ways to get this patient contact? With so many stringent regulations in the states its difficult to find programs that allow such contact. Because of this, I have been told that it is much more accessible to travel outside of the U.S, which is why I went to Panama. If you mind me asking, what avenues did you choose to gain this experience, and what are the best ways to follow that path as well?

Every applicant has this experience. Did someone tell you it’s hard to get this experience and you just didn’t bother trying? Or did you just want to go to Panama? Many ADCOMS consider your trip to Panama as voluntourism and they don’t look positively on it!

I see you just joined today. Spend some time reading posts and get a feel for the forums. Many of your questions have been asked and answered. It might save you time to use the search function.

Oh and @Goro is a a faculty member and an ADCOM member at a DO school. He knows what he is talking about so be wise and at least listen.

Good luck!

 

[gyngyn]

What are the best ways to get this patient contact? With so many stringent regulations in the states its difficult to find programs that allow such contact. Because of this, I have been told that it is much more accessible to travel outside of the U.S, which is why I went to Panama. If you mind me asking, what avenues did you choose to gain this experience, and what are the best ways to follow that path as well?

This is not what we are looking for. We are looking for domestic experience.
See @Goro's post for some ideas.

 

[gyngyn]

I was thinking about either picking up another minor, picking up a second major (if so in what?), or completing a master's program, or just go ahead and graduate, try to get a job in something medical related (scribing, CDC, a lab) for a year or two and then reapplying.

Minors and majors do not matter. If there is a technical reason for you to add them, it is fine, though.
Grades from Master's programs do not remediate undergraduate performance. SMP's can be an exception.

 

[arcus]

What are the best ways to get this patient contact?

How is your sense of smell? You got to want to smell like the sheep. The smell is everywhere. You didnt need to go to Panama.

Outside our front door, they are there. Be creative. Donning a volunteer smock at the local hospital might work. Consider finding your local rural medical bus run by a hospital, church or medical organization. Hop on that bus. The physicians and nurses on that bus who serve the smelly sheep would love to see you.

Wool never looked so good!

 

[CKERAMA]

Every applicant has this experience. Did someone tell you it’s hard to get this experience and you just didn’t bother trying? Or did you just want to go to Panama? Many ADCOMS consider your trip to Panama as voluntourism and they don’t look positively on it!

I see you just joined today. Spend some time reading posts and get a feel for the forums. Many of your questions have been asked and answered. It might save you time to use the search function.

Oh and @Goro is a a faculty member and an ADCOM member at a DO school. He knows what he is talking about so be wise and at least listen.

Good luck!

To be honest "experience" is typically laid out as shadowing. I have been told by both counselors, practicing physicians, etc, that it is getting very difficult to find shadowing opportunities. I have shadowed in the past, however I chose to go to Panama this recent summer because I thought it was a positive experience which allows for more hands on interaction. This only being my third summer in college I am applying for several shadowing "programs" ran through medical schools, however, these programs are extremely competitive and few and far between. This is why I was asking specifically for other opportunities, in an effort to broaden my options. I have spent a fair amount of time reading these forums in the past, I created an account in order to gain more specific insight to my situation, and interact with those who have had similar experiences/gone through the application process. I appreciate Goro's insight greatly, as I had not considered such volunteering as a both a means to enrich the lives of others, my own, and my medical school application simultaneously.

With all the negative feedback on the Panama trip, would you suggest to not even include it in an application? It certainly did not feel like tourism, but I do understand the paradigm that these trips are not particularly helpful for the local communities. That being said, the trip I attended held medication drives, fundraisers, etc in order to provide tangible aid to the communities we attended to. We also worked with local doctors and did a fair amount of interview-taking/ spreading the word through house visits. I certainly left with the belief that we made some impact. If it all because of the fact that we simply helped run the free clinics the local doctors were working in. The public health system over there requires doctor referrals to see specialists, and the process to do so can be very lengthy. We saw some pretty serious things (late-stage syphilis, domestic abuse, psychosomatic symptoms resulting from an exceptionally brutal miscarriage that occurred during a physician's strike resulting in a particularly severe infection), that made helped me cement the idea that being a physician involves a lot more than helping to heal the body, but also involves a great deal in helping to heal the mind. Some people just needed someone to talk to.

All in all I found it to be a profound experience, however, I was not shocked by what I saw by any means. I am aware there are many communities in the U.S that have similar problems. Which brings us full circle. I was unsure how and had been discouraged in the past to seek out ways to volunteer stateside in such communities, which is why I was asking for specific options/ ideas.

I apologize for the long read. and thank you for any advice.

 

[CKERAMA]

I would also like to take a moment and thank everyone who has replied to this thread. I am of course a fledgling student with much to learn. The insight thus far has been substantial, eye-opening, and helpful.

 

[Gorne]

Your GPA can be salvaged with a post-bac masters program. Above a 3.7 will be needed and will make the first two years of med school much easier if you're taking medical or medicine-esque courses like biochem, physio, etc.

Slow your roll and realize you won't be applying straigiht out of college, focus on doing well on your remaining coursework. I would take the MCAT after your senior year and you need to rock it. Do a 1 year post-bac, and work in somehealthcare related field while you apply. Enjoy your acceptance.

This is coming from someone who was in your same boat just a lower GPA. M3 now.

 

[21Rush12]

Also — you keep saying “I’ve been told”, but have you actually looked? I have never had a problem getting shadowing. Start simple and ask your family doctor. Send a few cold emails. Be kind, personable, and gracious.

By the way, shadowing is exposure, not experience. Experience isn’t shadowing, its getting your hands dirty and applying your effort to help someone else. All of these things are needed in their own ways. Your trip to Panama is admirable and I would not neglect it; just make sure it is supplemented with enough experience here to show your devotion to the field.

 

[arcus]

Experience isn’t shadowing, its getting your hands dirty and applying your effort to help someone else.

 

[deleted853360]

MUSC, USC-Greenville, and USC-Columbia are still options. MUSC adds extra gpa points in for in-state applicants if I’m remembering correctly from a pre-med conference I attended there. The MCAT will be your biggest factor. Since USC-Greenville is new, they might be more lenient with this stuff as well. Also I’m not an expert but this is what I’ve seen as a current SC undergrad from people I’ve known to get accepted to our in-state med schools. Also to add, several MUSC doctors love medical mission trips from what they’ve told us.